yes the teapuppets will be the cause of the depression with their idiot spikestrips
their dogma demands a bus be stoped and sending the bus over a cliff will stop it [at the bottom] never mind there are better ways to stop a bus with out killing all the riders on the bus
teapuppets do not even understand the big picture or want to that is the problem they will throw the spikes and cause the crash even if not needed as their dogma demands crashes and then try to spin off the blame on to others
Wow, sounds like the mantra of the far left to me. Especially the four last lines.
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02:26 PM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
I was thinking the same thing about the tea party house members.
9 months later, they have accomplished next to nothing except character assasination and dredging up fear and anger, and taking one week off for every 2 worked. I think most Americans can actually see their leadership qualities are no better, and even worse in some cases, than the current administration. And that's more time than the Tea Party ever gave Obama before protesting, so in the spirit of American impatience, I say to them: You have done no better, and only further hurt our country with your unwillingness to compromise and zero-hour shannanigans.
So here come the negs and insults, but its how I feel - a conclusion I came up with without anyone forcefeeding me their ideas and telling me what to think. That's as valid as anyone else.
Hard to accomplish much when you don't even control 1/3 of the government. After the next election you can either pound your chest, or have a nice plate of crow. Personally the Tea Party is not my cup of tea because of the fact they take little or no stance on social issues. But they do have there place.
Hard to accomplish much when you don't even control 1/3 of the government. After the next election you can either pound your chest, or have a nice plate of crow. Personally the Tea Party is not my cup of tea because of the fact they take little or no stance on social issues. But they do have there place.
I doubt there will be any chest pounding here, regardless of the outcome. I don't roll that way. Every victory is also a defeat, no matter who wins, somone loses. If its seen as a win for neither party, but for America (and not just based on Rhetoric) then I might be happy... but thats not the way politics in this country work anymore.
[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 09-01-2011).]
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02:34 PM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
I doubt there will be any chest pounding here, regardless of the outcome. I don't roll that way. Every victory is also a defeat, no matter who wins, somone loses. If its seen as a win for neither party, but for America (and not just based on Rhetoric) then I might be happy... but thats not the way politics in this country work anymore.
Well we can agree that the system is broken!
Though I am far far right, I have enough sense to know it must be ruled somewhere near the middle. And radicals are not the middle, though many claim to be.
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03:22 PM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
Getting back to the original topic....propaganda works...for a while
If you want to secure power or limit sharing it with others then demonizing the opposition is the first order of business for those who can not stand on the merits of their beliefs.
If you truly beleive your rhetoric you can debate it in an honest manner without having to invent facts or twist reality to suit your agruement.
Once you begin spinning facts then you are lost. Propaganda is the stop gap in trying to convince people of something they do not beleive. The Tea Party appeals to a majority of Americans and gained immediate popularity from day one. The result is that those who see thier power base being threatened by the will of the people use their power to deominize the Tea Party to help push down its popularity and hopefull destroy it completely becasue the have no ideas to stand on.
Terms like racists, tea baggers, kooks, etc prove the point. If you need to resort to calling a group by derogatory labels you lose.
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03:36 PM
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KidO Member
Posts: 1019 From: The Pacific Northwest Registered: Dec 2003
Getting back to the original topic....propaganda works...for a while
If you want to secure power or limit sharing it with others then demonizing the opposition is the first order of business for those who can not stand on the merits of their beliefs.
If you truly beleive your rhetoric you can debate it in an honest manner without having to invent facts or twist reality to suit your agruement.
Once you begin spinning facts then you are lost. Propaganda is the stop gap in trying to convince people of something they do not beleive. The Tea Party appeals to a majority of Americans and gained immediate popularity from day one. The result is that those who see thier power base being threatened by the will of the people use their power to deominize the Tea Party to help push down its popularity and hopefull destroy it completely becasue the have no ideas to stand on.
Terms like racists, tea baggers, kooks, etc prove the point. If you need to resort to calling a group by derogatory labels you lose.
Though I am far far right, I have enough sense to know it must be ruled somewhere near the middle. And radicals are not the middle, though many claim to be.
