Cars? Politics? Hobbies? I'll just put it in General since it could go just about anywhere.

http://www.reuters.com/arti...dUSN1E77I0Z820110819

quote New GM said not responsible to fix Impala made by old GM NEW YORK, Aug 19 (Reuters) - General Motors Co (GM.N) is seeking to dismiss a lawsuit over a suspension problem on more than 400,000 Chevrolet Impalas from the 2007 and 2008 model years, saying it should not be responsible for repairs because the flaw predated its bankruptcy. ... But in a recent filing with the U.S. District Court in Detroit, GM noted that the cars were made by its predecessor General Motors Corp, now called Motors Liquidation Co or "Old GM," before its 2009 bankruptcy and federal bailout. The current company, called "New GM," said it did not assume responsibility under the reorganization to fix the Impala problem, but only to make repairs "subject to conditions and limitations" in express written warranties. In essence, the automaker said, Trusky sued the wrong entity. "New GM's warranty obligations for vehicles sold by Old GM are limited to the express terms and conditions in the Old GM written warranties on a going-forward basis," wrote Benjamin Jeffers, a lawyer for GM. "New GM did not assume responsibility for Old GM's design choices, conduct, or alleged breaches of liability under the warranty."

So, you'll find an "Old" GM dealership where? Convenient.
And to think I was just saying today that while I didn't want to buy a "Government Motors" car, I would still consider a pre-bailout car. I guess I'll have to revisit that.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 08-20-2011).]

Been waiting for that to hit the news. It's been in the courts for a while, in litigation looking for a compromise. From what was said even way back right after the bankruptcy, anything liability cases filed prior to the June 1 09 bancruptcy announcement, would be doubtful in it's outcome. They did agree to cover known warranty matters but anything else--well "poof!" I guess.

Perhaps the vehicle owners should now sue the majority owners of GM which is still US Treasury and UAW unless there's been an addition to the initial stock IPO.

It's one of the reasons I reneged on my promise to buy Jane a Solstice--I just didn't trust GM to make things right should something go wrong after they dumped Pontiac, and is why a recent GM product is STRICTLY off the list of products for me to buy in the future. I still don't trust them.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 08-21-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Cars? Politics? Hobbies? I'll just put it in General since it could go just about anywhere. http://www.reuters.com/arti...dUSN1E77I0Z820110819 So, you'll find an "Old" GM dealership where? Convenient. And to think I was just saying today that while I didn't want to buy a "Government Motors" car, I would still consider a pre-bailout car. I guess I'll have to revisit that.

This is just ridiculous. You ****ed up; you fix it. I knew there was a reason I'm a Ford guy. A Fiero will be the first and last GM product I will ever buy.

[This message has been edited by ThatFieroKid (edited 08-21-2011).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I just didn't trust GM to make things right should something go wrong after they dumped Pontiac, and is why a recent GM product is STRICTLY off the list of products for me to buy in the future. I still don't trust them.

Sadly, I have to agree with you. I've considered a GTO or G8 in the future, but now I don't know.
Looks like Ford is in my future.

SON'T CLICK THE LINK IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ THE POLITICAL TIE IN TO THIS:

http://wizbangblog.com/2011...fective-old-gm-cars/

Not mentioned in the above article is the fact that (as of last Friday) GM is trading with a market capitalization of $35 Billion and sitting on $30 Billion in cash, so it's not like they can't afford to fix the Impalas.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 08-21-2011).]

Allow me to start a little sheeit here...

Suddenly! Ford is very popular among people who used to use the cute acronym "Found On Road Dead." Because Chevy and Dodge made testosterone levels rise in the past, I find it quite interesting watching so many "manly men" flocking to Fords nowadays.

And not just that...

Fords are still built by "evil union workers" .... hope nobody here with a problem with UAW and other union workers would possibly want to support them. Best just go buy Honda crap instead.

Only half serious... no all the way serious.

Signed,
Proud son of a lifelong Ford employee and UAW member, and brother of another, totalling 67 years of hard work without threatening violence on anyone.

