I remember being is school and each time I took a history class the first thing I would do was flip to the back of the book. And in the back of the book there was modern interesting stuff. Like the last few chapters would be on the Gulf War. And I thought this will be awesome I cant wait to learn about that. And the a few chapters back there would be Vietnam War, once again I would think that will be interesting, and then WWII the war I really wanted to learn about.

But every class was the same thing, we would work are way through the first half the book and the class would end. We would be lucky if we made it to WWI. In all my years in school and college, I was never taught one thing about WWII!! Both my grandfathers were in that war and as far as my education went, that war never happened. I always felt like they should teach history from the back of the book to the front. Kids would be way more interested in the modern events they could relate to.

Anyone else go through school and college, never learning one thing about WWII?

------------------

In a nut shell. (Forgive me if im off)
German was all like, "look at them punk's in Czechoslovakia. Lets invade them."
Britain & France were all like "Hells no, you need to squash this drama."
So a mexican standoff happened and then the germans were all like "Da hell with Poland and invaded them while the Russians came in from the other side."
Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary, & Romania were all like "aw snap, **** just got real" and started brown noseing the Germans and joined them.
Then the Germans are like "lets troll the Jews, retards and gays." (this is that whole extermination thing)
Russia and the US were all like "Aw hells no, this is your beef."
Danish, Belgian, Dutch, Norwegian, French & Serbian volunteers join the Axis armies & SS.
Russia gets sucker punched by Axis powers and were all like "hell no dawg, we in this **** now."
Japan is all like "yo dawg, mind if we get down on this?" And they bomb pearl harbor.
The US goes "WTF dawg. Out of no where? Really?!?!?! You gonna regret that sucker punch MOFO." Now everyone is kung fu fighting
The US goes "Get to work everyone." A bunch of stuff happened on the home front and stuff got done.
Then everyone is all like "ATTACK!!!!!!" and D day happened. D day had 5 landings: 2 British, 2 American, 1 Canadian. (everybody forgets the Canadians.)
Hitler is found with one ball in a ditch after being lit on fire because he is a pansy and an hero'ed.
The us is all like "lets go all secrete and stuff and have the Manhattan Project and invent a big ass bomb."
They drop 2 of these magical, metal balls of joy on Japan.
Japan was all like "yo dawg, thats enough!"
Thats in a very small nut shell. I dont feel like more details.

Thanks Antuzzi. I am smart now.

LoL. Actually this whole thread is based off your FB post about WWII. It got me thinking and pissed off.

No.

But, then again, I had teachers, who fought IN that war. The war hadn't been over 20 yrs when I entered highschool.

When I was quite young, (early teens) it was not at all unusual for friends and customers of my Father, to sit around with him, and talk about the Pacific theatre of WW2, as well as the depression. My father's favorite brother-in-law (my uncle) died at Leyte Gulf in a Kamakazi attack.
Same for Korea. My Father's best friend and a guy who I worked for summers was at Chosin.


As far as learning about Vietnam, well...........

The strange thing is that we tend to teach history through the events of wars, nations and political events.

I was listening to a program on the radio where a history professor (he has several books on this that I want to get), but he taught history through the lens of clothing garments and living spaces. For instance, the history of how people releaved themselves through time, i.e., chamber pot, out-house and bath rooms and etc.

He said you can explain the entire history of human civilization by just concentrating on what people had and used in their homes.

It was a very cool way of looking at history.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: No. But, then again, I had teachers, who fought IN that war. The war hadn't been over 20 yrs when I entered highschool. When I was quite young, (early teens) it was not at all unusual for friends and customers of my Father, to sit around with him, and talk about the Pacific theatre of WW2, as well as the depression. My father's favorite brother-in-law (my uncle) died at Leyte Gulf in a Kamakazi attack. Same for Korea. My Father's best friend and a guy who I worked for summers was at Chosin. As far as learning about Vietnam, well...........

I bet you could teach us a lot of stuff about Vietnam that wasn't written in any books.

See I just personally feel that kids would benefit from a solid understanding of current history, (past 50 years or so). I think that is way more important then the history of 150 years ago. I still think both should be taught, but equally.

quote Originally posted by 87antuzzi: In a nut shell. (Forgive me if im off) German was all like, "look at them punk's in Czechoslovakia. Lets invade them." Britain & France were all like "Hells no, you need to squash this drama." So a mexican standoff happened and then the germans were all like "Da hell with Poland and invaded them while the Russians came in from the other side." Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary, & Romania were all like "aw snap, **** just got real" and started brown noseing the Germans and joined them. Then the Germans are like "lets troll the Jews, retards and gays." (this is that whole extermination thing) Russia and the US were all like "Aw hells no, this is your beef." Danish, Belgian, Dutch, Norwegian, French & Serbian volunteers join the Axis armies & SS. Russia gets sucker punched by Axis powers and were all like "hell no dawg, we in this **** now." Japan is all like "yo dawg, mind if we get down on this?" And they bomb pearl harbor. The US goes "WTF dawg. Out of no where? Really?!?!?! You gonna regret that sucker punch MOFO." Now everyone is kung fu fighting The US goes "Get to work everyone." A bunch of stuff happened on the home front and stuff got done. Then everyone is all like "ATTACK!!!!!!" and D day happened. D day had 5 landings: 2 British, 2 American, 1 Canadian. (everybody forgets the Canadians.) Hitler is found with one ball in a ditch after being lit on fire because he is a pansy and an hero'ed. The us is all like "lets go all secrete and stuff and have the Manhattan Project and invent a big ass bomb." They drop 2 of these magical, metal balls of joy on Japan. Japan was all like "yo dawg, thats enough!" Thats in a very small nut shell. I dont feel like more details.

