Wait, what was that rumbling? The end of the world?

nah...


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gay_marriage_ny

was going home late tonight...

Hafta say, I've NEVER seen that many same-sex couples on the streets and subways. They seems kinda happy about something, but weren't going nuts or anything... I didn't know they passed it till I got home...


Most folks just want to find happiness with someone they care about. Hope this helps them to find it.

And I hope people who are against it are allowed to remain against it, either for religious and/or personal reasons.

Bigger problems in the world right now then one's choice of life partner, imo...

[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 06-24-2011).]

yay one more thing to tax in NY! the terrorists politicians will be happy.

I think this is awesome.
I have a couple friends in NY who must be ecstatic!! They have been waiting for years to legally tie the knot.

Religion is by far the most over whelming reason why people are against gay marriage.

Me? I fully believe in freedom and I personally believe that gay marriage should be legal and polygamy.

The only place I draw the line is that so long as they are adults and are mentally capable of making a legal decision on their own.

Other than that, the "sanctity of marriage" is all bull crap in my mind. It's nothing more that a business legal contract between adults.

[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 06-25-2011).]

I predict that divorce lawyers will be ecstatic.

quote Originally posted by spark1: I predict that divorce lawyers will be ecstatic.

^^^ This ^^^

quote Originally posted by spark1: I predict that divorce lawyers will be ecstatic.

Wait until custody battles happen for kids. I mean, usually they side with the "mother".

With gender out as a preference, how will this affect even straight couples once precedent has been made over wiping away "gender" or "mother" preference when it comes to primary custody over children and visitation.

Oh Yeah is divorce lawyers going to love that. Billable hours are going to jump like no other.

Well they won't be breeding. If they do it will be a miracle birth, then who is the mommy and who is the daddy? All life styles should find the same misery of the hetrosexual married couples.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Religion is by far the most over whelming reason why people are against gay marriage.

Bigotry and fear of other ways of life is the real reason. Religion is just an excuse for many people to persecute others and feel good about it..

My personal feeling is the government shouldn't be approving ANY form of marriage. It should be between 2 ( or more ) adults only. But like said above, marriage is just another excuse to tax people and influence behavior.

My fiance and I are Christians and have talked about some of the potential implications of this legislation in regards to their faith. I am personally not against gay couples being able to gain legally recognized rights of married couples under state law. In fact, I never understood why they were exempt.

I also understand the contradiction marriage of gay couples poses to Christians. Although the bible does not specifically say gay marriage is against God, it does in numerous parts talk about gay relations as being sinful, and that marriage under God is a union between a man and a woman.

My hope would be that people do not use this legislation as an opportunity to try and impose on church's which do not want to perform marriages for gay couples as a way to attack them. (Just as much as I would hope that churches or Christians would not openly discriminate against gays either. Too often, the most outspoken forget that Jesus wished them to love their neighbors above just about all else).

Gay marriage. Oh, SWELL

quote Originally posted by Fformula88: My fiance and I are Christians and have talked about some of the potential implications of this legislation in regards to their faith. I am personally not against gay couples being able to gain legally recognized rights of married couples under state law. In fact, I never understood why they were exempt. I also understand the contradiction marriage of gay couples poses to Christians. Although the bible does not specifically say gay marriage is against God, it does in numerous parts talk about gay relations as being sinful, and that marriage under God is a union between a man and a woman. My hope would be that people do not use this legislation as an opportunity to try and impose on church's which do not want to perform marriages for gay couples as a way to attack them. (Just as much as I would hope that churches or Christians would not openly discriminate against gays either. Too often, the most outspoken forget that Jesus wished them to love their neighbors above just about all else).

^^^ This. Well put ^^^

quote Originally posted by Fformula88: Although the bible does not specifically say gay marriage is against God, it does in numerous parts talk about gay relations as being sinful, and that marriage under God is a union between a man and a woman.

So what does a divorce look under God?

quote Originally posted by Fformula88: My hope would be that people do not use this legislation as an opportunity to try and impose on church's which do not want to perform marriages for gay couples as a way to attack them.

There isn't any agenda against any church(es). And I don't think you will find the government ever forcing churches to perform 'sinful' marriages.

David Tyree is gonna be REAL mad about this.

Let the "Slide to Anarchy" begin... or let Tyree look like an idiot. I wonder which will happen?

I :heart: NY

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 06-25-2011).]

quote Originally posted by tbone42: Let the "Slide to Anarchy" begin...

That started a long time ago.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: So what does a divorce look under God?

Equally as sinful of course. (God allows in very limited situations, but is still displeased with it).

quote There isn't any agenda against any church(es). And I don't think you will find the government ever forcing churches to perform 'sinful' marriages.

I did not say there was an agenda. However, I have seen some concerning things pop up elsewhere. In Illinois, Catholic Charities may be forced to stop their adpotion service because they won't adopt to gay couples due to discrimination suits.

quote Originally posted by Fformula88: Equally as sinful of course. (God allows in very limited situations, but is still displeased with it).

quote Originally posted by heybjorn: That started a long time ago.

