Ok guys need some help. I am looking to convert my motor cycle tail light to Led. I have built a few led circuits for a single circuit, but I have never built a circuit like this. I am working with a 2x4 board and want to use super flex leds like these.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-...6338a5#ht_1663wt_962
IF any one can help me design a circuit I would be so great full. Even if you can just forward me to a good sight to learn how to build this i would appreciate it.
I need it to do a running light and to be a brake light.
Thanks in advance for any help you guys can give. And I will keep adding to this as I build this. I am hoping in the end to have converted my bike over to all leds in the end. All ready ordered a new headlight to go h4 from my old sealed beam.

Heres a link someone shared with me a couple of weeks ago.

http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz

This will answer pretty much all your questions. Good luck, Working with the LED's is tedious as hell!!

Edit for more imfo. I'm trying to use some 3mm led's and they are not the brightest. Some of them are brighter then others, some hardly work at all. All LED's are not created equally. Also check ledshoppe.com I bought 200 3mm reds for $16 IIRC.

Lots to think about when running LED's. Viewing angle for one.

[This message has been edited by weloveour86se (edited 04-22-2012).]

LED Panels (make sure you get the correct voltage)..
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.h...=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

Radio Shack...Home Depot...Honk Kong. Oh and a 12volt DC power supply. You know one of those things you plug in for electronics? Cut the wire and make yourself a power supply. Unless you wanna run back and forth to your car for the next few days...



Edit for more advice...DO NOT let any potential crack heads see that micro torch. Your home would become a target!

[This message has been edited by weloveour86se (edited 04-22-2012).]

SuperMicroguy covers it all: resistors and leds, voltage drops, amperage, multiplexing, sequencing. Well done tutorials



and this

[This message has been edited by texasfiero (edited 04-22-2012).]

Car etc voltage is not very stable... 12-15v is normal.
Likely need more current control that just a dumb resistor.
search LED, LED tail lights
Check archive TOT to.
example See www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives...120111-6-065459.html

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

http://tinyurl.com/74vagh5

Has LED motorcycle taillights ready to install. Of course the "tedious fun" of doing it yourself is eliminated.

I have one that twist-locks right in:





EDIT: Resized smaller by request.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 04-26-2012).]

I understand a lot of the basic circutis and thanks for the links there all helping a lot. But how do u create two circuits to one led. so you get one brightness at running and a second brightness when brakes are applied. Thats where i get confused.
And no micro torch for me lol i love my hako station. and 15 amp 12v Cosel power supply

quote Originally posted by Tstang429: I understand a lot of the basic circutis and thanks for the links there all helping a lot. But how do u create two circuits to one led. so you get one brightness at running and a second brightness when brakes are applied. Thats where i get confused. And no micro torch for me lol i love my hako station. and 15 amp 12v Cosel power supply

I just upgraded the lights in my camping trailer and running and braking have separate circuits on the same assembly. LEDs are so small, compared to the bulbs, that multiple circuits can co-exist. The manufacturer assembled the led circuits on the circuit board and epoxied them before mounting. That eliminates failure due to moisture damage.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I have one that twist-locks right in:

Those are the same ones I have for the Fiero taillights. They work great.

Ok so I have ordered my leds. Going up to my surplus place some time this week to pick up my voltage regulators and resistors. Were looking at close to 70 leds. Have the diagram drawn up actually found a diagram for the exact circuit I need.
I also had a dead surround sound system laying around. Before I threw it out i popped it apart. I found a wonderfully large heat sink in it. I am going to cut it to fight in my housing behind my board. It will give me a place to mount the regulators and a large surface area for the heat to dissipate. Here is a picture of the heat sink i found.

Any insight or ideas feel free to post. I am going to document the whole build of tail light with my little helper I built sitting by keeping an eye on me.

There are two ways to "dim" an LED...

One is using a resistor as in the image below.
R1 = a high wattage resistor that will dissipate a lot of heat due to dimming the entire array.
This is not really a feasible solution due to the wattage requirement...
R2 is the current limiting resistor used for each array...
The two non LED diodes are circuit isolation to keep the brake/park light wires isolated.


The other, better solution is to use a PWM module. PWM means Pulse Width Modulation... It flashes the LEDs on/off at an extremely high rate of speed. These modules are adjustable. You turn the screw on a potentiometer and the LEDs dim accordingly.

The longer the PWM module is in the "off" part of the binary cycle, the dimmer the LEDs appear.
I use PWM on my Fiero tail lights for the LED arrays...
Here is a schematic showing how you would wire in your LED arrays.



You can buy a compact PWM module that will work for your purposes perfectly right here.

You really don't need a heatsink like that... Even cut down, it will take up too much room, and is just generally overkill.

[This message has been edited by Synthesis (edited 04-24-2012).]

Well that heatsink will serve as aluminum stock if I go with my design. But you threw a kink in my design I like that pulse with unit alot. Guess its time for some more reading. Thanks Man. I will get my gnome to do some research for me.

To give you an idea... 1156 LEDs powered off the predecessor to that PWM module I linked above...


