章子怡 is some very nice Chinese parts.

quote Originally posted by dobey: Unlike other poisons that the government subsidizes the production of, that go into almost every type of food there is any more.

Such as?

quote Originally posted by Will: Such as?

High Fructose Corn Syrup.

Is that a poison, or just responsible for obesity in sedentary individuals who eat too much? Wait... what?

Subsidized?

quote Originally posted by Will: Is that a poison, or just responsible for obesity in sedentary individuals who eat too much? Wait... what? Subsidized?

It is technically a poison, yes, though the FDA has obviously not classified it as such. HFCS is basically the chemical inverse of sugar. Same elements, but fused together differently. And the human body processes it differently than normal glucose sugars, as a result. It has been shown to create obesity in lab rats with controlled diets, and cases of diabetes in the US have been on the rise for a while now.

Corn is a subsidized crop in the US. Ever since the trade embargo on Cuba, we've consistently been using corn for more and more. It's the top agricultural subsidy in the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...ubsidy#United_States

As someone that deals with Chinese manufacturers, the blame first needs to be placed on the company that wrote the specs for the parts. The Chinese are quite capable of making quality parts but many US companies don't order those. They order cheap parts because they want to maximize their profit. If a company writes a spec that dictates a quality part, the Chinese will make it but it will cost more.

Over time, the company wants to reduce their costs so they pound on the Chinese manufacturer to reduce their costs. The Chinese tell you that you can't have that specific part for less. If you want it cheaper, change the spec. Guess what happens.

Stuff is cheap at Walmart because that is what Walmart asks for. True, much of it IS cheap Chinese crap, but that is usually what was specified.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 06-29-2011).]

quote Originally posted by dobey: Please, if you're going to complain about something coming from China being of poor quality, do not generalize as if everything coming from China is crap. State exactly what manufacturers are causing you problems. Call the Federal Trade Commision and complain to them about the specific manufacturer, and not a general rant about China. For what it's worth Timken is about to expand their manufacturing to China as well, adding to the numerous countries where they produce parts. I'm sure they will continue to enforce a higher quality in their production, regardless of where they are manufactured. If you really think everything from China is complete crap, then just go give away everything you own to someone else, and walk on up to the Ozarks, find a cave, crawl inside, and never leave. It's the only way you're going to live in these United States in the 21st Century, and not have anything made outside the country. The world economy is a global space, and with billions of people to build a work force out of, you can bet your entitled American ass that only more and more companies are going to expand manufacturing of goods to China and India eventually as well. If you want to rant about China, go over to the Off Topic forum and have a ball with ulahnstan. If you want to talk about specific problems with parts from specific manufacturers, then Tech is a good place for it. But Tech isn't the place for socio-political rants. Just like the 70s TV commercials with the Native American telling you not to litter the streets, please stop littering the forums, and put your garbage in the right place.

actually everything that comes from china is actually crap. they use crap steel and everything in china that is made form steel is made from crap china steel so you have to generalize. and as for your 70's crying indian he wasnt even an indian he was russian (if i remember correctly) but he definatly wasnt indian. so sufficive to say everything from china is really crap and will break sooner than something made in america (from steel at least).

edited to add:
i have to agree tho while informing others of dookie parts is good calling the FTC is the best bet. its about time the gov works for our money.

[This message has been edited by Niterrorz (edited 06-29-2011).]

After reading this I got to talking to the wife about it. We were lucky with our critters during "The poison dog food from China" thing but now I have started to think about...

What if the poisoned lets say our toilet paper, Rubbing alcohol or any product we use daily like shampoo, soap or toothpaste dispenser. I wonder if the dog thingy was a marker to see how far and deep they could get an attack inside our borders...

Things that make ya go humm

quote High Fructose Corn Syrup.

Glucose is poison? Better get rid of that granulated sugar in the cabinet.
Fructose is poison? Better burn down apple orchards.

WTF? Isn't this supposed to be about faulty components that have the potential to cause serious injuries when the fail?