Since I first started driving my own vehicles in 1967, I have owned virtually all Fords with the exception of a 1961 vette, the 3 Fieros, and the only new GM product I ever bought (and the last) a 2008 Silverado. All the rest were Fords, and those Fords far outnumber the GM products I've owned so my preference for Ford is nothing new or even recent. I have never owned or even driven--and never will-- a foriegn brand vehicle.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Since I first started driving my own vehicles in 1967, I have owned virtually all Fords with the exception of a 1961 vette, the 3 Fieros, and the only new GM product I ever bought (and the last) a 2008 Silverado. All the rest were Fords, and those Fords far outnumber the GM products I've owned so my preference for Ford is nothing new or even recent. I have never owned or even driven--and never will-- a foriegn brand vehicle.

You da man, Don. Thank you, for purchasing Fords and helping my family stay fed and sheltered over the years.. especially after the mid eighties, when *gasp* my Dad got a raise. Didn't have to threaten violence on anyone.. regardless of what some might think about "union methods".

I drive an F-150. I will always drive an F-150, if I have it my way. My Fieros.. sure, they're fun, but the truck (knock on wood) runs much more reliably then any of my Fieros.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 08-21-2011).]

quote Originally posted by tbone42: Allow me to start a little sheeit here... Suddenly! Ford is very popular among people who used to use the cute acronym "Found On Road Dead." Because Chevy and Dodge made testosterone levels rise in the past, I find it quite interesting watching so many "manly men" flocking to Fords nowadays. And not just that... Fords are still built by "evil union workers" .... hope nobody here with a problem with UAW and other union workers would possibly want to support them. Best just go buy Honda crap instead. Only half serious... no all the way serious. Signed, Proud son of a lifelong Ford employee and UAW member, and brother of another, totalling 67 years of hard work without threatening violence on anyone.

This one isn't about who is making the vehicles, it's about what happened when the company was no longer able to pay its bills because of poor decisions on a managerial level. It's about the prior shareholders, and what happened to them, and who now owns the majority of the company.

The Unions are another subject/***** .

Brad

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: This one isn't about who is making the vehicles, it's about what happened when the company was no longer able to pay its bills because of poor decisions on a managerial level. It's about the prior shareholders, and what happened to them, and who now owns the majority of the company. The Unions are another subject/***** . Brad

I know Brad, it was only half in response to the subject at hand and statements like:

quote Looks like Ford is in my future.

So I thought it only fair to point out that hey, those are made by Union guys. I thought "we dont like them folks round these parts.."
That, and all my life I heard people insulting Fords, and now they are flocking to them in droves because of ideology, regardless how "shoddy" the reputation was to some in the past.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 08-21-2011).]

@tbone Rest assured there are still many true Ford enthusiasts out there. My family drives Fords almost exclusively. My grandpa worked for Ford at the Maumee stamping plant for 30 years. He has owned many Fords over the years and currently drives a 1986 Towncar and a 2010 MKX. I drive a '97 Ranger. My mother drives a '04 Taurus. My father drives an Edge. My uncle has an Edge. My other uncle has an Edge and a '94 Mustang. My step-brother drives a '06 Mustang. All of them have been very good to us. *knock on wood*

On the other hand, my step dad has a 2008 Grand Prix that is in the shop what seems like every 2 months getting something related to it's computer or sensors worked on. My step mom has a PT Cruiser which although is a nice car it's been eating up a lot of money getting the suspension, brakes, thermostat, and power steering worked on the past few months.

Edit: spelling

[This message has been edited by ThatFieroKid (edited 08-21-2011).]

Don't get me started on what's wrong with my Silverado--just 11,000 miles out of warranty.

On the other hand ---TBone--I bought a new 1975 Mercury station wagon, that the gas gauge didn't work from day 1. Took the dealership 3 months to get another one in and I was there when they took the sending unit out of the tank. Some &#@*&# had bent the float rod into a pretzel shape when putting it in at the plant and the gauge always read Full. Musta been a Friday car.
Didn't matter--I couldn't afford much gas back in those days anyway.

That, was the last Merc i ever bought.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Musta been a Friday car. Didn't matter--I couldn't afford much gas back in those days anyway. That, was the last Merc i ever bought.

hahahahaha... absolutely know what you mean.

