You'd be an idiot to buy one. For less than half the price you could get the Lotus it is based on, which offers superior performance. With the $50,000 left over you could buy a LOT of gas, or buy a Chevy Volt. Hell, you could buy an Exige, which is even faster and sexier.
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06:02 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35467 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Yeah, I figured, and I wasn't calling HIM an idiot, I meant people in general. Kinda like I would be an idiot if I bought a can of coke for $10 when I could buy a 12 pack for $5
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06:11 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Im not sold on electric cars period.....but id be susceptable to one that could go 150 miles at freeway speeds as long as it had at least a 10year/100K end to end drivetrain/battery warranty.
Yeah, I figured, and I wasn't calling HIM an idiot, I meant people in general. Kinda like I would be an idiot if I bought a can of coke for $10 when I could buy a 12 pack for $5
I like the broad brush stroke that paints every one of the more than 1,600 folks that bought the Tesla Roadster as idiots.
The comparison with a can of Coke is meaningless. Better to compare it to something that has wide market pricing, such as Scotches. Would someone who spent $200 on a bottle of Scotch be an idiot since they could have bought the same amount of flavored alcohol for $8 in a plastic jug?
Or another comparison, a high-end Ferrari vs a Chevy Cobalt. Is everyone who pays a million for a Ferrari an idiot when they could have gotten a car that could do the same job for $12,000?
Maybe it's not about just moving butts around, ever consider that?
You wave that brush around with out a clue, of course... They sold every Roadster they built and there's a waiting line.
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06:36 PM
Cheever3000 Member
Posts: 12398 From: The Man from Tallahassee Registered: Aug 2001
I like the broad brush stroke that paints every one of the more than 1,600 folks that bought the Tesla Roadster as idiots.
The comparison with a can of Coke is meaningless. Better to compare it to something that has wide market pricing, such as Scotches. Would someone who spent $200 on a bottle of Scotch be an idiot since they could have bought the same amount of flavored alcohol for $8 in a plastic jug?
Or another comparison, a high-end Ferrari vs a Chevy Cobalt. Is everyone who pays a million for a Ferrari an idiot when they could have gotten a car that could do the same job for $12,000?
Maybe it's not about just moving butts around, ever consider that?
You wave that brush around with out a clue, of course... They sold every Roadster they built and there's a waiting line.
If you are ever going to be happy, you need to realize that it's not your job to defend everyone that is wronged.
People are allowed to think things. It's like you get off arguing man, relax a bit, read, and enjoy. If you can't hit the back button every once in awhile, or avoid a thread that you know upsets you then you may need help.
And, I think that anyone that buys an electric car to save fuel, or end global warming is a fool.
I also think I am right 100% of the time, so there is no sense trying to change my mind.
I like the broad brush stroke that paints every one of the more than 1,600 folks that bought the Tesla Roadster as idiots.
The comparison with a can of Coke is meaningless. Better to compare it to something that has wide market pricing, such as Scotches. Would someone who spent $200 on a bottle of Scotch be an idiot since they could have bought the same amount of flavored alcohol for $8 in a plastic jug?
Or another comparison, a high-end Ferrari vs a Chevy Cobalt. Is everyone who pays a million for a Ferrari an idiot when they could have gotten a car that could do the same job for $12,000?
Maybe it's not about just moving butts around, ever consider that?
You wave that brush around with out a clue, of course... They sold every Roadster they built and there's a waiting line.
Great post.
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07:54 PM
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TommyRocker Member
Posts: 2808 From: Woodstock, IL Registered: Dec 2009
I like the broad brush stroke that paints every one of the more than 1,600 folks that bought the Tesla Roadster as idiots.
The comparison with a can of Coke is meaningless. Better to compare it to something that has wide market pricing, such as Scotches. Would someone who spent $200 on a bottle of Scotch be an idiot since they could have bought the same amount of flavored alcohol for $8 in a plastic jug?
Or another comparison, a high-end Ferrari vs a Chevy Cobalt. Is everyone who pays a million for a Ferrari an idiot when they could have gotten a car that could do the same job for $12,000?