[This message has been edited by Xyster (edited 06-30-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Xyster: Glucose is poison? Better get rid of that granulated sugar in the cabinet. Fructose is poison? Better burn down apple orchards. WTF? Isn't this supposed to be about faulty components that have the potential to cause serious injuries when the fail?

HFCS is not glucose. Nor is it fructose.

And I thought it was about bitching about stuff from China. I think some hub bearing was mentioned in the middle of the moaning, but mostly the noun in the OP was "China" as best I can tell. No mention of any brands, or manufacturers.

This really should have been in TOT in the first place, since it doesn't talk about any technical specifics. Mostly just people jumping on the hate-China political bandwagon.

quote Originally posted by dobey: HFCS is not glucose. Nor is it fructose. And I thought it was about bitching about stuff from China. I think some hub bearing was mentioned in the middle of the moaning, but mostly the noun in the OP was "China" as best I can tell. No mention of any brands, or manufacturers. This really should have been in TOT in the first place, since it doesn't talk about any technical specifics. Mostly just people jumping on the hate-China political bandwagon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...-fructose_corn_syrup

quote Originally posted by OP: Just changed a read bearing hub today for a guy. He was one who decided to save money and install a Chinese made bearing hub on the rear left of his 3.4L Fiero. The owner told me that it never ran as quiet as the stock unit bit it worked, well for six months and 5 k miles! Then the grinding noise started getting bad. We pulled out that hub and it was nasty. The steel used on those Chinese hubs is very soft. I've handled new ones and the side to side play is like 1/16" right out of the box. Just for reference I hit an old used Fiero hub that was here in the garage with a hammer and no dent was apparent. Hit the hub plate on the Chinese and a flat mark appeared. A word to the wise; use only Timken, BCA or Bower USA made bearing hubs. The Chinese hubs are of LOW bottom of the barrel quality and won't last. I've read stories online that they even break apart on occasion. Whats your life worth?

Nope. The hub bearing was in the first post.

Now, let's get back on topic.

[This message has been edited by Xyster (edited 06-30-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Xyster: Nope. The hub bearing was in the first post. Now, let's get back on topic.

http://www.archevore.com/pa...ohydrates-revis.html

And I never said a hub bearing wasn't mentioned. But what wasn't mentioned, was who made it, where it was purchased, etc… In fact, it was only assumed that it was Chinese, afaict. And people jump on the anti-China bandwagon. While I am simply asking for specific information, and recommending that specific information be also given to the FTC, so that the bad parts can be avoided, and dealt with properly.

quote Originally posted by dobey: While I am simply asking for specific information, and recommending that specific information be also given to the FTC, so that the bad parts can be avoided, and dealt with properly.

The way to avoid bad parts is in the title of this thread (it's what the thread is about).
Do not use Chinese made rear bearing hubs.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: The way to avoid bad parts is in the title of this thread (it's what the thread is about). Do not use Chinese made rear bearing hubs.

Then answer the questions I posed about what specific parts are in question. Do not blanket the answer with "**** China" because it's not the answer. I have gotten bad parts from everywhere. If that's your answer to everything, then the only suitable answer for you is to get rid of everything you own, and never buy anything else. But we both know that's not going to happen.

So again WHAT ARE THE SPECIFIC BRANDS, PART NUMBERS, and MANUFACTURERS?

quote Originally posted by dobey: WHAT ARE THE SPECIFIC BRANDS, PART NUMBERS, and MANUFACTURERS?

ALL OF THEM

At least as far as aftermarket replacement bearings are concerned.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 06-30-2011).]

Another good company gone bad = Black & Decker. Use to be proud to have their stuff in my garage/tool box, however now EVERYTHING they make is coming from China, and most of it is plastic and sucks @ass.

quote Originally posted by Will: ALL OF THEM At least as far as aftermarket replacement bearings are concerned.

Well, that would imply you couldn't get anything that wasn't, making this thread pointless. Was it your bearing that Dennis replaced? Do you have pics of it, part #s, etc…? If Dennis could provide the relevant information about the part in question, it would be useful. That information is:

Brand
Part #
Serial # (if applicable)
Manufacturer
Actual Origin
Place of Purchase

This is the useful information needed to work against bad parts. And this is the information the FTC would need, from multiple people experiencing the same problems, to take any real action.