I don't know about that, with the increase of punitive laws on the books, and consolidating of powers and governmental control. Anarchy, if it did exist, would be no system, no authority power or hierarchy ruling over us.. but that is something we actually have plenty of. Too much, imho.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 06-25-2011).]

I don't really care one way or the other. But being a NY state resident and seeing all the time spent on this I couldn't help feeling resentful as this state has a lot of other more important problems that concern many more of us than gay marriage does. Like the state's financial problems, the economy, jobs, corrupt polititians, etc.

Larry

quote Originally posted by tbone42: If you are a Christian, or read the bible, then you might already know that Jesus had a LOT more to say about divorce than gayness. He hardly mentioned homosexuals, but he is down on divorce big time. with supposed "just cause exceptions" for men and women, but rare. I know a guy who was a "Christian" and divorced his wife because he was sick of her. So what? I'm sick of my wife sometimes, too.. but making a promise before God, in sickness and in health good times and bad.. that was all part of the deal. I find too many people nowadays just dont even try, and fly the coop at the first sign of marital trouble like little children. I mean, how many nowadays call themselves "happily married"? I hardly ever hear that term except when I use it, and getting happier about it all the time.

I am, and do. I basically agree with everything you have to say. A lot of people (and many Christians) treat marriage as just a social contract, like a business agreement, instead of the promise before God. So they just move to disolve the contract instead of working out issues.

Congrats on your happy marriage!

quote Originally posted by Larryh86GT: I don't really care one way or the other. But being a NY state resident and seeing all the time spent on this I couldn't help feeling resentful as this state has a lot of other more important problems that concern many more of us than gay marriage does. Like the state's financial problems, the economy, jobs, corrupt polititians, etc. Larry

Best point of all Larry. This state is a disaster area. It would be nice to see the legislature expend this kind of energy and time in resolving all of the syaye's many crisises.

quote Originally posted by Fformula88: I am, and do. I basically agree with everything you have to say. A lot of people (and many Christians) treat marriage as just a social contract, like a business agreement, instead of the promise before God. So they just move to disolve the contract instead of working out issues. Congrats on your happy marriage!

Because that is the way it really is.

Promise to god? LOL! The only reason why people get married is because they enjoy their company and get to have sex with each other without their families and society giving them religious guilt.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Because that is the way it really is. Promise to god? LOL! The only reason why people get married is because they enjoy their company and get to have sex with each other without their families and society giving them religious guilt.

I dont agree that is the only reason.

[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 06-25-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Nurb432: I dont agree that is the only reason.

I guess there could be a few others. You can throw in some security and all that. But for religious reasons (other than forced or arranged marriages) is probably in the fraction of a % in the percentile of reasons.

This is actually an endorsement of gay marriage. Gay marriage was already legal. Any two people can choose to spend their lives together and call it a "marriage" without the government's approval. A marriage license is a special kind of endorsement from the government that gives certain rights, privileges and comes with restrictions.


.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: I guess there could be a few others. You can throw in some security and all that. But for religious reasons (other than forced or arranged marriages) is probably in the fraction of a % in the percentile of reasons.

To me its a 'statement of commitment', as i have no religious background. I cant speak for others, just wanted to say not 'all' people do it so they don't get yelled at for having sex ( actually with all my friends, not one has got married for that reason and a few are waiting for more laws like this... )

[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 06-25-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Nurb432: To me its a 'statement of commitment', as i have no religious background. I cant speak for others, just wanted to say not 'all' people do it so they don't get yelled at for having sex ( actually with all my friends, not one has got married for that reason and a few are waiting for more laws like this... )

So your significant other is somebody that you do not enjoy the company of, nor do you care to ever participate in any sexual acts together. The only reason is because it was a statement of commitment that you will be a loyal servant to another person?

Find that very hard to believe. But maybe in your world and you could be under an arrange marriage for all I know.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: This is actually an endorsement of gay marriage. Gay marriage was already legal. Any two people can choose to spend their lives together and call it a "marriage" without the government's approval. A marriage license is a special kind of endorsement from the government that gives certain rights, privileges and comes with restrictions. .

Not that i disagree with the concept, but I do believe that the ability to use the term 'married' is bound to the legal system. If its not 'legally' recognized its not technically marriage. ( thus why even if a church marries you they still have to file it with the state... )

[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 06-25-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Nurb432: Not that i disagree with the concept, but I do believe that the ability to use the term 'married' is bound to the legal system. If its not 'legally' recognized its not technically marriage. ( thus why even if a church marries you they still have to file it with the state... )

The government does not recognize a plumber unless they are state licensed. Does that mean you can't replace your own faucet if it is leaking?


.

------------------
The bread crumbs eventually end somewhere.

I am hugely in favour of allowing gay marriage.

I'm not gay.

I don't know many gay people.

But one thing is for sure, I don't like bigotry, and I don't like the government imposing itself on the lives of good citizens.

I don't have to be gay, or care one way or another to support this decision.

People thought at one point that women shouldn't need the right to vote. Democracy would fail.

It didn't. It changed.

People thought that black people were property. The ecomomy would fail.

It didn't. It changed.

I could go on and on. We are today standing in front of another group of people that are oppressed. They are asking to be heard.

