AP Photo/U.S. Mint A jeweler's heirs are fighting the United States government for the right to keep a batch of rare and valuable "Double Eagle" $20 coins that date back to the Franklin Roosevelt administration. It's just the latest coin controversy to make headlines.
Philadelphian Joan Langbord and her sons say they found the 10 coins in 2003 in a bank deposit box kept by Langbord's father, Israel Switt, a jeweler who died in 1990. But when they tried to have the haul authenticated by the U.S. Treasury, the feds, um, flipped.
They said the coins were stolen from the U.S. Mint back in 1933, and are the government's property. The Treasury Department seized the coins, and locked them away at Fort Knox. The court battle is set to kick off this week.
The rare coins (pictured), first struck in 1850, show a flying eagle on one side and a figure representing liberty on the other. One such coin recently sold at auction for $7.6 million, meaning the Langbords' trove could be worth as much as $80 million.
The coins are part of a batch that were struck but then melted down after President Roosevelt took the country off the gold standard in 1933, during the Great Depression. Two were given to the Smithsonian Institute, but a few more mysteriously escaped.
The government has long believed that Switt schemed with a corrupt cashier at the Mint to swipe the coins. They note that the deposit box in which the coins were found was rented six years after Switt's death, and that the family never paid inheritance tax on the coins.
A lawyer for the Langbords counters that the coins could have left the Mint legally since it was permissible to swap gold coins for gold bullion.
Authorities in the Roosevelt era twice looked into Switt's coin dealings, including his possession of Double Eagle coins. In 1944, Switt's license to deal scrap gold was revoked.
The battle over the Double Eagles is hardly the only recent coin contretemps. Two British metal-detecting enthusiasts are said to be locked in a bitter dispute over how to divide the profits from a horde of Iron Age gold coins that they unearthed together in eastern England in 2008.
And an 80-year-old California man was jailed in 2009 after allegedly hitting another man in the head with a metal pipe and firing a gun at a third man during a dispute over missing gold coins.
Some coin disputes involve more than wrangling over valuable collectors' items. In 2007, Secret Service and FBI agents raided an Indiana company called Liberty Dollar, in a bid to stamp out illegal currency. The firm was making "Ron Paul Silver Dollars," in honor of Rep. Ron Paul, whose presidential campaign advocates bringing back the gold standard.
Without serial numbers, I just dont see how the government can prove they were stolen or just never spent and de-circulated. Hmm what an interesting case.
IP: Logged
04:26 PM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
Without serial numbers, I just dont see how the government can prove they were stolen or just never spent and de-circulated. Hmm what an interesting case.
Exactly what I was thinking, these coins were in circulation, so it's very plausible that the coins were obtained legally. Probably more plausible than the guy being the original Oceans 1
Exactly what I was thinking, these coins were in circulation, so it's very plausible that the coins were obtained legally. Probably more plausible than the guy being the original Oceans 1
Brad
Expect that i thought they made ownership illegal. No grandfather clause. Either way, the feds need to get a grip, there are far more important things going on that need addressed, instead of harassing some citizen over this.
Expect that i thought they made ownership illegal. No grandfather clause. Either way, the feds need to get a grip, there are far more important things going on that need addressed, instead of harassing some citizen over this.
To the Federal Government the coins are just worth the weight of gold in them right? But if sold they are worth taxes, and money flowing back into the economy.
To the Federal Government the coins are just worth the weight of gold in them right? But if sold they are worth taxes, and money flowing back into the economy.
Wasn't the ban on owning them taken away?
Brad
I also do think the ban was lifted, but if you had them during the ban they would still be technically illegal i bet.
IP: Logged
05:31 PM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
When the mint did a sampling of aluminum pennies, and gave them to congress for approval, none of them were returned like they were supposed to be. The crooks took them home. Think this was in the 70s.
The mints have a safe rooms where many pieces are kept. They include all various miss-strikes that are one of a kind. Many have been smuggled out through payoffs.
SBA dollars were smuggled out for payola after they stopped circulation on them.
Seen a mint bag of Jefferson nickles that got over done in the annealing oven, turned them black. They were found in a Seattle bank vault about the time the news hit that Jefferson had fathered a child with one of his slaves.
[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 07-07-2011).]
IP: Logged
05:33 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
So pay the inheritance tax on the $200 and be done with it. Can government charge you tax on more than the face value of government issued currency? (of course, government can and will do whatever the hell it wants) They'll probably try to tell them they have to pay inheritance tax on the "estimated worth" of $80 Million, and they have to forfeit the coins.
