They should unionize, you know, for their safety. It'd be a shame if something bad happened to their inventory. (it's bad when police reports reads more like a cheap gangster novel)
I heard about this last Fall on talk radio. I understand Martin Guitars gets wood from the same source in India, but evidently are a large contributor to the current President.
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04:27 PM
Aug 6th, 2012
texasfiero Member
Posts: 4674 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: Jun 2003
It's good to see that the Justice Department is achieving success on such an important issue as this. They could have wasted their time on illegal matters, or government spending, or gun running. Those boys are on the ball. Aren't you glad?
Gibson Guitar Corp. entered into a criminal enforcement agreement with the United States today resolving a criminal investigation into allegations that the company violated the Lacey Act by illegally purchasing and importing ebony wood from Madagascar and rosewood and ebony from India.
The agreement was announced today by Assistant Attorney General Ignacia S. Moreno of the Justice Department’s Environment and Natural Resources Division, Jerry Martin, U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of Tennessee and Dan Ashe, Director of the Department of the Interior’s U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service.
The criminal enforcement agreement defers prosecution for criminal violations of the Lacey Act and requires Gibson to pay a penalty amount of $300,000. The agreement further provides for a community service payment of $50,000 to the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation to be used to promote the conservation, identification and propagation of protected tree species used in the musical instrument industry and the forests where those species are found. Gibson will also implement a compliance program designed to strengthen its compliance controls and procedures. In related civil forfeiture actions, Gibson will withdraw its claims to the wood seized in the course of the criminal investigation, including Madagascar ebony from shipments with a total invoice value of $261,844.
In light of Gibson’s acknowledgement of its conduct, its duties under the Lacey Act and its promised cooperation and remedial actions, the government will decline charging Gibson criminally in connection with Gibson’s order, purchase or importation of ebony from Madagascar and ebony and rosewood from India, provided that Gibson fully carries out its obligations under the agreement, and commits no future violations of law, including Lacey Act violations.
“As a result of this investigation and criminal enforcement agreement, Gibson has acknowledged that it failed to act on information that the Madagascar ebony it was purchasing may have violated laws intended to limit overharvesting and conserve valuable wood species from Madagascar, a country which has been severely impacted by deforestation,” said Assistant Attorney General Moreno. “Gibson has ceased acquisitions of wood species from Madagascar and recognizes its duty under the U.S. Lacey Act to guard against the acquisition of wood of illegal origin by verifying the circumstances of its harvest and export, which is good for American business and American consumers.”
“The Department of Justice is committed to enforcing the laws enacted by Congress,” said U.S. Attorney Martin. “Failure to do so harms those who play by the rules and follow the law. This criminal enforcement agreement goes a long way in demonstrating the government’s commitment to protecting the world’s natural resources. The agreement is fair and just in that it assesses serious penalties for Gibson’s behavior while allowing Gibson to continue to focus on the business of making guitars.”
“The Lacey Act’s illegal logging provisions were enacted with bipartisan support in Congress to protect vanishing foreign species and forest ecosystems, while ensuring a level playing field for America’s forest products industry and the people and communities who depend on it,” said U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Director Ashe. “We’re pleased that Gibson Guitar Corp. has recognized its duties under the Lacey Act to guard against the acquisition of wood of illegal origin from threatened forests and has taken responsibility for actions that may have contributed to the unlawful export and exploitation of wood from some of the world’s most threatened forests.”
Since May 2008, it has been illegal under the Lacey Act to import into the United States plants and plant products (including wood) that have been harvested and exported in violation of the laws of another country. Congress extended the protections of the Lacey Act, the nation’s oldest resource protection law, to these products in an effort to address the environmental and economic impact of illegal logging around the world.
The criminal enforcement agreement includes a detailed statement of facts describing the conduct for which Gibson accepts and acknowledges responsibility. The facts establish the following:
Madagascar Ebony is a slow-growing tree species and supplies are considered threatened in its native environment due to over-exploitation. Both legal and illegal logging of Madagascar Ebony and other tree species have significantly reduced Madagascar’s forest cover. Madagascar’s forests are home to many rare endemic species of plants and animals . The harvest of ebony in and export of unfinished ebony from, Madagascar has been banned since 2006.
