SOCIAL SECURITY IS BROKE/Formula88 is 100%correct
democrats long ago raided The SS treasury,& placed worthless U.S.Bonds in place of cash,spent the money on Social programs
we owe China a trillion $$$ they are first in line to be paid,, before SS
the money is spent,down the welfare Drain

Americans insist, demand, fight for products to be manufactured over sea,s
No one HATE,s ,detest,despise,loathe the little guy like american,s this is killing us.

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 08-23-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: That's right. I didn't say any of those things. Nor did I intend to. I said exactly what I ment to say. No more & no less.

You said you bet it gets fixed "like it always does."
Unless I'm reading it wrong, that means you expect it to be fixed in a similar way to previous budget issues. That would be with more borrowing and more debt. More borrowing and debt by definition means using other people's money, the only question is if/when the OPM gets paid back with interest.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: The question cost is moot to "The Big Picture".

That is just not true.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: The closed door deals and manipulations at the "Word Bank" level is where the "cost" is really being calculated, in very frightening terms. But the average day-to-day person never really thinks about it on that level, now do they? But that would be watching the correct hand.

Actually, many do think in that realm. Define a day to day person. I am day to day but I am also longer term.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: The "cost" we think we have control of is really of little consiquence beyond each of our own little worlds. But it sure do keep us busy and occupied.

Hmm, ... think of cost as steps in a plan. There are things I have done that I never would have thought I would have accomplished. Things of consequence. Until I broke it down to individual costs (be it money, time, or effort). It does keep me busy and occupied.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: This day-to-day & year-to-year government happenings & misstidings are all just "busywork". The real happenings are on a decade scale.

The same can be said about our lives and how we choose to live them. Even the simple act of savings is a daily chore that pays off in decades.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Nothing in government ever gets done promptly; it's ALWAYS last minute, and all most always when all other options have expired.

Interesting statement. The same can be said about the lives of many people. Those would not be the more successful people. You might ask, "what can we do about government ?" It is as hard as saving daily but it also pays off. It is not just an election day chore.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: We have & do send very young men to die for some very questionable reasons. Maybe the greatest cost of all, be damned.

Questionable reasons ? The same was said by some before the American Revolution, the Civil War, and other such endeavors. Freedom is never free.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Weighing "The Cost" beforehand is like watching the WRONG hand of The Illusionist. It is never where the lie happens.

Actually, heh, I can end this post as I began it.
That is just not true.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 08-23-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: You said you bet it gets fixed "like it always does." Unless I'm reading it wrong, that means you expect it to be fixed in a similar way to previous budget issues. .

I ment "like THINGS always does" when it comes to government.
Not just budget issues.

My whole point is they always play this same "doomsday" game right up to zero hour.
And then they pull the fat out of the fire.
It's all a game of missdirection & control.
By a "machine" FAR above our realization and interaction or effect.

The proof of how sucessfull this game this "machine" plays is that eventhough they have been doing it forever, they are so sucessful at it that even you don't see the patteren, and you're really smart.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 08-23-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: As with ALL my posts I write with my OWN hand (not cut-and-past from the internet from other sites) it is my OWN opinion, and only just that. Not fact, not truth, OPINION. Calling an opinion "not true" is just silly. A more intellligent & correct response would be "I dissagree with your opinion.".

I also write with my own hand and am not a cut and paste guy. Calling an opinion "not true" is in itself an opinion which does mean that I disagree with yours. Wherein we have basis to evaluate each others opinion. We don't have to debate it, ... I don't care if you are wrong, , j/k.
I do though appreciate your opinion and giving me your time for it.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Calling an opinion "not true" is in itself an opinion which does mean that I disagree with yours..

Stating "Not true" means the only other option is "True".
That makes "Not true" a statement of fact.

More correct would be 'I BELIEVE that is not true"
THAT'S an opinion.

An opinion does not require "truth" to be what it is, unlike a "fact".

"De gustibus non disputandum"

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I ment "like THINGS always does" when it comes to government. Not just budget issues. My whole point is they always play this same "doomsday" game right up to zero hour. And then they pull the fat out of the fire. It's all a game of missdirection & control. By a "machine" FAR above our realization and interaction or effect. The proof of how sucessfull this game this "machine" plays is that eventhough they have been doing it forever, they are so sucessful at it that even you don't see the patteren, and you're really smart.

Seeing the pattern and having the ability to change the pattern are not the same thing.
And they never do pull the fat out of the fire. They just pile on more fat to replace what gets burned off, then turn up the heat.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Stating "Not true" means the only other option is "True". That makes "Not true" a statement of fact.

Not at all. You're assuming there are only two choices, one must be true and the other false. There may be many choices, and any number of them may be false. Even if given only two choices, they still may both be false.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: An opinion does not require "truth" to be what it is, unlike a "fact".

Is that your opinion, or are you stating a fact?

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 08-23-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Is that your opinion, or are you stating a fact?

Ok, I would have to say that is only an "opinion" (although I believe it is a fact).

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 08-23-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Stating "Not true" means the only other option is "True". That makes "Not true" a statement of fact.

Using that reasoning, stating ...

quote The question is moot to "The Big Picture".

... sounds like a statement of fact.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: More correct would be 'I BELIEVE that is not true cost is moot to the Big Picture".

quote Originally posted by tbone42: Life expectancies, I believe, are now on the way back down. At least by generation.. Gen X was the apex, people of gen Y and later (is there anything after gen "why?" ????) are dying sooner. Looks like we hit our peak with Gen X, who woulda thunk it?

I agree that we're on our way back down. Most of us can't afford to go to the hospital anymore.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: That's right. I didn't say any of those things. Nor did I intend to. I said exactly what I ment to say. No more & no less.

