Have you noticed that any adult male that has any interaction around kids is always looked at as a possible pedophile? It didn't use to be that way, but it sure is now.

You see I am a 29 years old. I own a home and have been spending a lot of time working on my front yard lately. The next door neighbor has two young girls, one is 6 and the other 10. They have decided I am their new best friend. Well sorta, every time I come out to work on the yard they show up. And they sit around for hours and talk to me as I am working. I am polite and listen to their stories about school, bullies, kitty cats, etc. However I can not help but feel a bit awkward. Due to the media pumping it into our heads that any guy around a child is pedophile, I feel thats how the other neighbors might see me as. So I honestly try to avoid interaction with them, and when they ask to see my backyard, etc, I decline. But in my heart I know this is not right. I am not a pervert or a pedophile in any manner, but I still feel I get judged as one.

Growing up, my friends and I did exactly what these girls are doing. We bugged every neighbor on the block. But back then no one raised an eyebrow. Sadly that is not the world we live in today.

Two things brought me to make this post. First off there was a listing for a job, it was a booth at a kids fair, and they said they would prefer a female for the position as they would be in contact with a lot of children (so I would have to assume they think its unsafe to have a guy around lots of children). And second, the 10 year old neighbor girl sent me a friend request on facebook, sadly its just not something I am remotely comfortable in accepting. Even though 99% of my facebook posts are way G rated, I couldn't see having a young girl as a friend online.

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[This message has been edited by DeLorean00 (edited 08-24-2011).]

It is sad. I do not friend any of my daughters friends on Facebook, and I do not let my youngest daughter have friends over unless my wife is present.

Jim

Kinda related, and I didn't read it, but I saw a news link yesterday that was titled something to the effect of "Sexual assault and the presumption of male guilt".

The days we live in...

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: It is sad. I do not friend any of my daughters friends on Facebook, and I do not let my youngest daughter have friends over unless my wife is present. Jim

God Jim. I couldn't even imagine being a dad of young girls. I have heard lots of stories of men getting their lives ruined by confused or complete lies of events that never took place. Its a shoot first ask questions later approach to anything involving children.

But the worst part is, you and I both know, we are not sickos, we are avoiding enriching children's lives for fear of speculation. I can tell you hands down some of the best people that my sister and I knew growing up were the fathers of our friends. To this day I still hang out with one of my childhood friends dads. Heck I saw him today.

[This message has been edited by DeLorean00 (edited 08-24-2011).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Kinda related, and I didn't read it, but I saw a news link yesterday that was titled something to the effect of "Sexual assault and the presumption of male guilt". The days we live in...

Quick search led me here...

I'm not going to copy/paste the article, but dear god does it make me sick.

Ask the kids to bring their parents when they want to see the backyard.

I drive a school bus and I can't get hugs from the kindergartners.

quote Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: I drive a school bus and I can't get hugs from the kindergartners.

REALLY? Sigh. I am ready to check out of this world.

quote Originally posted by DeLorean00: God Jim. I couldn't even imagine being a dad of young girls. I have heard lots of stories of men getting their lives ruined by confused or complete lies of events that never took place. Its a shoot first ask questions later approach to anything involving children. But the worst part is, you and I both know, we are not sickos, we are avoiding enriching children's lives for fear of speculation. I can tell you hands down some of the best people that my sister and I knew growing up were the fathers of our friends. To this day I still hang out with one of my childhood friends dads. Heck I saw him today.

I will qualify my original statement with this. There are some lifetime friends, mostly church people, and those girls can come over. I'm talking about her school friends or neighborhood kids where I do not know the parents. I must also admit, in all fairness, I do not let my kids (boys and girls) go to other peoples houses unless I have met their parents, and been in their home.

Jim

It's honestly one of the primary reasons I didn't pursue a teaching degree. I actually wanted to teach History, as my major was History, yet when I was taking the preliminary courses for secondary education (that's standard grade school teaching, if you didn't know) in college, one of the things we were told - specifically as males - is that we had to be EXTREMELY careful how we conducted ourselves because any act of kindness could be considered "coming on" or to that nature to female students. They said it was particularly bad for my age group (25-26 at the time).

Yet the problem is your taught to be kind and fair as an adult instructor to set a positive example.

It made for a very difficult situation. I didn't mind having to deal with disabilities, as when I myself was in high school I personally volunteered to help out friends with physical and mental disabilities, but that talk was one of the big reality checks for me. Not that I was scared I couldn't conduct myself, because I know I can, but simply afraid that ANY possible thing COULD have blown up into something that it completely was not and would have likely got me sued somehow (since everyone nowadays seems to be on a fit of suing people). The problem is that fear shouldn't exist. And after having spoken with a multitude of my male classmates a few were in the same boat and even two others decide then to not pursue secondary education instruction.

Yes, it is a difficult world.

