By Liz Goodwin | The Lookout – 55 mins ago

Hundreds of job opening listings posted on Monster.com and other jobs sites explicitly state that people who are unemployed would be less attractive applicants, with some telling the long-term unemployed to not even bother with applying.

The New York Times' Catherine Rampell said she found preferences for the already employed or only recently laid off in listings for "hotel concierges, restaurant managers, teachers, I.T. specialists, business analysts, sales directors, account executives, orthopedics device salesmen, auditors and air-conditioning technicians." Even the massive University of Phoenix stated that preference, but removed the listings when the Times started asking questions.

The concerted shunning of unemployed Americans by prospective employers was a common theme that cropped up in the thousands of responses that poured in when we asked Yahoo! readers to share their experiences of unemployment for our "Down But Not Out" series.

Reader Susan W. said she was being treated "as if it were my fault I was unemployed, regardless of the fact that I had put out hundreds of resumes and applications."

Legal experts told the Times that explicitly barring unemployed people from applying does not qualify under the statutory definition of discrimination, since unemployment is not a federally protected status like age or race. But the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission recently set out to establish whether employers were discriminating against certain protected groups because they are overrepresented in the ranks of the unemployed, such as African-American and older workers. (We covered that meeting here.) New Jersey recently passed a law barring employment ads that seek to rule out applications from those who are unemployed.

Even if the practice of weeding out unemployed applicants doesn't fit the legal definition of discrimination, it sure feels unfair for the more than 6.3 million Americans who have been out of work for more than six months to be told they are automatically disqualified for the few openings that are out there. "I feel like I am being shunned by our entire society," Kelly Wiedemer, an unemployed information technology specialist, told the Times.

I agree it sucks

and, more so, I hate to understand many of the so called "reasons". I wish it werent like that. Tho, I do think there are exceptions - like those who used the extended "vacation" to make personal improvements, instead of caking on bad habits.

While I agree to a certain extent, I think folks that are un-employed and holding out for that job (like the one they used to have) are wasting time and our money. (Edited: This assumes they are drawing Un-Employment Benefits) That's one of the bad things about un-employment benefits we now have in place. Those jobs are rare and hard to find in today's economy. Face the facts and go get a job. No, it won't pay as well as the one you lost but, working is better than sitting home on yer ass. You may even have to move. Yep, it's gonna effect your life style. I know it did mine but, I am working and pulling my own weight. (Those that know me personally can tell you, that ain't easy.) Way too many folks sitting back and drawing un-employment that could be working in my opinion. Get that job and work your way back up the ladder or get it and continue to search for that ideal opportunity. Whether you like it or not, employers get to hire who they feel are the most qualified. Get used to it.
I don't make what I used to make but, I make enough to support what's important. I don't feel sorry for those who refuse to move on.

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Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 07-26-2011).]

"unemployed" does not mean "receiving unemployment checks."

edit: I would know. Unemployed for 4 weeks now.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 07-26-2011).]

I suppose they are playing the percentages and trying to avoid those who are unemployed due to laziness instead of unfortunate circumstances.

However, I would conisder unemployed if I was a business owner who was hiring. There are a lot of quality, hard working people unemployed who would be very hungry for a job right now!

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: "unemployed" does not mean "receiving unemployment checks." edit: I would know. Unemployed for 4 weeks now.

I spent 3 months unemployed with NO benefits.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: "unemployed" does not mean "receiving unemployment checks." edit: I would know. Unemployed for 4 weeks now.

quote Originally posted by 8Ball: I spent 3 months unemployed with NO benefits.

See edited post.

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Ron

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: "unemployed" does not mean "receiving unemployment checks." edit: I would know. Unemployed for 4 weeks now.

Ditto, except I'm looking down the barrel of 6 weeks. There aren't even any fast food joints in town that are hiring. :/

quote Originally posted by Rallaster: Ditto, except I'm looking down the barrel of 6 weeks. There aren't even any fast food joints in town that are hiring. :/

Not intended as a flame, OK? I'm sure you have other qualifications. I sincerely wish you all the luck in the world but, luck isn't enough. I know, I've been through this. Keep looking and good luck.

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Ron

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Not intended as a flame, OK? I'm sure you have other qualifications. I sincerely wish you all the luck in the world but, luck isn't enough. I know, I've been through this. Keep looking and good luck.