Just--wow.

That's Not "exactly" like i heard it.
Talk about re-writing history---
Did you ever do any condensed work for Matchbook version of Reader's Digest?

quote A bunch of stuff happened on the home front and stuff got done.

I guess that's the part where my mother is putting fuses in 100 lb bombs at the old San Jacinto Arsenal Depot??

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I guess that's the part where my mother is putting fuses in 100 lb bombs at the old San Jacinto Arsenal Depot??

See family involvement! Husbands at war, wives building bombs, welding planes, sewing parachutes, etc. Its was a country untied in a war effort. Not a bunch of people acting like its not happening and being upset that they don't have the latest greatest toy to distract them.

[This message has been edited by DeLorean00 (edited 06-26-2011).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I guess that's the part where my mother is putting fuses in 100 lb bombs at the old San Jacinto Arsenal Depot??

Nutshell.....Why I wrote it like that. I honestly dont know. I could have simply copied and pasted but I figured a "re-fresher" would be good for the ol noodle. And yes, the Homefront played a MAJOR key role in the war, im was not trying to downplay it. I was going to post some of my old schoolwork about the war but decided that was too much work. If Delorean00 wants to know about the war he can do hundreds of hours of reading via the internet and get all the "details."
That was just a very dumb'ed down version and very generalized. It sucks he was robbed of a good history class but hey, he can make up for it

Getting back to the importance of ww2 on history..

Few people today, really understand the profound and long lived effects it had on the world, especially this nation. Many of the things that so many people take for granted today, are a direct result of that war. Anytime you have a conflict on a nearly 100% global scale, there is the potential for 1 of 2 things to happen.
1. The world beats itself and it's inhabitants so far into the ground, that society, science, industry and medicine actually digress backwards.

or

2. Science and industry advance so far, so fast, as a result of the huge need to outperform one's enemies, that the timeline for evolution in rergards to medicine, transportation, science, chemistry, discovery, energy, far outdistances any other equal earlier time period.

And #2 is what happend to us as a direct result of ww2. Henry Ford of course, is credited with "inventing" mass production, but ww2 kicked into warpspeed. We were kicking out tanks and aircraft faster than Ford ever imagined a Model a or T could be built. Liberty ships were coming off the ways in #s I doubt we could even match today. Radar and sonar were advanced and greatly improved, and mapping--both above and below the oceans really became a science back in those days. Entire civilizations were discovered in WW2, as well as living peoples no one even knew existed. Efficient logistics became routine in that war. WW2 enabled us to put a man on the moon decades before we would have had that war not taken place. Prior to WW2, if you wanted to go to a foriegn shore, you took a ship unless you were very wealthy and could fly the clipper. After ww2, jet airliners soon appeared and not long after, only the very wealthy travelled by steamship. It spawned the jet age, the nuclear age, the plastic age, and in spite of all the horror it carried with it, that war brought about a social upheaveal like the world has never seen. The tiny seeds of social justice and equality for minorities were planted in ww2. It took a long time for them to germinate and mature, but without that war, discrimination and bigotry would be so much worse and so much more widespread than what we saw with the war.

As bad as it was for so many peoples, the importance on a positive note, of ww2, simply cannot be overstated. Hopefully, Marvin M will step in here and expound a bit on this, as he's a little older than I am and he has a scientific and aviation background. This, is the real history of WW2--where it took us, and that destination is still being plotted and planned on the footnotes of what so few today even glimpse back on.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Getting back to the importance of ww2 on history.. Few people today, really understand the profound and long lived effects it had on the world, especially this nation. Many of the things that so many people take for granted today, are a direct result of that war. Anytime you have a conflict on a nearly 100% global scale, there is the potential for 1 of 2 things to happen. 1. The world beats itself and it's inhabitants so far into the ground, that society, science, industry and medicine actually digress backwards. or 2. Science and industry advance so far, so fast, as a result of the huge need to outperform one's enemies, that the timeline for evolution in rergards to medicine, transportation, science, chemistry, discovery, energy, far outdistances any other equal earlier time period. And #2 is what happend to us as a direct result of ww2. Henry Ford of course, is credited with "inventing" mass production, but ww2 kicked into warpspeed. We were kicking out tanks and aircraft faster than Ford ever imagined a Model a or T could be built. Liberty ships were coming off the ways in #s I doubt we could even match today. Radar and sonar were advanced and greatly improved, and mapping--both above and below the oceans really became a science back in those days. Entire civilizations were discovered in WW2, as well as living peoples no one even knew existed. Efficient logistics became routine in that war. WW2 enabled us to put a man on the moon decades before we would have had that war not taken place. Prior to WW2, if you wanted to go to a foriegn shore, you took a ship unless you were very wealthy and could fly the clipper. After ww2, jet airliners soon appeared and not long after, only the very wealthy travelled by steamship. It spawned the jet age, the nuclear age, the plastic age, and in spite of all the horror it carried with it, that war brought about a social upheaveal like the world has never seen. The tiny seeds of social justice and equality for minorities were planted in ww2. It took a long time for them to germinate and mature, but without that war, discrimination and bigotry would be so much worse and so much more widespread than what we saw with the war. As bad as it was for so many peoples, the importance on a positive note, of ww2, simply cannot be overstated. Hopefully, Marvin M will step in here and expound a bit on this, as he's a little older than I am and he has a scientific and aviation background. This, is the real history of WW2--where it took us, and that destination is still being plotted and planned on the footnotes of what so few today even glimpse back on.

Wow. Maryjane. I never thought of it quite like that. It makes perfect sense. As for being such and important part of our history, it saddens me they didn't take the time to teach us much about it. And I know I am not the only person who missed out on this is school. Many of my friends complained about the same thing.

