With a lot of talk about the poor, do we know what it means to be "poor" in America today? Here is an excerpt from an article about the average poor person in America:

quote ”[3] In 2005, the typical household defined as poor by the government had a car and air conditioning. For entertainment, the household had two color televisions, cable or satellite TV, a DVD player, and a VCR. If there were children, especially boys, in the home, the family had a game system, such as an Xbox or a PlayStation.[4] In the kitchen, the household had a refrigerator, an oven and stove, and a microwave. Other household conveniences included a clothes washer, clothes dryer, ceiling fans, a cordless phone, and a coffee maker. The home of the typical poor family was not overcrowded and was in good repair. In fact, the typical poor American had more living space than the average European. The typical poor American family was also able to obtain medical care when needed. By its own report, the typical family was not hungry and had sufficient funds during the past year to meet all essential needs. Poor families certainly struggle to make ends meet, but in most cases, they are struggling to pay for air conditioning and the cable TV bill as well as to put food on the table.

Add to the list cell phones too. About every adult and half the kids in the ghetto have cell phones.

You can bet that all of the numbers are higher in this chart today since these are 2005 numbers.


http://www.heritage.org/res...1/07/what-is-poverty

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I have all those items except for the coffee maker.

I'm poor. I don't have a keg fridge, , .

I don't have 11 of those items listed, and if I hadn't bought a printer/copier last year, it would be 13.

[This message has been edited by Rainman (edited 07-20-2011).]

it is all in where you draw the line of who is Poor.

I am sure over 1/2 the people right here on PFF would fall into most "Poor" categories.

one of my weekend activities after doing yardwork is riding my bicycle out to the local park, and hang with the bums, drinking 40's & throwing horseshoes. not one has a Xbox. a few have a place to stay, always shared, and they do have a TV & the basics - but - hangs by a thread. yes, most of these are true "bums", some are just "going thru" this or that - recent divorce, jobloss, whatever, and some are "getting it together" and moving forward.

I ate out of a dumpster and stole food when I was a kid. Did that make me poor?

The population I work with is about 5 miles from a major research university. The students are commonly seen driving $50K plus cars and living in very nice homes/condos/etc. The local community I work with has a poverty rate of MORE than 99% with a 2% margin of error. Poverty, in this case, is operationally defined as a family of four having a gross income of 18k or less annually.

Within the past year, I took a mother to the store to teach her about making healthy grocery shopping choices. She is (was) too proud to take any handouts. Her budget for her and her entire family was $12 a WEEK!!! Not a whole lot of decisions to make in those cases.

In all the international traveling I have been able to do, to many very poor, under-developed nations, I have very rarely seen poverty that exceeds what I see almost daily right under our noses here.

In my humble opinion, the cycle of poverty will remain until we are able to educate young people about birth-control, educational options, finance, savings, health, etc in an HONEST manner. My reference on this is: a 15 year old mother has likely not had a mother to teach her how to BE a mother herself. The child of this 15 year old mother also is uneducated about these CHOICES. We need to move beyond the P.C. and blind-eye movement and "be the change we want to see in the world." We will and are paying as a nation for the lack of tough love and attention to those living in this cycle.

quote Originally posted by Rainman: I don't have 11 of those items listed, and if I hadn't bought a printer/copier last year, it would be 13.

I'm with you bro. I don't have AT LEAST 11, maybe a bit more depending on how somethings are categorized. IE, I don't own a DVD player, but I can play them in something if I needed. I also don't have a PC, but have a dozen laptops. If you took them for exactly what things were, my number would be closer to 15. If I didn't have a roommate, even higher. I would say the impoverished definitely don't have it as bad as MANY other countries. I did note, it said no household had all 30 items.

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I made that up now!

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I ate out of a dumpster and stole food when I was a kid. Did that make me poor?

depends if you were going hungry or just doing it for fun!


as to the list...we have 26 of the things listed and barely squeak in over the "poverty line" here. If it included anything about cars, there'd be a few more points. We want for nothing because we don't piss our money away(on take out, video games, paying someone else to fix things for us, car payments, etc) like 95% of the people out there. No offense to those who do(just don't expect sympathy from me cuz you can't pay your cell phone bill or when your car is being repo'd -- that's your own damned fault).

There are 19 items on the list that I don't have. And I only really would like 1 or 2 of those.

It's all relative whether someone is poor.

Someone could have the bulk of that list and be poor by American standards. Yet, they would be rich in the eyes of many around the world who own not much more than the clothes on their backs.

quote Originally posted by Fformula88: It's all relative whether someone is poor.

That's true. I'm damn near destitute compared to some of the people I know and wealthy compared to others.

It's a matter of perspective, I guess.

Most of the poor people i know barely can keep their lights on and their place warm. Don't have a phone, or internet, or big screen tv.

Thanks to the FCC being bought by the cable companies, rabbit ears no longer work on the old tube tv so they often have basic cable, but that's about it for 'extras'.