I understand what you're saying, and I do have several IT certifications, but I lack the experience desired by every job I have looked at and applied for. I've already moved once in search of a job and can't afford another. I had a job offer at the local Autozone, but I failed the personality profile at the end of the application and am unable to re-apply for the next 90 days. Same for an AT&T store sales position. This is just incredibly frustrating.

Hmm... I see the merit for the employer
"If he fired him, why should I hire him?"

But... seems like with the high unemployment they should be able to get some cheap labor
"Oh, you want a job? Well then, take a pay cut."

If I were an employer I'd probably do a bit of both. Let the unemployed come in and show me what they've got, and if they've got it, then give them an offer appropriate for his/her position as well as your own. But employed people generally would be better, because there is generally a reason they weren't fired when someone else was.
Keyword here is generally. Don't forget that.

Unemployed 3 years, self-employed part of that time - the same old "over qualified" or "under-educated" or the best one "we don't think you would fit in with our culture".

Might be that I'm pushing 60, have a resume full of excellent results under less than optimal conditions and have always made good money.

I'll go with the almost 60 as the reason.

When I was last looking for work, thankfully right before everything fell apart, one recruiter told me she wasn't looking for people who were unemployed. She was looking for people who were smart enough to see the writing on the wall and get out.

Evidently, she, and others like her, did not care if you were loyal to the people around you, and cared enough to "go down with the ship." I was the type who'd stay, fighting every inch of the way, to keep my employer afloat. I would not quit untill told to abandon ship, and literally pushed overboard.

Loyalty? Laziness? Lack of ambition? Liking what I do? Learning to be really good at what that company needs? Call it what you will.

Employers don't expect you'll be there very long, if you do get the job. When I started my latest job, during my tour of the building on the first day, I asked, "How long do you have to be here before you get more vacation time?" I was told, "Don't worry. You won't be here that long."

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: Might be that I'm pushing 60, have a resume full of excellent results under less than optimal conditions and have always made good money. I'll go with the almost 60 as the reason.

Yep, I agree. I have fought that issue myself, still doing it. Although the same things that got me where I was in my former career are the things that are getting me ahead in my newest career. So many of those that I compete against don't seem to understand things like reliabilty and work ethic. They don't want to work when the employer needs them to work or they are frequently calling off on Monday or always have an emergency on Friday. It's amazing how much a reliable employee can be worth to the "boss". Although I started as a part timer, I've already "earned" multiple pay raises and have been promoted twice. I'm now full time. No, I'm not earning what I once did but, at least I'm employed and haven't drawn a dime of un-employment. I'm either to proud or stupid, not sure which. Yeah, I'm an old fart to, at least to those I work with.

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Ron

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: Unemployed 3 years, self-employed part of that time - the same old "over qualified" or "under-educated" or the best one "we don't think you would fit in with our culture". Might be that I'm pushing 60, have a resume full of excellent results under less than optimal conditions and have always made good money. I'll go with the almost 60 as the reason.

Very similar to me, OJD.

Lost my "good" job ($22k/year) in 2008.. thanks for tanking the economy, Bush. (And no, those who would try, you wont change my mind on that, so why bother trying?)

Been doing odd jobs, self-employment, casual labor, and any work I can... selling on ebay, doing repair work, and freelance art. Have not seen a dime of Unemployment in 2 years. Living on wits and luck, because I have literally applied at over 1000 different jobs in the last 3.5 years... 2 interviews (no second interviews) , 1 we'll keep you in mind, and 4 at least called me to let me know they did not have anything.

Will I work at McDonalds? Perhaps, but not as long as I can keep this ship afloat while NOT working there. Screw the grease if you can ebay.

Someone who needs that job bad enough will just pad their resume, say they were a stay at home parent, or whatever. There are ways around it. Lying on your resume and getting caught is infinitely more preferable to starving and not trying.

Still, if an employer has such strict restrictions and punishment on what I did with my time when he was not employing me, that would be pretty tell-tale of how crappy working for them might be.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 07-26-2011).]

I had to deal with that mentality last year, when I was looking for work. I ended up being unemployed, due to downsizing at my last job. I was not fired. And my previous employer actually liked me. But since I filed for unemployment benefits, people didn't want to hire me. They were pretty blunt about it, too.

So what did I do? I started lying to people. I got a job pretty quickly.