Not obsolete even today, google (paste)the following line exactly as it appears below:

"Big inch and Little Big inch"


Much of the domestic industrial, chemical, construction, machining, and building trades that propelled us thru the 50s and 60s were left over plants and businesses from ww2. Considering, that the USSR and the Cold War were also a direct result of WW2, our current US Interstate Highway system is also a product indirectly attributed to that war, and in fact, it's actual name was The Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways, named after Ike of course as he helped get the project off and running with an eye towards moving men and equipment quickly from one side of the country to another--north/south/east or west.

Hmm Actually history was always one of my favorites subjects. I frequently would read ahead of our lessons and always, always finished the text books.

Math was my least favorite (hated) subject.

------------------
Ron

As a history major, and a person that works with historical records as a career, I can tell you that the majority of everything that is taught in grade school and even lower level college courses is utter garbage.

One of the major things that utterly appalls me is how much we utterly LIE about our historical record. Take a VERY basic example. Here is how the "founding" of America plays out in most every modern textbook created.

- Christopher Columbus is asked to set sail to find a "better" trading route with Asia.
- Sails across Atlantic
- Meets natives he calls "Indians"
- Happily does stuff and returns to Spain with fandom and fanfare.

What REALLY happened though is that.

- Christopher Columbus, out of potential greed, sees a chance to improve his personal image. He throws his ideas around, only to finally be accepted by the Spanish crown, as they see his voyage as a potential upperhand on the important Asian trade market.
- Sails across the Atlantic, nevermind that the Atlantic voyage that time he took was very dangerous. You had to rely on sea and wind currents, and very little knew how to work them. It was probably any sort of luck he actually made as many trips as he did.
- Lands in Caribbean. Does not happily do stuff. Natives are essentially robbed of their lifestyle. Even if any "trading" went on, it was not beneficial to the natives.
- Difficulties in establishing permanent European settlements.
- Columbus ultimately dies embittered, all the while thinking he landed in Asia

Other historical figures are like this too. School books never talk about Alexander the Great's love of little boys, whom he took at least one in every city he conquered or named for himself (we do talk about all those cities though...). Even our own presidents are victims of this sorts of iconic imagery (not Alexander's, just altering our perception of how important historical figures lived).

Thus, historical events are not excluded from this. World War II is itself also a victim. It was mentioned above, but unfortunately war seems to be one of the key things to talk about in textbooks in regards to what happened in WWII. Think about it. I bet everyone can name the following events:

- Germany invades Poland.
- Germany pushes inwards towards France.
- Tries to invade Russia. Fails.
- U.S. is bombed at Pearl Harbor.
- U.S. begins Normandy invasion.
- U.S. pushes inwards with Britain. Germany surrenders.
- U.S. Pacific campaign pushes Japanese back.
- U.S. drops atomic weapons on Japanese mainland.

Everything above is EXACTLY how WWII is played out in history textbooks. I mentioned the North Africa campaigns in a history lesson once when I was student-teaching for college, and the 12TH GRADERS had no clue what I was talking about.

We also don't put enough emphasis on how serious the war economy actually was. The advent of WWII and it's occurrence helped EVERYONE. Textbooks seem to not detail very well that the reason it was called The Great Depression is because it was THE great depression - the whole world was in near shambles. Hitler actually did an extraordinary job using a forced "war economy" on the German people to propel the country forward. However with building of weapons meant they had to ultimately be used, hence why Hitler's quest for dominance was rather well played out. Hitler wanted to expand Germany, Germany needed to expand and rebuild it's economy. It worked hand-in-hand. Everyone else of course, by the time they realized what Hitler had done, it was too late to really do anything serious and thus scrambled.

Honestly if not for some very key occurrences, such as if Hitler would have held off on invading Russia or if the whole Pacific U.S. fleet had actually been at Pearl Harbor, WWII may have dramatically played out quite differently.

[This message has been edited by Fiero84Freak (edited 06-26-2011).]

I learned about WWII.. but only about the Jews.
I'm very sympathetic towards them. It was horrible.
But we never covered fighting or anything... just what the Nazis did to the Jews.
And we did it every year.
Other than that, it was the same'ol same'ol. We learned about America and her influence on the world.
But I would have much rather preferred a larger spectrum of history.
We covered the same crap every freaking year.
Ugh.

SO yes, it sucked, but for the completely opposite reasons.

Math was my favorite subject. It rocked.

