This is more common than you think. Yes, you can go to court to get your money back. Yes, it will cost you money to get YOUR money back. Don't ask me how I know.
Tony
Humphrey, Disckson, and Cheatham? Hmmm? Sounds like a parody name?
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11:49 AM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
This is much like Imminate Domain. Thought of in black & white, implimented in grey.
Departments need money. Siezing drugs don't pay the bills. Seizing cash does.
That is only one step away from being in business with the bad guys. "I won't take your drugs, but I will take the profits after you sell them."
If they take the drugs, there ARE no profits. And the police departments NEED them profits. To stay in business to...............stop drugs..............and the flow of money.................wait................
Nevermind, that's just not good business.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 07-04-2011).]
My guess would be that you can go to court, and if you can prove that the money is yours legally they have to give it back to you.
Pretty much. Because we have freedom, and democracy, all you have to do is prove you are innocent, and you get it all back...Minus fees of course.
Now, I'm not sure how to say this. I am pretty sure of what the money was from, the drivers knew what the money was from, the Police knew where the money was from. BUT
None of us are a court of law, and people are legally innocent until proven guilty.
From what I understand from my limited education, and low intelligence, the Police could not legally take the money, there is no law saying that they can take the money, so their goal is to get the driver to say he doesn't know where it came from, knows nothing about it etc. Then the money is simply put in a lost and found for a few months, and when nobody claims it the department gets it with no fight.
If the driver had not told them that he didn't know about the money they Police would have made up a charge (resisting or something similar). The driver would have been arrested, and some other dirty member of the "law" would have found a way to get the money.
Brad
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11:55 AM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
I believe the same thing would happen if you boarded a plane with a suitcase full of cash. Or even if it was intercepted in the mail. It will be siezed untill you can prove it is legit.
It's THE GOVERNMENT does not like you moving large sums of cash without them making sure there is paperwork that shows they got their cut.
Do these cops have to claim this siezed cash and pay taxes of some kind on it? I'd bet dollars-to-doughnuts the government gets it's cut of this ill-gotten booty....
Which means the Government gets a cut of a drug trade they condem? Is their real motivation to stop the drug trade, or to make sure they get their cut?
And people tell me everything is black & white. This sure looks grey to me.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 07-04-2011).]
This is more common than you think. Yes, you can go to court to get your money back. Yes, it will cost you money to get YOUR money back. Don't ask me how I know.
Tony
Humphrey, Disckson, and Cheatham? Hmmm? Sounds like a parody name?
Any time you deal with the judicial system it costs you money. I really think that it is a simple way of keeping people in their "place". The rich can afford the fees, the poor cannot, more fees get added for not paying the fees, and they eventually end up with a long record.
Every time I was arrested and posted bail I lost a portion of the money, even though the charges were dropped (never existed in two cases). The main reason I stayed in jail the last time to wait for court was because I couldn't afford to lose the money that would go to "fees" that go around. I think my refusal to post bail helped expedite getting the paperwork straightened out as well. But that's another story.
Maybe. At the very least you must go to court to prove your innocence. In most cases, the government never files any charges against a person - but they will file charges against the money. Yes, they sue the money, and since the money can't prove it's innocent, they keep it.
Government makes the assumption if you have a large sum of cash, it must be from drugs, so it's illegal money and they can seize it. Nevermind that transporting money, even illegal drug money, isn't illegal. The forfeiture laws have put a monetary incentive on seizing property. Many departments - like the ones in the video - depend on that money to operate, so the cops know if they don't bring in enough money, their job is at risk. At that point it's no longer about the law. They should all be brought up on charges under the RICO Act just like any organized crime group.
People let them get away with it by using such excuses as "if you've done nothing wrong, you don't have anything to worry about" or "as long as it gets the drugs off the street."
quote
Originally posted by User00013170:
That would be backwards, they would have to prove its not yours..
Not where money is concerned. You not only have to prove it's yours, you also have to prove you have it by legal means.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 07-04-2011).]
If a law enforcement officer behaves this way at a traffic stop; then I firmly believe these same officers are capable of pocketing some of these ill gotten gains.
Corruption begets corruption.
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06:01 PM
FriendGregory Member
Posts: 4833 From: Palo Alto, CA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
I make sure I am completely clear. I would not a "Yeah" to be considered as "go ahead". A search can include cutting up your interior or taking the car for a proper search. I go with a answer like, "Sir, you do not, I repeat, you do not have permission to search my vehicle". Usually the questions begin promptly after. No access, no confiscated property. I have had several threaten to seize and tow my car but, none have. I just state that it would be inconvenient for both of us.