And Dennis, did you replace one, or both? Were both of the already installed ones the same? Was the other still original? Can you actually provide the relevant information I listed here that would be required by FTC, lawyers, etc… to be able to take any action?

quote Originally posted by TK: As someone that deals with Chinese manufacturers, the blame first needs to be placed on the company that wrote the specs for the parts. The Chinese are quite capable of making quality parts but many US companies don't order those. They order cheap parts because they want to maximize their profit. If a company writes a spec that dictates a quality part, the Chinese will make it but it will cost more. Over time, the company wants to reduce their costs so they pound on the Chinese manufacturer to reduce their costs. The Chinese tell you that you can't have that specific part for less. If you want it cheaper, change the spec. Guess what happens. Stuff is cheap at Walmart because that is what Walmart asks for. True, much of it IS cheap Chinese crap, but that is usually what was specified.

China is also one of the most pervasively corrupt countries in the world. Are the companies that behave as you describe the norm or the exception?

There absolutely are dishonest manufacturers in China. They make fake Walbro and Bosch fuel pumps. The fake Walbros even say "Made in USA" on them.

There's a Chinese company producing knock off versions of BMW's GT1 diagnostic scanner. The knock offs say "Made in Germany" on them.

I would not doubt for a second that there are Chinese manufacturers that will accept a specification as you described and produce junk that doesn't even come close. Which companies are which? I don't know. Good luck figuring it out.

quote Originally posted by dobey: Well, that would imply you couldn't get anything that wasn't, making this thread pointless. Was it your bearing that Dennis replaced? Do you have pics of it, part #s, etc…? If Dennis could provide the relevant information about the part in question, it would be useful. That information is: Brand Part # Serial # (if applicable) Manufacturer Actual Origin Place of Purchase This is the useful information needed to work against bad parts. And this is the information the FTC would need, from multiple people experiencing the same problems, to take any real action.

Do you think the distributor will actually tell you who manufactured the hub?

Am I the only one here who's read Sun Tzu?

The Chinese are waging economic war on us. The Chinese government purposely pegs their currency to the dollar so that Chinese imports are always cheap in the US. If you don't believe me, read "The Art of War". It's the owner's manual for the Chinese mind.

quote Originally posted by Will: Do you think the distributor will actually tell you who manufactured the hub? Am I the only one here who's read Sun Tzu? The Chinese are waging economic war on us. The Chinese government purposely pegs their currency to the dollar so that Chinese imports are always cheap in the US. If you don't believe me, read "The Art of War". It's the owner's manual for the Chinese mind.

I'm sorry. I thought this was the "Technical Discussion & Questions" forum, and not the "Xenophobes Against China" one. Clearly I'm mistaking this site as being about Fieros, despite its title. And I don't expect the distributor to necessarily know who manufactured it, no. The people at AutoZone don't instill such confidence. But both distributor and manufacturer are important pieces of information, whether you can get one piece from the other, or not. But the fact is, that it's traceable.

China doesn't need to "wage economic war" on us. We're plenty good at screwing up our economy without anyone's help. China didn't destroy our housing market or our banks. We did. China isn't destroying our economy. We are. Stop blaming everyone else and take responsibility for your own actions.

And yes, I've read The Art of War, The Prince, Tao Teh Ching, and plenty of other books. Just because you're a paranoid xenophobe, doesn't mean it's actually happening. This isn't 1943 France.

[This message has been edited by dobey (edited 07-01-2011).]

quote Originally posted by dobey: I'm sorry. I thought this was the "Technical Discussion & Questions" forum, and not the "Xenophobes Against China" one. Clearly I'm mistaking this site as being about Fieros, despite its title. And I don't expect the distributor to necessarily know who manufactured it, no. The people at AutoZone don't instill such confidence. But both distributor and manufacturer are important pieces of information, whether you can get one piece from the other, or not. But the fact is, that it's traceable. China doesn't need to "wage economic war" on us. We're plenty good at screwing up our economy without anyone's help. China didn't destroy our housing market or our banks. We did. China isn't destroying our economy. We are. And yes, I've read The Art of War, The Prince, Tao Teh Ching, and plenty of other books. Just because you're a paranoid xenophobe, doesn't mean it's actually happening. This isn't 1943 France.

