National Review is generally considered to be a haven for intellectual conservatives. John Derbyshire is a columnist for the magazine and a regular contributor to its much-read blog, The Corner. People were shocked when Derbyshire penned The Talk: Nonblack Version, a set of rules white people should tell their kids about African Americans. The rules are, needless to say, quite controversial:
The Talk: Nonblack Version
by John Derbyshire April 05, 2012
There is much talk about “the talk.”
“Sean O’Reilly was 16 when his mother gave him the talk that most black parents give their teenage sons,” Denisa R. Superville of the Hackensack (NJ) Record tells us. Meanwhile, down in Atlanta: “Her sons were 12 and 8 when Marlyn Tillman realized it was time for her to have the talk,” Gracie Bonds Staples writes in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.
Leonard Greene talks about the talk in the New York Post. Someone bylined as KJ Dell’Antonia talks about the talk in The New York Times. Darryl Owens talks about the talk in the Orlando Sentinel. Yes, talk about the talk is all over.
There is a talk that nonblack Americans have with their kids, too. My own kids, now 19 and 16, have had it in bits and pieces as subtopics have arisen. If I were to assemble it into a single talk, it would look something like the following.
(1) Among your fellow citizens are forty million who identify as black, and whom I shall refer to as black. The cumbersome (and MLK-noncompliant) term “African-American” seems to be in decline, thank goodness. “Colored” and “Negro” are archaisms. What you must call “the ‘N’ word” is used freely among blacks but is taboo to nonblacks.
(2) American blacks are descended from West African populations, with some white and aboriginal-American admixture. The overall average of non-African admixture is 20-25 percent. The admixture distribution is nonlinear, though: “It seems that around 10 percent of the African American population is more than half European in ancestry.” (Same link.)
(3) Your own ancestry is mixed north-European and northeast-Asian, but blacks will take you to be white.
(4) The default principle in everyday personal encounters is, that as a fellow citizen, with the same rights and obligations as yourself, any individual black is entitled to the same courtesies you would extend to a nonblack citizen. That is basic good manners and good citizenship. In some unusual circumstances, however—e.g., paragraph (10h) below—this default principle should be overridden by considerations of personal safety.
(5) As with any population of such a size, there is great variation among blacks in every human trait (except, obviously, the trait of identifying oneself as black). They come fat, thin, tall, short, dumb, smart, introverted, extroverted, honest, crooked, athletic, sedentary, fastidious, sloppy, amiable, and obnoxious. There are black geniuses and black morons. There are black saints and black psychopaths. In a population of forty million, you will find almost any human type. Only at the far, far extremes of certain traits are there absences. There are, for example, no black Fields Medal winners. While this is civilizationally consequential, it will not likely ever be important to you personally. Most people live and die without ever meeting (or wishing to meet) a Fields Medal winner.
(6) As you go through life, however, you will experience an ever larger number of encounters with black Americans. Assuming your encounters are random—for example, not restricted only to black convicted murderers or to black investment bankers—the Law of Large Numbers will inevitably kick in. You will observe that the means—the averages—of many traits are very different for black and white Americans, as has been confirmed by methodical inquiries in the human sciences.
(7) Of most importance to your personal safety are the very different means for antisocial behavior, which you will see reflected in, for instance, school disciplinary measures, political corruption, and criminal convictions.
(8) These differences are magnified by the hostility many blacks feel toward whites. Thus, while black-on-black behavior is more antisocial in the average than is white-on-white behavior, average black-on-white behavior is a degree more antisocial yet.
(9) A small cohort of blacks—in my experience, around five percent—is ferociously hostile to whites and will go to great lengths to inconvenience or harm us. A much larger cohort of blacks—around half—will go along passively if the five percent take leadership in some event. They will do this out of racial solidarity, the natural willingness of most human beings to be led, and a vague feeling that whites have it coming.(10) Thus, while always attentive to the particular qualities of individuals, on the many occasions where you have nothing to guide you but knowledge of those mean differences, use statistical common sense:
(10a) Avoid concentrations of blacks not all known to you personally.
(10b) Stay out of heavily black neighborhoods.
(10c) If planning a trip to a beach or amusement park at some date, find out whether it is likely to be swamped with blacks on that date (neglect of that one got me the closest I have ever gotten to death by gunshot).
(10d) Do not attend events likely to draw a lot of blacks.
(10e) If you are at some public event at which the number of blacks suddenly swells, leave as quickly as possible.
(10f) Do not settle in a district or municipality run by black politicians.
(10g) Before voting for a black politician, scrutinize his/her character much more carefully than you would a white.
(10h) Do not act the Good Samaritan to blacks in apparent distress, e.g., on the highway.
(10i) If accosted by a strange black in the street, smile and say something polite but keep moving.
(11) The mean intelligence of blacks is much lower than for whites. The least intelligent ten percent of whites have IQs below 81; forty percent of blacks have IQs that low. Only one black in six is more intelligent than the average white; five whites out of six are more intelligent than the average black. These differences show in every test of general cognitive ability that anyone, of any race or nationality, has yet been able to devise. They are reflected in countless everyday situations. “Life is an IQ test.”
