Growing up, I was quite the short-story writer.
Acclaimed at school, I was encouraged to keep it up.
I showed a story I was quite proud of, to my Father.
His response?
"Bullsheet, who'd you steal that from?"
I ripped it up & never wrote another story.
I was SO hurt that I had finally done something all my own, and it meant nothing to him.
I quit school soon after that.

Now, In my old age I realize that was just my Fathers way of consoling himself to the fact that he never finished grade school and could read just enough to get by, and thought only big-brained people could write stories, and if one thing is for sure, based on the grades in most my other classes, his son was not any great brain.
Understanding the above, I don't hold any blame to him.
Maybe he felt ashamed, or showed-up, like I was rubbing it in his face.
Like I was better them him.

I still secretly write poetry and lyrics (and then destroy them), but I have not written a story since that day.
I somehow still carry some sort of fear of failure, of not being accepted, of being rejected by someone I respect.
And I SO respect the writing community and good writers.
That fear of being told i'm not good enough, i'm not one of them, that i'm a fake, is still very strong.

Now, I realize that all I have to do is just do.
I enjoy writing so much that just doing it to do it is it's own reward.
But I also get much pleasure out of others reading (and hopefully liking) my stuff.
To me, the money you might make is just frosting.
The cake is in the task, and the enjoyment others get out of reading & liking my work.

I am left with wondering if I can start again.
I have always had a million ideas, as that part of me has never died.
I have carried them with me through the years, and played back and forth with them in my mind.
They are fertile, longing to be impregnated with life, fleshed out, and born to the world.
But I guess that fear is still pretty strong, becouse I cannot seem to start.
I grab a pen or a keyboard, and immediately think about my Father.

Maybe that’s where I need to start.
With my Father.

But, man, would THAT be some VERY painful writing.
And there would be holes in the narrative that would have to be filled.
I would have to tell the whole story.
With that comes the very real possibility that it would do irreparable damage to my family.
I would definitely become persona non grata in their eyes.
I don't think I love writing enough to scandalize the lives of others, but I fear that in one way or another, wether my first project or my 17th, it would all end up being brought out anyway.
Because I think it is probably the source from which my desire to write springs.

I am completely torn, although the desire remains strong in me.
But the complexity of the fear I feel keeps me cowering in the shadows, longingly peering outward.
What is it about skeletons in a closet that makes them so restless?
What real hold do they have on us?

Can a writer write without giving anything of himself?
Can he write outside himself?

quote Can a writer write without giving anything of himself?

No. The story has to be your words, your vision. If you are a writer, Boondawg, write. I look forward to seeing some of this, please.

I had something all written out and then I reread it and I decided I'd just give you encouragement to start writing again instead. I'm sorry your dad didn't see your potential and back you up in your dreams. Good luck!

Doug

Most art seems to be at its best when the artist is in pain.

quote "Bullsheet, who'd you steal that from?"

That probably was the highest praise and compliment your father could have given you in his own way. Your writting was so good that he couldn't face up to the fact that you actually wrote it. He should have been more positive about it though.

Reading drives me to write. Lately my reading to writing ratio has been titled toward the reading side of the fraction. BUT that last book I picked up, Hunter S. Thompson - Kingdom of Fear, has put a new fire under my butt.

PS: Your questions were rhetorical, right?

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Most art seems to be at its best when the artist is in pain.

This is both true and totally false!

You CAN create profound works when you are happy as a clam... just as you can create a great news story even if you aren't on deadline...

...but it helps when you are "hungry' -> when all is 'well', you tend to be too content to easily ignite that creative spark within...

those in "pain" or angst find the spark raging just beneath the surface... and it's easier to release...

[This message has been edited by TheDigitalAlchemist (edited 02-13-2012).]

I haven't written for a long time, but lately I've been getting the urge to see what I can do. When I was younger I wrote cyberpunkish type stories, dungeon and dragons type and on occasion a fusion of the two. I've had a story rolling around in my head for a long time that I just haven't put pen to paper for, although now it'd more likely be fingers to keyboard. As I've told on the forum before, my screen name was supposed to be Khaw. For many years I played Khaw, a shaman, in a game called Everquest. Before that though the name originated back when I played a game called Dragon Quest. He was a pureblood yaun-ti assassin that I played for a few years way back then. I'd like to write about his adventures and eventual self imposed exile. I played that character to the point of insanity when he built a 300 foot mechanon dragon and imprsoned himself in a mountain cave with it. I don't know if it would be good, but I am at the point now that I want to start. I have a couple of other ideas I've considered and listening to books have expanded my ideas. As to what drives someone to write? That's hard to answer as I'm sure the factors will differ from person to person. Honestly, Boon, if you want to write, do it. If you want to keep it private, that's fine. If you want to share it, only do so if it is your desire.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 02-13-2012).]