I tend to think the reason is that employers figure someone who's unemployed will take the first thing that comes along, even if they know they won't be a good fit. Desperate times and all that. I costs a lot of time and effort to hire a new person, get them acclimated and maybe trained in a new position. It's a lot of effort to go through for someone who is probably only in it for the short term, until something better comes along. A person who is already working doesn't have that same desperation, and has a lot more to lose by quitting a job to move into something different, they're inclined to be more invested in the new job than someone who hasn't made that sacrifice.

Then there's the guy who just wants beer money. I ran into that a lot when I was doing contracting. I hired a bunch of guys, all of whom worked a week, collected their pay on Friday (always preferably in cash) I always knew right then and there they weren't coming back. I knew full well, come Monday morning they would be holed up in their apartment, half drink, watching cartoons eating Cap'n Crunch out of the box.

quote Originally posted by tbone42: ... thanks for tanking the economy, Bush. (And no, those who would try, you wont change my mind on that, so why bother trying?)

Why ? I'll tell you why. Lies like that perpetuate the myth fabricated by the Dumbocrats.
The economy tanked because of the housing market bubble collapse. Would you agree ?

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Why ? I'll tell you why. Lies like that perpetuate the myth fabricated by the Dumbocrats. The economy tanked because of the housing market bubble collapse. Would you agree ?

Only partially..it also tanked because our Nation's CEO at the time believed in unrestricted market with no oversight, and he gave the very banks who tanked it with underhanded practices a bailout.

Just like I blame our Nation's current CEO for further financial damages, I blame our former President for getting the party started. They were in charge, they were/are responsible. We had a defecit surplus when he took office, and all of this "catching up" we are trying to start was spurred by his bad economic decisions in this country. Not a "dumbocrat" myth.
http://www.factcheck.org/20...ficit-under-clinton/

Like I said, wont change my mind.

PS cliff.. it would be easier to convince people if your explanations didn't involve insults. I tend to "shut off" and ignore when the namecalling begins,even when its not pointed at me.. it really isn't productive.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 07-26-2011).]

There are millions of more people who can work and want to work than there are jobs available, of any kind. It's like a game of musical chairs, and no amount of settling for less will get someone a job if there just simply isn't a job to work at.

Like any member of a group that is being discriminated against for reasons that do not apply, "F" you. When I was working security, I met many others that were making $70,000 to $120,000 as skilled professionals before. Unfortunately and fortunately I am financially tied to this area so a relocation is out. In fact, because of good planing I am making more in unearned income than I was working but, I desperately want to work. It is much more fun to me to socialize with peers than people that are obligated to you and there is no quicker to get me to my happy place than praise for the good job that I do.
Laid off when the department moved to India, mostly contract positions after that, except for the security guard jobs( 5 places in 3 years, a year since the last place). I have applied for part time, temporary jobs that pay 1/3 of what I used to make and without benefits.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: There are millions of more people who can work and want to work than there are jobs available, of any kind. It's like a game of musical chairs, and no amount of settling for less will get someone a job if there just simply isn't a job to work at.

exactly
the majority of the unemployement is NOT due to some kind of "choice", as many are implying

the b!tches wont be sluts, unless they get desperate......

quote Originally posted by FriendGregory: Like any member of a group that is being discriminated against for reasons that do not apply, "F" you.

Hell yes.

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: Unemployed 3 years, self-employed part of that time - the same old "over qualified" or "under-educated" or the best one "we don't think you would fit in with our culture". Might be that I'm pushing 60, have a resume full of excellent results under less than optimal conditions and have always made good money. I'll go with the almost 60 as the reason.

I'm with ya, but I do think it's very important that you fit in with the company. My company has a very social atmosphere for an engineering company. We are a family. If you are a genius, but are a loner and don't really socialize or be a part of the group, you won't be hired. That's how we keep our goals on one track.

Also, if I were an employer, I wouldn't hire anyone 60+ unless it came with something REALLY good. I wouldn't want to put in resources for that last couple years just to have it walk away. I feel for you, but I'm just saying it is understandable... as I'm sure you know.

Luckily you are not an employer. I would never apply to a job where the interviewer was younger than me, especially if they are not even old enough to legally drink. What the hell do they know, right? At least with OJD I would know he was a serious candidate that lived about 40 years on his own with no help from mommy and daddy. When I see you, I suspect you havent even done it for a year. You are the one that would not get hired, were I an employer. I want reliable, responsible adults. You have not proven that yet, youngster.

Kinda sucks when someone holds your age against you, doesnt it?