(12) There is a magnifying effect here, too, caused by affirmative action. In a pure meritocracy there would be very low proportions of blacks in cognitively demanding jobs. Because of affirmative action, the proportions are higher. In government work, they are very high. Thus, in those encounters with strangers that involve cognitive engagement, ceteris paribus the black stranger will be less intelligent than the white. In such encounters, therefore—for example, at a government office—you will, on average, be dealt with more competently by a white than by a black. If that hostility-based magnifying effect (paragraph 8) is also in play, you will be dealt with more politely, too. “The DMV lady“ is a statistical truth, not a myth.
(13) In that pool of forty million, there are nonetheless many intelligent and well-socialized blacks. (I’ll use IWSB as an ad hoc abbreviation.) You should consciously seek opportunities to make friends with IWSBs. In addition to the ordinary pleasures of friendship, you will gain an amulet against potentially career-destroying accusations of prejudice.
(14) Be aware, however, that there is an issue of supply and demand here. Demand comes from organizations and businesses keen to display racial propriety by employing IWSBs, especially in positions at the interface with the general public—corporate sales reps, TV news presenters, press officers for government agencies, etc.—with corresponding depletion in less visible positions. There is also strong private demand from middle- and upper-class whites for personal bonds with IWSBs, for reasons given in the previous paragraph and also (next paragraph) as status markers.
(15) Unfortunately the demand is greater than the supply, so IWSBs are something of a luxury good, like antique furniture or corporate jets: boasted of by upper-class whites and wealthy organizations, coveted by the less prosperous. To be an IWSB in present-day US society is a height of felicity rarely before attained by any group of human beings in history. Try to curb your envy: it will be taken as prejudice (see paragraph 13).
If there IS a 'Black version' of the' Talk', and it had been posted here instead, BY a Black person, and was equally as disparaging, AND generalising, about Whites (again, if it IS)...would you have posted so quickly to denounce THAT as racist Jeff? I am not trying to pick a fight with you, honestly, but it appears that you have a stronger 'sympathy' with Black people from your relative posts over time? And I am not trying to say you are WRONG either...because your perception of how Black people IN GENERAL are treated by Whites in YOUR experience will undoubtedly influence your opinion. And, despite your recent comment about my 'NF' support, you are far from the truth there. I am not racist at all. I support FAIRNESS, which is probably a better way to support ANYbody, whatever their colour or creed or race. I am just wondering if you support fairness in a similar fashion?
For the most part, I was down with numbers 1-9. Then it's like he said "Okay, I got them with me. Time to start manipulation, phase 2."
When I was a kid, there was no "Black or White". There were just people. Then I grew up some more, and was taught by my teachers that we were different. It was about Middle School when most of the Black kids quit talking to the White kids and formed their own posse. About midway through High School, there was a ridiculous and over-dramatic "Race War" at school. It was the hicks against the Blacks, Blacks against the hicks. It went on for a few months: fights a few times a week, someone's car getting damaged, LOTS of racist poop slinging going around, typical High School B.S. One day, people realized how stupid they were being, and at lunch, 3 representative from each "side" formed in the middle of the room and shook hands.
It sounds so juvenile, and it was, but for the rest of my High School, there were no differences. It's like the "War" finally got us all together. It was as the world should be. Race simply wasn't an issue.
I wish that was how it stayed. Unfortunately, it isn't. But that's still how I try and see it. My point is though, because of the emphasis on separating Black history from history, and the emphasis on "Look at the first 'African-American' to do this or that", I learned what it meant to see things in different colors. I absolutely, 100% attribute what happened in High School to the education system that drove us apart by their over-abundance of talking about race at all. Sure, some could be the parents, but the same group of kids that hung out together in early Middle School suddenly split when we started bolding every topic that had to do with race.
I say we teach history in a linear fashion. People did things at certain times. No race is part of any "community"; that separates us. If we are to be ONE nation, we can't be separated like that. There will always be racism--you can't destroy a thought--but we can help fight it.
On another note, my friend Dino back home has now been pulled over 3 times in a month, and I believe it's only because he's Black. No tickets, because he never did anything wrong. They label the reason as "suspicion". A few days back, he was handcuffed and put into a police car as they searched his vehicle. When they got done, they uncuffed him, said "Have a nice day" and drove off. No apology. I asked him why he didn't refuse the search. It was then that I realized that all of my views on race are only applicable for my age group. Racism is a lot more prevalent in older folks than it is for us in our lower 20's.
I'm probably rambling by now, but this has been a talk at the dinner table quite a bit since most of my family is from the "East side" of STL, which has a large Black population, but I grew up without seeing most of that perspective.
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09:49 PM
Khw Member
Posts: 11139 From: South Weber, UT. U.S.A. Registered: Jun 2008
Originally posted by theBDub: On another note, my friend Dino back home has now been pulled over 3 times in a month, and I believe it's only because he's Black. No tickets, because he never did anything wrong.
I'm white and got pulled over 10 times in one month with no tickets...
On another note, my friend Dino back home has now been pulled over 3 times in a month, and I believe it's only because he's Black. No tickets, because he never did anything wrong. They label the reason as "suspicion". A few days back, he was handcuffed and put into a police car as they searched his vehicle. When they got done, they uncuffed him, said "Have a nice day" and drove off. No apology. I asked him why he didn't refuse the search. It was then that I realized that all of my views on race are only applicable for my age group. Racism is a lot more prevalent in older folks than it is for us in our lower 20's.