Maybe it's not about just moving butts around, ever consider that?
You wave that brush around with out a clue, of course... They sold every Roadster they built and there's a waiting line.
Don't be stupid...Stupid. The Tesla Roadster is a downgraded Lotus Elise. You can't POSSIBLY think it is the same as comparing a Ferrari to a Cobalt. You see, a Ferrari is NOT a downgraded Cobalt, so that comparison does NOT work. See how this works?
Now, if you want to argue that those people are actually smart because they decided to spend their $110,000 on a small piece of activism and perceived moral superiority...well then, that is another topic altogether.
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08:17 PM
Tony Kania Member
Posts: 20794 From: The Inland Northwest Registered: Dec 2008
If you are ever going to be happy, you need to realize that it's not your job to defend everyone that is wronged.
People are allowed to think things. It's like you get off arguing man, relax a bit, read, and enjoy. If you can't hit the back button every once in awhile, or avoid a thread that you know upsets you then you may need help.
And, I think that anyone that buys an electric car to save fuel, or end global warming is a fool.
I also think I am right 100% of the time, so there is no sense trying to change my mind.
Brad
Dude! It's scary sometimes the way that we think alike.
Jazz... Breath. Relax. Seriously, take a valium and just chill.
And FYI, I would never buy a Tesla. I like my vehicles belching emissions.
Tonyh
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 06-22-2011).]
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08:22 PM
naskie18 Member
Posts: 6258 From: Commerce Twp, MI, USA Registered: Jun 2002
Yeah, I figured, and I wasn't calling HIM an idiot, I meant people in general. Kinda like I would be an idiot if I bought a can of coke for $10 when I could buy a 12 pack for $5
Have you ever had coke in glass bottles?
There's a darn good reason I pay for that rather than cans/plastic bottles. To some people, certain things are worth spending significantly more money on, even though someone who doesn't understand their reasonings may think it's stupid.
------------------ Nick www.naskie18.com GoogleTalk: naskie18 AIM: naskie18
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08:46 PM
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
To some people, certain things are worth spending significantly more money on, even though someone who doesn't understand their reasonings may think it's stupid.
Well said. Sometimes a purchase decision is a matter of value, rather than price alone ... and value can be subjective and an expression of highly individual values.
Someone may think that some of my purchase decisions are "stupid," but I don't care. I buy things to satisfy myself and my needs, not to impress anybody else, and I can be my own harshest critic.
quote
Have you ever had coke in glass bottles?
Mmmm, yes ... and made with real cane sugar (sucrose)!
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 06-22-2011).]
Any 100% electric car is a useless piece of crap that will only degrade with age. I live close to the original facility in Palo Alto and fairly close to the NUMMI plant that they acquired. The car is an overpriced midget mobile that the execs drive locally. I would not trust one going to Los Angeles or any other long drive. The only thing that will happen is the batteries will degrade and cause less miles per charge and more expenses for the owner. Good riddance if they close down and take the Prius with you.....since you share the same manufacturing plant.
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12:17 AM
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
Im in Ohio and can live without AC. I rarely even use it in the house. On an all electric car the fan and compressor would seriously eat up your battery power / mileage. I dont have any figures to back it up, but Ill bet the load would take 1/3-1/2 of the battery power. On a gas car the biggest drain is headlites and AC ...assuming you dont have a megawatt stereo.
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10:59 AM
Fformula88 Member
Posts: 7891 From: Buffalo, NY Registered: Mar 2000
Tesla is a neat story so far, but not overly practical. Their goal is eventually to move the technology to a point where the purchase price, and the range are both practical for a good number of people. Neither is there yet, but they are still in business and producing cars.
For myself, I cannot see buying a pure electric at any price at this point. Maybe the day will come when I change my mind. (Although, they are going to have to get a LOT cheaper to buy too).
Whether it is smart for someone else to buy is their decision. Some might say I am an idiot for buying a Fiero.
[This message has been edited by Fformula88 (edited 06-23-2011).]