HI all

CAUTION: At the beginning of thinking about wanting to write, the selfishness the writer has scared me ALOT! To me this was someone who's world was too imaginative. It seemed to me like this kind of person would be more about themselves even while in the company of others. But, there will always be more reasons and quesitons as to why you should not or should do something, and the more you focus on those things that you should or should not do, life passes you by, your now another ten years older.

Yes, writing about your father could help heal your past, but you could also tell your family about what you are inteding to do, obviously those who are less mature may have questions you won't want to face but what would you rather they know? That your an honorable person or someone who would rather hide?

That last question hits me quite harshly, concerning other people, but that is another thread.

To answer this threads question? I chose non-fiction, not because its emotionless, but because I could offer a way for others to not go down the road of life as I had. Fiction is fun, non-fiction without a laugh is the question I ask. So I seek to add fun to fact, and as I said above its alot more easilbly said than done.

Heard of the movie 23? It is about the last question you ask, about writing outside of yourself. So its a thriller. Its has Jim Carrey in it so it could be better than you might think.

The worst sensation of life? Starting it late in life!

The best sensation of life? Jury is still out.

Do what you want to do, and seek to help others understand if there are any pitfallls they could fall in. By doing that last part, you will probably impress yourself.

Thanx all,

Ear-ick...

------------------
Me, I sell engines, the cars are for free, I need something to crate the engines in....
Enzo Ferrari....

Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines....
Enzo Ferrari...

Today they are called garage's, yesterday, they were stable's! Eric Jacobsen.... An advancement, of other
voices I came across.

S.F??, hint, it's a car manufacturer....

Do not walk infront of me, I may not follow. Do not walk behind me, I may not lead. Walk beside me and be my friend forever.
-unknown- found here: http://crystal-cure.com/love-quote.html

Life's best tour guides? Contrast and mixture. One sets things apart yet cohesively, the other seperates associatingly.

“From a very early age, perhaps the age of five or six, I knew that when I grew up I should be a writer. Between the ages of about seventeen and twenty-four I tried to abandon this idea, but I did so with the consciousness that I was outraging my true nature and that sooner or later I should have to settle down and write books.” - George Orwell

"There are many stories that I would like to read, but no one has written them yet." Isaac Asimov, asked why he wrote.

The cake, to me, would be finishing the d@mn thing.

I'd written many short stories in my high school years. Most of them were derivative. Another writer, David Gerrold ("The Trouble With Tribbles" episode of Star Trek TOS) quips, "The first million words that anyone writes are just practice. You may practice finishing the stories, and you may practice selling them, but it is just practice."

Then, I started my novel. Back when I was in HS - this the era of Star Wars spoofs - a friend and I had planned such a spoof which never materialized (film is expensive!). I held onto one of the characters in my head for several years and created a separate story around him. I started to write this story, which had a Douglas Adams sort of vibe - guess what I had just read? I became disenchanted with it and, while traveling on a commuter train, started working on a "what if?" story idea. I turned this over in my head for a few weeks, wondering where it would go. Wherever it was going, it wasn't traveling very fast. Then it hit me - my "spoof" character was the catalyst for change in my "What if?" story. It practically wrote itself.

Except that you have to sit in front of a typewriter/computer for hours and hours on end. I wrote, I edited and I wrote more. The story developed well, and, sometimes, it even took turns that surprised me. While I wrote, I got married, had kids, moved to a new house (with the family) and did all kinds of other stuff. My Magnum Opus was taking years to complete. And, in fact, with the end in sight (and over 50K words), I read what I had and I decided that it no longer spoke to the time that it would have been finished in. It was a 20 year old story.

In the meanwhile, I'd been tossing around a couple of other ideas in my head. So I've started one of those. And it hasn't been without issues. I've edited out major portions twice - once restarting the entire story and then reshuffling the story to fit a new concept/outlook - "Taylor's Mission" is now just shy of 7500 words after once being over 13700. It's not all bad, many of the parts reshuffled simply haven't been replaced. Cut and paste puts the word count up pretty quickly, and I expect to be back around 13K words pretty soon.

Why do I write? Because the story can't be told any other way. And Gerrold told me that he'd kick my @$$ if I didn't just finish the thing.