Interesting post Brennan. First of all, I constantly read here that Police are 'disrespectful' on many occasions to White people too...so maybe that is more of a 'Police' thing than a 'Race' thing? And are you sure the Policemen involved were all white people...or maybe there were some black officers too? And the other comment about 'racism is more prevalent in older Folks' is quite possibly because many of the 'older folks', other than those who lived in big cities at the time, experienced life before there were many immigrants at all, and the appearance of immigrants, especially black people, was something that broke into the pattern of their life experience...whereas most people of twenties, even thirties, came into experiencing a life whereby the immigrants were already established in fairly large numbers, and therefore not providing a 'contrast' to the early years of their lives?
[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 04-10-2012).]
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10:02 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
I'm white and got pulled over 10 times in one month with no tickets...
I understand that. Usually, I'm the last to cry racism, as like I said, I didn't realize it was so frequent (especially where I grew up). It could very much be just "luck of the draw", but at this point, I'm doubting it.
quote
Originally posted by fierofetish:
Interesting post Brennan. First of all, I constantly read here that Police are 'disrespectful' on many occasions to White people too...so maybe that is more of a 'Police' thing than a 'Race' thing? And are you sure the Policemen involved were all white people...or maybe there were some black officers too? And the other comment about 'racism is more prevalent in older Folks' is quite possibly because many of the 'older folks', other than those who lived in big cities at the time, experienced life before there were many immigrants at all, and the appearance of immigrants, especially black people, was something that broke into the pattern of their life experience...whereas most people of twenties, even thirties, came into experiencing a life whereby the immigrants were already established in fairly large numbers, and therefore not providing a 'contrast' to the early years of their lives?
They were all White. I guess I should have explained myself. Dino and I talked about it--he thinks it's race now too. He didn't at first, but he's been getting pulled over for months now without speeding or anything, and he doesn't drive a bad car or a very nice car, there aren't lights out anywhere, he's just pulled over and questioned.
And yes, absolutely on the older folk part. I understand why, and don't blame anyone, just was showing my [naive] perspective. This is one of the few times where I acknowledge my young age really has disabled me from seeing the whole picture, simply because of how I grew up compared to how my parents and their parents were.
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10:15 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
(10a) Avoid concentrations of blacks not all known to you personally.
(10b) Stay out of heavily black neighborhoods.
(10c) If planning a trip to a beach or amusement park at some date, find out whether it is likely to be swamped with blacks on that date (neglect of that one got me the closest I have ever gotten to death by gunshot).
(10d) Do not attend events likely to draw a lot of blacks.
(10e) If you are at some public event at which the number of blacks suddenly swells, leave as quickly as possible.
(10h) Do not act the Good Samaritan to blacks in apparent distress, e.g., on the highway.
(10i) If accosted by a strange black in the street, smile and say something polite but keep moving.
I have read and thought alot about this today. Is it sound advice?
The reason I ask, is becouse I never considered any of those "rules" when I lived all my life in Alaska. I went in any neighborhood, to any event, help anyone, etc. with not much of a thought about what color the other people were. Was that just unique becouse of the lo-cal?
And what if I am now in the real world? Is this how I should be looking at it? And the above is just simple good advice in this new world I am in?
Kinda' like safety advice when venturing into the Alaska wilderness? And the above list is just "Big City" advice?
Do others here "in the big world" just subconsciencly follow this advice as kinda' "common sense"?
What happens to the above rules if "black" is replaced with "white"? Do blacks follow those same kind of "cautions" in their everyday life?
quote
(10a) Avoid concentrations of WHITES not all known to you personally.
(10b) Stay out of heavily WHITE neighborhoods.
(10c) If planning a trip to a beach or amusement park at some date, find out whether it is likely to be swamped with WHITES on that date.
(10d) Do not attend events likely to draw a lot of WHITES.
(10e) If you are at some public event at which the number of WHITES suddenly swells, leave as quickly as possible.
(10h) Do not act the Good Samaritan to WHITES in apparent distress, e.g., on the highway.
(10i) If accosted by a strange WHITE in the street, smile and say something polite but keep moving.
Or is all these "rules" just the generalizational rantings of a racist man?
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 04-10-2012).]
Perhaps it might be 'fairer' to say he didn't conceive these 'ideals' as a racist, per se...just a perception of 'dangers' he, and others, might well have experienced? I have heard this advice being given in many big cities of the World, in relation to the 'ghetto' areas . London? Don't wander around in Brixton, Harlesden, Willesden...etc..etc..Paris, the same...Amsterdam...Barcelona...etc etc...Were these warnings issued because the speaker was racist..or simply reflecting upon events that have happened more than a few times IN these areas? IS this type of warning racist..or simply pragmatic ? Much as we are warned not to stray into the everglades because of the dangerous animals etc there? Built on genuine experiences of people who DID do just that, and suffered the consequences? Would that be defined as 'animalist'?
[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 04-10-2012).]
Don't go in dangerous neighborhoods. Don't go to dangerous activities. The skin color is a terrible judge of character, and "safety" is a terrible rationalization for racism.
This is just my opinion, but I grew up right out of STL. It is dangerous here. In fact, it's typically within the top 3 most dangerous cities every year. We have a very large Black population, but that has very little to do with it. Outside of the city limits, it's generally safe, and inside of the city limits, it's generally *more* dangerous, regardless of skin color.