Don't use "pedophile". Be non-prejudicial (and politically correct) and use "minor-attracted"..!

OK, I just saw that for the first time earlier today: "minor attracted".

Sounds like a good time for a barbecue and invite the parents over.
Hmm no one comes over when I'm working in the yard, hmm no one comes over when I'm out in the yard. I guess I should put some pants on.

I saw the confusion and hurt in a little girls face one time years ago when I had my two boys at a park and I was pushing them on swings and she asked me if I could push her and I had to tell her that she probably ought to get her mom, who was on a cell phone sitting on a bench, to push her.
Of course she didn`t understand and I silently cursed the fact that I had to feel that I couldn`t innocently push her on the swing because it might have been wrongly perceived.

It does not pay to not have a hat-mounted video camera running any time you are near ANYONE in today's age...

Only one of the MYRIAD reason nobody should be on facebook. Email and telephones is all I need to stay in contact with other humans I need to talk to... now you have to worry about whether you should friend your kids' friends? Ridiculous.

So much for being able to live your life and do no harm.. you are suspect just by being alive and near kids that are not your own. Hell, that ARE your own.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 08-24-2011).]

If you're a man, you're guilty. They'll figure out what later.

The demographic "white male property owners" would today be referred to as "racist pedophile rapist profiteers."
All it takes is an accusation to destroy your life. The court of public opinion will do it's job regardless of what the court of law does.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 08-25-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: If you're a man, you're guilty. They'll figure out what later. The demographic "white male property owners" would today be referred to as "racist pedophile rapist profiteers." All it takes is an accusation to destroy your life. The court of public opinion will do it's job regardless of what the court of law does.

That's why it is best, just to be safe, not to talk to, smile at, or even look at a female of ANY age unless absolutely necessary (like she's your boss or something). Don't interact with kids, male or female. In this lawsuit-happy culture of ours, guys are now walking lawsuits (or criminal suspects) waiting to happen.

IMHO, in most crimes, the burden of proof is on the accuser. You say I did it, it's up to you to prove it.

However, sex crimes in general and child molestation in particular are an exception to that rule. It's more often than not the responsibility of the accused to prove he DIDN'T do it. In today's climate, one is guilty until proven innocent.

If one's innocent, how does one prove a negative?

I think that this whole issue has A LOT to do with the community that one lives in. In a large wealthy community in California, I feel, would be a lot more likely to accuse a male, than say a small town farming community in Kansas.

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1986 SE V6 Auto. 114K miles.
1995 F-150 4.9l Straight 6, Port and polished head, oversize valves, mild cam.

OMG tell me about it Ellie's niece has a nice boyfriend, who has a 7 year old daughter. She is outrageously flirty with men...but to HER she is just being friendly. She wants to hold hands, sit on your knee, muss yer hair up... Well, we were at Ellie's workplace for her birthday, and Ciara decides she is going to sit on my lap. I have NEVER been so scared in all my life I felt every eye in the restaurant was on ME, watching my every move. I had to sit with my hands on the table, and not hug here like I would normally do. I eventually asked Ellie in Dutch to ask her Dad to call her to his side. The look of hurt on that little girl's face as she did so tore me apart.
But you know, the truth is, there have ALWAYS been child molesters (I suffered too many times in my childhood and early teens to know that is the truth ), but I seriously doubt it is that much more prevalent NOW than it was 50 years ago. It is the blasted MEDIA sensationalising everything which is BAD in our World, and convincing us that it is Sodom and Gommorah times TEN now.
I honestly believe that ANYBODY who molests a child and has been proven to have done so, should be exterminated. Over. Done.
Something happens in say, Germany, for want of a name, and it is blazened across the WORLD'S Media, and eventually we begin to think it has happened in our back yard, along with all the other reports that appear daily.
It is all well and good to keep peoples' awareness as keen as possible...but to make ENTERTAINMENT out of NEWS is morally and disgustingly unneccessary. And spreads disillusionment , fear and suspicion. Keep our children SAFE, and help us to do so...BUT STOP PRINTING SCARE STORIES. Blasted Media is destroying us all...

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 08-25-2011).]

quote Originally posted by BlackEmrald: I think that this whole issue has A LOT to do with the community that one lives in. In a large wealthy community in California, I feel, would be a lot more likely to accuse a male, than say a small town farming community in Kansas.

It's the same here as anywhere. I think Delorean hit the nail on the head. It's a messed up world.

I have a couple of cousins that have no father figure in their lives. I would love to be able to do more to "guide" them away from the jerks they will most likely be attracted to, but any "special" attention I give to them is suspect in todays world.

I know personally of two different guys that were accused of being a pedophile, and the charges were later dropped. Their lives were destroyed, and both moved away from here. The crap is everywhere.