I agree with most of that except the last part seems like a convenient way to discount anyone claiming to be a moderate that you may just not like for some of their liberal ideas. I lean left, no secret, but I do not claim to be a liberal. Some ideas are beyond my liking. And there's a long littany of things conservatives support and condemn that makes me scratch my head, too.
What defines someone in the middle? I think (if there is a definition) it would be somone who not only supports and condemns ideals on both sides of the aisle, but someone who is dedicated to compromise in the best interests of our country.
I will say this, although I know we disagree on things, I am happy that you always seem to afford me respect. That's a good start toward the middle, in my opinion, and you have mine.
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04:00 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
No, it doesn't. Dogs are supposed to wag the tail, the tail is not supposed to wag the dog.
If an idea can not stand on it's merits then "marketing" it better will not change that. The exception is when you buy a novelty. People will spend a buck on something useless and lame just for novelty factor. Other than that, when can you recall buying something expensive just because it had a cool ad? You probably researched it first to make sure it had good reliability, value, etc.
Ideas are no different.
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04:24 PM
KidO Member
Posts: 1019 From: The Pacific Northwest Registered: Dec 2003
No, it doesn't. Dogs are supposed to wag the tail, the tail is not supposed to wag the dog.
If an idea can not stand on it's merits then "marketing" it better will not change that. The exception is when you buy a novelty. People will spend a buck on something useless and lame just for novelty factor. Other than that, when can you recall buying something expensive just because it had a cool ad? You probably researched it first to make sure it had good reliability, value, etc.
Ideas are no different.
You missed my point...
I agree with you comments on propaganda, but in saying "it works both ways", I am referring to propaganda from the other side (Tea Party, Republicans, The Right).
You talk about demonizing... Have you seen the pictures of Obama as Hitler to support Tea Party views?
You talk about name calling... Have you ever seen or heard a derogatory term used when a Tea Party member is referring to someone whose political beliefs are different than theirs?
I'll say it again, it goes both ways. You say the "The Tea Party appeals to a majority of Americans and gained immediate popularity from day one." Why is that? Although I disagree with it appealing to a majority of Americans, I would feel comfortable saying that the many it does appeal to bought into the propaganda. From it's origins, the Tea Party set out to vilify it's enemy. The Tea Party, and the politicians it has supported have been just as guilty of the rhetoric that you abhor from the left. Why is it OK for one, but not the other?
[This message has been edited by KidO (edited 09-01-2011).]
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06:37 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
You talk about demonizing... Have you seen the pictures of Obama as Hitler to support Tea Party views?
You talk about name calling... Have you ever seen or heard a derogatory term used when a Tea Party member is referring to someone whose political beliefs are different than theirs?
No, I haven't.
I have read stories about liberal plants showing up at Tea Party functions to startt trouble. I have seen a handful of nuts out of the million and million of Tea Party supporters uttering insane blabberings. But I have seen not one picture endorsed by the Tea Party call Obama Hilter. I have not read one comment by Tea Party officials that would be described as racist. And, to the contrary, I have read MANY statements by the Tea Party condemning racism in any form, and disassociating themselves with tasteless and confrontational statements from people claiming to be asscoiate with the Tea Party
And, regrettably, I have not seen those statements in as bold type as the original comments. Nor have I seen the media give time to the Tea Party to make those distinctions clear.
I have read stories about liberal plants showing up at Tea Party functions to startt trouble. I have seen a handful of nuts out of the million and million of Tea Party supporters uttering insane blabberings. But I have seen not one picture endorsed by the Tea Party call Obama Hilter. I have not read one comment by Tea Party officials that would be described as racist. And, to the contrary, I have read MANY statements by the Tea Party condemning racism in any form, and disassociating themselves with tasteless and confrontational statements from people claiming to be asscoiate with the Tea Party
And, regrettably, I have not seen those statements in as bold type as the original comments. Nor have I seen the media give time to the Tea Party to make those distinctions clear.
So you actually believe that political party is morally and ethically better than the other???
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 09-01-2011).]