Following those rules, my paternal grandfather never would've met my grandmother, my daughter never would've met her husband and I would've never met her mother, I never would've met my Gina and I would've likely never done what I've spent my life doing.....too many White folks have had to come into contact with me.....or been forced to work with and/or for me.
Let's just hope this guy isn't a breeder.
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11:38 PM
Apr 11th, 2012
Khw Member
Posts: 11139 From: South Weber, UT. U.S.A. Registered: Jun 2008
If there IS a 'Black version' of the' Talk', and it had been posted here instead, BY a Black person, and was equally as disparaging, AND generalising, about Whites (again, if it IS)...would you have posted so quickly to denounce THAT as racist Jeff? I am not trying to pick a fight with you, honestly, but it appears that you have a stronger 'sympathy' with Black people from your relative posts over time? And I am not trying to say you are WRONG either...because your perception of how Black people IN GENERAL are treated by Whites in YOUR experience will undoubtedly influence your opinion. And, despite your recent comment about my 'NF' support, you are far from the truth there. I am not racist at all. I support FAIRNESS, which is probably a better way to support ANYbody, whatever their colour or creed or race. I am just wondering if you support fairness in a similar fashion?
What makes you think that I would have any desire to engage in a conversation with you?
A couple of things. (you know I'm gonna have an opinion on this article) 1. It's about as bigoted a piece of crap as I've recently read. The guy has some serious deep rooted fears from somewhere and is trying (if the part about talking to his own kids is true) to pass those fears on to his children.
2. There's a tiny bit of truth to it, but it reaches further than the single race he chose to malign. There are social and socio-economic groups of all kinds in the world, even today. Some are based on skin color--some on religion--some on wealth-some on lack of wealth-some based on criminal activity--some on politics, and a whole host of other factors. Sad, but quite true. Sailors aren't too welcome in US Army hangouts. In some areas, military is not AT ALL welcome in civilan hangouts. In my town, I've seen 'physical altercations' when American Legionaires visited the VFW. Are there places i 'won't' go into? Well there are places I've been told in no uncertain terms not to enter because of the color of my skin.
One, is a little bar outside Memphis called the Bucket of Blood. A friend of mine named Robby and I were drinking in the base club and it was closing time, and we weren't ready to give it up for the night. He sez--"Lets go into town, I know a place that stays open late." When we pulled up, he said: "We'll be ok tonight since you're with me, but don't try to come in here by yourself--they're particular who they let in here". Robby, was black. They gave him a hard time for a few minutes for bringing me in, but nothing came of it. . There were probably a dozen clubs in memphis that the inverse was just as true.That was Memphis--1973.
Fast forward to last year when i went to visit my inlaws for a week. My brother-in-law rode into town with me right at dark one night as I went to replinish our beverage and ice stock. B-I-L is not a white man. We get out of the liqour store and he wants to stop somewhere he knows to get the ice and shoot a quick game of pool. He directs me to this place, and it doesn't look 'too' bad, except the outside has been tagged, retagged, and tagged again in every empty inch of space. We walk to the door, and dang if he doesn't say almost word for word what Robbie had told me a couple of decades ago. "Don't come in here by yourself". We didn't get 2 ft in the door and someone hollers his name and asks " Man--WTF you doin bringin this white guy in here?--you know we don't like white folks in here". The guy is visibly angry. B-I-L explains I'm family and evidently that's ok. Paris Texas 2011.
I've seen a dozen or so fights break out in my life, just because one drilling crew happened to go into a place another drilling company called "theirs". I mean get bloody, tear the place up fights. Saw a fight in a grocery store in Caldwell Texas because the locals didn't feel like waiting in line behind oilfield trash, and don't even THINK about going in the Surrey Restraunt in that same town, with oilfield coveralls on--the local ranchers will run you out in fear you're going to just look at their daughters or wives.
Walk into a place in Pierre Part or Port Barre La and order a beer, and as soon as you do, all the conversations in the whole place turn to French and you know immediately that you are out of your element.
Ya see Boondawg, it "can" happen anywhere for any reason--or no reason at all. The closest town to me, Cleveland, pop. 8000, the police are very vocal about saying they don't want to enter The Blocks. High crime and drugs everywhere. "The Blocks" btw, is the same little arera where the 11 yr old girl was gang raped in 2010 for most of a day by over a dozen hooligans.
And again, it isn't specific to skin color--just be aware of your surroundings and 'attitudes' at all times, just like you were in the Alaskan Wilderness.
Oh, and if you're ever hankering for a canoe ride, just remember..........If you hear banjo music, it probably isn't a Chinese or African American doing the picking...
What makes you think that I would have any desire to engage in a conversation with you?
Because maybe I hoped you were intelligent enough to realise that perpetual warring is totally unproductive? That maybe by having an intelligent conversation, things could hopefully improve between us? Because maybe I think you are somewhat different to the image you wish to project of yourself here is not the real one? Perhaps the fact that two people I respect enormously on here think you are 'good people', and that therefore I have misjudged you entirely, and accept that I have been wrong about you? Building bridges hopefully leads to an expansion of horizons? Maybe I just got tired of the invective, and wanted to hold a civil conversation? Pick any, or ALL of those reasons, to explain why I would like to think of you in the same way. I don't expect anything, and that way I will never be disappointed. However, an effort to be civil needs to start at LEAST from one side, and I am trying that route.