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 07-26-2011).]

quote Originally posted by tbone42: Luckily you are not an employer. I would never apply to a job where the interviewer was younger than me, especially if they are not even old enough to legally drink. What the hell do they know, right? At least with OJD I would know he was a serious candidate that lived about 40 years on his own with no help from mommy and daddy. When I see you, I suspect you havent even done it for a year. You are the one that would not get hired, were I an employer. I want reliable, responsible adults. You have not proven that yet, youngster. Kinda sucks when someone holds your age against you, doesnt it?

Not at all. If someone was around 50, and I was 20, and we were both applying for a job as an engineer, I would hope they took the 50 year old over me. He would be more experienced, require less training, and can probably be a better leader than I can. I have to be trained and utilize their resources.

Why would I get hurt over that? Yeah, I wouldn't get the job. But I would understand the employer's perspective and realize they made a smart decision.

this is pretty despicable in my opinion. Especially at times such as this.

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: I tend to think the reason is that employers figure someone who's unemployed will take the first thing that comes along, even if they know they won't be a good fit. Desperate times and all that. I costs a lot of time and effort to hire a new person, get them acclimated and maybe trained in a new position. It's a lot of effort to go through for someone who is probably only in it for the short term, until something better comes along. A person who is already working doesn't have that same desperation, and has a lot more to lose by quitting a job to move into something different, they're inclined to be more invested in the new job than someone who hasn't made that sacrifice.

Exactly, ran into a lot of this during our last applicant marathon.
I know it sucks to be on the unemployed side, but having to hear sad stories all day.. Gets a little rough just to hear and in the back of your mind is always the thought this person wants the job just for a job until what they're really qualified for or want opens up.. Then we've wasted what 6+ months on training, benefits etc?

Bad enough most interviews are like speed dating.. You've got 30 min to make me like you.. If we don't click.. sorry next.

Adapting/fitting the culture is a real thing.
Every company is different and yes you may be a god at "BigCorp" and have a really nice suit, but your by the book everything according to corp procedure doesnt fit with.. "We need it now and I don't care how you do it.. Make it happen and we'll clean up the fiddly bits later" mentality that we have at our company.

<edit to clean up some incomplete thoughts>

[This message has been edited by Uaana (edited 07-26-2011).]

When I am hiring, I dont even look twice at resumes of people out of work for more than 4-6 months. There is ALWAYS work with temp agencies, even if it IS low-rent brainless labor work. Being unemployed for longer than 4-6 moths without signing up with a temp service or going back to school or starting a part-time buisiness or SOMETHING shows me a lack of initiative. (BTW, if you are working as a temp or in school or running a buisiness, then I consider you employed. Sitting on Farcebook or the couch collecting the benifits is NOT employed)

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: When I am hiring, I dont even look twice at resumes of people out of work for more than 4-6 months. There is ALWAYS work with temp agencies, even if it IS low-rent brainless labor work. Being unemployed for longer than 4-6 moths without signing up with a temp service or going back to school or starting a part-time buisiness or SOMETHING shows me a lack of initiative. (BTW, if you are working as a temp or in school or running a buisiness, then I consider you employed. Sitting on Farcebook or the couch collecting the benifits is NOT employed)

^^^^^ Yes, yes, YES! Very much do I firmly stand by this.

I read that article also when it was originally posted. I have some feelings upon it, primarily based on my own experience and maybe can put them out there here and kind of go off what MidEngine'd said above

I guess that maybe in the job market I have just been relatively lucky. I'm still in my twenties, just currently moved into my career position after using the opportunities my college degree gave me, and honestly have never had to "look" for a job. I've done a lot. I've cut down trees, managed a restaurant (at a relatively young age), busted tables at restaurants, worked in a diesel shop, sacked groceries, done office work - a lot.

Here's the thing though; for the past seven years or so, I've always worked a second job. I did this after about a year and a half I got out of high school ('02) and still continue to this day. No matter what that job is. I've not been picky. If it's a three hour shift waiting tables at night, I did it. These jobs have never taken much of my free time up. In fact, they very often gave me something to do. I also made sure that whatever it was my second job was different than my primary job (if I was working restaurant, I'd try to find a small job outside restaurant work, etc.) Here's why I did it...

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: But since I filed for unemployment benefits, people didn't want to hire me. They were pretty blunt about it, too. So what did I do? I started lying to people. I got a job pretty quickly.