I don't buy new cars, never had one. My newest car was a 1999 Saturn.
IF I do pick up another GM platform it will be one that I can support with aftermarket products. I haven't paid over $10000 for a car yet (all at once)

Does this also mean that since the cars were purchased from "old GM", that people can stop sending car/lease payments to "new GM"? Didn't think so

Just curious here, when you foreign car haters think about imports, do you just think about Honda's? Or does Ferrari, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Aston Martin, and Volkswagen with its stake in Lamborghini, Bentley, Audi, and Bugatti come into the mix as well? Because those manufacturers have clearly produce cars that IMHO are far superior than anything America has produced since the GT40. I am not a domestic hater by any means (duh, I'm on a Fiero forum) I just don't know why people think all imports are horrible. Hell I'd buy me up a Honda if I had the money. Just yesterday I was at the Woodward dream cruise and a guy was giving me and my buddy a thumbs down and calling his brand new Nissan 370Z "Jap Crap". What a moron. "I'm an auto worker" he said. Well so are the people that made this car, dumb***.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Been waiting for that to hit the news. It's been in the courts for a while, in litigation looking for a compromise. From what was said even way back right after the bankruptcy, anything liability cases filed prior to the June 1 09 bancruptcy announcement, would be doubtful in it's outcome. They did agree to cover known warranty matters but anything else--well "poof!" I guess. Perhaps the vehicle owners should now sue the majority owners of GM which is still US Treasury and UAW unless there's been an addition to the initial stock IPO. It's one of the reasons I reneged on my promise to buy Jane a Solstice--I just didn't trust GM to make things right should something go wrong after they dumped Pontiac, and is why a recent GM product is STRICTLY off the list of products for me to buy in the future. I still don't trust them.

Which is why I bought the Minni Cooper last week instead of the Cobalt SS sitting right beside it....the Cobalt was 2/3rd the price and a NICE ride.....but I dont trust GM

quote Originally posted by tbone42: Allow me to start a little sheeit here... Suddenly! Ford is very popular among people who used to use the cute acronym "Found On Road Dead." Because Chevy and Dodge made testosterone levels rise in the past, I find it quite interesting watching so many "manly men" flocking to Fords nowadays. And not just that... Fords are still built by "evil union workers" .... hope nobody here with a problem with UAW and other union workers would possibly want to support them. Best just go buy Honda crap instead. Only half serious... no all the way serious. Signed, Proud son of a lifelong Ford employee and UAW member, and brother of another, totalling 67 years of hard work without threatening violence on anyone.

I think I better go and pop the popcorn.

They never taught economics in high school around here. They've phased out home ec, music, art, in many cases phys ed. Our schools are no longer creating well rounded citizens, they are only creating minimum wage candidates. It's politics and economics. And I think it's a shame.

quote Originally posted by kwagner: Does this also mean that since the cars were purchased from "old GM", that people can stop sending car/lease payments to "new GM"? Didn't think so

Unless you financed the car directly from GM then you are not paying GM your paying a bank.

quote Originally posted by USFiero: They never taught economics in high school around here. They've phased out home ec, music, art, in many cases phys ed. Our schools are no longer creating well rounded citizens, they are only creating minimum wage candidates. It's politics and economics. And I think it's a shame.

Yeh, it is....I have a girl on staff, 25 years old, fresh out of school as a gas fitter......when she started, she didnt even know what a multi-meter was. She is smart, very smart, and will end up as one hell of a good tech---but I had to start her training from scratch. I dunno what the frack the school taught her, but it was nothing to do with electricity or mechanics---and last time I looked, gas furnaces still had electric motors and blowers and electricity and mechanicals in them.....so what good was that school?

quote Originally posted by spud321x: Just curious here, when you foreign car haters think about imports, do you just think about Honda's? Or does Ferrari, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Aston Martin, and Volkswagen with its stake in Lamborghini, Bentley, Audi, and Bugatti come into the mix as well? Because those manufacturers have clearly produce cars that IMHO are far superior than anything America has produced since the GT40. I am not a domestic hater by any means (duh, I'm on a Fiero forum) I just don't know why people think all imports are horrible. Hell I'd buy me up a Honda if I had the money. Just yesterday I was at the Woodward dream cruise and a guy was giving me and my buddy a thumbs down and calling his brand new Nissan 370Z "Jap Crap". What a moron. "I'm an auto worker" he said. Well so are the people that made this car, dumb***.