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06:30 AM
TommyRocker Member
Posts: 2808 From: Woodstock, IL Registered: Dec 2009
I think there are nuggets of truth and common sense sprinkled in, but he is obviously racist.
I am a white guy, but I was raised in a heavily black area and with multiple close black family members, so racism was never added to the mix. People are people. There are good blacks and bad whites, and the opposite. That said, there are some very real differences between the two, and any other culture or race in the world. The statistically lower IQ of blacks in America seems to be true, however much I look for information indicating the contrary. I believe this to be a cultural difference rather than an inherent inferiority. A higher percentage of blacks come from a poorer class than the average white, and as a result of this they tend to have fewer opportunities for education, et cetera. This forms a weak foundation for them as a race. Throw in the apparently different characteristics that are looked for in a mate, and this forms a weak genetic pool. Growing up in a very poor area, I saw the same things in white people, too, so I firmly believe this to be a class and culture issue rather than a race issue. They look for a big, strong, attractive mate above an intelligent, kind, good provider. These big, strong, stupid people who find big, strong, stupid mates tend to breed big, strong, stupid kids, regardless of color.
The antisocial thing does tend to be true in my experience, but I also think this is a characteristic of the lower class, rather than the race. Poor, ignorant, white hillbillies tend to be antisocial, too, especially towards those of a diffferent social class or culture.
I think rather than "Avoid large gatherings of black people", one should "avoid large gatherings of ignorant people"
Also, if I see a big scary black man coming at me on the street, I'm avoiding him. If I see a big scary white man coming at me on the street, I'm avoiding him.
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08:32 AM
dsnover Member
Posts: 1668 From: Cherryville, PA USA Registered: Apr 2006
Since I have no reference to the alleged 'Black' version of 'The Talk', I'll posit this:
What if, instead of being racist, the author was trying to point out the racism of what the 'other' version is?
Sort of like, having an 'Ivory' magazine would show how racist 'Ebony' magazine is, or having a 'NAAWP' would be the antithesis of the 'NAACP', etc?
So, why is one 'OK', while the other is not?
(Of course, the author could just be a racist pig too.......)
I find frank discussion of these racial issues to be a 'good thing', as long as they serve to tear down the stereotypes and generalizations that prevent us all from being just 'American'.
I personally don't like the terms 'African American' or 'Italian American', etc. I would prefer that we simply be 'Americans'. I am no longer German. That ceased when my ancestors chose to come to America and be citizens. I can recognize my German heritage, and even celebrate some aspects of it, but I am firmly AMERICAN, and my service is to my country.
***NOTE***I recognize that this is an international forum, and obviously there are other countries in play, but the point would be equally valid in Germany, for example. Is there even the term 'African German' in Germany?
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09:04 AM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
Because maybe I hoped you were intelligent enough to realise that perpetual warring is totally unproductive? That maybe by having an intelligent conversation, things could hopefully improve between us? Because maybe I think you are somewhat different to the image you wish to project of yourself here is not the real one? Perhaps the fact that two people I respect enormously on here think you are 'good people', and that therefore I have misjudged you entirely, and accept that I have been wrong about you? Building bridges hopefully leads to an expansion of horizons? Maybe I just got tired of the invective, and wanted to hold a civil conversation? Pick any, or ALL of those reasons, to explain why I would like to think of you in the same way. I don't expect anything, and that way I will never be disappointed. However, an effort to be civil needs to start at LEAST from one side, and I am trying that route.
Consider the bridge burnt. You have stepped across the line far too many times with me. I have no interest in justifying any part of my life to you, and that includes my opinions.
The Talk that is originally being referred to is mostly about being respectful. It says "Sometimes, you might get in trouble for not doing anything. Just stay respectful to the police and all will be good in the end."
I'm on my phone and don't want to go looking for it, but it was basically just more of that. Honestly, I don't understand why it's a conversation for a Black parent. I was taught to always be respectful too. But The Talk isn't racist. This is.
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11:53 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
For the most part, I was down with numbers 1-9. Then it's like he said "Okay, I got them with me. Time to start manipulation, phase 2."
He for sure was doing some if that.
I like this bit: "They come fat, thin, tall, short, dumb, smart, introverted, extroverted, honest, crooked, athletic, sedentary, fastidious, sloppy, amiable, and obnoxious. There are black geniuses and black morons. There are black saints and black psychopaths. In a population of forty million, you will find almost any human type."
Humans, they come in all assorted flavors.
If he left the bit about skin color out and made this about people in general it wouildn't be so bad. I bet there were some white folk at a rap concert packing a 9 as well. There are many white folk kept in or moved up in their positions at work due to "diversity initiatives" whatever "minority" they seem to be, reverse descrimination based on gender, or sexual preference for example.
quote
Originally posted by theBDub:
Absolutely generalized viewpoints from a racist.
Don't go in dangerous neighborhoods. Don't go to dangerous activities. The skin color is a terrible judge of character, and "safety" is a terrible rationalization for racism.