Whether you say it or not, makes no difference in the real world.

As far as you having a choice on how to bet, you "had" a choice, but that hand was played long ago. Now, it's double down on SS or the $1 bet on Powerball.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Stating "Not true" means the only other option is "True". That makes "Not true" a statement of fact.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Using that reasoning, stating ...

quote The question is moot to "The Big Picture".

quote Originally posted by cliffw: ... sounds like a statement of fact.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: More correct would be 'I BELIEVE that is not true cost is moot to the Big Picture".

As I have said many many times, there should be no confusion about what I SOUND like, as everything I always post in my own hand is only my OPINION.
NOT FACT.
OPINION.

(Just a reminder: An opinion does not fall under the judgment parameters of true or false. But you are still free to agree or disagree with an opinion.)

Just to make it easier for you in the future, everything I post in my own hand (not cut & paste, which should never ever be considered my words or opinion, as by their very nature (i.e. "Cut & Paste") are not, but mearly a "relay" of information) is only my opinion.
My opinion should NEVER be considered as anything other then that.

If you are ever confused, you could just ask if what I wrote is an opinion or fact, but I can asure you ahead of time, it is only an opinion.
Not a fact.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Ponzi schemes never work. Now, we are starting a new one. ObamaCare. The young pay for the old, just like Social Security.

Didn't the 'Old' pay for the VERY Old though?Does that mean that the 'Old' people who paid all their working lives for the 'Very Old' have no right, or expectation, that THEY should be 'looked after', just as they looked after THEIR generation of 'Old'?. You can't blame the People for the shortfall...blame each and every Government who stuck their greedy little hands into the cookie pot, until they were all gone.

The scheme would have worked pretty well, until the Governments of the US and UK started handing out (stolen) pension money to all and sundry around the World.
Good LORD above... Heaven forbid that the 'Old' should expect the 'young' to go without their iphone 5, 3D plasma TV, Wii games consoles etc etc just to survive

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 08-23-2011).]

quote Originally posted by carnut122: I agree that we're on our way back down. Most of us can't afford to go to the hospital anymore.

Pretty much.
If you get cancer, you better have $100,000 for just one course of treatment.
That price is just for the drug alone.
I'll just die, thank you very much.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: WASHINGTON — The price of Seattle Genetics Inc's blood cancer drug Adcetris could top $100,000 for a course of treatment, becoming the latest cancer medicine to come at a high cost. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration Friday gave its nod to Adcetris, the first drug specifically indicated for anaplastic large cell lymphoma (ALCL) and the first one approved for Hodgkin's lymphoma since 1977. Seattle Genetics Monday said the drug will cost $4,500 per vial. In its clinical trials, the company said, patients on average received three vials per dose and between seven and nine doses per treatment. The total price would then generally vary from $94,500 to $121,500 per patient, within Wall Street's expected range. "Seattle Genetics' decision to price Adcetris north of $100,000 seems to be causing some concern in the investment community following the recent failure of Dendreon's Provenge to live to up to sales expectations," said Morningstar Inc analyst Lauren Migliore. Adcetris is the latest cancer drug to hit the market with a hefty price tag to the discontent of patient groups. Earlier this month, Dendreon Corp lost two-thirds of its market value when it could not deliver on promised sales of its prostate cancer vaccine Provenge, which costs about $93,000 per course, as doctors weren't confident enough about getting reimbursed. I think you get a reason for pushback (against highly-priced cancer drugs) because many of these cancer drugs are really not that effective, but in this case I think it's one of the most effective drugs out there," Leerink Swann analyst Howard Liang said of Adcetris. "I would think that the pricing is high but it's not outrageous compared to other cancer drugs." In March, U.S. regulators approved Bristol Myers Squibb Co's Yervoy for patients with advanced melanoma, a deadly skin cancer. A course of treatment with Yervoy costs about $120,000. Earlier in August the FDA approved another melanoma drug, Zelboraf by Roche Holding, which costs about $56,400 for a six-month course of treatment. "Life science companies are aware of the debt and deficit situation in Washington, D.C., and that indirectly limiting Medicare and Medicaid drug prices could be on the horizon," said Ipsita Smolinski, senior health policy analyst at Capitol Street. For Adcetris, however, the patient population is generally younger and so more likely to rely on private insurance than federal programs, making the pricetag less controversial, analysts said. About 9,000 Americans a year are diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma and 3,000 with ALCL. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id...92/ns/health-cancer/

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: Didn't the 'Old' pay for the VERY Old though? Does that mean that the 'Old' people who paid all their working lives for the 'Very Old' have no right, or expectation, that THEY should be 'looked after', just as they looked after THEIR generation of 'Old'?.

Do two wrongs make a right ?
Actually, Social Security was set up as a grand vision of a promise. When in fact the draw out age was near natural death. The premise was that we were to get back what we paid into it (minus interest). Many people got nothing and gooberment kept that money. I can not agree that the old or young payed for the very old. Until the money was depleted by gooberment and the fund had to be financed by the younger populace.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: This being a discussion board, you and I can expect to be challenged on opinion or facts.

Challenge an opinion?
How does one defend an opinion, and why would one want to attempt to?
How do you prove an opinion?

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 08-23-2011).]

The Earth was believed to be flat. It was an opinion that it was not.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: The Earth was believed to be flat. It was an opinion that it was not.

Eh, you win.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 08-23-2011).]

i just had my 6th back surgery, i have a bad spine and am on too many medds ot work.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Eh, you win.

It's not about winning. With discussion, we all win. I actually win when I am wrong, because I have been enlightened.