The heat sinks on the regulators is enough to dissipate the heat from the regulators when powering that many LEDs... Seriously.. You don't need that heat sink unless you are using some seriously high powered LEDs (think Cree 1 Amp LEDs).

Synethis,
Funny thing is my father just built a 555 timer to operate a pneumatic solenoid operating doors on a halloween decoration. I kinda wish I had the diagram to just build a pulse width modulator to save a few bucks and keep my father occupied. These projects are what I am using to also help him quite smoking.
Edited because i didn't read your post fully.

[This message has been edited by Tstang429 (edited 04-24-2012).]

Yup. Adjust the pot and the brightness changes. I'll explain more about how this particular module works in the AM when I am on a PC again

Thanks Synthesis. Look forward to anything else your have to say.
That gnome I posted was my first learning of wiring leds. I used an adjustable resistor and adjusted it to the brightness I wanted. I love playing with circuits and learning more.

quote Originally posted by Tstang429: Synethis, Funny thing is my father just built a 555 timer to operate a pneumatic solenoid operating doors on a halloween decoration. I kinda wish I had the diagram to just build a pulse width modulator to save a few bucks and keep my father occupied. These projects are what I am using to also help him quite smoking. Edited because i didn't read your post fully.

Do you understand that LED's are non-linear devices? Potentiometers are irrelevant. With some LED's it is possible to increase the RMS voltage to improve the light output. Oddly enough, these circuits can be based on a 555 timer. Ubiquitous little oscillator, isn't it?

I do hope your father finds it within himself to stop smoking. Mine did, albeit too late in his life to really help.

Best to you, and yours.

Shyster yea I am learning as I go. Thats why I asked. I prefer to build over buying things whats that saying idle hands are the devils play ground.
As far as his smoking he just suffered his third heart attack hes only 50. Today he informed me its been 43 Days since his last smoke His brother who is also a smoker and lives with him now smokes outside and is to lazy so now he is smoking a third of what he used to smoke. I went over to clean my dads house and threw out all there ashtrays. I don't want to loose him so I am doing what ever it takes to keep him. Even taking him to his appointments if I have to.

Ok... I'm back.

The PWM modules listed above have two distinct features:
One: They both have dual inputs (triple if you count the one I use). One for park lamps, one for brake/turn depending on how you wire it up.
Two: They both use the Sharp 4 pin Voltage Regulator. Pins are: Input (voltage in from battery), Output (regulated output from VREG), Ground, and On/Off.
The regulator is ON whenever power is applied to it. Applying power to the On/Off pin shuts the regulator off.

The 555 timer circuit has an adjustable pot attached to it to allow setting the on/off cycle. This ties to the On/Off pin and causes the regulator to cycle on/off extremely fast.
The regulator can handle this, as this is what it was designed to do.

The Brake/Turn inputs bypass this entire timer circuit and uses diodes to isolate itself from the park lamps. When you hit the brakes or use the turn signal, the regulator comes on steady and applies fully regulated power to the LEDs.

The Sharp Regulator is rated for 2 amps with heatsink.

You can build your own PWM module with or without the Sharp Reg, and use a different reg in the process, it just requires some creative circuitry to do what you want.

I'd strongly suggest building your own array using Superflux LEDs from Philips and then just buying the PWM module I linked above.

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: Those are the same ones I have for the Fiero taillights. They work great.

I saw them online, its the equvlent of an 1157 right? But they say you need to add a box in line in order for them to blink as blinkers?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-25-2012).]

quote Originally posted by 2.5: I saw them online, its the equvlent of an 1157 right? But they say you need to add a box in line in order for them to blink as blinkers?

Modern vehicle control systems monitor the lights in the vehicle.
If a light burns out in a turn/brake, you get a check engine light, or at the very least, a rapid flashing turn signal to let you know.

Some systems require the use of a heavy resistor to simulate a load on the line equivalent to a bulb. These get hot and can fail, as they are usually a large ceramic block with wires, and not water proof.
Some systems require the use of an electronic module that communicates with the vehicle control module and tells it everything is fine.

quote Originally posted by Tstang429:

What's that "12V Strip" thingie in the left corner?

quote Originally posted by Synthesis: Some systems require the use of a heavy resistor to simulate a load on the line equivalent to a bulb. These get hot and can fail, as they are usually a large ceramic block with wires, and not water proof..

Thats what I mean, for a Fiero or "old" car, one can't just replace their bulbs with LED bulbs right? You have to get the resistor box?

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Thats what I mean, for a Fiero or "old" car, one can't just replace their bulbs with LED bulbs right? You have to get the resistor box?

No, older cars = no problem... Except for a thermal turn signal relay.
The relays have a bi-metal strip in them that heats up when electricity flows through it.
Provide power by engaging a turn signal, the wire heats up, breaking contact. Turn signal shuts off. Wire cools off, makes contact again, turn signal turns on.