Personally I would probably never buy a Ferrari, Aston, etc as they are far from being a realiable car - sure they may be nice, but al of the people I know that own one - well lets just say that the cars seem to require a lot of service (and expensive at that).

The only import brands I would consider buying right now is: VW Golf TDI or a Volvo.

As for the "Jap" cars, while they seem to be a decent car, probably would not own one as I really don't think they are really worth the extra dollars that you have to pay for one.

Besides, right now I would rather that my money stay in North America. This garbage from GM is just that, really sad they they feel they need to wash their hands of the stuff they built before the bailout - but then I also probably wouldn't buy another of their product - but that is mostly because they don't make anything that is of interest to me and have been looking at Ford as well for my next car.

The new company did not assume the general liabilities of the old company. The judge should issue a summary judgment and dismiss the case.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: The new company did not assume the general liabilities of the old company. The judge should issue a summary judgment and dismiss the case.

Yes, true.....but if the new company wants sales and customers, they better damn well be nice, or the people will purchase elswhere..I did, and I could care less what happens to the "new GM"...let 'em loose market share and go bankrupt....they already screwed me and my family once, they wont do it a second time. (there is a reason I gave my money to BMW, my brother ditched his Silverado and bought a Ridgeline, my sis got rid of the sunfire and now drives an <eww> honda and dad is selling his Buick. EFFF them if they cant look after customer...

quote Originally posted by spud321x: Just curious here, when you foreign car haters think about imports, do you just think about Honda's? Or does Ferrari, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Aston Martin, and Volkswagen with its stake in Lamborghini, Bentley, Audi, and Bugatti come into the mix as well? Because those manufacturers have clearly produce cars that IMHO are far superior than anything America has produced since the GT40. I am not a domestic hater by any means (duh, I'm on a Fiero forum) I just don't know why people think all imports are horrible. Hell I'd buy me up a Honda if I had the money. Just yesterday I was at the Woodward dream cruise and a guy was giving me and my buddy a thumbs down and calling his brand new Nissan 370Z "Jap Crap". What a moron. "I'm an auto worker" he said. Well so are the people that made this car, dumb***.

quote I have never owned or even driven--and never will-- a foriegn brand vehicle

I suppose, as I am the one that said I have never bought, owned or driven a foreign vehicle and never will, that this question was directed toward me--and those few like me. Never being one to shy away from answering a question:
I am sorry, that you can't understand those few words, and even more saddened that you can't see it has nothing to do with quality, but rest assured, I say what I mean and mean what I say, with no buts, ifs, reservations, clauses or anything else and my integrity has no chance of being bought off by a name or speed or even a long standing brand like Lambroghini or BMW.
Placed my life on the line for this nation and what it stands for--for 9 long years--shot at, shot up--shot down, and ya think I would then turn around and spend my money time and effort to support another nation's economy if I have a choice in the matter? As John Wayne said in The Searchers, and Buddy Holly said later:



I try hard to follow this ideal in all I do--not always possible, but I try.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/075380.html

Now, go forth, and be curious no more.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: "New" GM says your problem with your car built by "Old" GM isn't their problem

That's the way bankruptcy works (and has always worked) in the U.S. Bankruptcy suspends most, if not all, liabilities of an individual or business. The individual or business may choose to affirm (honor) some liabilities, such as a home mortgage, but they generally are not required to do so. A few specific liabilities, such as taxes due, cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.

quote Originally posted by USFiero: They never taught economics in high school around here. They've phased out home ec, music, art, in many cases phys ed. Our schools are no longer creating well rounded citizens, they are only creating minimum wage candidates. It's politics and economics. And I think it's a shame.

Think they only teach everyone to be teachers!
And if you decide on something else, you just wasted your time, and most of your youth.

[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 08-21-2011).]

And is one of the reasons they chose to accept the govt's (Rattner's) offer.

