Originally posted by Raydar: ...... With all the vast expanse of the universe, I have a hard time believing that we're "it".
yes - but I also often think of this the other way - with the infinite universe - odds are there is life out there - yes - but - what if we ARE the results of those odds. probability works both ways.
But - yes - being the "compounds of life" have been found in every figgin nook & cranny of the universe we have looked at so far - yes - chances are more than good.
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12:28 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 22527 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
yes - but I also often think of this the other way - with the infinite universe - odds are there is life out there - yes - but - what if we ARE the results of those odds. probability works both ways.
But - yes - being the "compounds of life" have been found in every figgin nook & cranny of the universe we have looked at so far - yes - chances are more than good.
x2
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12:45 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 36251 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
I've heard other long time listeners of the program state the same thing (I've only been a listener for the last year), but when Art Bell comes on occasionaly as a guest host, I don't see what the great appeal is. I like him fine, but he doesn't seem like the holy grail of radio hosts to me. George Noory FTW.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-26-2011).]
Yes, Yes and Yes. I KNOW that we are not the only life in this reality. I FIRMLY believe in other dimensions, there is enough science now to back it up too. I do believe somewhere, someone has the ability to traverse great expanses of space.
The Universe is BILLIONS of years old. We as a genus are only a couple million years old... We have only been in our current evolutionary form.. upright, walking, 10 fingers and 10 toes.. etc etc for about 200,000 years! Ok so a little math.... The Universe is around 15 Billion years old. Our planet and solar system are fairly new to the neighborhood, coming in at about 4 billion years old. Then on top of that, We as a Genus are newcomers STILL, being around 2 Million years old, Then we branched off from our evolutionary ancestors about 200,000 years ago.
Now, in that 200,000 years, a VERY short time span when you consider the whole... We have created complex language and science. In the last 200 years, That progress has sped up exponentially. In modern time, our growth in knowledge doubles every couple of years. Advancements in technologies allows us to dream up bigger ideas, make faster computers, process more data...
So in the VERY Short time of 200,000 years we have gone from getting excited over fire, to discovering planets 20 light years away that show ALL the signs of supporting life. We can travel into space, put robots on other planets... Send probes out of our own solar system, to explore other galaxies. We even have solid theories on HOW to travel at the speed of light! We just do not currently have the technology to do it.
So what is my point? We are LATE-comers to the Universe. It is HIGHLY probable that there are species 4-7 billion ... yes BILLION years older than us. Do you not think, that in all that time, they would have created the technology needed to traverse the deep reaches of space? Is that really so hard to fathom?
UFO - Sure. Lots of things aren't identified. Aliens - I believe they COULD exist but I don't believe we have any evidence they DO exist. There is certainly nothing that would make this impossible. Heck, we are here, that's pretty good evidence they might be THERE.
I don't believe they are coming here. It's too far and I don't believe they have magic science to overcome that.
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02:29 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 36251 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
Never seen an Alien, but when I was 14 I witnessed along side my mother, aunt and little sister who all till this day remember. It was on the beach on a pitch black night. There was actually a huge party on the peir. To the east was the bermuda triangle this was in Port Saint Lucie beach,
We all saw what we thought was a "blood moon" or an orange moon split in two by many clouds. Only thing is was, the moon wasnt out that night and one of the "peices" vanished we thought the clouds were moving but then we notice the "top peice" was the same exact shape, thats when we realized we werent looking at the moon.
It vanished seconds after the first one, and the rest of the night the area of the sky where they were was brighter color than the rest of the sky. Like the entire enviroment was altered in a circumfrence.
UFO - yes and by definition everyone should as I am sure you have seen something flying that you didn't know what it was (be it a bug or some type of space ship).
Aliens - define, life can take on many forms and because of this I am sure there is life somewhere else in this universe that is 'alien' to ours.
...that being said, due to the sheer number of stars that exist and the countless planets that orbit these stars, I would have to agree that there is a really good chance that there are 'aliens' out there.
I looked more into the "star child skull", they have some pretty convincing arguments and updated results on their site. I must admit, its intriguing. I'm not suprised mainstream science doesn't want to touch the issue, they often run away from things that go outside of their box of thinking. Its funny too, because science is supposed to be "objective", but I have found scientist to be some of the most dogmatic people on earth.
...science is supposed to be "objective", but I have found scientist to be some of the most dogmatic people on earth.