This is just my opinion, but I grew up right out of STL. It is dangerous here. In fact, it's typically within the top 3 most dangerous cities every year. We have a very large Black population, but that has very little to do with it. Outside of the city limits, it's generally safe, and inside of the city limits, it's generally *more* dangerous, regardless of skin color.
Exactly.
Dangerous humans.
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12:16 PM
PFF
System Bot
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
As for getting pulled over alot. Just some things to note. Cops pull young people over more, they pull people over with oversized chrome wheels more, flashy attention getting paint jobs morebooming sound systems more, dark tinted windows more, a car full of other young people more, driving around at 2am more, hanging out where illegal activity happens more, dangerous neighborhoods more..Maybe? Is back up nearby? Sure there are prejudiced cops just like there are prejudiced people in any preofession. But any skin color person doing these things just increased their chances.
Consider the bridge burnt. You have stepped across the line far too many times with me. I have no interest in justifying any part of my life to you, and that includes my opinions.
Fine. Proves a LOT about you which I, and many others suspected. Seriously, your loss...not mine. So now..I presume your attitude will also preclude you from making any further disparaging remarks either directly in my threads, or via others.? That will be very welcome, not only for my pleasure, but many others too. and I will be pleased to reciprocate in a like fashion. As I did for a long time. And just let me reassure you..it isn't hard , because you bring absolutely NOTHING of value to this community..IMH (HONEST, NOT HUMBLE ) Opinion.
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12:36 PM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
Look, you got your attention. You can go now. You can argue with the other posters in this thread who share my opinion, but I'm not interested in being trolled by you today.
You know, if it was once or twice that you crossed the line with me (and you know which one) I could see where it might be unreasonable to not conduct a conversation with you via the forum. But time and time again I have had to endure your lies and slander, as you hide halfway around the world from me. You are a coward and a troll, and one of the dominating reasons for my lack of contributions to this forum. If I am truly worthless to this forum, then you only have yourself to blame.
[This message has been edited by WhiteDevil88 (edited 04-11-2012).]
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12:49 PM
nosrac Member
Posts: 3524 From: Euless, TX, US Registered: Jan 2005
(13) In that pool of forty million, there are nonetheless many intelligent and well-socialized blacks. (I’ll use IWSB as an ad hoc abbreviation.) You should consciously seek opportunities to make friends with IWSBs. In addition to the ordinary pleasures of friendship, you will gain an amulet against potentially career-destroying accusations of prejudice.
14) Be aware, however, that there is an issue of supply and demand here. Demand comes from organizations and businesses keen to display racial propriety by employing IWSBs, especially in positions at the interface with the general public—corporate sales reps, TV news presenters, press officers for government agencies, etc.—with corresponding depletion in less visible positions. There is also strong private demand from middle- and upper-class whites for personal bonds with IWSBs, for reasons given in the previous paragraph and also (next paragraph) as status markers.
(15) Unfortunately the demand is greater than the supply, so IWSBs are something of a luxury good, like antique furniture or corporate jets: boasted of by upper-class whites and wealthy organizations, coveted by the less prosperous. To be an IWSB in present-day US society is a height of felicity rarely before attained by any group of human beings in history. Try to curb your envy: it will be taken as prejudice (see paragraph 13).
This Quack's me up !
quote
token black guy
Any fictional character of African-American descent that has been inconsequently inserted into the plot a movie or TV show for the express purposes of creating an image of commercially safe, politically correct, and insipid racial harmony. In eras gone by the token black guys would be the first characters to be killed off. This phenomena of commercial cinema and television that would sacrifice the quality of their storytelling for the sake of attempting the impossible act of offending absolutely nobody, is succinctly satirized by the aptly named south park character, Token.
Token from south park, Charley in the TV show Friends.
[This message has been edited by nosrac (edited 04-11-2012).]
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12:59 PM
nosrac Member
Posts: 3524 From: Euless, TX, US Registered: Jan 2005
FYI, I'm a Chocolate IWSBs as we come in all different colors.
Anyway, I am hiring Friends as one can never have enough and am a equal opportunity employer. Everyone who applies gets the job and can start immediately but you MUST love Fiero's or you will be placed on a waiting list.
please, forgive me but this stuff is Hilarious to me.
.......... IWSBs are something of a luxury good, like antique furniture or corporate jets: boasted of by upper-class whites and wealthy organizations, coveted by the less prosperous. To be an IWSB in present-day US society is a height of felicity rarely before attained by any group of human beings in history. Try to curb your envy: it will be taken as prejudice.
Hey, y'all!
I'm a "luxury good" now!! Get outta here!!
That's one HELL of a step up from being considered a "farming utensil." What a difference a mere 149 years makes!
The Jeffersons were right....We ARE "movin' on up!"
<absolutely lathered in sarcasm>
[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 04-11-2012).]
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01:17 PM
MidEngineManiac Member
Posts: 29566 From: Some unacceptable view Registered: Feb 2007
Look, you got your attention. You can go now. You can argue with the other posters in this thread who share my opinion, but I'm not interested in being trolled by you today.
You know, if it was once or twice that you crossed the line with me (and you know which one) I could see where it might be unreasonable to not conduct a conversation with you via the forum. But time and time again I have had to endure your lies and slander, as you hide halfway around the world from me. You are a coward and a troll, and one of the dominating reasons for my lack of contributions to this forum. If I am truly worthless to this forum, then you only have yourself to blame.