Brad

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: ... there have ALWAYS been child molesters ... I seriously doubt it is that much more prevalent NOW than it was 50 years ago.

Quoted for truth. Then as now, most victims already know their abusers ... family, friends, etc. The "evil stranger" does exist, but is a less common source of abuse.

One big difference is that our modern media in general, and the Internet in particular, provide vastly expanded opportunities for contact with "evil strangers" than did the local park or playground of the past. Of course, the park or playground facilitates immediate physical access while the Internet does provide some initial protection against such physical contact.

The "evil stranger" threat definitely does exist, though. I have friends whose 10 year old son was abducted from a neighborhood playground, transported a hundred miles, and, miraculously, was found alive about a week later. The ex-felon pedophile had abducted him and several other boys with the promise of a Peter Pan style adventure. Out of respect for the family's privacy I won't say any more.

quote It is the blasted MEDIA sensationalising everything which is BAD in our World, and convincing us that it is Sodom and Gommorah times TEN now.

I disagree. Don't blame the messenger. I think it's more that our European and North American societies are finally willing to acknowledge the problem and more-or-less openly discuss it. In many other societies in the world today the subject is still taboo.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 08-25-2011).]

Yes, it was much better when ignorance was bliss
pedophiles ALWAYS existed. and, more so when they could get away with it

but - the assumption of the male intent to "soil" any girl he can get alone goes back to before this nation was even "the new world". in fact - it goes back to before there were Jews. It goes back to before - well - as long as there have been men & women. Dont be buffalo'd by 50's & 60's sanitized media & propoganda. when this nation was formed, the age of consent was 10. TEN years old.

but - yes - I fully grasp the "ignorance is bliss" of the 50's & 60's. but - that was "head in the sand" - not the reality of some kind of "magical days of rainbows & unicorns". everyone was to worried about "the commies & the bomb" to worry about whether Chester has dingled their kids. he did.

Talk to the girl's parents. Get to know them and let them get to know you. Have a BBQ or something. I do not like the fact that our society has gotten so suspicious. You should be careful but avoiding the girls will only make them think they did something wrong and they didn't. The more you try to shy away, the more it looks like you have something to hide. Confront the issue head on

I just got back from the park with my 3.5 y/o daughter. There was a dozen day-care/preschool kids there, as there always is at this time of day. Usually I show up with my daughter and get approving smiles from any parents/caretakers.

This time though, we had been outside doing yard work when a couple of neighborhood kids not much older than mine came along and started playing with my daughter. I was almost done my work when the three of them ran off to the park at the end of the street. It was within sight, so I let it be, finished what I was doing and went to the park a couple of mintes behind her. I had to look around for a moment find her amongst all the other kids.

Boy did the caretakers ever stare at/watch me closely. No approving smiles today!

Olldy enough, this thread had been on my mind when the two other kids started playing with my daughter. I can't blame them for behacing like I was supicious, considering I was in semi-grubby working clothes, unshaven, and dripping with sweat when I walked up and started looking over all the kids...and I'm kinda glad to know they would have looked out for my kid if they felt they had to, but on the other hand, I'm pretty sure if I had been a woman, they wouldn't have looked twice at me.

Maybe next time it happens, I should just run in, snatch my kid up and run off with her to see what they'll do?

quote Originally posted by Stubby79: No approving smiles today!

Besides your grubby appearance, that fact that you didn't arrive with her was probably a big factor in the scrutiny you received. Appearance does matter.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 08-25-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Stubby79: I just got back from the park with my 3.5 y/o daughter. There was a dozen day-care/preschool kids there, as there always is at this time of day. Usually I show up with my daughter and get approving smiles from any parents/caretakers. This time though, we had been outside doing yard work when a couple of neighborhood kids not much older than mine came along and started playing with my daughter. I was almost done my work when the three of them ran off to the park at the end of the street. It was within sight, so I let it be, finished what I was doing and went to the park a couple of mintes behind her. I had to look around for a moment find her amongst all the other kids. Boy did the caretakers ever stare at/watch me closely. No approving smiles today! Olldy enough, this thread had been on my mind when the two other kids started playing with my daughter. I can't blame them for behacing like I was supicious, considering I was in semi-grubby working clothes, unshaven, and dripping with sweat when I walked up and started looking over all the kids...and I'm kinda glad to know they would have looked out for my kid if they felt they had to, but on the other hand, I'm pretty sure if I had been a woman, they wouldn't have looked twice at me. Maybe next time it happens, I should just run in, snatch my kid up and run off with her to see what they'll do?

What?! Are you trying to get shot/arrested? They'll ask questions later, after the APB.

Just more reinforcement for me not wanting children. I went 35 years without a child, and without this kind of situation. I have nieces, but they go home at the end of the day and its totally none of my responsibility except to spoil them rotten any chance I get. (Thats just revenge on my sister, really. She was a BAD kid.)