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06:59 PM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
I have read stories about liberal plants showing up at Tea Party functions to startt trouble. I have seen a handful of nuts out of the million and million of Tea Party supporters uttering insane blabberings. But I have seen not one picture endorsed by the Tea Party call Obama Hilter. I have not read one comment by Tea Party officials that would be described as racist. And, to the contrary, I have read MANY statements by the Tea Party condemning racism in any form, and disassociating themselves with tasteless and confrontational statements from people claiming to be asscoiate with the Tea Party
And, regrettably, I have not seen those statements in as bold type as the original comments. Nor have I seen the media give time to the Tea Party to make those distinctions clear.
Again, this works both ways, and we could argue backand forth all day long, neither of us convincing the other. There are nuts on both sides. Unfortunately in our society it's those nuts that get all the attention. That is why groups like the Tea Party may not endorse a picture of Obama as Hitler, but they certainly aren't screaming in the streets that it is wrong either. Does their silence mean that they condone the actions of these few nuts? There are many here on this forum that have and continue to use pictures of the President as the Joker, or Hitler. If someone wanted to spend a little bit of time, you could find many posts where these same individuals used derogatory terms when describing others without their same political views. These same people then claim to be proud supporters of the Tea Party!
So maybe Dick Armey and Matt Kibbe aren't out on the street handing out autographed posters of Obama as Hitler, but they aren't stopping others from using this tactic. In fact, they are using it to their advantage to attract more like minded people to their cause! So endorse it? No, but they sure as hell are supporting it.
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09:10 PM
PFF
System Bot
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
So you actually believe that political party is morally and ethically better than the other???
Just because it is called "the Tea Party" does not mean it is a Political Party. It is a grass roots advocacy group. They are not a Party like the Democrats or Republicans. They do not have Candidates or a convention etc.
They are just a bunch of Americans fed up with big brother interfering with their lives and I can't blame them
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09:24 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27075 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Originally posted by KidO: So maybe Dick Armey and Matt Kibbe aren't out on the street handing out autographed posters of Obama as Hitler, but they aren't stopping others from using this tactic.
And just *how* are they supposed to stop it?
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09:27 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Again, this works both ways, and we could argue backand forth all day long, neither of us convincing the other. There are nuts on both sides. Unfortunately in our society it's those nuts that get all the attention. That is why groups like the Tea Party may not endorse a picture of Obama as Hitler, but they certainly aren't screaming in the streets that it is wrong either. Does their silence mean that they condone the actions of these few nuts? There are many here on this forum that have and continue to use pictures of the President as the Joker, or Hitler. If someone wanted to spend a little bit of time, you could find many posts where these same individuals used derogatory terms when describing others without their same political views. These same people then claim to be proud supporters of the Tea Party!
So maybe Dick Armey and Matt Kibbe aren't out on the street handing out autographed posters of Obama as Hitler, but they aren't stopping others from using this tactic. In fact, they are using it to their advantage to attract more like minded people to their cause! So endorse it? No, but they sure as hell are supporting it.
I'm not trying to convince you. I jsut answered your questions. I have seen nothing in any Tea Party rallys that is racist, disrespectful, or hostile. I HAVE, on the other hand, seen LOTS of hostility, disrepect, and racism from Tea Party Haters.
Just stating the facts
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09:27 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27075 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Originally posted by tbone42: I was thinking the same thing about the tea party house members.
9 months later, they have accomplished next to nothing except character assasination and dredging up fear and anger
Wow, that is COMPLETELY false. The Tea Party Republicans have come up with THREE different pieces of legislation to deal with the deficit and debt.
1. Balanced Budget Amendment
2. Paul Ryan Budget Plan
3. The "Mack penny plan", which is a 1% reduction in spending that would balance the Federal Budget in 6 or 8 years.
They also fought the debt ceiling increase. Continuing to raise the debt ceiling is not sustainable. They also put up a package of budget cuts. Most of the above were immediately rejected by the Democratic led Senate, and vetoed by President Obama. Meanwhile, the Democrats had complete power for TWO YEARS and they didn't even make a proper Federal Budget.