I learned that very early on, this is a relatively baaaaaddd thing for potential employees (the prior, not the later) in today's job market - even in the small stint when I myself was an employeer. The original article reaffirms this. Many employers have issues with applicants whom have been out of work and receiving benefits. I've learned that you have to very much live within your means. I just recently finally purchased a new car (have never done that, until this point). I've tried to keep my bills at a relative minimum. Sure I do unfortunately miss out on things, but the money that I would have been spending I save. Save, save, save. Then, when the issue arises that one loses a primary source of income, you still have that second - rather small - income. The deal is to never show that you're currently drawing unemployment.

Sure, no one really wants to nuke burgers at McDonalds - it's a McJob. The fact isn't that the second job likely sucks. What it is showing to the potential employeer by you working the second job is you are rather flexible. Long gone is the stigma that people are working multiple jobs to get by (well, it's there, but it's not the focus). These types of jobs ARE OUT THERE. They're not hard to find. Hell, my sister-in-law, who just turned 18, has gotten nearly every job she has had to applied for. Albeit they've been food service or other similar jobs, but the fact is she's gotten them with relatively little effort. What has she done though? Just like me, she's always kept a second crap job. I myself, while in-between primary jobs, got hired with relatively little effort. I walked into a diesel shop and got a job within two days (No experience. Was laid off after restructuring of the company). One of my restaurant jobs I got the same day - literally walked in, they showed me a video, and I worked within four hours of walking through the door (And they actually weren't even hiring). I think that constantly showing I was employeed, even if it was a crap job, helped tremendously.

Here's why I think it's important - a second job shows;

- An employee is dynamic in their work ethics. It's one thing to say on an application you have multiple abilities and can adapt, but your job resume' is the best way to show this. The worst thing to show is you've worked at four restaurants as a waiter, and are now completely unemployeed and have been so for a few months.
- An employee does not have an issue with working over-the-top. It's one thing to ask for a day off or a few hours off. Showing that you have the ability to work over a normal work load shows immediately to an employeer that you are likely the first one to suck it up and help out when the going gets tough - you can be counted on.

Employers know the job market is tough - don't be fooled. Of course you may be coming in for a job after just being laid off. That "cushion" however shows you still mean business. You went through a bit of bad luck. That's reasonable. You're still working though - although it's not the best. You're staying afloat. You've made an effort to still be in the work place.

See, one of my aunt's has now been unemployeed for over a year and a half. She went from making around $19 an hour to drawing unemployment. She has this mentality that she's "not good enough to work for anything under $18 an hour" (pretty much her words). You're NEVER good enough to NOT work a crap job. Her persistent to find a "good" job, all this while being unemployeed, is quite detrimental to her work opportunities - and the sad thing is I don't think she gets it at all. My younger brother - not following my example - recently walked away from his job. He does not have a second job. Going to be kind of hard to explain to potential employers why he's not bringing in any income that's not unemployment.

These are just my experiences. They're probably not set in stones and people probably see issues or faults. I will be honest and say that I wish I could live the dream of the 40 hour work week and coming home to a cooked dinner. It's just never been realistic and I don't believe it ever will be, even with a career job that required a degree. I can say my philosophy has worked for me though and for those I know that have followed my example. The fact that the job market is dynamically changing cannot be refutted. There is very quickly starting to become two very opposite spectrums of jobs. On one side will be all the low end jobs. On the other is intricately knowledgable jobs that require college. Trade jobs are very quickly disappearing. The job market is shrinking. Do not let it consume you. Act in ANY way possible. If you're out of work, DO SOMETHING. Volunteer, temp-work, hopefully you have/had a second job. Don't idle!

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: When I am hiring, I dont even look twice at resumes of people out of work for more than 4-6 months. There is ALWAYS work with temp agencies, even if it IS low-rent brainless labor work. Being unemployed for longer than 4-6 moths without signing up with a temp service or going back to school or starting a part-time buisiness or SOMETHING shows me a lack of initiative. (BTW, if you are working as a temp or in school or running a buisiness, then I consider you employed. Sitting on Farcebook or the couch collecting the benifits is NOT employed)

I was filling out an application a while back that said to list previous employers, and it said in bold letters "Do Not Count Temp Agencies as Employment, only list permanent positions."

Made me do a double check, why would they not count?