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11:06 AM
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jaskispyder Member
Posts: 21510 From: Northern MI Registered: Jun 2002
Electric cars have a purpose. As for battery replacement and such... a recent study found that Toyota batteries were lasting beyond 7 years (or so) without a loss in capacity. As for me, in the Aztek, I had to replace the radiator, transmission, head gasket, intake gasket (multiple times).... So, I wouldn't be too concerned about just replacing a battery, at least it can be planned for.
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11:29 AM
frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999
Tesla is a neat story so far, but not overly practical. Their goal is eventually to move the technology to a point where the purchase price, and the range are both practical for a good number of people. Neither is there yet, but they are still in business and producing cars.
For myself, I cannot see buying a pure electric at any price at this point. Maybe the day will come when I change my mind. (Although, they are going to have to get a LOT cheaper to buy too).
Whether it is smart for someone else to buy is their decision.
Well, honestly from a purely FINANCIAL viewpoint is isn't smart for anyone to buy one. But that doesn't make it a bad thing that people buy them. Actually, it is a good thing for the rest of us.
10 years ago (approximately) you couldn't buy a laptop for under $2,000. They were a lot slower than now. People forked out a LOT of money for relatively little performance. But we needed those early adopters to fund the companies to continue the development of their product.
It took a long time for them to finally crack the below $1,000 barrier. Then $700 was the floor. Now it is about $500, and you can get an exceptional performing laptop.
If anyone gets a purely electric car right now, they are an early adopter and are going to pay prices that the vast majority of us could never afford, and wouldn't do if we could. But we need people to buy these cars so that MAYBE 10 years from now, they have a relatively affordable pure electric for the rest of us. No criticism to Old Lar, but the title thread was misleading. It is just the roadster production that is coming to an end, not Tesla over-all.
I do not share many world views with Jazz, but I do not see him as stupid.
You on the other hand are just a jerk.
Tommyknocker just needs to get a couple of decades under his belt, like a fine whisky. He's shallow, harsh, simple, and brash now, just like something first going into the barrel, but after some time to mature he could be a pretty decent human being.
Originally posted by frontal lobe: Well, honestly from a purely FINANCIAL viewpoint is isn't smart for anyone to buy one. But that doesn't make it a bad thing that people buy them. Actually, it is a good thing for the rest of us.
No criticism to Old Lar, but the title thread was misleading. It is just the roadster production that is coming to an end, not Tesla over-all.
From a purely financial viewpoint it's only smart to buy the cheapest high gas mileage car on the market, like a Hyundai, Kia, Corolla, etc. What I think is hilarious is all the times I've seen folks drag out a calculator to prove why buying a hybrid "doesn't make financial sense", and turn around and buy some loaded expensive to operate and buy SUV that they'll spend 95% of its miles doing single-person commuting. It's one of those moments for me when I see this, over and over again. It's like I'm watching aliens on a sci-fi show, or maybe a Japanese game show (with all due respect to Japanese game shows, of course).
I get it, that EVs aren't right for some people, maybe even a lot of people, but what I don't get are the folks who go out of their way to attack EVs, post misleading and outright false information as part of what appears to be a negative propaganda campaign, and generally just infest EV threads with hateful stink. Why is that? Did an EV run over their dog when they were a kid? This kind of spin/lies/attack/demonization is generally only seen with political figures, and last time I checked there aren't any EVs running for office anywhere.
It's just a car.
If someone wants to build it, let them do it in peace.
If someone wants to buy it, let them buy it in peace.
That's the way it's supposed to work here in America.
Geez...
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01:55 PM
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7497 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
From the dirt under the fenders, you can see that this one is still being driven ... after 94 years.
...yea, but to replace the batteries on that puppy is way by far cheaper than those in the Tesla (or any of the other electric/hybrid cars of today), plus the fact that did not cost as much money as the Tesla (even taking into the value of the dollor at the time).
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02:53 PM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
They are only stopping production on the roadster to focus on the sedan.
One word: "Collector." Nice car and I see them all of the time here locally, but the roadster is way too much for my wallet. Truth be told, if they gave me a free roaster I'd take it in a heartbeat.