Is it paranoia if they really *are* out to get you?
Did you miss the part about the renminbi being pegged to the US dollar? Were you not paying attention when President Obama spoke with Pres Juntao about it and was told "we can go lower"?
If they allowed their currency to float the way almost every other currency in the world does, their increasing prosperity would cause their currency to rise, changing the price-competitiveness of Chinese exports.
Just because we're screwing ourselves up doesn't mean they're not *also* pulling themselves up by trying to pull us down.
Also, just because you're naively expecting everyone in the world to place nice, doesn't mean they are.

While it may be "traceable" in that there is a theoretical method to trace it, I don't think that the information is available to joe consumer.

quote Originally posted by dobey: Stop blaming everyone else and take responsibility for your own actions.

Excuse me?

The first three posts are borderline GFC stuff. From post 3 onwards it's TO/T so that's where I'm moving this thread to.

Ahh--now, let the real discussion begin.

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Just changed a read bearing hub today for a guy. He was one who decided to save money and install a Chinese made bearing hub on the rear left of his 3.4L Fiero. The owner told me that it never ran as quiet as the stock unit bit it worked, well for six months and 5 k miles! Then the grinding noise started getting bad. We pulled out that hub and it was nasty. The steel used on those Chinese hubs is very soft. I've handled new ones and the side to side play is like 1/16" right out of the box. Just for reference I hit an old used Fiero hub that was here in the garage with a hammer and no dent was apparent. Hit the hub plate on the Chinese and a flat mark appeared. A word to the wise; use only Timken, BCA or Bower USA made bearing hubs. The Chinese hubs are of LOW bottom of the barrel quality and won't last. I've read stories online that they even break apart on occasion. Whats your life worth?

Hey Dennis, how would I know if thats what I've got? I bought a set from the Fiero Store about 5-6 years ago... haven't installed them yet though. They're still in the box.

quote Originally posted by 02greens10: My dad had this Chinese drill bit set that when we tried to drill some steel it untwisted completely. Chinese bearings anything I stay away from if I can and that's pretty tough. I just got a AC Delco 4.9 waterpump and it's from China.

I had one of those drill bit sets too. I've broken hundreds of bits, but those Chinese bits were the first ones that I'd ever seen that the grooves twisted in the other direction. My bearing story involved an Advance Auto Mexican made throw-out bearing on my Mustang. It lasted 3 months before it made my Mustang sound like it had a diesel engine when the tranny was in neutral. They wanted to give me a new one. I got my money back and bought a Timken. Saving money cost me 8 hours of my life. Funny how cheap parts cost in other ways.

Briggs and Stratton will be building their motors there, think the new plant is about to open.
Love Tsingtao beer!
Love to import one Chinese sex slave for each of you, over 18 of course!

Gee's...has anyone bought a SKF rear bearing before?? Those are really good bearings and have a good reputation for quality...no??

------------------
fierogt28

88 GT, Loaded, 5-speed.
88 GT, 5-speed. All original.

quote Originally posted by dobey: No 'nation' on this planet is an island,

Ahem....Australia is

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: The first three posts are borderline GFC stuff. From post 3 onwards it's TO/T so that's where I'm moving this thread to.

Whatever lets you pretend you're an effective moderator, I guess...

Corporate greed is what it is. Here or in china.

I am a welder by trade and Chinese steel is the worst. They say it is to our codes but it never is, never. Ever try to weld something that is supposed to be a certain grade? Only to find all your hard work was for nothing because the whole thing has to be redone with better grade made in USA.
And we have to cut out all the cheap crap Chinese steel. Making even more work to finish a project because some pencil pusher thought it was a good idea to by cheaper junk to save money. Only to have cost more because of rework.
Steve



------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.

Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 07-08-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Will: Whatever lets you pretend you're an effective moderator, I guess...