Gibson purchased “fingerboard blanks,” consisting of sawn boards of Madagascar ebony, for use in manufacturing guitars. The Madagascar ebony fingerboard blanks were ordered from a supplier who obtained them from an exporter in Madagascar. Gibson’s supplier continued to receive Madagascar ebony fingerboard blanks from its Madagascar exporter after the 2006 ban. The Madagascar exporter did not have authority to export ebony fingerboard blanks after the law issued in Madagascar in 2006.
In 2008, an employee of Gibson participated in a trip to Madagascar, sponsored by a non-profit organization. Participants on the trip, including the Gibson employee, were told that a law passed in 2006 in Madagascar banned the harvest of ebony and the export of any ebony products that were not in finished form. They were further told by trip organizers that instrument parts, such as fingerboard blanks, would be considered unfinished and therefore illegal to export under the 2006 law. Participants also visited the facility of the exporter in Madagascar, from which Gibson’s supplier sourced its Madagascar ebony, and were informed that the wood at the facility was under seizure at that time and could not be moved.
After the Gibson employee returned from Madagascar with this information, he conveyed the information to superiors and others at Gibson. The information received by the Gibson employee during the June 2008 trip, and sent to company management by the employee and others following the June 2008 trip, was not further investigated or acted upon prior to Gibson continuing to place orders with its supplier. Gibson received four shipments of Madagascar ebony fingerboard blanks from its supplier between October 2008 and September 2009.
This case was investigated by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service with assistance from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. The case was handled by the Environmental Crimes Section of the U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Middle District of Tennessee.
The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits. quote from Thomas Jefferson
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09:32 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
What Cr**p. ! Controlling wood for guitars is a nice way to kill the industry and the thousands of jobs that go with it.
As a guitar builder, I can tell you I get all sorts of different wood and thankfully I am in Canada.
Arn
well then you know ebony does nothing for the sound of an ax it is just for looks and is only used on way over priced stuff most guitars do not use rare endangered wood
so why is rare wood an issue it has no effect on sound !!!!!!!
profit there is the key
[This message has been edited by ray b (edited 08-07-2012).]
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05:04 PM
E.Furgal Member
Posts: 11708 From: LAND OF CONFUSION Registered: Mar 2012
And people here CONTINUE to say "Ray b just don't get it."
But you (once again) put your finger on exactly what is at the root of this. Corporations ~v~ Conservation.
he doesn't "get it" nor does the government... fine they got cause with wood, that THAT COUNTRY MEN WOULD CUT DOWN ANYWAYS... so fine them for buying wood .. and let them keep it.. and force them to plant and protect twice the amount they got caught with.. I'LL BET THE ONLY REASON THE bothered with this. at all . is some one's wife in the just. dept. wants a new hardwood floor.. waste of dept. time and resources.. that could've been better served else where..
GIBSON KNEW THE RULES BUT THOUGHT THEY WOULD GET AWAY WITH IT
STUPID IS GETTING CAUGHT
Stupid on both sides. Stupid by Gibson, for not following the law they should have known about, but had to be told of by their own employee. (Just what employee, and who was the sponsoring "non-profit group?" Blatantly violating the laws is a criminal offense, haven't you heard? And YES, they deserved a penalty. Totalling fines, "Community service payments", forfeited materials, lost time, and lawyers fees, this probably cost Gibson around a million dollars. Or, one-half of one percent of their annual sales. Nobody lost their job over this, least of all the dumbsh!ts at the top who thought they'd be ignored.
Now, of the other side, how stupid is it for OUR government to have to enforce the laws of another country? Madagascar has some work to do on their end. Our government SHOULD have more important stuff to worry about than who's buying their wood from where.