quote Originally posted by Fiero84Freak: As a history major, and a person that works with historical records as a career, I can tell you that the majority of everything that is taught in grade school and even lower level college courses is utter garbage. One of the major things that utterly appalls me is how much we utterly LIE about our historical record. Take a VERY basic example. Here is how the "founding" of America plays out in most every modern textbook created. - Christopher Columbus is asked to set sail to find a "better" trading route with Asia. - Sails across Atlantic - Meets natives he calls "Indians" - Happily does stuff and returns to Spain with fandom and fanfare. What REALLY happened though is that. - Christopher Columbus, out of potential greed, sees a chance to improve his personal image. He throws his ideas around, only to finally be accepted by the Spanish crown, as they see his voyage as a potential upperhand on the important Asian trade market. - Sails across the Atlantic, nevermind that the Atlantic voyage that time he took was very dangerous. You had to rely on sea and wind currents, and very little knew how to work them. It was probably any sort of luck he actually made as many trips as he did. - Lands in Caribbean. Does not happily do stuff. Natives are essentially robbed of their lifestyle. Even if any "trading" went on, it was not beneficial to the natives. - Difficulties in establishing permanent European settlements. - Columbus ultimately dies embittered, all the while thinking he landed in Asia Other historical figures are like this too. School books never talk about Alexander the Great's love of little boys, whom he took at least one in every city he conquered or named for himself (we do talk about all those cities though...). Even our own presidents are victims of this sorts of iconic imagery (not Alexander's, just altering our perception of how important historical figures lived). Thus, historical events are not excluded from this. World War II is itself also a victim. It was mentioned above, but unfortunately war seems to be one of the key things to talk about in textbooks in regards to what happened in WWII. Think about it. I bet everyone can name the following events: - Germany invades Poland. - Germany pushes inwards towards France. - Tries to invade Russia. Fails. - U.S. is bombed at Pearl Harbor. - U.S. begins Normandy invasion. - U.S. pushes inwards with Britain. Germany surrenders. - U.S. Pacific campaign pushes Japanese back. - U.S. drops atomic weapons on Japanese mainland. Everything above is EXACTLY how WWII is played out in history textbooks. I mentioned the North Africa campaigns in a history lesson once when I was student-teaching for college, and the 12TH GRADERS had no clue what I was talking about. We also don't put enough emphasis on how serious the war economy actually was. The advent of WWII and it's occurrence helped EVERYONE. Textbooks seem to not detail very well that the reason it was called The Great Depression is because it was THE great depression - the whole world was in near shambles. Hitler actually did an extraordinary job using a forced "war economy" on the German people to propel the country forward. However with building of weapons meant they had to ultimately be used, hence why Hitler's quest for dominance was rather well played out. Hitler wanted to expand Germany, Germany needed to expand and rebuild it's economy. It worked hand-in-hand. Everyone else of course, by the time they realized what Hitler had done, it was too late to really do anything serious and thus scrambled. Honestly if not for some very key occurrences, such as if Hitler would have held off on invading Russia or if the whole Pacific U.S. fleet had actually been at Pearl Harbor, WWII may have dramatically played out quite differently.

Actually Columbus knew very well about trade winds. And most educated Europeans knew the earth was spherical at the time and he was one of them. He actually was trying to reach Japan, but when he landed in the Caribbean he did thought he reached South Asia based on similarities of the environment.

While the western educated folks of his time thought you could sail across the Atlantic to Asia, there was debate on how far it was and everybody had different calculations, including Columbus and most calculations were putting Asia too far for ships to hold enough food and fresh water.

Columbus, although had many run ins with the crown because of spats on how much can claim for himself and his heirs, he did die a very wealthy man. Towards the end of his life, he became more of a religious nut than anything else.

quote Originally posted by Fiero84Freak: - Germany invades Poland. - Germany pushes inwards towards France. - Tries to invade Russia. Fails. - U.S. is bombed at Pearl Harbor. - U.S. begins Normandy invasion. - U.S. pushes inwards with Britain. Germany surrenders. - U.S. Pacific campaign pushes Japanese back. - U.S. drops atomic weapons on Japanese mainland. Everything above is EXACTLY how WWII is played out in history textbooks. I mentioned the North Africa campaigns in a history lesson once when I was student-teaching for college, and the 12TH GRADERS had no clue what I was talking about.

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2129.html

In the First World War, Japan joined the Allied powers, but played only a minor role in fighting German colonial forces in East Asia. At the following Paris Peace Conference of 1919, Japan's proposal of amending a "racial equality clause" to the covenant of the League of Nations was rejected by the United States, Britain and Australia. Arrogance and racial discrimination towards the Japanese had plagued Japanese-Western relations since the forced opening of the country in the 1800s, and were again a major factor for the deterioration of relations in the decades preceeding World War 2. In 1924, for example, the US Congress passed the Exclusion Act that prohibited further immigration from Japan.

After WW1, Japan's economical situation worsened. The Great Kanto Earthquake of 1923 and the world wide depression of 1929 intensified the crisis.

During the 1930s, the military established almost complete control over the government. Many political enemies were assassinated, and communists persecuted. Indoctrination and censorship in education and media were further intensified. Navy and army officers soon occupied most of the important offices, including the one of the prime minister.

Already earlier, Japan followed the example of Western nations and forced China into unequal economical and political treaties. Furthermore, Japan's influence over Manchuria had been steadily growing since the end of the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-05. When the Chinese Nationalists began to seriously challenge Japan's position in Manchuria in 1931, the Kwantung Army (Japanese armed forces in Manchuria) occupied Manchuria. In the following year, "Manchukuo" was declared an independent state, controlled by the Kwantung Army through a puppet government. In the same year, the Japanese air force bombarded Shanghai in order to protect Japanese residents from anti Japanese movements.

In 1933, Japan withdrew from the League of Nations since she was heavily criticized for her actions in China.

In July 1937, the second Sino-Japanese War broke out. A small incident was soon made into a full scale war by the Kwantung army which acted rather independently from a more moderate government. The Japanese forces succeeded in occupying almost the whole coast of China and committed severe war atrocities on the Chinese population, especially during the fall of the capital Nanking. However, the Chinese government never surrendered completely, and the war continued on a lower scale until 1945.

In 1940, Japan occupied French Indochina (Vietnam) upon agreement with the French Vichy government, and joined the Axis powers Germany and Italy. These actions intensified Japan's conflict with the United States and Great Britain which reacted with an oil boycott. The resulting oil shortage and failures to solve the conflict diplomatically made Japan decide to capture the oil rich Dutch East Indies (Indonesia) and to start a war with the US and Great Britain.

In December 1941, Japan attacked the Allied powers at Pearl Harbour and several other points throughout the Pacific. Japan was able to expand her control over a large territory that expanded to the border of India in the West and New Guinea in the South within the following six months.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: I learned about WWII.. but only about the Jews. I'm very sympathetic towards them. It was horrible. But we never covered fighting or anything... just what the Nazis did to the Jews. And we did it every year. Other than that, it was the same'ol same'ol. We learned about America and her influence on the world. But I would have much rather preferred a larger spectrum of history. We covered the same crap every freaking year. Ugh. SO yes, it sucked, but for the completely opposite reasons. Math was my favorite subject. It rocked.