Wasn't there commercials on TV during the transition telling about how the new GM would honor previous warranties and would be backed by the federal government and that people did not need to worry about their GM purchase?

quote Originally posted by kwagner: Does this also mean that since the cars were purchased from "old GM", that people can stop sending car/lease payments to "new GM"? Didn't think so

^ I second this. ^

quote Originally posted by spud321x: Just curious here, when you foreign car haters think about imports, do you just think about Honda's? Or does Ferrari, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Aston Martin, and Volkswagen with its stake in Lamborghini, Bentley, Audi, and Bugatti come into the mix as well? Because those manufacturers have clearly produce cars that IMHO are far superior than anything America has produced since the GT40. I am not a domestic hater by any means (duh, I'm on a Fiero forum) I just don't know why people think all imports are horrible. Hell I'd buy me up a Honda if I had the money. Just yesterday I was at the Woodward dream cruise and a guy was giving me and my buddy a thumbs down and calling his brand new Nissan 370Z "Jap Crap". What a moron. "I'm an auto worker" he said. Well so are the people that made this car, dumb***.

Ill buy almost anything that strikes my fancy at the time. When you say imports I think asian. I love european cars for the most part, just stay away from ones with quirks like Jags electronics. Your imports (ie Asian) are Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Kia, etc. Even if theyre made in the US (ie Acura) the profit money goes to a guy in Japan or Korea, and as of now I have no interest in ever owning one of those. If I HAD to pick a fav brand, Id go with Chrysler vehicles since Ive had very few problems with any of them ive owned in 50 years. Ford is a very close second. For the most part, any GM I bought was a money pit in the end. The exception, and there always is one, is the Fiero/Ferrari kit I had. It was prob the most trouble free car I had for the 7 years I owned it. In a few more years my Sebring I drive now will surpass that as long as it dont have any problems in the near future. All its needed from 05 is a couple of batteries and a heater blower switch. Only maintanence has been oil changes (10K synthetic). Still has original tires, brakes etc at 95,000 miles and looks and runs like new.

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: Unless you financed the car directly from GM then you are not paying GM your paying a bank.

Was GMAC included? I don't remember. My complaint still stands regarding a lease, though.

[This message has been edited by kwagner (edited 08-21-2011).]

quote Originally posted by kwagner: Was GMAC included?

Good question- My mortgage is with them.

quote Originally posted by kwagner: Was GMAC included? I don't remember. My complaint still stands regarding a lease, though.

At the time of bankruptcy, I'm pretty sure GMAC had been mostly spun off or divested from by what is now "Old GM".

As the IPO approached and was implemented, the New, Wonderfully Trustworthy, Great, and To-Be-Gladly-Welcomed-Back-Into-Our-Hearts-And-Wallets GM has since reacquired a big stake in GMAC (under a different name than GMAC) .

Here's how it works. GM filed bankruptcy and shed IT's liabilities and responsibilites------------Those customers with leases DID NOT file and get to walk off scott free from their own liabilities and responsibilities---Just GM. (lease holders aren't a big enough voting block for Rattner and the Govt to worry about)

Didn't Chrysler do this too when they filed and got bought by that 'investment group'?

Not saying its right, but with 2 of the big 3 screwing us...

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I suppose, as I am the one that said I have never bought, owned or driven a foreign vehicle and never will, that this question was directed toward me--and those few like me.

It wasn't directed at anyone in particular Mr. Maryjane . It was directed at the group of people on here who seem to always dog on an imported vehicle. And it was just a question about what comes to mind when they think "imports". Me and my friends always seem to get the "still have a job? keep buying foreign" attitude from nearly every domestic car enthusiast owner. Our buddy, who was also at the dream cruise yesterday, parked with the Mopar guys down the road a bit and we called him up to see if there was any spots available (we wanted to see some different cars at the other end of Woodward). "Nope! Only spots for Mopar's down here" he said. Huh, the Nissan club my buddy is part of parked with a Mazda Rotory Club. We had a Volkswagen bug and a Prowler parked with us. No hate coming from our end. *Shrugs*

Please continue the Foreign v. Domestic discussion here.
Let's keep this thread specifically about New GM v. Old GM.

Thank you.

.
moved as requested.

Old vs New? Old GM became toxic due to--well we all know the story, with plenty of blame to share.

New GM, now toxic to most here due to the way they chose to do business accross several gray lines.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 08-21-2011).]