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03:00 PM
frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999
Originally posted by JazzMan: This kind of spin/lies/attack/demonization is generally only seen with political figures, and last time I checked there aren't any EVs running for office anywhere.
It's just a car.
You nailed it.
With electric vehicles, the emotional reaction to it IS political.
It is part of the zero emissions, no blood for oil, carbon foot print political back drop that electric vehicles are being produced in that causes the emotional backlash against them.
Not saying good or bad, right or wrong on those issues. That has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads.
Just saying that yes, the electric vehicle has a political charge to them that is polarizing. (Can't think of any other electrical terms to throw into the statement right now. )
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04:19 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Electric cars have a purpose. As for battery replacement and such... a recent study found that Toyota batteries were lasting beyond 7 years (or so) without a loss in capacity. As for me, in the Aztek, I had to replace the radiator, transmission, head gasket, intake gasket (multiple times).... So, I wouldn't be too concerned about just replacing a battery, at least it can be planned for.
You could buy a good used Aztek for a parts car for what a battery pack costs. It isnt like you go to Autozone and buy a new one for $75. 7 year battery wont convince me....like I say 10 year miniumum and maybe some kind of offer for prorating one after that. The battery is also not the only thing thats going to wear.
Originally posted by twofatguys: If you are ever going to be happy, you need to realize that it's not your job to defend everyone that is wronged.
People are allowed to think things. It's like you get off arguing man, relax a bit, read, and enjoy. If you can't hit the back button every once in awhile, or avoid a thread that you know upsets you then you may need help.
That was an unfair and inaccurate characterization of my remarks and comments, designed to either provoke a hostile response or to simply be insulting. Did you actually think you were acomplishing something positive?
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:
Dude! It's scary sometimes the way that we think alike.
Jazz... Breath. Relax. Seriously, take a valium and just chill.
And FYI, I would never buy a Tesla. I like my vehicles belching emissions.
With electric vehicles, the emotional reaction to it IS political.
It is part of the zero emissions, no blood for oil, carbon foot print political back drop that electric vehicles are being produced in that causes the emotional backlash against them.
Not saying good or bad, right or wrong on those issues. That has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads.
Just saying that yes, the electric vehicle has a political charge to them that is polarizing. (Can't think of any other electrical terms to throw into the statement right now. )
And I honestly think that politicizing a car is stupid. I mean, like, mentally impaired, needs to be held back a few grades, put in a mental health care facility, stupid.
You could buy a good used Aztek for a parts car for what a battery pack costs. It isnt like you go to Autozone and buy a new one for $75. 7 year battery wont convince me....like I say 10 year miniumum and maybe some kind of offer for prorating one after that. The battery is also not the only thing thats going to wear.
Roger, I think that the main barrier to you ever buying an EV is that it's not gasoline-powered. Maybe when EVs get to be $50 (not 50K, but fifty dollars) with a 100 year warranty on the battery and a 1,000 mile range on a charge, you'd probably reconsider, but given your age I doubt very seriously that their characteristics and your being alive will ever coincide.
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06:50 PM
naskie18 Member
Posts: 6258 From: Commerce Twp, MI, USA Registered: Jun 2002
Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Mmmm, yes ... and made with real cane sugar (sucrose)!
I've only got 4 more in my fridge.....and I had three cases of 24 at the beginning of May. Hi, I'm Nick, and I have a Coke problem
quote
[QUOTE]Originally posted by IMSA GT: Any 100% electric car is a useless piece of crap that will only degrade with age.
The same could be said of any new car. Perhaps there' a few models which are collectors cars and wold be exceptions to the degradation from a monetary standpoint, but the Tesla roaster is definitely on that list.
Here's the thing I think is getting missed in most of this: The people buying the Tesla roadster are looking at a car in the 100k price range. You guys are talking about how it isn't a wise decision to buy this electric car because it's so expensive. Is a ZR1 a wiser decision? A GT-R? Any other car in this price range? You're talking about it like it's some car that any one of us would buy purely to get us to and from work, and that isn't the case.