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: "There are many stories that I would like to read, but no one has written them yet." Isaac Asimov, asked why he wrote. The cake, to me, would be finishing the d@mn thing. I'd written many short stories in my high school years. Most of them were derivative. Another writer, David Gerrold ("The Trouble With Tribbles" episode of Star Trek TOS) quips, "The first million words that anyone writes are just practice. You may practice finishing the stories, and you may practice selling them, but it is just practice." Then, I started my novel. Back when I was in HS - this the era of Star Wars spoofs - a friend and I had planned such a spoof which never materialized (film is expensive!). I held onto one of the characters in my head for several years and created a separate story around him. I started to write this story, which had a Douglas Adams sort of vibe - guess what I had just read? I became disenchanted with it and, while traveling on a commuter train, started working on a "what if?" story idea. I turned this over in my head for a few weeks, wondering where it would go. Wherever it was going, it wasn't traveling very fast. Then it hit me - my "spoof" character was the catalyst for change in my "What if?" story. It practically wrote itself. Except that you have to sit in front of a typewriter/computer for hours and hours on end. I wrote, I edited and I wrote more. The story developed well, and, sometimes, it even took turns that surprised me. While I wrote, I got married, had kids, moved to a new house (with the family) and did all kinds of other stuff. My Magnum Opus was taking years to complete. And, in fact, with the end in sight (and over 50K words), I read what I had and I decided that it no longer spoke to the time that it would have been finished in. It was a 20 year old story. In the meanwhile, I'd been tossing around a couple of other ideas in my head. So I've started one of those. And it hasn't been without issues. I've edited out major portions twice - once restarting the entire story and then reshuffling the story to fit a new concept/outlook - "Taylor's Mission" is now just shy of 7500 words after once being over 13700. It's not all bad, many of the parts reshuffled simply haven't been replaced. Cut and paste puts the word count up pretty quickly, and I expect to be back around 13K words pretty soon. Why do I write? Because the story can't be told any other way. And Gerrold told me that he'd kick my @$$ if I didn't just finish the thing.

Great story!
Thanx.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Maybe he felt ashamed, or showed-up, like I was rubbing it in his face.

Sometimes the unspoken message is, "Be successful and make your father proud ... but just don't be too successful and make him ashamed of what he might have been but was not."

My only advice is, "Don't give up." My mother didn't publish her first novel until age 92.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-14-2012).]

I don't think what your dad said was that bad. If it was really good, it was probably unbelievable.

I wrote my first short story at around 10 years old. It was somewhere around 12 Microsoft Word pages before I gave up. The first sentence (literally) took me the entire day to write. I sat in front of the computer and wrote it hundreds of different ways until I felt it was perfect. The rest was a bit easier, but it took me an incredibly long time. I was just finished really introducing the characters and plotline into what I felt like was a pretty good deal, when I needed an objective opinion. I gave it to my teacher who believed I wrote it but didn't believe I came up with the idea for the story. It was too inventive I guess. Anyways, I realized when I got home and opened it up again that I didn't want to continue. It was nothing anyone said, but I just didn't enjoy it like I should have. I labored over it. I was too bent on every single word that I knew I'd never produce something I was truly happy with.

So I never really wrote again.

But that's my own deal. It wasn't anything anyone else said, it was that I realized writing wasn't for me, even though I have a very imaginative mind and could cook up some stories. If you want to write, don't blame your failure on your father. Own it. You haven't written since you were a kid because of yourself, and you are the only one holding you back. Your father, your wife, your friends, us... we can't hold you back. You can though. So if you want to write, quit holding yourself back. Do it, and see if it's for you.

I look forward to reading what you produce.

I have written news articles but found myself doing more for less so i gave it away.

Your post reads like a movie script like Joe dirt just kidding but i did think it. Now write a story and a script.

[This message has been edited by Australian (edited 02-14-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: But, man, would THAT be some VERY painful writing. And there would be holes in the narrative that would have to be filled. I would have to tell the whole story. With that comes the very real possibility that it would do irreparable damage to my family. I would definitely become persona non grata in their eyes. I don't think I love writing enough to scandalize the lives of others, but I fear that in one way or another, wether my first project or my 17th, it would all end up being brought out anyway. Because I think it is probably the source from which my desire to write springs. Can a writer write without giving anything of himself? Can he write outside himself?

Harlan Ellison wrote, once, of a particularly good editor, who forced him to looked hard, within himself, and describe explicitly what it was about his fictional (albeit non-fictional) ex-wife, that made her so insane. He wrote that he really didn't want to do that, to go there again (largely because he'd already been in that particular hell), but that it was essential to the story he was trying to tell, and his editor understood that, and so persistently asked the question. Forced him to face it. His story was better (according to him) for her persistence.