So no, you cannot say that the Tea Party Republicans didn't do anything, because that statement is provably false. And the only character assassination has been aimed AT the Tea Party, being called "racists" (with NO supporting proof), tea baggers, red necks, TERRORISTS and so on.
[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 09-01-2011).]
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09:35 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27075 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
I'm not trying to convince you. I jsut answered your questions. I have seen nothing in any Tea Party rallys that is racist, disrespectful, or hostile. I HAVE, on the other hand, seen LOTS of hostility, disrepect, and racism from Tea Party Haters.
In our system it is fine for the citizens to vilify the politicians. It is fine for politicians to vilify each other. But when the politicians vilify the citizens, that is third world dictator style politics. Should scare the crap out of everyone, but some are drawn to this mentality, as long a it isn't them that the politicians are attacking. Go figure..
[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 09-01-2011).]
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10:15 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27075 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
But when the politicians vilify the citizens, that is third world dictator style politics. Should scare the crap out of everyone, but some are drawn to this mentality, as long a it isn't them that the politicians are attacking. Go figure..
If the politicians vilify the citizens, our Republic is lost. When the people are the enemy of the state, it's a dictatorship.
Just because it is called "the Tea Party" does not mean it is a Political Party. It is a grass roots advocacy group. They are not a Party like the Democrats or Republicans. They do not have Candidates or a convention etc.
They are just a bunch of Americans fed up with big brother interfering with their lives and I can't blame them
Who was it that was mentioning propaganda and those who swallow it hook line and sinker?
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11:19 PM
Sep 2nd, 2011
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
The US economy created no jobs and the unemployment rate held steadily higher at 9.1 percent in August, fueling concerns that the US is heading for another recession.
It was the first time since World War II that the economy had a net zero jobs created for a month.
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10:27 AM
PFF
System Bot
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35467 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
I'm not trying to convince you. I jsut answered your questions. I have seen nothing in any Tea Party rallys that is racist, disrespectful, or hostile. I HAVE, on the other hand, seen LOTS of hostility, disrepect, and racism from Tea Party Haters.
Just stating the facts
I can appreciate you answering my questions, but you do know that your opinion does not constitute fact?
I have seen plenty from Tea Partiers that is racist, disrespectful and hostile, and like yourself, have also seen these same actions from the left. Do these actions represent the view of these groups as a whole, or just the view of a select few? I don't have the answer to that, but it is my hope that it is just a select few from either side.
This however is just my opinion.
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11:27 AM
KidO Member
Posts: 1019 From: The Pacific Northwest Registered: Dec 2003
Normally one would say that folks migrate to those who share their same ideals, but the propaganda thing seems to be the name you prefer.
Maybe if you had looked a little deeper you would have noticed that my use of the term propaganda was in response to another post. I would like to say that I have bought into no ones propaganda and consider myself a free thinker, capable of making a decision on my own after doing my own research. Politically, I have never voted strictly one side or the other. My political views are what I would consider middle of the road. I tend to stay away from the extremes from either side. However, my experience on this forum is that anyone who does not delcare support soley for the right must be left. I guess people have difficulty with shades of gray.
A while back, I was regularly posting in O/T in the political threads, then I realized that it fit Alber Einsteins definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I still read the posts regularly, and yesterday I guess I just couldn't help myself.
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11:40 AM
KidO Member
Posts: 1019 From: The Pacific Northwest Registered: Dec 2003
You do realize that a person could simply do a google search and find articles supporting the exact opposite? Oh wait, no you don't, those articles aren't true because they don't fit in your view of the world.
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11:42 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27075 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
You do realize that a person could simply do a google search and find articles supporting the exact opposite? Oh wait, no you don't, those articles aren't true because they don't fit in your view of the world.
My view of the world has nothing to do with it. The articles I posted ARE TRUE because they have VIDEO showing that these people said what was quoted.
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11:45 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27075 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Then it should be easy for you to provide us with specific examples. Proof, please?
Like I said in my response to partfiero, arguing politics in here is Insanity! People keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.