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10:27 PM
Jun 24th, 2011
Tomski Member
Posts: 152 From: Middletown, DE Registered: Apr 2011
So the US government has given them a $465,000,000 loan. That is just throwing bad money at bad ideas. An electric car is far from green when you talk all aspects of its production, lifespan, and disposal into consideration.
Would be better off spending money on your 20 year old car. That is truly being green, but people seem to miss this simple fact.
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08:20 AM
Fformula88 Member
Posts: 7891 From: Buffalo, NY Registered: Mar 2000
IMO, one real problem with 100% electrics moving forward is recharging time. Any gasoline car that the driver wishes to use beyond it's one tank range can refill it within minutes. Not so an electric. They are fine for around town, if you remember to plug them in overnight.
There are other issues as well, particularly cold. The batteries just do not operate nearly as efficiently in cold weather, reducing range considerably. Especially when you add in the need for HVAC. A Tesla may have an 80 mile range, at 75 degrees. I wonder what it would be in 15 degree weather in January in Buffalo. Probably a LOT less.
For me, these are deal breakers at virtually any price before I consider the price, longevity, or warranty on the battery pack.
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08:24 AM
Xyster Member
Posts: 1444 From: Great Falls MT Registered: Apr 2011
IMO, one real problem with 100% electrics moving forward is recharging time. Any gasoline car that the driver wishes to use beyond it's one tank range can refill it within minutes. Not so an electric. They are fine for around town, if you remember to plug them in overnight.
There are other issues as well, particularly cold. The batteries just do not operate nearly as efficiently in cold weather, reducing range considerably. Especially when you add in the need for HVAC. A Tesla may have an 80 mile range, at 75 degrees. I wonder what it would be in 15 degree weather in January in Buffalo. Probably a LOT less.
For me, these are deal breakers at virtually any price before I consider the price, longevity, or warranty on the battery pack.
That is exactly my problem with EVs. In this part of the US it isn't uncommon to travel to another city 100 (or more) miles away for a day trip. Arriving in another city with a dead battery and then finding a place to charge it sounds less than appealing. Not to mention you will then need to get a cab ($) to go from site to site while your car is charging.
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08:48 AM
Larryh86GT Member
Posts: 1757 From: Near sunny Buffalo NY Registered: Jan 2008
Roger, I think that the main barrier to you ever buying an EV is that it's not gasoline-powered. Maybe when EVs get to be $50 (not 50K, but fifty dollars) with a 100 year warranty on the battery and a 1,000 mile range on a charge, you'd probably reconsider, but given your age I doubt very seriously that their characteristics and your being alive will ever coincide.
Those are unreasonable. Im not. I would consider one with 10 year warranty (Hyundai does it already) at least 150 mile range on highway, $30K (average car price), and some body styling (like Tesla). That all seems pretty doable to me in the not so far future, except the price thing. What is unreasonable is a butt ugly car that goes 25 miles on a charge that costs $45K....and if you want to go farther its got a gas engine anyway just like the car it would replace....that I already have.
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01:38 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 22749 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
I have an electric golf cart that I got from the stadium a few years back. I have a really hard time keeping that thing charged. There's no "draw" but unless I keep the trickle charger plugged in, it's dead a month later when I go to use it. The batteries are ridiculously expensive... like $150 each, and it has six 6v deep cycle marine batteries. These batteries (by Trojan) are some of the best ones you can buy for golf carts, and really, they only last 5 years and require maintenance. I was able to revive them by charging them individually, adding chemical to the battery, and charging them as a whole, but the distance is attrocious. As time goes on, the amount of charge that it can hold goes down and down and down until you really can't even use the cart for anything worthwhile (like moving an injured football player off the field, let alone 18 holes of golf).
If these electric-only cars are anything like electric golf carts, then we've got a long way to go before this becomes viable technology. Electric motors would be awesome... but current battery technology is big, heavy, and not much different than it was 50+ years ago.
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moments for me when I see this, over and over again. It's like I'm watching aliens on a sci-fi show, or maybe a Japanese game show (with all due respect to Japanese game shows, of course).