If you look at history text books through the decades, the focus on the genocide of Jews by the Germans always increased the numbers every time. I've seen them say 500,000 and even in the 1970's they were saying 1.5 to 2 million Jews. But now the number is somewhere around 6 to 7 million. But the Germans exterminated many more groups besides the Jews, like the Romani and Gays and some historians put the total number of people of the Holocaust around 15 million.

I try to make sure the 6th grade US history that I teach does not suck. The book I have mentions the Bataan Death March in one sentence, Doolittle's Raid got a few sentences, the bombing of Japan got a couple of paragraphs, the Holocaust had a page and the Cold War got a section. I could not stand it, so we did research projects instead of using the book, we did a book study on the Holocaust and I brought in relics from the cold war and we designed our own modern day bomb shelters, researched what supplies we needed to equip them and determined the cost involved in being prepared. A lot of ideas for what I taught came from this forum! The collective knowledge this place has is amazing.

Edit: Cooter.... Many a time I wished that you were teaching my 6th grade class. You are exactly the type of mentors that this nation needs.


I cannot get enough of history. I find myself watching, reading, and trying to learn about history quite often. I find it fascinating how folks used to live, eat, and play. All of my grandparents fled eastern Europe during WW1. Many of their siblings did not make it out. My Grandmother, and her sisters were raped by the Nazis. My Grandpa Kania was at D-Day. I can remember him telling stories, and seeing a man cry. I suppose this is some of the reason for my need for knowledge. I have heard that knowing is half the battle.

Different subjects affect us diferently. While I enjoyed history, I HATED English. I have never had an interest in who wrote what, unless it was in Popular Mechanics, or Car & Driver. And math, well I wound up in advanced algebra in 9th grade, and had the opportunity to be ahead of everyone in my class from the get go of high school. Math is the universal language, and when our history writes in alien contact, I will be able to speak with our new masters.

Tony

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 06-26-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Edit: Cooter.... Many a time I wished that you were teaching my 6th grade class. You are exactly the type of mentors that this nation needs.

Nahhhhhh. I am just trying to make up for all the past evil that I have done in my life.
On a side note, at the sixth grade graduation, when the class historian gave her speech, she closed with this:
"We have learned a lot since kindergarten, but perhaps the most important lesson we learned in elementary school is...When you see the flash, DUCK AND COVER!"
I guess they really were listening.

delorean- you should have taken a Western Civ II history class in College, you would have gotten a week long WWII unit, and probably enjoyed it as much as you like old things. ANyhow, just because your school hstory teachers stunk or whatever, that should not stop you from reading history books now even if you are not is school. I basically ONLY read history books nowadays.. fiction and fluff have no hold with me.

I learned a surprising fact years ago that was NEVER conveyed in high school history We were upset with the Japanese for expansion in Asia, before we were attacked and drawn into the war. Still, they needed gasoline for their war effort, and we would not trade with them unless they gave up Manchuria. (A BIG piece of land north of China..) They would not.

So, to prevent us from interfering with gas and oil fields in southeast asia places like indonesia and malaysia, Pearl Harbor (the only "nearby" American base..) was attacked and disabled.

I don't think many people get the reason Pearl Harbor happened. It was not random, or an attack based on evil or anything like that. It was a calculated move, nothing personal, to keep us out of asian affairs long enough for Japan to put gas in their tanks.

Although the actual Pearl Harbor attacks were appalling and deadly, there was a few real reasons behind it, a major one was Gasoline. Too bad the emperor did not have any "no war for gas" protestors.

Here's some Naval history leading up to Pearl and our involvement:
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq66-1.htm

