The markets, in spite of the exchanges implementing Rule 48 this morning, took a nose dive due to several concerns.
Manufactoring is down again, Consumer Price Index increased the most since March, new unemployment requests rose back to the 400,000+ mark last week, and the Fed has now expressed concerns that more banks in the US are in dire straits, especially those with exposure to Euro banks. Analysts also downgraded the short term (2011-2012) global growth outlook to 1.5%--down from the 3.4% they had hoped for.
-"Actual" unemployment - near or over 20% (Those who arent working+ stopped looking) -Teenagers and college grads have bleak job prospects. -Less stuff being made in US -Less people needed to make the stuff we DO make
Things need to be maintained (roads, electrical, sewer systems) and built, but I just don't see how things are going to get better if there are more and more people, and less and less stuff for them to DO...
The Global economy helps COMPANIES more then countries, long term. The 'Information age' has consequences
We are seeing so many different areas dying out and being replaced by "Digital" versions - which seems great, but there' s less people who need to create the digital content, less people involved with the production, shipping, and selling of the content....
I wonder when we'll see the 'automatic brakes' be used when the market declines too greatly...
[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 08-18-2011).]
well...no $hit....nothing has changed in the last 10 years to fix what was broken way back in the Clinton years. "the economy" will continue to degrade down to level of those who do our production.
The markets, in spite of the exchanges implementing Rule 48 this morning, took a nose dive due to several concerns.
Yeah the sky was falling two weeks ago, and then the number went back up. Now they are down again, but its one day. One day. And every time Wall Street has a bad day, people here cry and bemoan the situation, but no one cheers or danced a jig after it shot back up last week, did they? That happened without any fanfare.
So, today, the "Sky is falling' again. We'll see how it pans out. What choice do we have?
And now, some history. (My favorite)
The Dow hit 2000 in 1987. Investors at the time (I happen to know a wall street trader from that period) were amazed and impressed, and NO ONE thought it would go much higher. Now in the realatively short span of 24 years, the Dow Jones Industrial Average skyrocketed, at one point, to 14,000. (Mostly of the growth came between 1992-2000) Historical perspective leads me to say this... it IS amazing its so HIGH still. It was felt among many that the number have been inflated for a long time once we passed 10k, and the 13-14k area may be hard to reach ever again.
Most all of that amazing growth came during the Clinton Administration and we are at the same levels again from around the end of his presidency.
Not sure, but can we always expect economic growth? I would say no, especially with so many US companies that outsourced jobs over the last 15 years. Thats paycheck money no longer in this country. Lots of it.
[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 08-18-2011).]
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12:56 PM
Old Lar Member
Posts: 13797 From: Palm Bay, Florida Registered: Nov 1999
Yeah the sky was falling two weeks ago, and then the number went back up. Now they are down again, but its one day. One day. And every time Wall Street has a bad day, people here cry and bemoan the situation, but no one cheers or danced a jig after it shot back up last week, did they? That happened without any fanfare.
So, today, the "Sky is falling' again. We'll see how it pans out. What choice do we have?
And now, some history. (My favorite)
The Dow hit 2000 in 1987. Investors at the time (I happen to know a wall street trader from that period) were amazed and impressed, and NO ONE thought it would go much higher. Now in the realatively short span of 24 years, the Dow Jones Industrial Average skyrocketed, at one point, to 14,000. (Mostly of the growth came between 1992-2000) Historical perspective leads me to say this... it IS amazing its so HIGH still. It was felt among many that the number have been inflated for a long time once we passed 10k, and the 13-14k area may be hard to reach ever again.
Most all of that amazing growth came during the Clinton Administration and we are at the same levels again from around the end of his presidency.
Not sure, but can we always expect economic growth? I would say no, especially with so many US companies that outsourced jobs over the last 15 years. Thats paycheck money no longer in this country. Lots of it.
It wouldn't matter much, if every company that was ever in this country--was still here today. I know tha's hard to fathom, but there is way more than enough manufactoring, transportation and service sector business in this country to keep up with anyone's growth.
Perhaps later today, I will post my thoughts on this matter, and they go back about 5 decades, and the events that took us to the top and then back down are undisputable, and thhose events were inevitable--and--neither libs nor republicans were at fault. No--I am not referring a "normal long term business cycle". Tho they do take place--they are irrelevant re what has happened here with this nation's economy.
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02:03 PM
carnut122 Member
Posts: 9122 From: Waleska, GA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
-"Actual" unemployment - near or over 20% (Those who arent working+ stopped looking) -Teenagers and college grads have bleak job prospects. -Less stuff being made in US -Less people needed to make the stuff we DO make
Things need to be maintained (roads, electrical, sewer systems) and built, but I just don't see how things are going to get better if there are more and more people, and less and less stuff for them to DO...
The Global economy helps COMPANIES more then countries, long term. The 'Information age' has consequences
We are seeing so many different areas dying out and being replaced by "Digital" versions - which seems great, but there' s less people who need to create the digital content, less people involved with the production, shipping, and selling of the content....
I wonder when we'll see the 'automatic brakes' be used when the market declines too greatly...
I have to agree with you. All these companies that are wanting the economy to head upwards are many of the same companies that sent people to the unemployment lines. Any way you cut it, unemployed/ underemployed/ minimum wage people buy "needs" not "wants." It's a race to the bottom from here.
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09:52 PM
carnut122 Member
Posts: 9122 From: Waleska, GA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
The Dow hit 2000 in 1987. Investors at the time (I happen to know a wall street trader from that period) were amazed and impressed, and NO ONE thought it would go much higher. Now in the realatively short span of 24 years, the Dow Jones Industrial Average skyrocketed, at one point, to 14,000. (Mostly of the growth came between 1992-2000) Historical perspective leads me to say this... it IS amazing its so HIGH still. It was felt among many that the number have been inflated for a long time once we passed 10k, and the 13-14k area may be hard to reach ever again.
Yep, it was like the 1920's all over again. Many lived large on the paper profits made on Wall Street. Unfortunately, the party is over, and we're stuck in the thirties. Even two wars are not pulling us out of this one.
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09:58 PM
Aug 19th, 2011
spark1 Member
Posts: 11159 From: Benton County, OR Registered: Dec 2002
I think this chart and the comments explain what's going on. The regulations put in place following the last great depression were removed and the historic cycle restarted. The bank bail-out changed the dynamic but we are on very thin ice:
