Are we experiencing an already finished 'masterpiece', one brushstroke at a time?

Dammit, last night was strange. Bad storms on the way home on the bus, I found myself falling asleep for what felt like hours (but was really only a few minutes) I woke up, but not fully. wandered the few blocks home during a lull in the storm, and I just stopped in my tracks. One of the trees outside caught my attention. Not sure why, but I just stopped and started at it, and this one branch. Was going to snap a picture of it but the battery was dead. felt pulled towards it. Very odd sensation. walked a few steps towards it, and the rain started again, so I started again towards our apt. I looked at that tree once more,felt the weird pull,shook it off and went inside. Had some of the most wacky dreams that night, mostly mundane situations in the future. Woke up today, and that damn branch was on the ground. the only branch in sight that fell. Wacky. The branch wasn't cracked or anything, it just was 'pushing at me' yesterday.

Need to try to figure out what those dreams were about. Last time I recall this happening, I couldn't remember the dreams,until I entered the conversations, then I knew both sides of what was going to be said. Happened years ago. Weren't really important or significant conversations, I just overlapped somehow, and knew about them beforehand. I don't pretend to know what the deal is. *shrugs*


No, I didn't dream of lottery numbers last night. (at least I don't THINK I did... )

I feel like I doubt I'll be able to figure out what happened last night, but maybe I'll try to recreate some of the events and record it...maybe also try playing a tape of myself asking me what I'm dreaming about, and see if I answer...

Keep coming back to the whole "singularity" thing lately, most are focusing on how we will develop technology which will do all these fantastic things, but I'm beginning to think we will develop a technology which will allow us to become aware that we are able to tap into our OWN *whatever* and don't need a lot o fthe advanced stuff we are currently dreaming about...it's already inside of us, we just need to know how to open the doors...

"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite.

For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narow chinks of his cavern."

-William Blake


Chained against the wall, tugging against my shackles, I laugh and rage like an insane fool...the others turn and think me mad, and I once again am silent as I resign myself to my fate...click "submit reply", and close the lid of my laptop.

[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 07-31-2011).]

Well, I know that God has it all planned out, and since He exists outside of time, it's all the same to Him. But... can we experience that? I've heard deja vu is electrical stimulation in your brain, connecting pieces together to make you believe that you've seen it all before. However, one time I was talking to a girl, and I knew what was about to happen. Instead of just keeping it to myself, I told her exactly what was going to happen, and it did. Lucky guess? I don't know, but I was wigged out.

There is an interesting book that I read, called God's Debris, which was admitted by the author as a completely experimental book that didn't even reflect his own thoughts. Nonetheless, it was a fun read. I don't want to spoil it for you, but the reason I brought it up is because of the spoiler so... I will. Basically, the premise is that God is all-powerful, could do everything, etc. But, after awhile, He realized he did everything so... He blew himself up. His "pieces" of Himself formed humans. So, we are all little pieces of God. With the creation of the internet and other technology, it presents that the pieces are working together to become "whole" again, to become a "full God" again. As we progress, we have a more singular conscious rather than a set of individuals. Eventually, we become One and form back into God.

Anyways, it was an interesting read, and this reminded me of that because sometimes "weird things" just happen, and I don't know how to explain it. I can explain ghosts by saying they are demons, for example. But stuff like this seems to have no purpose. Why were you drawn to the tree branch before it broke? Why did it matter, if it didn't affect anything? It seems just so wild. Maybe there is no purpose to it, but only a random event that was showing you a piece of your unlocked potential. Like, when superheroes first start using their powers, but they don't grasp it all yet. They just have a few flukes and are left confused.

Interesting.

quote Well, I know that God has it all planned out...

Yet he leaves us enough free will "rope" to hang ourselves with. One thing I know about the lord, he loves a hangin. Thats why he gave us necks.

quote Originally posted by tbone42: Yet he leaves us enough free will "rope" to hang ourselves with. One thing I know about the lord, he loves a hangin. Thats why he gave us necks.

LOL. I can't believe that was allowed on a Nickelodeon show. I love it.

Don't REALLY wanna go to sleep tonight...



Maybe I should check out that branch.

There was a glitch in the Matrix. Go to sleep and be a good little productive sheep..er...citizen in the morning....DONT ASK QUESTIONS.

quote Originally posted by FieroRumor: Don't REALLY wanna go to sleep tonight... Maybe I should check out that branch.

See if you can reattach the branch with your mind. It'll be a useful exercise.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Well, I know that God has it all planned out, and since He exists outside of time, it's all the same to Him. Eventually, we become One and form back into God.

You don't KNOW, Brennan...but you BELIEVE There is an enormous gulf between the two, I admire your Faith, I truly do. But it can be dangerous to have blind faith in ANYthing you can't prove. But that last line proves MY faith in Nature being 'God'. We all die, we all turn to dust, and become One again with from whence we came...Nature. Thanks

Yes.Interesting indeed.
Nick

quote Originally posted by FieroRumor: Keep coming back to the whole "singularity" thing lately, most are focusing on how we will develop technology which will do all these fantastic things, but I'm beginning to think we will develop a technology which will allow us to become aware that we are able to tap into our OWN *whatever* and don't need a lot o fthe advanced stuff we are currently dreaming about...it's already inside of us, we just need to know how to open the doors... "If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narow chinks of his cavern." -William Blake Chained against the wall, tugging against my shackles, I laugh and rage like an insane fool...the others turn and think me mad, and I once again am silent as I resign myself to my fate...click "submit reply", and close the lid of my laptop.

Sometime around 1970 I had stayed overnight with some friends out in an old country farm house. . I awoke early and made some coffee and went out on the front porch to enjoy the quiet and watch the sun rise. Across the road was pasture, with the exception of an ancient chimney atop a slight hill.
As the sun rose the chimney lit up as the sun hit it. I looked alive, lit as it was. I remember thinking I should have brought a camera.
The chimney was stone, flared at the bottom and top, Very artistic and I thought how it had endured when all around it had passed into history and I wondered how old it was.
I became distracted by various birds and creatures, that seemed so apparent away from town.
Then I heard an odd noise and looked around to see what it was. I had about decided that it was someone inside, When I noticed the chimney was gone and a small cloud of dust moved slowly across the pasture like the last ghost of another era leaving.
I didn't see it's end.
but I had heard the sound of the release of energy stored by the men who carried the stones up the ladder to build the chimney.

There was something that seemed magical about these events, lining up, and something disturbing about having seen this alone, with no one there to share the experience.

quote Topic: Has everything already happened?

Yes, it has... but not yet.

What did you eat earlier that day? Could someone have slipped you something?

Haha... just kidding.

Although I believe strongly in Christ, I think a lot of the "experiences" we have that are almost existential, if you will... are very much sparked by our attitudes at the time, the chemical reactions in our head, and the environment. I actually know all too well what you're talking about. Not to belittle your personal experience that you had... but weather can VERY MUCH have an effect on this type of experience as well. Sometimes, after a storm, or early in the morning, you get this almost eirie, but magnificent "atmosphere" if you will. Everything feels very green, heavy, but at the same time, very light. It's almost like you can go out and grab the air, but it's not heavy or congested. Everything is eerily light, and with a greenish aura everywhere (no rainbows). My dad told me many years ago that the Dutch have a specific word for this kind of natural occurance, but he said there was no real translation for the word into English. It really has more to do with barometric pressure, etc, than it does any kind of metaphysical thing going on. But then again, who knows...

I've had that same kind of experience maybe 5 to 6 times in my life... several of which I remember very vividly as a kid. With everything going on around you, you almost feel as if you're not alone wherever it is that you are... really weird.

Still have your goggles?

Brad

Yes, it has. Quit making me repeat myself.

quote Originally posted by FieroRumor: I couldn't remember the dreams, until I entered the conversations, then I knew both sides of what was going to be said. Happened years ago. Weren't really important or significant conversations,

This happens to me about twice a year, and has done so for about 20 years.
Exactly every word as you discribe above.

If it is what I think it is, I would love to develop it.
But it does not happen often enough to design a way practice stretching it.

I knew you were going to ask this question. Everything that can happen has happened until it does.

Since religious people tend to promote their faith up front, I might as well do it also. Or just say I don't have faith in any religious text.

I know that the Christian God does not exist. But this topic kind of goes with one I had a number of months back; about if our lives was guided by the hands of destiny. If it is, then we have no free will, just an illusion of it. Much like the matrix.

It's easy enough to brush off life and take the idiot path is just say "It's God's Plan", and live your life in an ignorant bliss and use the same phrase for everything that goes both right and wrong within your personal lives.

But moments that people experience, such as that with Rumor and quite fascinating. Nature goes through life cycles and patterns, but the interesting thing is that we do possess some kind of telepathy that is yet to be fully developed or can be triggered at will. With that sense, we can basically connect to other creatures of nature, even if it is plants.

You might have had a moment of telepathy that was a powerful sense that you cannot quite figure out what was really happening. Kind of like a baby that said the first word or standing up for the first time. Electrical rain storms, the phase of the moon and all that I think can help trigger this by stimulating right conditions or uping the electrical activity in your brains.

By focusing on the branch, you are the one that actually caused it to break off, because you used your telepathy powers without knowing how to keep it under control. You focused too much on the branch and instead of entire tree.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Since religious people tend to promote their faith up front, I might as well do it also. Or just say I don't have faith in any religious text. I know that the Christian God does not exist. But this topic kind of goes with one I had a number of months back; about if our lives was guided by the hands of destiny. If it is, then we have no free will, just an illusion of it. Much like the matrix. It's easy enough to brush off life and take the idiot path is just say "It's God's Plan", and live your life in an ignorant bliss and use the same phrase for everything that goes both right and wrong within your personal lives. But moments that people experience, such as that with Rumor and quite fascinating. Nature goes through life cycles and patterns, but the interesting thing is that we do possess some kind of telepathy that is yet to be fully developed or can be triggered at will. With that sense, we can basically connect to other creatures of nature, even if it is plants. You might have had a moment of telepathy that was a powerful sense that you cannot quite figure out what was really happening. Kind of like a baby that said the first word or standing up for the first time. Electrical rain storms, the phase of the moon and all that I think can help trigger this by stimulating right conditions or uping the electrical activity in your brains. By focusing on the branch, you are the one that actually caused it to break off, because you used your telepathy powers without knowing how to keep it under control. You focused too much on the branch and instead of entire tree.

Very interesting.

NO SWEAT ,, you are living in the most interesting of time ,life on Earth has never been more interesting ,,more destrution & terror will occur in your lifetime than at any time on earth..Life is flowing over us right now.
we have been waiting for the billions of people to be born,to surround us.. untold numbers..
Finally where I live ,in what use to be paradise ,almost every plot of land has angry people who were unhappy in some northern craphole where they were,, so they moved here ??

Can't say for certain whether you did some precognition or you broke the branch with your studly brain....

If you like Morgan Freeman, watch this:

http://watchdocumentary.com...14.html#.TjVzv2EQTD0

If not, get off the forum 'cause I don't want you here.

If we believe quantum theories and alternative dimensions ( which i do, in a modified form ), ya its been done, but not here, so its new to US, which is all hat matters

[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 07-31-2011).]

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: NO SWEAT ,, you are living in the most interesting of time ,life on Earth has never been more interesting ,,

You could say that about any 'time' that you live in, if you only compare to the past.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Since religious people tend to promote their faith up front, I might as well do it also. Or just say I don't have faith in any religious text. I know that the Christian God does not exist. But this topic kind of goes with one I had a number of months back; about if our lives was guided by the hands of destiny. If it is, then we have no free will, just an illusion of it. Much like the matrix. It's easy enough to brush off life and take the idiot path is just say "It's God's Plan", and live your life in an ignorant bliss and use the same phrase for everything that goes both right and wrong within your personal lives. But moments that people experience, such as that with Rumor and quite fascinating. Nature goes through life cycles and patterns, but the interesting thing is that we do possess some kind of telepathy that is yet to be fully developed or can be triggered at will. With that sense, we can basically connect to other creatures of nature, even if it is plants. You might have had a moment of telepathy that was a powerful sense that you cannot quite figure out what was really happening. Kind of like a baby that said the first word or standing up for the first time. Electrical rain storms, the phase of the moon and all that I think can help trigger this by stimulating right conditions or uping the electrical activity in your brains. By focusing on the branch, you are the one that actually caused it to break off, because you used your telepathy powers without knowing how to keep it under control. You focused too much on the branch and instead of entire tree.

Wichita, do you know why sometimes people get mad at you for the comments you make? You get angry every time someone suggests something is religious. You respond with insults, when in fact the comment you are responding do was never an insult to you, or anyone else. You believe that those who believe in religion are inferior to you, but people who believe in religion generally don't believe YOU are inferior... at least, no one I know here does. What is it about religion that makes you so angry? Why do you care of 90% of the world believes in a religion? I hope I'm not getting too personal here, but I'd really love to know where your hatred of religion, and people who are religious comes from. Was one of your parents a staunch Christian or something?

I tend to agree more with what you said about the situation... however, I don't think he really had any control over it, but perhaps he was a bit more "enlightened" because of increased brain activity. As I explained above, it has to do with a variety of environmental factors including increased barometric pressure, etc. For what it's worth though, the concept of him causing the branch to break is not telepathy... that's telekenesis.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: the concept of him causing the branch to break is not telepathy... that's telekenesis.

Telekinesis is right, but telepathy can cause telekinesis. Connecting to the branch by awareness is telepathy and the branch breaking off was cause by telekinesis.

Thanks for the clarification.

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: You don't KNOW, Brennan...but you BELIEVE There is an enormous gulf between the two, I admire your Faith, I truly do. But it can be dangerous to have blind faith in ANYthing you can't prove. But that last line proves MY faith in Nature being 'God'. We all die, we all turn to dust, and become One again with from whence we came...Nature. Thanks Yes.Interesting indeed. Nick

Well, I believe it as much as I believe there is an apple in my refrigerator right now. I believe it as much as I believe I'm wearing a white shirt. I believe it as much as I believe the computer in front of me is real. Perhaps, none of this is reality, and everything that has been a part of my life, including those around me, is just my imagination. Perhaps the past 20 years have been a dream. "I think, therefore I am", but I can't tell that you think. You can tell me that you think, but that could just be my imagination projecting that.

Faith is required to believe anything, Nick. So how much Faith does one have to have, before it becomes knowledge? I know my God exists, as much as I know you exist. You could be a part of my imagination, but evidence that I've found around me proves otherwise. I've experienced God; I know that He exists. You can gather your own conclusion from my text, if you wish, but I know He does as heavily as I know you do.

However, that wasn't the point of my comment... at all. If you read the whole thing, it's more about the theory that we are all particles of God. This is something that I don't believe to be true. This is something the author doesn't believe to be true. This was simply an exercise in thought--and by you taking my comment on the false book, and saying that it validates your beliefs, you're turning my comment into something it wasn't. I was simply explaining the book. Again, this is the book admitted by the author to have no basis whatsoever, but was rather a thought experiment. His point was to have us challenge Occum's Razor, which is the exact opposite of believing the text. If you choose to believe your own belief based on something that was declared by the author to have no merit, that's fine, but it wasn't my validation. Keep that in mind.

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: You don't KNOW, Brennan...but you BELIEVE There is an enormous gulf between the two, I admire your Faith, I truly do. But it can be dangerous to have blind faith in ANYthing you can't prove. But that last line proves MY faith in Nature being 'God'. We all die, we all turn to dust, and become One again with from whence we came...Nature. Thanks Yes.Interesting indeed. Nick

I think I KNOW...

I don't know the details, but I do KNOW. And that's all I need to know. My faith is so strong, that there is NOTHING that can shake what I believe. You can show me facts about anything and everything, and I'll agree with you, and believe it's simply the explaintation of how God created it.

There have been a lot of personal experiences that I've had which have affected me greatly, and have FORTIFIED my belief in God. One which I am a bit more comfortable sharing, is one that happened about 5-6 years ago.

When my brother died, I was "destroyed" to say the least... I hyperventilated in the back seat of the car on the way to the funeral home where I would see my brother for the first time after being dead (in the viewing). To say the least, when they closed the casket (knowing I would never "see" him again) was equally devestating to me. It was after they closed the casket that night, that I said... "God, please give me a sign that my brrother is going to be ok."

Anyway, we were staying in a motel on the opposite side of the street. So when we left the funeral parlor, we just crossed the street (and left our car there) to the motel. I was responsible for watching my grandmother. She had major senile dimensia / alzheimers and on the flight up to Front Royal, Virginia, she believed we were all flying to America for the first time on a DC-3 from Argentina. My grandmother didn't have a purse, and was wearing a dress which had no pockets. I was holding my grandmother's hand, and she had NOTHING in her hands. I helped her cross the street into the parking lot of the motel. I let go of her for a split second to help my dad unlock the door of the motel room, and my grandmother tapped me on the shoulder and said... "The nice man asked me to give this to you..." My grandmother handed me a US Quarter from the year "1974." This was the year my brother was born, and incidentally, every year, my brother would buy me the US Mint coin set every year which had the half-dollar, quarter, dime, nickle, etc... and whatever else came out that year.

I was floored, and I immediately asked my grandmother who gave this to her? She said... "that man over there" and pointed to the middle of an empty parking lot. She then quickly deteriorated and could no longer speak properly again (reverted back to only speaking Spanish) and then had no idea what we were talking about. There is NO WAY that my grandmother had this quarter in her hand when we left the funeral home. Both her hands were empty, she had no purse, and no pockets. No one was near her except for myself from the time we left the funeral home to the time we crossed the street and got into the parking lot (it was late at night, and fairly dark out). The only two people that were near us was my dad, and my uncle, who were equally blown away or confused, but have since forgotten about it, and I don't really bring it up ever.

The same damned thing happened again at work. A month later, the office I worked at was moving down the street. We were cleaning out our desks, and made one last check in my drawers to make sure I had gotten everything. I opened my top drawer and found all the cards my co-workers had sent me about my brother, and... another 1974 Quarter. It's NOT the same quarter because I saved that quarter and still have it with me. I know for a FACT that I emptied out that drawer, especially because I had a ton of **** in there.

These are just two experiences, but there are MANY, MANY more... which I am not comfortable talking about yet. Maybe I'll share that stuff with you one day on Skype, etc.


So for me, it's not about the details... I "KNOW"... the details...? For me, the rest is just details. That's why I can so easily believe in evolution, life on other planets, and not have my faith swayed even in the slightest. The Bible was created by man, whom is fallable, but the Earth, and life... was created by God's formula.

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 07-31-2011).]

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Well, I believe it as much as I believe there is an apple in my refrigerator right now. I believe it as much as I believe I'm wearing a white shirt. I believe it as much as I believe the computer in front of me is real. Perhaps, none of this is reality, and everything that has been a part of my life, including those around me, is just my imagination. Perhaps the past 20 years have been a dream. "I think, therefore I am", but I can't tell that you think. You can tell me that you think, but that could just be my imagination projecting that. Faith is required to believe anything, Nick. So how much Faith does one have to have, before it becomes knowledge? I know my God exists, as much as I know you exist. You could be a part of my imagination, but evidence that I've found around me proves otherwise. I've experienced God; I know that He exists. You can gather your own conclusion from my text, if you wish, but I know He does as heavily as I know you do. However, that wasn't the point of my comment... at all. If you read the whole thing, it's more about the theory that we are all particles of God. This is something that I don't believe to be true. This is something the author doesn't believe to be true. This was simply an exercise in thought--and by you taking my comment on the false book, and saying that it validates your beliefs, you're turning my comment into something it wasn't. I was simply explaining the book. Again, this is the book admitted by the author to have no basis whatsoever, but was rather a thought experiment. His point was to have us challenge Occum's Razor, which is the exact opposite of believing the text. If you choose to believe your own belief based on something that was declared by the author to have no merit, that's fine, but it wasn't my validation. Keep that in mind.

But if one were to tell you the facts based on science, archeology, logic, historic and recorded time-lines, written history from various sources that your God was just a figment of somebody's else imagination and has no merit on facts, because the facts show that what you have faith in doesn't mesh with reality, so why do you still continue to have faith?

There is one thing to be optimistic and having patience for positive outcomes, but that doesn't really relate to faith. Faith is blind trust or just a hope that your god is somehow the right one and everybody else is wrong.

1st impressions and/or past performance/behavior is basically an indicator of how confident and how much trust you lend something or somebody, but that has to be tangible, accountable and measurable.

An imaginative being does nothing or show nothing. But you claim you have proof or you know your god is real because you read the Bible or go to church and people tell you that your god is real.

While I don't see nothing wrong with pursuing to find out if the angry and destructive Christian god is real, but to sit fat in a chair and proclaim it to all that my god is real because I have faith doesn't fly at all. It's like the Bigfoot hunters. Me? I don't think Bigfoot is real at all. Somebody somewhere would have shot one or hit one with a car by now. But I don't dismiss those who try to find out and do the work to find any evidence that would indicate a tangible Sasquatch.

Yeah! I mean a burnt image of the European version of the Hippie Jesus on a bread of toast could indicate that the angry and destructive Christian god is real, but to me it isn't.

I don't blindly have faith that the Christian god and the Jesus god is not real. I know so by historic evidence collected by scholars, archeologist, theologians and many other science disciplines and many of those came from the christian backgrounds and even belong to the hierarchy of the church, i.e. Vatican. And from what we have gathered in a mountain of evidence points towards that Jesus was a normal person and wasn't a son god of any kind and many of the stories in the Bible were complete fiction.

You might not know about this or you just don't care, because you still have faith, right?

If somebody comes up with a Bigfoot, I would believe they are real at that point. But if we scorched the entire earth looking for Bigfoot and came empty, I would safely say that Bigfoot doesn't exist, but people of faith will say it still does.

So that is why people who have blind faith look so silly. For the most part, most people who have faith hardly no anything about the history of their own beliefs nor do they look deeper into it. Because if you do, you would cease to believe and I think that scares you most of all. You keep your faith because you are scared that you will loose your ignorant bliss.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: But if one were to tell you the facts based on science, archeology, logic, historic and recorded time-lines, written history from various sources that your God was just a figment of somebody's else imagination and has no merit on facts, because the facts show that what you have faith in doesn't mesh with reality, so why do you still continue to have faith?

How do you know that the logic, science, and other FACTS (which I agree are facts) are not simply the science behind God's creations? How do you know that God didn't create the formula that is macro AND micro evolution? How do you know that God didn't create all science? You don't...

Your "proof" of non-existance of God is the absense of anything telling you otherwise. On the contrary, I've had far too many proofs to me that I simply cannot NOT believe in God.


If I may... I see "your problem" as the disagreement with "fundamentalist" Christianity... that seems to stem your hatred, and then you assume everyone else is feels the same. Fundamentalism does NOT make up the majority of Christians. There are over 2.4 BILLION people in the world who consider themselves to be Christian. The percentage of those who would consider themselves to be fundamentalist could all fit in the state of Deleware, but they are the only ones who make the news day in and day out.

The overwhelming vast majority of Christians are like me, they believe in science... they agree with science... they just feel it's the explaination of God's creations.

Like I said... the Bible was created by man...


EDIT: I would hate to think that you've directed your entire life, hatred, emotion, etc... based on your disagreement on the values / beliefs of people who make up .01% of the world's population.

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 07-31-2011).]

quote Originally posted by FieroRumor: Keep coming back to the whole "singularity" thing lately, most are focusing on how we will develop technology which will do all these fantastic things, but I'm beginning to think we will develop a technology which will allow us to become aware that we are able to tap into our OWN *whatever* and don't need a lot o fthe advanced stuff we are currently dreaming about...it's already inside of us, we just need to know how to open the doors... "If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narow chinks of his cavern." -William Blake Chained against the wall, tugging against my shackles, I laugh and rage like an insane fool...the others turn and think me mad, and I once again am silent as I resign myself to my fate...click "submit reply", and close the lid of my laptop.

The "Singularity" is an amazing concept, I take it you enjoyed "Trancendent Man"?

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I think I KNOW... I don't know the details, but I do KNOW. And that's all I need to know. My faith is so strong, that there is NOTHING that can shake what I believe. You can show me facts about anything and everything, and I'll agree with you, and believe it's simply the explaintation of how God created it.

What ever God is and many of billions of people believe in a god or gods. Agnostic don't even discount the possibility. Your God could be the same God (if only one exist) although many Christians believe that Angels and Demons intervene (How do you explain that?), Mormons believe that Joseph Smith sits at the same side of Jesus and Moses and the list goes on. Or what are ghost, which many people believe exist?

You can explain things as the handiwork of God and God intervenes personally with you, which a lot of people say they have experienced God or that God made such and such happen, like moving quarters into a drawer in your case.

I could explain that the US Mint pounded out 1,154,616,300 1974 date quarters and your chances of running across one is very good and your Grandmother found one on the ground.

Although everybody has stories like this, nothing happens in front of any body's eyes. It's just you can only rationalize it by saying it is the handiwork of God and that God helps those who believe.

Well, I have a similar story. One time during a cold winter day I was 4-hours from my house working. I parked a vehicle in the back of a hotel, because were I needed to go they were paving the parking lot. A jeweler commercial on the radio came on talking about a special on Diamond rings. I thought to myself that it would be interesting if I found a diamond ring. Well, I walked to the garbage bin of this hotel to throw away a fast food bag when low-and-behold I saw something glint on the ground and I picked it up and it was a diamond ring (thought it was fake until I had a jeweler tell me it wasn't).

Now I don't believe at all in the Christian God or Jesus. I wasn't asking for a sign of his glory for proof. Yeah! It was a special circumstance that I found a diamond ring by just thinking about it, but I still don't believe it as a sign of God. I would explain that it that it's possible to find rings in the dumpster area of hotels because patrons will take their wedding rings off and forget them or something. Basically there is a rational explanation why I found a diamond ring based on odds, and yes my chances were maybe slim, it still happened, but it wasn't God doing it. People don't win the lottery because they pray to God.

I think its fine you believe in God. I can affirm with absolute confidence Jesus is no God or a son of God or became God. That is a fact! If you believe in a God, I think that is fine. If you believe Jesus was God, then you're bonkers or just ignorant of the facts. Because I see in the historic record other than the circumstances of history in the lotto luck of life (there are always lottery winners) that a Jew name Jesus became a religious icon.

I just find it strange that using a coin is some sort of proof that your brother is in heaven and frolicking with angels. Why is it that evidence of god is always indirect and subjective. At least back in the day, God would use a burning talking bush or inscribe stone tablets or have a whale swallow you and spit you out or drown every living thing in the world with the exception of the Noah family and their floating zoo.

A quarter to you might be proof, to me that quarter is currency to get a coca cola from a vending machine.

[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 07-31-2011).]