I'll go when I feel like it, and not to suit you. You don't scare me in the LEAST,either verbally or physically. Coward? A coward is somebody who uses their size to dominate others, not their intelligence. Hiding from you? From what? A big fat bully who can't win with words, so you get frustrated because I am not in front of you so you can prove what a big guy your are?? There you go again!! Blaming your lack of being a worthwhile contributor to this Forum on ME?? Your stupidity, and transparent manipulation lets most of us realise what a fool you are. So many people choose not to point out to you that they can see what you really are...and you take that as a tacit affirmation that they agree with you!! You know what? Whether your injury is real or not...you have made no effort to overcome your disability, if you have one. You are dependent upon a drug, and allowed it with gusto. You LOVE that drug: you did BEFORE you had your mishap, which has come as a Godsend to you, because you can 'justify' your addiction in the name of medicine. Hypocrite. You make no effort to become a productive member of the population. Nerve damage? IN ONE FOOT. Look, I'll show you somebody overcoming ENORMOUS disability with verve, and determination, amd spirit. Just one of hundreds of thousands the same. And you moan and bleat about your sore ankle? I'll leave you with THIS...and I hope you feel shame at your pathos...but I don't hold my breath waiting.
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01:41 PM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10655 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
National Review is generally considered to be a haven for intellectual conservatives. John Derbyshire is a columnist for the magazine and a regular contributor to its much-read blog, The Corner. People were shocked when Derbyshire penned The Talk: Nonblack Version, a set of rules white people should tell their kids about African Americans. The rules are, needless to say, quite controversial:
The Talk: Nonblack Version
by John Derbyshire April 05, 2012
There is much talk about “the talk.”
“Sean O’Reilly was 16 when his mother gave him the talk that most black parents give their teenage sons,” Denisa R. Superville of the Hackensack (NJ) Record tells us. Meanwhile, down in Atlanta: “Her sons were 12 and 8 when Marlyn Tillman realized it was time for her to have the talk,” Gracie Bonds Staples writes in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.
Leonard Greene talks about the talk in the New York Post. Someone bylined as KJ Dell’Antonia talks about the talk in The New York Times. Darryl Owens talks about the talk in the Orlando Sentinel. Yes, talk about the talk is all over.
There is a talk that nonblack Americans have with their kids, too. My own kids, now 19 and 16, have had it in bits and pieces as subtopics have arisen. If I were to assemble it into a single talk, it would look something like the following.
(1) Among your fellow citizens are forty million who identify as black, and whom I shall refer to as black. The cumbersome (and MLK-noncompliant) term “African-American” seems to be in decline, thank goodness. “Colored” and “Negro” are archaisms. What you must call “the ‘N’ word” is used freely among blacks but is taboo to nonblacks.
(2) American blacks are descended from West African populations, with some white and aboriginal-American admixture. The overall average of non-African admixture is 20-25 percent. The admixture distribution is nonlinear, though: “It seems that around 10 percent of the African American population is more than half European in ancestry.” (Same link.)
(3) Your own ancestry is mixed north-European and northeast-Asian, but blacks will take you to be white.
(4) The default principle in everyday personal encounters is, that as a fellow citizen, with the same rights and obligations as yourself, any individual black is entitled to the same courtesies you would extend to a nonblack citizen. That is basic good manners and good citizenship. In some unusual circumstances, however—e.g., paragraph (10h) below—this default principle should be overridden by considerations of personal safety.
(5) As with any population of such a size, there is great variation among blacks in every human trait (except, obviously, the trait of identifying oneself as black). They come fat, thin, tall, short, dumb, smart, introverted, extroverted, honest, crooked, athletic, sedentary, fastidious, sloppy, amiable, and obnoxious. There are black geniuses and black morons. There are black saints and black psychopaths. In a population of forty million, you will find almost any human type. Only at the far, far extremes of certain traits are there absences. There are, for example, no black Fields Medal winners. While this is civilizationally consequential, it will not likely ever be important to you personally. Most people live and die without ever meeting (or wishing to meet) a Fields Medal winner.
(6) As you go through life, however, you will experience an ever larger number of encounters with black Americans. Assuming your encounters are random—for example, not restricted only to black convicted murderers or to black investment bankers—the Law of Large Numbers will inevitably kick in. You will observe that the means—the averages—of many traits are very different for black and white Americans, as has been confirmed by methodical inquiries in the human sciences.
(7) Of most importance to your personal safety are the very different means for antisocial behavior, which you will see reflected in, for instance, school disciplinary measures, political corruption, and criminal convictions.
(8) These differences are magnified by the hostility many blacks feel toward whites. Thus, while black-on-black behavior is more antisocial in the average than is white-on-white behavior, average black-on-white behavior is a degree more antisocial yet.
(9) A small cohort of blacks—in my experience, around five percent—is ferociously hostile to whites and will go to great lengths to inconvenience or harm us. A much larger cohort of blacks—around half—will go along passively if the five percent take leadership in some event. They will do this out of racial solidarity, the natural willingness of most human beings to be led, and a vague feeling that whites have it coming.(10) Thus, while always attentive to the particular qualities of individuals, on the many occasions where you have nothing to guide you but knowledge of those mean differences, use statistical common sense:
(10a) Avoid concentrations of blacks not all known to you personally.