This creates the clicking noise you hear.
Install LED lights, and you no longer have the same amount of electricity flowing. The turn signal slows down, or ceases to function entirely.
Switch to an electronic flasher which does not care about the load on the wire but instead has a timer in it for cycling the signal.

quote Originally posted by Synthesis: No, older cars = no problem... Except for a thermal turn signal relay. The relays have a bi-metal strip in them that heats up when electricity flows through it. Provide power by engaging a turn signal, the wire heats up, breaking contact. Turn signal shuts off. Wire cools off, makes contact again, turn signal turns on. This creates the clicking noise you hear. Install LED lights, and you no longer have the same amount of electricity flowing. The turn signal slows down, or ceases to function entirely. Switch to an electronic flasher which does not care about the load on the wire but instead has a timer in it for cycling the signal.

Electronic flasher /relay, this too is what I mean, you need this for led bulbs to work in a Fiero right? Just one oer one per bulb?

Just one for the turn signals. Flasher needs one also

The 12v box is a distribution center for the power supply. It has 8 switched banana jacks on it that are used to power devices, It was acutally for my rc cars you hook up multiple chargers to the 12v power supply. I used to run several classes and we ran several chargers at once. Its really easy to make and so much better that hooking up to the power terminals over and over.

To address The resistor for the turn signals everything synthesis said explains the turn signals. If you are doing this on a bike one other thing to watch is the warning lights. Some bikes actually have a light that tells you if the rear light is out. IF you have that you may need a resistor to show a larger load.

The issue with using resistors for LEDs is just what was stated a few posts back. LEDs are non-linear... Adding more resistance does not make them dimmer beyond a certain point.

You can't light a 2.6v LED with 1v. It just won't light. Resistors reduce voltage AND current. A small resistor in the LED array will limit the current flow to the LEDs preventing them from dying due to a cascade failure.

The larger the resistor, Ohm-wise, the more current/voltage is converted to heat. The larger the wattage of the resistor, the more current it can dissipate as heat.

So, using resistors to fix the warning bulbs may not always work. In some cases, the computer in the vehicle uses a databus to detect when a bulb is out.

If current doesn't flow on the wires, the computer triggers a warning light. If not enough flows, same thing.

[This message has been edited by Synthesis (edited 04-25-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Synthesis: Modern vehicle control systems monitor the lights in the vehicle. If a light burns out in a turn/brake, you get a check engine light, or at the very least, a rapid flashing turn signal to let you know. Some systems require the use of a heavy resistor to simulate a load on the line equivalent to a bulb. These get hot and can fail, as they are usually a large ceramic block with wires, and not water proof. Some systems require the use of an electronic module that communicates with the vehicle control module and tells it everything is fine.

Yes, Many car/truck BCM can trip a DTC and MIL if BCM thinks a bulb is blown. Newer Brake system, BCM and PCM can see each other codes. It is possible that a blown brake light can hurt engine performance in some of them.

LED install, Adding resistance will lie to BCM and the load hurts power saving plan... LEDs array amps + Power Resistor(s) amps = total amp draw. Total amp can be = to or more that the bulb(s) they replace.

Synthesis Since you bought one of those pwm do you have an email for him? He hasn't been on the board in over a week.

I do not. AZDave no longer makes them, and sold the rights to the guy in the thread I linked you to.
There is a link in that thread to their version of "The Mall".

Go there, make a post with your account, and see if any are available.

Ok still gathering parts. The pwm is the biggest issues. I can not get my hand on one and am currently looking for diagrams to build my own. Synethesis can you email a picture of the front and back of yours? Only if its accessible. My father feels he can reverse engineer as long as we can see the back of the board for its wiring. I did post on there for one and pmed both guys the orignal and the new guy. If anyone has a link to a site to build a pwm board feel free to post as well.

http://www.maxim-ic.com/app...es/index.mvp/id/4316

I believe they offer free samples or an eval board.

I got my board omg is this thing small. I had to dig out a jewlers screwdriver. With a waterproofing its going to fit behind in my tail light housing. Will post pics soon. Now to order some leds. Projects been a little slow as i am saving for the hot rod power tour.

quote Originally posted by Tstang429: I got my board omg is this thing small. I had to dig out a jewlers screwdriver. With a waterproofing its going to fit behind in my tail light housing. Will post pics soon. Now to order some leds. Projects been a little slow as i am saving for the hot rod power tour.

Which board?

The one I linked you to first or was there a different one?

The new version of the first one you linked me. The one from hidplanet.
Heres a pic for you its next to a bottle cap.

[This message has been edited by Tstang429 (edited 05-10-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Tstang429: The new version of the first one you linked me. The one from hidplanet. Heres a pic for you its next to a bottle cap.

Nice.. You'll like it.

THis here is the first setup. I am using a third brake light led conversion out of a mercedes benz. It has 18 leds. The one this is desgined if you try to use resistors on it to reduce voltage u get parts of the circuit dropping out. Here it is in use with the pwm board I purchased thanks to synetesis link.
http://s141.photobucket.com...urrent=VIDEO0010.mp4
May try this on the bike alone since it was free.