Because he can!

When the body was first formed all of the parts wanted to be the boss.
The brain, eyes, heart and so on.
When the butt chimed in, the rest laughed and laughed.
The butt hole then clamped up.
Soon the body was in such big trouble they had to give in.
Moral of the story;
Doesn't take a brain to be a boss, just a butt hole.
And sometimes Cliff is required to be one.

quote Originally posted by couldahadaV8: This is getting off topic, but, do any of you guys fly anywhere? Does it bother you that parts of virtually every commercial aircraft and engine these days come from China? There are very good parts from China and very bad ones. You can rant all you want, but sometimes you just don't have a choice where things are made.

If everett and seattle are in china, id believe that. Boeing is built in the usa.

GE Pratt and CFM all make engines in the USA.

the qa depts of these companies assure all foriegn sourced parts made in planes and engines are of excellent quality.

[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 07-08-2011).]

Asia isn't just China. From the John Deere annual report:

quote Introduced in 2010, the John Deere 5036C tractor was designed and built in India to help increase mechanization and food production. The two 5C models, with 35 and 41 horsepower, are the fi rst John Deere tractors designed in India. Engineering and design responsibility for the company’s entire global utility tractor line was transferred to India in 2010.

I've known for years only to buy Timken bearings. That's all I ever use. A little more expensive but you get more than what you pay for.

One time a clerk at an auto parts store who didn't have a Timken told me the bearing was made in the USA, I looked at the box and it said distributed in the USA, made in Korea.

[This message has been edited by Tigger (edited 07-08-2011).]

The MAIN problem ehre it that 80+% of the population don't really give a crap about quality so as long as it is cheap. The Wallymarts/etc wouldn't exist otherwise, so until the majority of the population rethinks their spending habits companies will continue to outsource their manufacturing to the Asian countries. That or the goberment grows a pair and forces retailers to carry a certain % of locally (as in country) made/produced items/foods the slide into the great abyss will continue...

quote Originally posted by Tigger: Was that really necessary? I was worried for a second but I'm glad you qualified it by saying over 18. Hey did you ever find your mail order bride? Honestly, people here really creep me out.

Well if you had a sense of humor, you would have known it was a joke when you got to the 18 part.
The fact that you gave it much thought kind of creeps me out!

quote Originally posted by AusFiero: Ahem....Australia is

So is Iceland and New Zealand.

Singapore and Maylasia are also "all Island." lol

quote Originally posted by Will: Whatever lets you pretend you're an effective moderator, I guess...

He can do whatever he wants. We are only guests here, and tossing insults at our host wont win you any points.

But back on topic, my old Sebring would run thru a set of wheel bearings in the back every 6 months. i wonder if it was due to the same reason. I got them from the local auto parts chain store, but i don't think it ever said the country of origin on the box.

[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 07-08-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Nurb432: He can do whatever he wants. We are only guests here, and tossing insults at our host wont win you any points. But back on topic, my old Sebring would run thru a set of wheel bearings in the back every 6 months. i wonder if it was due to the same reason. I got them from the local auto parts chain store, but i don't think it ever said the country of origin on the box.

Sometimes they simply say "China" (or the country of origin) on the part, the box, or if the part has destructions,(directions) on them.

A friend gets a lot of licensed GM reproduction parts made in Taiwan. The quality of them is often better than the USA originals. He rejects poor quality until they get it right.
So the point there is you get what you pay for. Pay for crap the Chinese will make you crap. Pay more and get better, like anywhere.

So you think your USA cars used to be USA made? He reproduces 60s, 70s and 80s parts and at a trade show in Taiwan once a manufacturer gave him a great price on a 60s steering component. Why? The guy still had the dies from when he used to make them for GM.

Yes China does produce some cheap crap. But that is because that is what people are willing to pay for. Pay the manufacturers better and you get better, and apparently Taiwan produces better quality than mainland China in general.

In a world economy where manufacturing has shifted to the countries with cheaper labour you just have to learn to adapt and get into other industries that benefit your country. For instance here where a lot of industry has closed tourism has become the mainstay due to the nice locations.