(10b) Stay out of heavily black neighborhoods.
(10c) If planning a trip to a beach or amusement park at some date, find out whether it is likely to be swamped with blacks on that date (neglect of that one got me the closest I have ever gotten to death by gunshot).
(10d) Do not attend events likely to draw a lot of blacks.
(10e) If you are at some public event at which the number of blacks suddenly swells, leave as quickly as possible.
(10f) Do not settle in a district or municipality run by black politicians.
(10g) Before voting for a black politician, scrutinize his/her character much more carefully than you would a white.
(10h) Do not act the Good Samaritan to blacks in apparent distress, e.g., on the highway.
(10i) If accosted by a strange black in the street, smile and say something polite but keep moving.
(11) The mean intelligence of blacks is much lower than for whites. The least intelligent ten percent of whites have IQs below 81; forty percent of blacks have IQs that low. Only one black in six is more intelligent than the average white; five whites out of six are more intelligent than the average black. These differences show in every test of general cognitive ability that anyone, of any race or nationality, has yet been able to devise. They are reflected in countless everyday situations. “Life is an IQ test.”
(12) There is a magnifying effect here, too, caused by affirmative action. In a pure meritocracy there would be very low proportions of blacks in cognitively demanding jobs. Because of affirmative action, the proportions are higher. In government work, they are very high. Thus, in those encounters with strangers that involve cognitive engagement, ceteris paribus the black stranger will be less intelligent than the white. In such encounters, therefore—for example, at a government office—you will, on average, be dealt with more competently by a white than by a black. If that hostility-based magnifying effect (paragraph 8) is also in play, you will be dealt with more politely, too. “The DMV lady“ is a statistical truth, not a myth.
(13) In that pool of forty million, there are nonetheless many intelligent and well-socialized blacks. (I’ll use IWSB as an ad hoc abbreviation.) You should consciously seek opportunities to make friends with IWSBs. In addition to the ordinary pleasures of friendship, you will gain an amulet against potentially career-destroying accusations of prejudice.
(14) Be aware, however, that there is an issue of supply and demand here. Demand comes from organizations and businesses keen to display racial propriety by employing IWSBs, especially in positions at the interface with the general public—corporate sales reps, TV news presenters, press officers for government agencies, etc.—with corresponding depletion in less visible positions. There is also strong private demand from middle- and upper-class whites for personal bonds with IWSBs, for reasons given in the previous paragraph and also (next paragraph) as status markers.
(15) Unfortunately the demand is greater than the supply, so IWSBs are something of a luxury good, like antique furniture or corporate jets: boasted of by upper-class whites and wealthy organizations, coveted by the less prosperous. To be an IWSB in present-day US society is a height of felicity rarely before attained by any group of human beings in history. Try to curb your envy: it will be taken as prejudice (see paragraph 13).
I'll go when I feel like it, and not to suit you. You don't scare me in the LEAST,either verbally or physically. Coward? A coward is somebody who uses their size to dominate others, not their intelligence. Hiding from you? From what? A big fat bully who can't win with words, so you get frustrated because I am not in front of you so you can prove what a big guy your are?? There you go again!! Blaming your lack of being a worthwhile contributor to this Forum on ME?? Your stupidity, and transparent manipulation lets most of us realise what a fool you are. So many people choose not to point out to you that they can see what you really are...and you take that as a tacit affirmation that they agree with you!! You know what? Whether your injury is real or not...you have made no effort to overcome your disability, if you have one. You are dependent upon a drug, and allowed it with gusto. You LOVE that drug: you did BEFORE you had your mishap, which has come as a Godsend to you, because you can 'justify' your addiction in the name of medicine. Hypocrite. You make no effort to become a productive member of the population. Nerve damage? IN ONE FOOT. Look, I'll show you somebody overcoming ENORMOUS disability with verve, and determination, amd spirit. Just one of hundreds of thousands the same. And you moan and bleat about your sore ankle? I'll leave you with THIS...and I hope you feel shame at your pathos...but I don't hold my breath waiting.
You truly are a horrible person.
My apologies to others in this thread for the cross talk.
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02:24 PM
lurker Member
Posts: 12355 From: salisbury nc usa Registered: Feb 2002
See? there you go again!! transferring your hatred for yourself to somebody else. If you could watch that video without feeling just a LITTLE bit ashamed, and humble, then you are beyond all reason and help. Wake up, Jeff. I didn't post that in spite. I hoped that you MIGHT just look at yourself,having watched it and realise what YOU are doing to YOUR self...not me, or anybody else. YOU.
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02:34 PM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
it would be nice if the two of you would just pretend that the other didnt exist.
I ignored some really good advice from someone I respect who PMd me. My bad. I should have ignored him from the beginning. Well, better late then never.
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02:40 PM
lurker Member
Posts: 12355 From: salisbury nc usa Registered: Feb 2002
. London? Don't wander around in Brixton, Harlesden, Willesden...etc..etc..Paris, the same...Amsterdam...Barcelona...etc etc...Were these warnings issued because the speaker was racist..or simply reflecting upon events that have happened more than a few times IN these areas? IS this type of warning racist..or simply pragmatic 
This Quack's me up ! 