Originally posted by E.Furgal: well maybe the people there should start replanting.. duh
You are right replanting would be a good idea. However you are overlooking one not so minor detail, which is that these trees are "very slow growing". Conside the following; "The rare, endemic ebony species of Madagascar grow primarily in the northwestern part of Madagascar,[2] but some also grow in Marojejy and Masoala national parks.[4] Both species are slow growing, and take as much as 300 years or more to reach maturity."
Even if they planted a million trees today, it would be 300 years before they could be harvested. Basically once all the existing trees are harvested, the wood from this type of tree will be unavailable for about 300 years.
Does that sound like a good idea to you?
People need to think long and hard about the future repercussions of the actions that they take. Who knows, conservation of natural resources might be a good idea. Saving something so that future generations have something to look at and enjoy, WOW, what a concept.
~ Bob ~
------------------ "Its nice to be important. Its more important to be nice."
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06:54 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
Did I menion that Neptune needs to get a life? Trolling my posts, without adding to the discussion, is wasting everyones time. Pick on someone else for a while so your trolling isn't as noticeable.
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11:36 AM
Cliff Pennock Administrator
Posts: 11889 From: Zandvoort, The Netherlands Registered: Jan 99
This is getting ridiculous. 40% Of the topics on the first page of TO/T are made up of your political copy & paste posts. Since I'm pretty sure every single one of those threads carry the same message ("Obama sucks"), I'm going to consider this as a violation of the following posting rule if you don't tone it down:
quote
Do not start threads about other threads. So you get in a heated discussion in one of the threads. You get the feeling you are not getting your point across. So you feel the need to start a new thread explaining what you meant in the first thread. Don't. Since there's already a thread on the subject, say it there.
So either tone it down, or create a single thread (you can call it "Avengador's Politics Corner" for all I care).
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05:48 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: So either tone it down, or create a single thread (you can call it "Avengador's Politics Corner" for all I care).
I can just see Mr. Pennock sitting at his computer shaking his head, as he finds himself doing the one thing he has always made quite clear he was loath to do........babysit this forum. Sorry.
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09:17 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
But Neptune started it! He has taken only MY threads and bumped them up to the first page. I didn't do that. Check the original post dates and times and check his date and post times. We all know most of my threads eventually naturally fade away. Neptune is the one who chose to bump them all up front again and I am the one getting reprimanded. Does that sound fair? I hope everyone negs him for this stunt. He would certainly deserve it. People should also notice that this was a hit and run tactic as he has not posted any more today after doing this. This is a typical coward at work.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 08-09-2012).]
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11:47 PM
PFF
System Bot
Aug 10th, 2012
dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
well maybe the people there should start replanting.. duh
Replanting while it may replace the wood and may provide habitat for many species does not guarantee that the rare and unusual species will recover completely or at all. You don't fix a clear cut eco system that easily. Replanting is a good thing, but the replanted forest will never be what it was.
I am a little dis-appointed with you political pundits. I am surprised this hasn’t been brought up already. This isn’t about saving the environment or hugging mother earth. It’s pure political punishment, Chicago style.
This story came up last fall on local talk radio shortly after the raid happened. (www.jasonlewisshow.com) It seems Martin Guitars, which I love, has been doing the same thing with wood from Madagascar. But yet no raids, no seizures. Apparently some of the principals at Martin were big financial supporters to the 2008 Obama Campaign. Principles at Gibson evidently are strong GOP supporters. Just another example of selective enforcement of existing laws. Hummmm. Using the power of your position within this administration to reward your friends and punish your political opposition. Look how one of Mitt’s rich donors has been publically identified, personally attacked, and vilified in the media. Anybody remember Joe the Plumber? Don’t you dare question the Obamanipotent one.
I also have a problem in that it also raises due process issues in that this seizure held the shipment of wood in limbo for almost a year. Gibson was not charged with anything for the longest time and did they ever get their day in court? Also, if I remember correctly, Gibson violated Madagascur export law which our government is enforcing, selectively. I believe the lumber company who sold the wood to Gibson wasn’t charged?!?
You are suggesting the US government engages in rewarding campaign donors? That suggests political parties and politicians have no sense of values, no morals, no integrity. Oh, yeah, politicians.