IP: Logged
07:56 PM
jetman Member
Posts: 7808 From: Sterling Heights Mich Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by doug.s: I've been following this story on a coin forum for a couple years now. Interesting to say the least! Doug I forgot to add that I believe the jury selection started today.
I'm interested in this case too. Say Doug, can you post a link to the coin forum you mentioned?
I'm flabergasted that they took the gold coins into the US Treasury. Not a bright idea to say the least. Isn't the US Treasure / Secret Service the very agencies in charge of the conviscation in the first place?
In as far as inheritance tax, they should have had an attorney along with the bank official open the box, count out 10 gold one ounce coins at the spot price, declare that on your taxes, keep your mouth shut for 7 years. You could move a couple over to a Canadian safe deposit box too, just thinking. Maybe take a one or two into PCGS or NGC for grading but NOT the US Treasury.
The US treasury says they're stolen coins, the onus is on the Langbord to prove otherwise.
Exactly what I was thinking, these coins were in circulation, so it's very plausible that the coins were obtained legally. Probably more plausible than the guy being the original Oceans 1
Brad
Actually Brad the 1933 Double Eagle gold coins never were put into circulation. It was that year when it became illegal to own gold coins, and if you had any, you were to turn it into the government. These coins were minted and before release they were to be destroyed. The 'gentleman' who got them out of the mint knew a worker and was able to secretly obtain them. It's actually quite the story.
I'm interested in this case too. Say Doug, can you post a link to the coin forum you mentioned?
I'm flabergasted that they took the gold coins into the US Treasury. Not a bright idea to say the least. Isn't the US Treasure / Secret Service the very agencies in charge of the conviscation in the first place?
In as far as inheritance tax, they should have had an attorney along with the bank official open the box, count out 10 gold one ounce coins at the spot price, declare that on your taxes, keep your mouth shut for 7 years. You could move a couple over to a Canadian safe deposit box too, just thinking. Maybe take a one or two into PCGS or NGC for grading but NOT the US Treasury. The US treasury says they're stolen coins, the onus is on the Langbord to prove otherwise.
Actually Brad the 1933 Double Eagle gold coins never were put into circulation. It was that year when it became illegal to own gold coins, and if you had any, you were to turn it into the government. These coins were minted and before release they were to be destroyed. The 'gentleman' who got them out of the mint knew a worker and was able to secretly obtain them. It's actually quite the story.
Doug
Well, if that is accurate, then the coins should be confusicated. Just because a thief got them long ago doesn't make it so his children can benefit from it. Just goes to show you, getting caught sucks.
Well, if that is accurate, then the coins should be confusicated. Just because a thief got them long ago doesn't make it so his children can benefit from it. Just goes to show you, getting caught sucks.
I should have said 'allegedly' got them in a secret deal That is one of the issues the government has with the ownership. The big one thought is since these were never released they are still illegal to own.
Doug
IP: Logged
09:50 PM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
Start collecting gold and silver. The government wants it all back. They want everyone to have their worthless paper and nothing else. I have started collecting silver and I will bet within 12 months you will be able to spend silver coins at retail outlets, because the paper is totally worthless.
IP: Logged
11:22 PM
Xanth Member
Posts: 6886 From: Massachusetts Registered: May 2006
All the hard work of the guys scheming to get the coins out of the Treasury and keep them hidden for years and years, all undone in moments by someone bringing them right back into the Treasury.
Sounds like it could make a good Guy Ritchie film.
Start collecting gold and silver. The government wants it all back. They want everyone to have their worthless paper and nothing else. I have started collecting silver and I will bet within 12 months you will be able to spend silver coins at retail outlets, because the paper is totally worthless.
What are you talking about? Right now it's legal to obtain both silver and gold. The Precious metal market has been on the rise for a couple of years. You could use silver now, but why would you when you will only get face value. Heck if I owned a store, I'd give you 7x face value for 40% coins and 15x face on 90% coins and I'd make a killing .
Doug
IP: Logged
11:48 PM
Jul 8th, 2011
faaaaq Member
Posts: 3856 From: Madison WI, USA Registered: Sep 2009
I should have said 'allegedly' got them in a secret deal That is one of the issues the government has with the ownership. The big one thought is since these were never released they are still illegal to own.
Doug
I'm confused on so many things here.