Brad

In this economy It's hard enough for anyone to get any type of job, especially if they are hard at work applying and working on resumes half of the day. I'm just saying if they are unemployed for 4-6 months and couldn't get a second job at a McDonald's doesn't mean they lack initiative.

My dad has been unemployed for 10 months doing IT when his company phased out of AS400 into a new system, so naturally they phased in new people who knew the system and laid off my dad's team. He worked there for 30 years, and has been applying to just about every AS400 job on the east coast and only has had 3 interviews and none would even call back. In the mean time he has been applying for just about any job within 30 minutes just to be making some money on top of unemployment. This economy is rough no mattoter how you look at it. It's getting to the point where we will have to move potentially and we'll just have to accept it.

quote Originally posted by miketria: In this economy It's hard enough for anyone to get any type of job, especially if they are hard at work applying and working on resumes half of the day. I'm just saying if they are unemployed for 4-6 months and couldn't get a second job at a McDonald's doesn't mean they lack initiative. My dad has been unemployed for 10 months doing IT when his company phased out of AS400 into a new system, so naturally they phased in new people who knew the system and laid off my dad's team. He worked there for 30 years, and has been applying to just about every AS400 job on the east coast and only has had 3 interviews and none would even call back. In the mean time he has been applying for just about any job within 30 minutes just to be making some money on top of unemployment. This economy is rough no mattoter how you look at it. It's getting to the point where we will have to move potentially and we'll just have to accept it.

sorry. as an IT person myself - you MUST keep yourself current. I take at least 1 class every year at my local community college. If you grow stale along with the equipment - you are gonna get tossed with that same equipment......

anyways - not sure what kind of unemployment layout your state has - but, here in Michigan - unemployment would be working WITH your dad to get updated on his IT skills. c'mon, you pay more for a Bluetooth Headset than you would a AS400 system.

Yesterday I stopped for lunch at a relatively new bbq place, I think its been there about a year. I was talking with the owner/guy running the place and he said he was laid off from his corporate steel sales job a few years ago and couldn't find work in his field. After finding no jobs for a while, he bought a pig roaster and setup a walk-up bbq business under a tent in the local grocery store parking lot. He did well enough in that parking lot that he financed a building a block away from that grocery store and now he's running his own bbq joint, along with this wife and daughter. He didn't sit around on his a$$ and do the woes-me. Its people like THAT that make this country, not lazy joe's sitting around waiting for a job to find them. I was impressed with his resourcefulness and now he's his own boss with a smoker out back and a stack of fire wood. I'm actually envious, not a bad lifestyle. He told me he knew nothing about the food services industry or anything about bbq, but he learned/is learning as he goes.

[This message has been edited by Rainman (edited 07-27-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Rainman: Yesterday I stopped for lunch at a relatively new bbq place, I think its been there about a year. I was talking with the owner/guy running the place and he said he was laid off from his corporate steel sales job a few years ago and couldn't find work in his field. After finding no jobs for a while, he bought a pig roaster and setup a walk-up bbq business under a tent in the local grocery store parking lot. He did well enough in that parking lot that he financed a building a block away from that grocery store and now he's running his own bbq joint, along with this wife and daughter. He didn't sit around on his a$$ and do the woes-me. Its people like THAT that make this country, not lazy joe's sitting around waiting for a job to find them. I was impressed with his resourcefulness and now he's his own boss with a smoker out back and a stack of fire wood. I'm actually envious, not a bad lifestyle. He told me he knew nothing about the food services industry or anything about bbq, but he learned/is learning as he goes.

That's AWESOME.

The only thing keeping me from doing the same thing (besides startup capital) is that in the restaurant biz in my home county, many have taken a hit from the economy. Less are eating out, and many fringe and new restaurants shut down in 2008. Economic downturn hit our county harder than most... no one has the $$$ to go out to eat, restaurant parking lots have been pretty empty. It would be risky, but sounds like fun. Plus I am friends with the local BBQ shop owner, I dont think he would take it well.

quote Originally posted by Fiero84Freak: The fact isn't that the second job likely sucks. Here's why I think it's important - a second job shows; Going to be kind of hard to explain to potential employers why he's not bringing in any income that's not unemployment.

So, do you have kids? My son really likes to see me around sometimes. Taking care of my rental properties already gets in the way some, I try to take him with me if the work will be quick.