So it depends on the story you need to tell. I think everything you write will require something of yourself. (I know it does, of me),

But if the story you need to tell is that important to you, then write it. But look hard, within yourself, and write it well.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Sometimes the unspoken message is, "Be successful and make your father proud ... but just don't be too successful and make him ashamed of what he might have been but was not."

Though, I think a father should love to see thier kid surpass any successes done by themselves.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Though, I think a father should love to see thier kid surpass any successes done by themselves.

In a perfect world, and in a healthy family, yes. But the world is far from perfect, some families are dysfunctional, and some men are too preoccupied battling their own personal demons to be supportive fathers.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-14-2012).]

Similar boat here; I went to school in NYC and was offered an appointment -you could not simply go there- to the NYC H.S. for the arts, whereas I could draw almost anything really good. Well, both parents said no way, you can't make a living at that. Yes, they had my best interest at heart, but still, I've always regretted not going.

As for writing, I'm working on an adventure/fantasy, which happened to start out as a short story! That was 209.000 words ago. It's now a two volume work and will be three when done. Be careful with those short stories they can get away from ya. As for needing firsthand knowledge of pain to write good, I do not believe it is a must-have. If you're creative and intelligent enough -if you're not. don't write- you can get by without it. I've never killed or tortured anyone and still do a job writing about either.

For anyone interested in writing, you must check out the two sites below. On the first one: You can get any question answered, gamma, legal, what the publishers are looking for, anything to do with writing. You can also have your work critiqued and critique others. The second one is for Preditors & Editors. This one has lots of great info including a listing of publishers to avoid. Many exist only to rip off writers!

http://absolutewrite.com

Pred-ed.com

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Growing up, I was quite the short-story writer.

As was I.

quote I still secretly write poetry and lyrics (and then destroy them), but I have not written a story since that day.

One of the few stupid things you've done.

quote I somehow still carry some sort of fear of failure, of not being accepted, of being rejected by someone I respect. And I SO respect the writing community and good writers. That fear of being told i'm not good enough, i'm not one of them, that i'm a fake, is still very strong.

You know what? They feel the same way!

quote Now, I realize that all I have to do is just do. I enjoy writing so much that just doing it to do it is it's own reward. But I also get much pleasure out of others reading (and hopefully liking) my stuff. To me, the money you might make is just frosting. The cake is in the task, and the enjoyment others get out of reading & liking my work.

Even the people who don't like you here read your posts.

quote I am left with wondering if I can start again.

You just did.

quote I have always had a million ideas, as that part of me has never died. I have carried them with me through the years, and played back and forth with them in my mind. They are fertile, longing to be impregnated with life, fleshed out, and born to the world. But I guess that fear is still pretty strong, becouse I cannot seem to start. I grab a pen or a keyboard, and immediately think about my Father. Maybe that’s where I need to start. With my Father. But, man, would THAT be some VERY painful writing. And there would be holes in the narrative that would have to be filled. I would have to tell the whole story. With that comes the very real possibility that it would do irreparable damage to my family. I would definitely become persona non grata in their eyes. I don't think I love writing enough to scandalize the lives of others, but I fear that in one way or another, wether my first project or my 17th, it would all end up being brought out anyway. Because I think it is probably the source from which my desire to write springs.

So, just make it fictionalized enough to keep them from getting hurt. If they do, they know the truth, sometimes that hurts.

quote I am completely torn, although the desire remains strong in me. But the complexity of the fear I feel keeps me cowering in the shadows, longingly peering outward. What is it about skeletons in a closet that makes them so restless? What real hold do they have on us? Can a writer write without giving anything of himself? Can he write outside himself?

You've lived an "interesting" life, and have a gift for describing it well. Tell your stories, even if it turns out to be "Fred from Sheboygan" as the main character. Don't worry about what your Dad, or anybody else, thinks about it.

They can't hurt you.

Only you can hurt you.

quote Originally posted by Francis T: As for needing firsthand knowledge of pain to write good, I do not believe it is a must-have. If you're creative and intelligent enough -if you're not. don't write- you can get by without it. I've never killed or tortured anyone and still do a job writing about either. http://absolutewrite.com Pred-ed.com

In order not to be misunderstood, I don't mean pain is a neccessity, but it can be a great inspiraton. It can create more of a need to write or draw or make music. By pain I mean things as simple as a relationship break up, loss of someone, rough childhood, rejection, loneliness, traumatic event,etc.

quote Originally posted by Zeb: You've lived an "interesting" life, and have a gift for describing it well......