quote The road to war between Japan and the United States began in the 1930s when differences over China drove the two nations apart. In 1931 Japan conquered Manchuria, which until then had been part of China. In 1937 Japan began a long and ultimately unsuccessful campaign to conquer the rest of China. In 1940, the Japanese government allied their country with Nazi Germany in the Axis Alliance, and, in the following year, occupied all of Indochina. The United States, which had important political and economic interests in East Asia, was alarmed by these Japanese moves. The U.S. increased military and financial aid to China, embarked on a program of strengthening its military power in the Pacific, and cut off the shipment of oil and other raw materials to Japan. Because Japan was poor in natural resources, its government viewed these steps, especially the embargo on oil as a threat to the nation's survival. Japan's leaders responded by resolving to seize the resource-rich territories of Southeast Asia, even though that move would certainly result in war with the United States. The problem with the plan was the danger posed by the U.S. Pacific Fleet based at Pearl Harbor. Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, commander of the Japanese fleet, devised a plan to immobilize the U.S. fleet at the outset of the war with a surprise attack. The key elements in Yamamoto's plans were meticulous preparation, the achievement of surprise, and the use of aircraft carriers and naval aviation on an unprecedented scale. In the spring of 1941, Japanese carrier pilots began training in the special tactics called for by the Pearl Harbor attack plan. In October 1941 the naval general staff gave final approval to Yamamoto's plan, which called for the formation of an attack force commanded by Vice Admiral Chuichi Nagumo. It centered around six heavy aircraft carriers accompanied by 24 supporting vessels. A separate group of submarines was to sink any American warships which escaped the Japanese carrier force. Nagumo's fleet assembled in the remote anchorage of Tankan Bay in the Kurile Islands and departed in strictest secrecy for Hawaii on 26 November 1941. The ships' route crossed the North Pacific and avoided normal shipping lanes. At dawn 7 December 1941, the Japanese task force had approached undetected to a point slightly more than 200 miles north of Oahu. At this time the U.S. carriers were not at Pearl Harbor. On 28 November, Admiral Kimmel sent USS Enterprise under Rear Admiral Willliam Halsey to deliver Marine Corps fighter planes to Wake Island. On 4 December Enterprise delivered the aircraft and on December 7 the task force was on its way back to Pearl Harbor. On 5 December, Admiral Kimmel sent the USS Lexington with a task force under Rear Admiral Newton to deliver 25 scout bombers to Midway Island. The last Pacific carrier, USS Saratoga, had left Pearl Harbor for upkeep and repairs on the West Coast. At 6:00 a.m. on 7 December, the six Japanese carriers launched a first wave of 181 planes composed of torpedo bombers, dive bombers, horizontal bombers and fighters. Even as they winged south, some elements of U.S. forces on Oahu realized there was something different about this Sunday morning. In the hours before dawn, U.S. Navy vessels spotted an unidentified submarine periscope near the entrance to Pearl Harbor. It was attacked and reported sunk by the destroyer USS Ward (DD-139) and a patrol plane. At 7:00 a.m., an alert operator of an Army radar station at Opana spotted the approaching first wave of the attack force. The officers to whom those reports were relayed did not consider them significant enough to take action. The report of the submarine sinking was handled routinely, and the radar sighting was passed off as an approaching group of American planes due to arrive that morning. The Japanese aircrews achieved complete surprise when they hit American ships and military installations on Oahu shortly before 8:00 a.m. They attacked military airfields at the same time they hit the fleet anchored in Pearl Harbor. The Navy air bases at Ford Island and Kaneohe Bay, the Marine airfield at Ewa and the Army Air Corps fields at Bellows, Wheeler and Hickam were all bombed and strafed as other elements of the attacking force began their assaults on the ships moored in Pearl Harbor. The purpose of the simultaneous attacks was to destroy the American planes before they could rise to intercept the Japanese. Of the more than 90 ships at anchor in Pearl Harbor, the primary targets were the eight battleships anchored there. seven were moored on Battleship Row along the southeast shore of Ford Island while the USS Pennsylvania (BB-38) lay in drydock across the channel. Within the first minutes of the attack all the battleships adjacent to Ford Island had taken bomb and or torpedo hits. The USS West Virginia (BB-48) sank quickly. The USS Oklahoma (BB-37) turned turtle and sank. At about 8:10 a.m., the USS Arizona (BB-39) was mortally wounded by an armorpiercing bomb which ignited the ship's forward ammunition magazine. The resulting explosion and fire killed 1,177 crewmen, the greatest loss of life on any ship that day and about half the total number of Americans killed. The USS California (BB-44), USS Maryland (BB-46), USS Tennessee (BB-43) and USS Nevada (BB-36) also suffered varying degrees of damage in the first half hour of the raid. There was a short lull in the fury of the attack at about 8:30 a.m. At that time the USS Nevada (BB-36), despite her wounds, managed to get underway and move down the channel toward the open sea. Before she could clear the harbor, a second wave of 170 Japanese planes, launched 30 minutes after the first, appeared over the harbor. They concentrated their attacks on the moving battleship, hoping to sink her in the channel and block the narrow entrance to Pearl Harbor. On orders from the harbor control tower, the USS Nevada (BB-36) beached herself at Hospital Point and the channel remained clear. When the attack ended shortly before 10:00 a.m., less than two hours after it began, the American forces has paid a fearful price. Twenty-one ships of the U.S. Pacific Fleet were sunk or damaged: the battleships USS Arizona (BB-39), USS California (BB-44), USS Maryland (BB-46), USS Nevada (BB-36), USS Oklahoma (BB-37), USS Pennsylvania (BB-38), USS Tennessee (BB-43) and USS West Virginia (BB-48); cruisers USS Helena (CL-50), USS Honolulu (CL-48) and USS Raleigh (CL-7); the destroyers USS Cassin (DD-372), USS Downes (DD-375), USS Helm (DD-388) and USS Shaw (DD-373); seaplane tender USS Curtiss (AV-4); target ship (ex-battleship) USS Utah (AG-16); repair ship USS Vestal (AR-4); minelayer USS Oglala (CM-4); tug USS Sotoyomo (YT-9); and Floating Drydock Number 2. Aircraft losses were 188 destroyed and 159 damaged, the majority hit before the had a chance to take off. American dead numbered 2,403. That figure included 68 civilians, most of them killed by improperly fused anti-aircraft shells landing in Honolulu. There were 1,178 military and civilian wounded. Japanese losses were comparatively light. Twenty-nine planes, less than 10 percent of the attacking force, failed to return to their carriers. The Japanese success was overwhelming, but it was not complete. They failed to damage any American aircraft carriers, which by a stroke of luck, had been absent from the harbor. They neglected to damage the shoreside facilities at the Pearl Harbor Naval Base, which played an important role in the Allied victory in World War II. American technological skill raised and repaired all but three of the ships sunk or damaged at Pearl Harbor (the USS Arizona (BB-39) considered too badly damaged to be salvaged, the USS Oklahoma (BB-37) raised and considered too old to be worth repairing, and the obsolete USS Utah (AG-16) considered not worth the effort). Most importantly, the shock and anger caused by the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor united a divided nation and was translated into a wholehearted commitment to victory in World War II.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 06-26-2011).]

The way its taught in school now is a total waste of time. You can learn much more watching the History Channel. I actually know girls who graduated in the Honor Society that dont know what Pearl Harbor is. One thought it was a surfing beach.

quote Originally posted by Fiero84Freak: What REALLY happened though is that. - Christopher Columbus, out of potential greed,

I have to question when someone's history begins with "What REALLY happened though is that" which after you expect an indisputable fact, not an opinion.
Are their actual documents that show his greed or only someones perception.
Could we convict him in our courts if greed was a crime, is there enough hard evidence?