I worked a second job in my early 20s, we were having 10 and 12 hour days doing industrial construction and I fell asleep at the wheel while doing a sign delivery job. I decided one job was enough then. In my late 20s' I had a job that had mandatory overtime / on call. I took all I could get and when we had a run of defective parts that wore out quickly I had lots of hours. I got so tired, I had a breaking point where I got lost and woke up at Taco Bell after a 6 hour plus sleep with a uneaten burrito in my hand. They said I look tired ad decided to let me sleep. I had the other guys take their turn after that and would just cover the days they were busy. Too much work is not for everybody.

Do you think I should put down that I am my own property manager for 7 residents? Will that let others know that I am interested in working or tell them them that I have another agenda?

quote Originally posted by tbone42: That's AWESOME. The only thing keeping me from doing the same thing (besides startup capital) is that in the restaurant biz in my home county, many have taken a hit from the economy. Less are eating out, and many fringe and new restaurants shut down in 2008. Economic downturn hit our county harder than most... no one has the $$$ to go out to eat, restaurant parking lots have been pretty empty. It would be risky, but sounds like fun. Plus I am friends with the local BBQ shop owner, I dont think he would take it well.

Yea, Clinton county has taken a beating and can't seem to recover. I think starting something up in Clinton county would be a big gamble and likely a loss.

http://www.wnewsj.com/main....156&ArticleID=191290

The unemployment rate in June among Clinton Countians went up almost a point from the rate in May, going from 13.2 percent to 14.1 percent.

The county adjacent to Clinton County posting the lowest jobless rate in June is Warren County, where the rate registered 8.1 percent.

[This message has been edited by Rainman (edited 07-27-2011).]

By the way, any earned income is supposed to be reported to unemployment so, it is sort of a wobbler as to if a low paying couple hour second job helps with your income. Kind of hard to figure out where swapping a motor on a buddies truck falls in that resume or reporting to the unemployment department.

quote Originally posted by Rainman: Yesterday I stopped for lunch at a relatively new bbq place, I think its been there about a year. I was talking with the owner/guy running the place and he said he was laid off from his corporate steel sales job a few years ago and couldn't find work in his field. After finding no jobs for a while, he bought a pig roaster and setup a walk-up bbq business under a tent in the local grocery store parking lot. He did well enough in that parking lot that he financed a building a block away from that grocery store and now he's running his own bbq joint, along with this wife and daughter. He didn't sit around on his a$$ and do the woes-me. Its people like THAT that make this country, not lazy joe's sitting around waiting for a job to find them. I was impressed with his resourcefulness and now he's his own boss with a smoker out back and a stack of fire wood. I'm actually envious, not a bad lifestyle. He told me he knew nothing about the food services industry or anything about bbq, but he learned/is learning as he goes.

That I like. There are 2 guys that live as tenants in our building that I like to compare and contrast. I don`t really like either of them.

One guy has been on welfare disabillity for years, and everytime he has money problems its `the gov owes me this, and didn`t get it to me in time blah blah blah`

The other guy looks a little ragged and we really have nothing in common. Works as a mover. That guy hustles to make rent. He works all week, does private moves with a truck thats falling apart on the weekend and when he can, he takes all the stuff that people are getting rid of when they move and sells it in a garage sale.

I may not really like him, but I do respect his ethic.

quote Originally posted by Rainman: Yea, Clinton county has taken a beating and can't seem to recover. I think starting something up in Clinton county would be a big gamble and likely a loss. http://www.wnewsj.com/main....156&ArticleID=191290 The unemployment rate in June among Clinton Countians went up almost a point from the rate in May, going from 13.2 percent to 14.1 percent. The county adjacent to Clinton County posting the lowest jobless rate in June is Warren County, where the rate registered 8.1 percent.

In Spring of 2008, I had extra investment capital. I ALMOST bought one of the downtown shops in Wilmington. It was only 56k, and was in fantastic shape, just redone. Well, my wife put the ki-bosh on it because she felt it would have eaten our savings without possibly contibuting much back for the first year. She was right. If we had bought it, we would not only have lost the shop, but probably our house.

Then a medical supply store took the shop for even less (Its called D-med on south street right by the courthouse if you are familliar with Wilmington proper..) they seem to be making it work. Good for them, I probably would have tanked. Thankfully, the savings I dint spend on the new shop have kept us afloat along with some other actions I have had to take, including selling stuff I didnt want to part with. It happens.

I cannot believe the unemployment rate went back up above 14% here. Yikes.