Well, you have always been very kind to me.

Ya' know, in relation to all the posts you have written me over the years, I often wonder how different, how great, how wonderful my life would have been if I would have had you by my side as a friend, always encoraging me, helping me put things in perspective, supporting me.
There would have been no limits to how high I could have gone.

You could have really changed my life.
I think that gift may be the greatest of all.
The ability to lift others up to their true potental.
What a wonderful thing that is.
It makes me very proud to know someone like that, to know you.
Thank you.

With all my heart I hope that all the young people just starting out in life will find such a person as you, to help them find all the greatness within themselves and to open up all the magic this life has to offer someone who is willing and confident enough to just grab aholt' and hang on to a dream.
They will then be in for the ride of their lives.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 02-14-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Well, you have always been very kind to me. Ya' know, in relation to all the posts you have written me over the years, I often wonder how different, how great, how wonderful my life would have been if I would have had you by my side as a friend, always encoraging me, helping me put things in perspective, supporting me. There would have been no limits to how high I could have gone. You could have really changed my life. I think that gift may be the greatest of all. The ability to lift others up to their true potental. What a wonderful thing that is. It makes me very proud to know someone like that, to know you. Thank you. With all my heart I hope that all the young people just starting out in life will find such a person as you, to help them find all the greatness within themselves and to open up all the magic this life has to offer someone who is willing and confident enough to just grab aholt' and hang on for the ride of their lives.

Thats awesome, Zeb, what a dude!
Hey boon its not too late.

Consider that Ernest Hemingway, a writer you may have heard of, spent most of his adult life trying to please his father by undertaking "manly" activities rather than following the "sissy" pursuit of writing. Somehow Hemingway managed to turn those experiences into lasting landmarks of American literature. We all have compelling stories to tell; only a few have the skill and persistence to tell them well. Just do it!

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Growing up, I was quite the short-story writer. Acclaimed at school, I was encouraged to keep it up. I showed a story I was quite proud of, to my Father. His response? "Bullsheet, who'd you steal that from?" I ripped it up & never wrote another story. I was SO hurt that I had finally done something all my own, and it meant nothing to him. I quit school soon after that.

Writers should never write solely for validation or accolades. There will always be critics. Writing is a soulful endeavor, not a competition. Sure, praise is nice..

Ask yourself this..would you still write if you knew no one would ever read it? If your answer is yes, you should be a writer (amateur or otherwise).

quote I still secretly write poetry and lyrics (and then destroy them), but I have not written a story since that day.

Don't destroy them! If you want a place to post your work, and workshop it (optional), let me know. I am a member and curator of a poetry site.

quote Now, I realize that all I have to do is just do. I enjoy writing so much that just doing it to do it is it's own reward. But I also get much pleasure out of others reading (and hopefully liking) my stuff.

Exactly. And remember, art is subjective. One person's opinion, negative or positive, does not define a piece of art..(yes, writers are artists. They create something from nothing.)

quote I am left with wondering if I can start again. I have always had a million ideas, as that part of me has never died.

You answered your own question. Of course you can start again. Do it for no one but yourself.

quote Maybe that’s where I need to start. With my Father. But, man, would THAT be some VERY painful writing. And there would be holes in the narrative that would have to be filled. I would have to tell the whole story.

I am a poet, but I do write prose as well. There is one thing I have discovered..art is often subversive, risky, and cathartic. I define poetry as "the unspeakable, spoken anyway". If you don't want to hurt or alienate family, write an allegory or just change names and settings.

quote Can a writer write without giving anything of himself? Can he write outside himself?

Yes. There are different types of writing, and different reasons for it. I have written for hire, and had restrictions on subject matter, length, and content.

But when I write for myself, anything goes. It may be fiction, non fiction, or some combination of the two. But it's always me..it has to be truthful.

Let me also note this..all writers are different. This is just my perspective. To sum it up..I want to encourage you to write again. Don't put pressure on yourself. Just start writing and see where you go.

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: In the meanwhile, I'd been tossing around a couple of other ideas in my head. So I've started one of those. And it hasn't been without issues. I've edited out major portions twice - once restarting the entire story and then reshuffling the story to fit a new concept/outlook - "Taylor's Mission" is now just shy of 7500 words after once being over 13700. It's not all bad, many of the parts reshuffled simply haven't been replaced. Cut and paste puts the word count up pretty quickly, and I expect to be back around 13K words pretty soon.

Got to love "cut and paste!" Back to over 9700 words!