[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 06-26-2011).]

When I was in school, I hated History. It was "stuff that happened a long time ago, in far away lands".
I was more concerned about the here and now. Science and etc.
But then, I hated schoool anyway. Seemed like a huge waste of time. Half of the things I was taught appeared to have no relevance to real life. Short sighted, at the least. But that 's the way I was.
(Always have been more than a little bit ADHD. If I had been in school now, they'd have me pumped full of so much ritalin that I'd be floating down the halls.)

Now, I love history. The History Channel is my favorite channel on the tube (and I generally don't watch much TV, otherwise) and I was damn near elated when I discovered the "History International" channel. Of course, I recognize the agendas (global warming/climate change, etc.) that the producers have, so I take all associated programming with a grain of salt.
I enjoy reading about inventions and inventors. Especially "obscure" or odd things. Just anything I happen to stumble across, really.

History and english were my least favorite subjects in Highschool. I did enough work in each to make sure I didn't have to repeat the classes. Sometimes something in History or Englich would peak my interest and I'd pull a B or better that quarter or semester but usually I got a C- or D+. I dd however really enjoy Government my Senior year and got a B or better in that class all year.

We did learn about WWII at my school, but then my Highschool was one of the top 5 in California at the time. But yes, I thought History class sucked.

Most of my learning about WW2 as a kid came from dad....he grew up in Denmark during it. He still tells about seeing ariel battles and B-17s, Lancs and fighters crashing around his area.

Text books are made to be taught for a set time period. In K-12, they are generally made for the entire year with the exception of a few semester length classes. In college, they are made for the semester. That means that by the end of the class, you should have read the entire text book.

You had poor teachers. They only made it through half the text book and only half the curriculum. Regular teachers would have taught the entire text book and curriculum. An outstanding teacher would have taught the entire curriculum plus half of next year's.


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The bread crumbs eventually end somewhere.

History classes were ok for me. Tho i didn't pay as much attention to it as i should have.

quote Originally posted by DeLorean00: I remember being is school and each time I took a history class the first thing I would do was flip to the back of the book. And in the back of the book there was modern interesting stuff. Like the last few chapters would be on the Gulf War. And I thought this will be awesome I cant wait to learn about that. And the a few chapters back there would be Vietnam War, once again I would think that will be interesting, and then WWII the war I really wanted to learn about. But every class was the same thing, we would work are way through the first half the book and the class would end. We would be lucky if we made it to WWI. In all my years in school and college, I was never taught one thing about WWII!! Both my grandfathers were in that war and as far as my education went, that war never happened. I always felt like they should teach history from the back of the book to the front. Kids would be way more interested in the modern events they could relate to. Anyone else go through school and college, never learning one thing about WWII?

YES!!!! I've been saying this forever!!! I too never learned ANYTHING about ANY of those critical wars... everything I learned, I learned later in life from electives in college, or by watching the History Channel.

Seriously!!! this makes me soo mad.


I went to a very Republican elementary school early on, St. Christophers. Just to give you an idea... my best friend from that "graduating class", Henry Hager, married Jenna Bush... that's how Republican it was. Even with that, I didn't learn anything in History... nothing. Middle school was also a prep boarding school, Eaglebrook, but that was in Massachusetts and even though I love the school to death, it was somewhat of a liberal school. I learned American History (my teacher was awesome). We touched basically on the revolutionary war. Aside from that, I took an elective in Greek Mythology (awesome class). In high school, I went to a public high school in Vienna, Virginia (James Madison). Our history was very basic... we again, learned about the revolutionary war in "American History." I took another class called "World Studies" which studied the major religions of the entire world. We didn't bother to learn about Christianity because the teacher said "You guys already know about that stuff..." To some extent she was right, still though. On a positive note, they actually did spend equal time on every religion, and gave no additional time to Islam over the others. Of course, this was pre-9/11 so no one really thought anything about Islam (really). My next history class... not really sure what it was called, but it focused on American historical figureheads. We learned about George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, etc... basically the founding fathers. We also learned about Dr. Martin Luther King. The only thing is, we spent over a month learning about Dr. King. While I think what he did was amazing, it seemed rather disproportionate to spend a full month on Dr. King, and only 1 week on George Washington. The next history class was actually an American Government class... and the history teacher spent about half the time talking about the Civil War. He was black, so he had us watch "Glory" in high school. Which I must say, is an absolute awesome movie. I have no problems with that class at all, it was great, but THAT was all the history I got from K-12... that's it.

I did take a Geometry class, and the teacher was a WW2 veteran (old guy). Any WW2 history I did learn, I had learned from him in that class because he referenced mortar attacks when he described parabalas, etc... (the teacher was awesome).

But that's it.

When I left high school, I didn't know a damn thing about WW2... honestly, I thought WW1 was with the germans, and WW2 was with the Japanese... (don't laugh). I had no idea what the Korean war was, and I knew nothing about Vietnam other than that "it was bad." I still never really learned anything about the Spanish-American war... haven't even learned much about it other than that there's an obscure monument near the Arlington Cemetery that honors the soldiers, and that I have a ggg, grandfather who fought in it.


Everything I learned after the fact was from the History Channel...


EDIT: Just read the other comments, how funny is it that all of us seemed to have gotten the majority of our learning in history from the History Channel??? That seems to be the reocurring theme in everyone's posts?

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 06-26-2011).]