Do useless TVs without digital conversion equipment count?I was thinking of turning one into a planter.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 07-20-2011).]

quote Originally posted by tbone42: Do useless TVs without digital conversion equipment count?I was thinking of turning one into a planter.

Grumpy Old Men moment...

How could you do this to a 1950 Super Zenith?!?

Interesting graph, I notice the facts are before the 2008 market crash and are for "households"... plenty of poor people don't have houses.

From the same article

quote Although the majority of poor families have an adequate and reasonably steady supply of food, many worry about keeping food on the table, and one in five experienced temporary food shortages at various times in 2009. Those who are without food or homeless will find no comfort in the fact that their condition is relatively infrequent. Their distress is real and a serious concern.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 07-20-2011).]

quote Originally posted by tbone42: Do useless TVs without digital conversion equipment count?I was thinking of turning one into a planter.

There are still a few low powered analog stations out there. I can (very poorly) receive two here.

Let's face it. We are not all created equal. There will always be stupid people making stupid decisions. How many people run out of money for food because they are paying a shabillion percent interest to rent-a-center for their big screen tv? Sure some people just have shitty luck, but a lot of people make bad decisions too. They are lucky they are in the US where there is so much wasted food thrown out for them to eat from the dumpster. Ever seen a rent a center in the same mall as a Neiman Marcus?
The poor people I know, are way overextended on credit, and do not make good reasonable decisions with their spending. The wealthy people I know live wellllllll below their means.


Stealing food to eat does not make you poor, it makes you a thief.

I have 16 items on the list; however I don't consider myself rich. Heck some items like a ceiling fan only cost $30 to install and pennies a month to run. Unlike other measures on there like internet and cable TV which are re-occuring bills every month, $100 + around me (and I do not have these luxeries).

I wonder where cell phones stand. These days I see advertising on TV for free cell phones sponsored by the government. I do have some problems with the government paying for cell phones but my real issue is where the government overpays for the cell phones to the point that carriers make enough extra money to run mutiple advertisement a day on TV for the hand out.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: You can bet that all of the numbers are higher in this chart today since these are 2005 numbers.

I love the Heritage website... I get their newsletter too.

But a couple of things. The unemployment rate has increased significantly since 2005, so I would guess those percentages might have taken a little hit, and second... are they counting the people with refridgerators that are sitting in their front yard but aren't hooked up to anything? (hahah...)

But I totally understand the point of your post though, and agree with it.

quote Originally posted by psychosurfer: In all the international traveling I have been able to do, to many very poor, under-developed nations, I have very rarely seen poverty that exceeds what I see almost daily right under our noses here.

Be careful here. You are threatening a cherished political fantasy that poor people (at least here in the U.S.) are poor because they somehow deserve to be.

quote In my humble opinion, the cycle of poverty will remain until we are able to educate young people about birth-control, educational options, finance, savings, health, etc in an HONEST manner.

Amen. I would also add to your list effective early-childhood education in impulse control. There is an accumulating body of recent social research which indicates that impulse control (the ability to delay immediate gratification) at age 3 or 4 is a strong predictor of educational achievement, as well as social and financial success, as an adult, with an even stronger correlation than measured intelligence (IQ).

Yes, some people are poor because, through bad life decisions, they choose to be. But most are locked in a cycle of poverty because they were born poor and never learned how to live any other way. It's a dark aspect of our dedication to perpetuating "family values." And an increasing number of working Americans descend into poverty each year due to monumental medical expenses that are well beyond their reasonable ability to pay.

Anecdote: Years ago I had a professional acquaintance who was a super-achiever (PhD in physics, worked at a prestigious national research lab, worked as a volunteer paramedic on his time off, etc.), but he had always struck me as somewhat proud and arrogant. Then one night after an exhausting day-long business meeting several of us retired to a bar to decompress. He and one other guy in the group were surprised to learn that they had both grown up in some of the poorer sections New York City, the other guy in Chinatown and my friend in the Jewish slums of Flatbush. At some point in the conversation my friend's facial expression and demeanor changed to wistful: "Growing up ... I guess today it would be called a 'gang,' but back then it was just the guys in the neighborhood hanging out together. We never did anything really bad ... but all of those guys I grew up with are either dead or in prison now. I'm the only one who made it out." What makes the difference? There is a Nobel Prize awaiting anyone who can figure that out.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 07-21-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: With a lot of talk about the poor, do we know what it means to be "poor" in America today? Here is an excerpt from an article about the average poor person in America: Add to the list cell phones too. About every adult and half the kids in the ghetto have cell phones. http://www.heritage.org/res...1/07/what-is-poverty .

From your "source":

quote Founded in 1973, The Heritage Foundation is a research and educational institution—a think tank—whose mission is to formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense.

Hardly "Fair and Balanced ^tm, is it.
In fact, it is very suspect.

quote Originally posted by Nurb432: Most of the poor people I know barely can keep their lights on and their place warm. Don't have a phone, or internet, or big screen tv. Thanks to the FCC being bought by the cable companies, rabbit ears no longer work on the old tube tv so they often have basic cable, but that's about it for 'extras'.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 07-21-2011).]