I make sure I am completely clear. I would not a "Yeah" to be considered as "go ahead". A search can include cutting up your interior or taking the car for a proper search. I go with a answer like, "Sir, you do not, I repeat, you do not have permission to search my vehicle". Usually the questions begin promptly after. No access, no confiscated property. I have had several threaten to seize and tow my car but, none have. I just state that it would be inconvenient for both of us.
Last time that happened to me, he said he was going to radio for a drug dog to search it after I told him he had no warrant nor did he have permission to search... I know the law, and I told him I would make damn sure he lost his badge if he searched my car. I said, "All it will do is waste both our time and annoy the dog."
Not where money is concerned. You not only have to prove it's yours, you also have to prove you have it by legal means.
I think the ACLU needs to get involved if that is the case. Since when as a private citizen not under court order for investigation do i have to explain myself to the government?
[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 07-04-2011).]
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09:06 PM
PFF
System Bot
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9891 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
I am not surprised. Law enforcement will and do bend laws to unintended purposes all the time. Here in California they use smog laws to seize cars from "street racers".
TN law is as corrupt as it gets. When we were down there the sheriff who ran the jail was arrested for using jail prisoners to harvest his pot crop.
As well as the local judge who was busted for letting his girlfriend off for possession of cocaine. And then he was also doing it they later found out.
Both were in the same town, Shelbyville.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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09:41 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
I think the ACLU needs to get involved if that is the case. Since when as a private citizen not under court order for investigation do i have to explain myself to the government?
Since the War on Drugs.
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09:54 PM
carnut122 Member
Posts: 9122 From: Waleska, GA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
I was going to post that part of the reason they're after the cash is there's no state income tax in TN. But, since you're an expert, do you think the lack of funding due to no state income tax has anything to do with it?
I was going to post that part of the reason they're after the cash is there's no state income tax in TN. But, since you're an expert, do you think the lack of funding due to no state income tax has anything to do with it?
While I disagree with some of the police tactics, let's bring a dose of reality into this:
A) The news report wasn't reporting of Joe Citizen getting $2,000 - $5,000 confiscated. Yes, I've carried $2,000+ on me while traveling to or from a hobby convention where I buy and sell items. But, I can show a ledger or left over items that I was selling.
B) How many legit Joe Truck Drivers actually carry on their rigs more more than maybe $2,000 in cash???
C) Even if you're buying a $10,000 - $20,000 vehicle, how many legit people are carrying/paying in cash that sum of money? It's a cashier check, not cash
C'mon people, you'll say, "It's my right to carry $20,000 -$50,000 in cash and not worry about law enforcement confiscating it." But, how many of you would actually carry that sum of money?
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10:40 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by aceman: While I disagree with some of the police tactics, let's bring a dose of reality into this:
A) The news report wasn't reporting of Joe Citizen getting $2,000 - $5,000 confiscated. Yes, I've carried $2,000+ on me while traveling to or from a hobby convention where I buy and sell items. But, I can show a ledger or left over items that I was selling.
B) How many legit Joe Truck Drivers actually carry on their rigs more more than maybe $2,000 in cash???
C) Even if you're buying a $10,000 - $20,000 vehicle, how many legit people are carrying/paying in cash that sum of money? It's a cashier check, not cash
C'mon people, you'll say, "It's my right to carry $20,000 -$50,000 in cash and not worry about law enforcement confiscating it." But, how many of you would actually carry that sum of money?
so, only trouble makers carry large sums of cash? I do see, and partly agree - but - I dont see this as OK in any way.
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10:44 AM
Rainman Member
Posts: 3877 From: Cincinnati, Ohio Registered: Jan 2003
While I disagree with some of the police tactics, let's bring a dose of reality into this:
A) The news report wasn't reporting of Joe Citizen getting $2,000 - $5,000 confiscated. Yes, I've carried $2,000+ on me while traveling to or from a hobby convention where I buy and sell items. But, I can show a ledger or left over items that I was selling.
B) How many legit Joe Truck Drivers actually carry on their rigs more more than maybe $2,000 in cash???
C) Even if you're buying a $10,000 - $20,000 vehicle, how many legit people are carrying/paying in cash that sum of money? It's a cashier check, not cash
C'mon people, you'll say, "It's my right to carry $20,000 -$50,000 in cash and not worry about law enforcement confiscating it." But, how many of you would actually carry that sum of money?