As I get older, I find history fascinates me more because I have a better grasp that these were real events and people, not just stuff glossed over in a book. We look at movies like 300, King Arthur, and Lord of the Rings and you can't really distinguish where reality - HISTORY - ends and fantasy begins. To be sure, 300 is a stylized tail told in the Spartan point of view, but it's a real event in history that actually happened. You can go there.

Thermopylae as seen from the East

This is where Spartans fought and died so many years ago - on this very spot. (The road is built on reclaimed land and is about where the coastline was in 480 B.C.)

King Leonidas was a real person. You can visit the monument to him in Thermopylae.

Xerces didn't do a good job of wiping out his existence, did he?

We are all history. 2000 years from now they will teach of the Industrial Age much like we refer to the Bronze Age today. The invention of powered flight will be similar to China's invention of gun powder. From the games in the Roman Colosseum to the first Super Bowl in Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum, they will wonder how we lived, how we survived and who we were.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 06-26-2011).]

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Everything I learned after the fact was from the History Channel... EDIT: Just read the other comments, how funny is it that all of us seemed to have gotten the majority of our learning in history from the History Channel??? That seems to be the reocurring theme in everyone's posts?

Yeah, not me. One, I don't have cable. Two, I think reading gives you SO MUCH MORE... tv shows have time limits, and commercial TV shows also have agendas. History channel is okay when you are watching "Planes of the Reich" or something like that, but to truly be a student of history, you guys are gonna have to crack open books, make comparisons between historian accounts, draw conclusions and even maybe write papers or your own book. I generally try to stick with the most accredited historians, but it is fun to see outsider points of views on things, especially the 60's and the Civil War. Of course, my Civil War history is my favorite, and two american sides to that story make it that much more fun decoding it. I am currently gathering facts and sources for writing my first history book on the Civil War. It will focus on the Confederate Constitution, the effects of Europe on the slave trade and the war, notable soldiers and generals who are less well known than the big names.. and a couple of "What If's". Fun stuff!

I did really well in Art, History and English in school. Bombed math completely... barely passed algebra, and only because he was a good teacher. In fact, I never got my art degree because of math gen-ed credits. I do want to go back and get a degree in History, soon.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 06-26-2011).]

I agree with tbone42 about reading instead of watching history. TV often inserts the wrong images into the wrong war--especially anything about Korea.

With regard to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, the emnity between the US and the Japanese festered for many, many years. Teddy Roosevelt hosted the New Bruswick treaty that ended the 1905 Russo-Japanese war with terms that favored the Russians despite the fact that the Japanese Navy whipped the Russians hands down. The Japanese never forgot the obvious favoritism but they still sent their most prominent geologist to San Francisco after the 1906 earthquake to help the Americans cope with rebuilding. The poor man was beaten and chased to his hotel and soon left.

Japan sided with the Allies in WWI but in the Naval Powers treaty in 1922 (I think--memory fails me here as to what treaty it was), the Japanese were limited to a small number of warships compared to the other Allies. The Japanese saw this as yet another insult to their nation pride and ignorance of their emerging role in Asia. The Japanese began to make contingency plans for any war against the US and one scenario was to bomb Pearl Harbor and land troops on the West Coast to push us to the Rockies. They knew they had litle chance of winning such a war but with an occupation this large, they could secure Hawaii and the whole mineral rich portion of the US.

They founded the Southeast Asia CoProspertiy Sphere to spread their influence to the region but the US saw this as an act of aggression especially when they tried to include the Philippines tha the US won fair and square from the Spanish in 1898. The attack on China began to very much worry the US and the rest is history, so they say. All the above are facts I learned in my college history classes. From several books, incidentally and not from TV.

The purpose of teaching history is to see what was happening in a time period and how nations responded to those events, and not repeating the mistakes of the past. Unfortunately the winners of the conflicts write/rewrite history from their viewpoint so the events get a slant.

My cousin youngest went to elementary school in south Florida and learned about the civil war. When they move to NC, he asked his father "Didn't the north win the civil war?" as the NC school were putting their slant on the events of the civil war and he was learning a different view on who "won" the civil war.

I went to school a mere ten years after WW II and we had lots if history classes at some point about WW II. However during the last four years of high school we were taught about the American Revolutionary war, then european history during that time frame, WW I of Europe and WW I in the US and by senior year how world history led to WW II. When you put all the pieces together, we could see what was happening in Europe and what was happening in the US from the 1920s and world wide depression and what caused WW II.

I found it interesting when ll the pieces came together. But in the 50s and 60s the school system wasn't run by the liberal (Vietnam draft dogers) teachers of today, but by those who grew up during the great depression and who lived during or served in WW II.

[This message has been edited by Old Lar (edited 06-26-2011).]

All I remember about grade school history classes is that (according to our textbooks) People of Color didn't do anything of note after the Civil War.

My parents saw to it I filled in the gaps.

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: All I remember about grade school history classes is that (according to our textbooks) People of Color didn't do anything of note after the Civil War. My parents saw to it I filled in the gaps.

Unfortunately, many things and events were or are left out of the history books. Good for you that your parents cared enough to fill in the pages.

As with most history classes, if you want to know more about a specific time frame, you have to seek out a class featuring that time or, do your own research.

Too many events have been left out and forgotten. Too many events have been told from only one perspective but, that's the way it is.

Clint Eastwood did a movie, I can't remember the name but, it was a story told of a battle between American and Japanese during WW2 as seen from the Japanese side. Watching it was a good experience both for myself and my dad who fought in that war. He didn't agree with some of it but, he did recognize the difference in perspectives.

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Ron

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: All I remember about grade school history classes is that (according to our textbooks) People of Color didn't do anything of note after the Civil War. My parents saw to it I filled in the gaps.

Your parents, as most were, were walking talking history books, only needing ones ear.
You are fortunate to have lent them yours.