Brad
IP: Logged
09:41 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
I was thinking the same thing, and there is a statute of limitations on the crime of the theft of the coins. But the gold still belongs to the government, so if it is recovered, it gets given back to its rightful owner. Since the family can't be charged criminally for the theft, they can be charged with possession of stolen property. I wonder if the crime would be for the face value of the coins, or the current estimated value.
IP: Logged
04:49 PM
Jul 9th, 2011
jetman Member
Posts: 7808 From: Sterling Heights Mich Registered: Dec 2002
In the courtroom, jury selection took much of the first day. The process, as usual, was grindingly slow, but had its moments. Judge Davis asked a potential juror whether the fact that her husband collected coins would influence her. Did she share his hobby?
“I don’t collect coins,” she said. “I spend them.”
This is going to end up being a sad case for the family. They should of put them away and kept it the family secret forever.
And as for my earlier comment, yes I am stating that you should hoard gold and silver. Eventually the government may decide its unlawful to own it, and you can only have their monopoly money. Or everything goes digital. With gold and silver on the market there are ways around their phony paper.
IP: Logged
09:57 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
Well, if that is accurate, then the coins should be confusicated. Just because a thief got them long ago doesn't make it so his children can benefit from it.
Yes, surely no one here is suggesting that someone keep stolen items.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 07-12-2011).]
The government says they're stolen since the 33's were never issued. It's not like Mr. Switt could have broken down a few doors at the mint and made off with them. On the other hand, the records do show a window of opporitunity where gold could be exchanged at the cash window at the mint for paper money or gold for gold. The government said the mint had the quantity of 33 coins accounted for prior to meltdown, I'm sure the Langbord's argued that they didn't check every coin to see if it really was a 33, just the total matched up. I really believe that Mr Switt exchanged gold for gold at the cash window but I didn't hear the evidence like the jury did.
If the Langbord's had won, they still would have had to deal with the IRS.
I still question why they took all 10 coins to the Treasury.
IP: Logged
08:40 PM
blackrams Member
Posts: 33275 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
If you strike oil in your back yard in Australia put a rock on it as it isn't yours. You buy the land here but should you find oil on it it is the governments.
IP: Logged
05:49 AM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
Thanks too. i was hoping she would win the case. Just think, she could've sold the pieces out side the U.S.
It's a case that combines history and mystery--and very valuable gold coins. The stakes were certainly high: One of these rare $20 pieces sold for a record $7.59 million in 2002.
Here's the story. A jury decided that a Philadelphia woman, Joan Langbord, who found the coins in her father's bank deposit box, never should have owned them, and that the U.S. government was right to take them back.
The government argued that the never-circulated gold coins should never have been anywhere outside the U.S. Mint. Only a half-million of the coins were made. The rare "double eagle" coins, designed by sculptor August Saint-Gaudens, are fervently sought by collectors—and worth a mint. When the United States abolished the gold standard in 1933, most of the pieces were melted down.
Two were sent to the Smithsonian, and 20 disappeared—the very 20 that can be traced to Langbord's father, a Philadelphia jeweler named Israel Switt. In challenging Langbord's ownership rights, the government argued that the dollar coins were most likely stolen. Langbord, who is 81, argued that her father did business with the Mint, and the coins could have been acquired legally.
But the government case seemed to sway the jury against Switt: The jeweler had been investigated for illegally possessing gold coins in the 1930s and '40s, but Switt was never prosecuted because the statute of limitations had expired.
The Secret Service believed that Switt worked a shady deal with a cashier inside the U.S. Mint to acquire the coins, which are currently being held at Fort Knox.
One of these rare $20 pieces sold for a record $7.59 million in 2002.
The government argued that the never-circulated gold coins should never have been anywhere outside the U.S. Mint.
These two statements seem to contradict each other. How did one of the pieces sell without being confiscated by the government the way the other 20 were?
I'm not siding with the person whose father had a possible dubious past, but why didn't the government gone after the rest of the "collection?"
As for the melting down part of the story, that sounds like the real tragedy in this story.
These two statements seem to contradict each other. How did one of the pieces sell without being confiscated by the government the way the other 20 were?
I'm not siding with the person whose father had a possible dubious past, but why didn't the government gone after the rest of the "collection?"
As for the melting down part of the story, that sounds like the real tragedy in this story.
I just got home and am way too tired to give you the story of how it got sold, so I'll just post the link and let you read it.
That is one of the issues the government has with the ownership. The big one thought is since these were never released they are still illegal to own.