You don't have to like them. You don't have to be friends with them. To all hardcore conservatives: you don't have to **** them either. Oh, that was funnier than originally intended. Quite a few seem to like to do that.

You just need to stay out of their way.

I certainly don't want the fight to go to the church. I think a church has an equal right to declare that in this building and this congregation, we marry one man to one woman.

This entire issue has nothing to do with government. It is solely between religious groups and the LGBT community, along with others like myself that care.

PS, in BC, we've had gay marriage for quite some time. The sky hasn't fallen yet.

Wichita, do you realize how annoying you are? Prancing around attacking all religion even to those that aren't religious doesn't help your case.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: The government does not recognize a plumber unless they are state licensed. Does that mean you can't replace your own faucet if it is leaking? .

I did state that i personally agree with the practice of 2 ( or more ) people doing their own thing without government intervention., i was only commenting on using the term 'married'..

Using your plumber example, there are several 'trades' here in this state that you MUST be licensed or you cant call yourself one.. you can still do the job of course, you just cant call yourself one legally, nor get some advantages extended to you by having the license ( much like the marriage subject ).

[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 06-25-2011).]

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Wichita, do you realize how annoying you are? Prancing around attacking all religion even to those that aren't religious doesn't help your case.

Just pray for me. God has a plan for me. It's his will.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Just pray for me. God has a plan for me. It's his will.

Why would someone ask a non believer pray at all? ( if i remember right, bdub isn't religious )

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Religion is by far the most over whelming reason why people are against gay marriage. Me? I fully believe in freedom and I personally believe that gay marriage should be legal and polygamy. The only place I draw the line is that so long as they are adults and are mentally capable of making a legal decision on their own. Other than that, the "sanctity of marriage" is all bull crap in my mind. It's nothing more that a business legal contract between adults.

I support gay marriage, but I know this thread for you is more about bashing religion, rather than anything to do with homosexuals. "Marriage" is a concept that was created from religion... as far back as pre-recorded history. The "term" in modern times has become generalized to basically mean another word for "civil union." Technically, that's not the case, as there isn't a single old-world religion that I can think of that accepts gay marriage. I mean, even the Bahai's don't support gay marriage, and they are about as liberal as you get... the Wiccas I think support it, but that religion isn't even 100 years old yet.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I support gay marriage, but I know this thread for you is more about bashing religion, rather than anything to do with homosexuals. "Marriage" is a concept that was created from religion... as far back as pre-recorded history. The "term" in modern times has become generalized to basically mean another word for "civil union." Technically, that's not the case, as there isn't a single old-world religion that I can think of that accepts gay marriage. I mean, even the Bahai's don't support gay marriage, and they are about as liberal as you get... the Wiccas I think support it, but that religion isn't even 100 years old yet.

The wiccians i know support it, so i'm assuming they do as a whole.

quote Originally posted by Nurb432: I did state that i personally agree with the practice of 2 ( or more ) people doing their own thing without government intervention., i was only commenting on using the term 'married'.. Using your plumber example, there are several 'trades' here in this state that you MUST be licensed or you cant call yourself one.. you can still do the job of course, you just cant call yourself one legally, nor get some advantages extended to you by having the license ( much like the marriage subject ).

I don't accept that the government has control over the words that any person chooses to use or not use. If a couple moved into my neighborhood and told everyone they were married, short of looking up their marriage license in a courthouse or hiring a private detective, who would know? If some government official gets word that some couple is using the word "marriage" illegally, are they going to send in the police to arrest them?

That is all nonsense. The only time the government is involved is when someone tries to exercise the special rights or privileges that having a marriage license grants. That just shows that issuing marriage licenses to homosexuals is actually an endorsement, not a legalization. Homosexuals could live, love, share and spend their lives together before NY chose to give its blessing.


.

------------------
The bread crumbs eventually end somewhere.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: I don't accept that the government has control over the words that any person chooses to use or not use. If a couple moved into my neighborhood and told everyone they were married, short of looking up their marriage license in a courthouse or hiring a private detective, who would know? If some government official gets word that some couple is using the word "marriage" illegally, are they going to send in the police to arrest them? That is all nonsense. The only time the government is involved is when someone tries to exercise the special rights or privileges that having a marriage license grants. That just shows that issuing marriage licenses to homosexuals is actually an endorsement, not a legalization. Homosexuals could live, love, share and spend their lives together before NY chose to give its blessing. .

I am now going to call myself "Doctor". Unless someone looks up my license or hires an investigator who will know? If they find out no one will be coming to my door to arrest me anyway.

Sarcasm aside, I'm not saying i agree with it, but i firmly believe that the term 'marriage' indicates legal status with the 'state' and is a fairly modern construct of government designed to effect peoples behavior. And don't get me wrong I'm NOT saying that if 2 people 'commit' to each other that its any less ( or more... ) than 2 people that get 'married'. What is important is the 2 ( or more ) people, not paperwork that goes with it. I have several gay friends that are 'committed' via ceremony but not on the books as 'married'. I also have a poligimst friend group and they are just as committed, but not 'married'...


And its a dead horse semantic discussion anyway.....

[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 06-25-2011).]