My wife feels the same way, not only is it economically unfeasible to have children in this age since every spare dollar we make goes to bills.. but the fact that everyone is in your biz at all times, scrutinizing your every public move... nah.. let the "Village" raise somebody else's kid, I'm through with others telling me how to live my life, especially how to raise and behave around my own kids. I'll just exercise some restraint, help with the population problem and offset some of those crazy-ass Quiver people.

Its a different world. When I was a child, acting up at the store got you swatted. That happens nowadays, you explain to the police why some busybody on aisle 3 heard you disciplining your child and called 911.

I am a firm believer in "Spare the Rod, spoil the child." This country is unfortunately proof of that old adage. Although, now and then, you do see a parent lean forward and whisper in a child's ear at the store when they are misbehaving.. I can't hear what they say, but I bet it's a "promise" for later. Usually shuts them right up.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 08-25-2011).]

Welcome to my world
I teach elementary school and spend more time with the kids than a lot of them spend with their own families. When I taught kindergarten and second grade, the kids and I would become very close and I referred to them as 'my children'. When one of my second graders found out in the middle of the day that she was moving and would not be back the next day, this kid starts crying and grabs my arm. She says "Please don't make me leave. I am tired of moving all the time. Take me home with you and let me be your kid." I could have pried her off my arm and pushed her away and added even more pain to a broken heart, or get down on my knees and wipe away her tears. The reason for the sudden move was the mother's abusive ex-boyfriend had found them and the kid's mother feared for their safety so they were moving out of state. Since it was her last day, when we went to lunch, we walked 'arm in arm' and I escorted her like a father would walk his daughter. That afternoon, I was questioned about what I had done earlier that day.
Its a sad world we live in these days.

quote Originally posted by Cooter: Since it was her last day, when we went to lunch, we walked 'arm in arm' and I escorted her like a father would walk his daughter. That afternoon, I was questioned about what I had done earlier that day.

Bless you Sir for manning up. It is a mans job to do what he can to mitigate the pain of others around him. (That is part of my "man definition".)

quote Originally posted by Cooter: Welcome to my world I teach elementary school and spend more time with the kids than a lot of them spend with their own families. When I taught kindergarten and second grade, the kids and I would become very close and I referred to them as 'my children'. When one of my second graders found out in the middle of the day that she was moving and would not be back the next day, this kid starts crying and grabs my arm. She says "Please don't make me leave. I am tired of moving all the time. Take me home with you and let me be your kid." I could have pried her off my arm and pushed her away and added even more pain to a broken heart, or get down on my knees and wipe away her tears. The reason for the sudden move was the mother's abusive ex-boyfriend had found them and the kid's mother feared for their safety so they were moving out of state. Since it was her last day, when we went to lunch, we walked 'arm in arm' and I escorted her like a father would walk his daughter. That afternoon, I was questioned about what I had done earlier that day. Its a sad world we live in these days.

+1 for you cooter... touching story, you da man.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 08-26-2011).]

I would not have brought a kid in a private place alone either. But, for the most I will love and parent anykid, anyplace. I will discipline and praise strangers children, help a kid to the fountain after getting a scrape or, offer to repair something I see broken on a bicycle. Again, never in a private location unless they are close, like family.

The most uncomfortable moments are in the mens room when a small boy somehow is going to use the restroom and there is no parent to help them balance on the seat. The boy looked so desperate.....I kept the door open and prayed that anyone that looked understood.

quote Originally posted by Cooter: Welcome to my world I teach elementary school and spend more time with the kids than a lot of them spend with their own families. When I taught kindergarten and second grade, the kids and I would become very close and I referred to them as 'my children'. When one of my second graders found out in the middle of the day that she was moving and would not be back the next day, this kid starts crying and grabs my arm. She says "Please don't make me leave. I am tired of moving all the time. Take me home with you and let me be your kid." I could have pried her off my arm and pushed her away and added even more pain to a broken heart, or get down on my knees and wipe away her tears. The reason for the sudden move was the mother's abusive ex-boyfriend had found them and the kid's mother feared for their safety so they were moving out of state. Since it was her last day, when we went to lunch, we walked 'arm in arm' and I escorted her like a father would walk his daughter. That afternoon, I was questioned about what I had done earlier that day. Its a sad world we live in these days.

I just read this read this whole thread, and this post almost brought my grown man self into tears. Cooter I only wish I could give you more then one "+". Thank you for being a good person. Screw what people think, you DID the right thing. Now can you go coast to coast and teach people your ways?

And thank you all for your posts. I almost felt awkward making this thread. But I really felt it was something that needed to be discussed, I find comfort that I am not the only one that feels this way. But also I am deeply saddened we are powerless to change it.

And then there's THIS...

Group of psychiatrists wants to redefine pedophilia to promote tolerance