In my younger days (read: many fewer expenses and lots more dispoable income) it was nothing to have a few grand in my wallet for daily carry in case I stumbled on something I wanted, or simply so I could burn it down and replenish my wallet when it got low. I don't have that problem anymore and with the newer laws, wouldn't want to anyway.
I remember stumbling on a used car for sale and I paid cash for it on the spot without even having to go to the bank.
[This message has been edited by Rainman (edited 07-05-2011).]
C) Even if you're buying a $10,000 - $20,000 vehicle, how many legit people are carrying/paying in cash that sum of money? It's a cashier check, not cash
C'mon people, you'll say, "It's my right to carry $20,000 -$50,000 in cash and not worry about law enforcement confiscating it." But, how many of you would actually carry that sum of money?
If you worked at a bank you might be surprised how many people take out over $10,000 in cash at a time...
While I disagree with some of the police tactics, let's bring a dose of reality into this:
A) The news report wasn't reporting of Joe Citizen getting $2,000 - $5,000 confiscated. Yes, I've carried $2,000+ on me while traveling to or from a hobby convention where I buy and sell items. But, I can show a ledger or left over items that I was selling.
B) How many legit Joe Truck Drivers actually carry on their rigs more more than maybe $2,000 in cash???
C) Even if you're buying a $10,000 - $20,000 vehicle, how many legit people are carrying/paying in cash that sum of money? It's a cashier check, not cash
C'mon people, you'll say, "It's my right to carry $20,000 -$50,000 in cash and not worry about law enforcement confiscating it." But, how many of you would actually carry that sum of money?
The last I checked, cash was legal tender, and there is no limit to how much one can carry. Whether or not it's drug money or proceeds from any other illegal activity should be irrelevant. Saying this is OK under any circumstances is surrendering *another* of our basic freedoms. This seems an awful lot like piracy to me, they can try to paint it any way they want, but it's theft, pure and simple. And frankly, that they are supposed to be a *law enforcement* agency makes it all that much worse.
Great, cops have now become common thieves, and some of you are saying it's OK. No wonder our country is so f***ed.
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11:31 AM
aceman Member
Posts: 4899 From: Brooklyn Center, MN Registered: Feb 2003
If you worked at a bank you might be surprised how many people take out over $10,000 in cash at a time...
Sure. I've done $5,000 or so to pay for a car or for the hobby conventions that I travel to. I also keep the bank receipt with that money.
C'mon, they're pulling $10,000 - $20,000+ out of trucks that are wrapped up. How many legit people are going to have that cash wrapped up like that?
No, I don't like the"profiling" of out of state plates. I'm sure there are different laws for searching a commercial truck. But, if I'm completely legit and if they asked me to search my personal car, I\m going to say no. I've never had a problem when I've said no to a cop when asked if they can search my car.
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11:38 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
While I disagree with some of the police tactics, let's bring a dose of reality into this:
A) The news report wasn't reporting of Joe Citizen getting $2,000 - $5,000 confiscated. Yes, I've carried $2,000+ on me while traveling to or from a hobby convention where I buy and sell items. But, I can show a ledger or left over items that I was selling.
B) How many legit Joe Truck Drivers actually carry on their rigs more more than maybe $2,000 in cash???
C) Even if you're buying a $10,000 - $20,000 vehicle, how many legit people are carrying/paying in cash that sum of money? It's a cashier check, not cash
C'mon people, you'll say, "It's my right to carry $20,000 -$50,000 in cash and not worry about law enforcement confiscating it." But, how many of you would actually carry that sum of money?
I understand your point and even if I think the truck drivers may actually be transporting drug money, I can't agree with the police seizing money with no evidence of wrongdoing, no charges filed, nothing. This incident was truckers carrying large amounts of cash, but the law that allows that to happen can also allow them to seize anything you're carrying.
We've had incidents similar to this with "Joe Average" getting detained by TSA for carrying $4000 or so in cash. Even the DA in the videos says that even if it is drug money - transporting illegal drug money isn't illegal.
Cops need to enforce the law. If they're not charging someone with a crime, they don't need to be seizing any of their property. Period.
quote
Originally posted by aceman: C'mon, they're pulling $10,000 - $20,000+ out of trucks that are wrapped up. How many legit people are going to have that cash wrapped up like that?
That's your burden of proof? You think it's ok that you feel it necessary when you carry as little as $5000 in cash to keep the bank receipt to prove your innocence if questioned? That's like driving a new Corvette and having it impounded for drag racing because how many people own one who don't race it at least once?
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 07-05-2011).]