I used to believe that scientists sought the "truth", whatever it turned out to be. I've now come to the conclusion that many (most?) of them are only interested in seeking "proof" that agrees with the goals of whomever is funding the "research". That's really quite sad when you think about it.
I used to believe that scientists sought the "truth", whatever it turned out to be. I've now come to the conclusion that many (most?) of them are only interested in seeking "proof" that agrees with the goals of whomever is funding the "research". That's really quite sad when you think about it.
it is sad. "truth" is often only accepted when it coincides with their world view. One only has to watch ancient aliens or a number of other shows on th history channel that show archeological proof of massive civilizations at times when man was supposedly in caves.
[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 05-26-2011).]
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06:39 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
I used to believe that scientists sought the "truth", whatever it turned out to be. I've now come to the conclusion that many (most?) of them are only interested in seeking "proof" that agrees with the goals of whomever is funding the "research". That's really quite sad when you think about it.
It would be if it were an accurate statement, but it's not. You can't paint all scientist with the same brush stroke.
Those that are paid to support a point of view, yes but that is not even a fraction of scientists and researchers.
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07:15 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 36251 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
You can't paint all scientist with the same brush stroke.
I wasn't aware that I had.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
I used to believe that scientists sought the "truth", whatever it turned out to be. I've now come to the conclusion that many (most?) of them are only interested in seeking "proof" that agrees with the goals of whomever is funding the "research".
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-26-2011).]
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07:19 PM
Flamberge Member
Posts: 4268 From: Terra Sancta, TX Registered: Oct 2001
It would be if it were an accurate statement, but it's not. You can't paint all scientist with the same brush stroke.
Those that are paid to support a point of view, yes but that is not even a fraction of scientists and researchers.
I suppose it depends on the science being studied, does it not? It is naive to think Patrick's example doesn't happen often - especially when funded by people other than the scientists themselves. If you study how wind energy works and somehow found a smoking gun against wind energy, but your grant was funded for the next five years by a wind energy company, you'd be out of a job if you reported it.
Can I infer from your replies in this thread that you think science would report alien life to the world if such a report existed, or am I making a logical leap your posts do not make?
So what would you require, ET walking/slithering/hovering up to you and displaying his/her/its intergalactic passport?
Seriously, I'm curious what you would consider "credible evidence".
More than we have now, that is for sure. No amount anomaly hunting is going to be valid evidence.
Obviously, in the best case, the craft or means for traveling the mind-boggling vast distances sitting in front of me with the collective agreement of the best scientific mind that this "thang just ain't from here." That would do it. If it included some biological life-form that operated it and hopefully can communicate in some even rudimentary manner, that would be icing on the cake.
How far down from that level of proof I might allow certainly doesn't get down to contrails, weird skulls and bad drawing on cave walls nor does bronze-age sheep herder's description of stuff they don't understand.
Since traveling those distances requires extraordinary means bordering on violating even the most basic laws of physics, it's has to be dang good evidence.
I suppose it depends on the science being studied, does it not? It is naive to think Patrick's example doesn't happen often - especially when funded by people other than the scientists themselves. If you study how wind energy works and somehow found a smoking gun against wind energy, but your grant was funded for the next five years by a wind energy company, you'd be out of a job if you reported it.
Can I infer from your replies in this thread that you think science would report alien life to the world if such a report existed, or am I making a logical leap your posts do not make?
I see it in the same light as the mythical cure for cancer. One can argue that the cure is kept from everyone so they can continue to sell multiple drugs that don't quite cure it but keep the money rolling in vs. understanding the extraordinary amount of money that could be made from actually curing it. Add to that the marketing power of being able to say "We Cured Cancer. What's Next?"
Proof that aliens exist could not be contained.
I am not saying they don't, only that we don't have any credible evidence. We don't. We have anomalies that are passed off as proof.
And as much as you want it to be true, I want it to be true even more. You can put me at the top of the list of people that want it to be true. But I am not going to grasp at straws to satisfy my desire.
[This message has been edited by TK (edited 05-26-2011).]
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07:28 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 36251 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
How far down from that level of proof I might allow certainly doesn't get down to... weird skulls
I myself have still reserved judgement, but did you bother to read any of This page to see what evidence was being presented. There's more to this story than simply a misshapen skull.
I suppose it depends on the science being studied, does it not? It is naive to think Patrick's example doesn't happen often - especially when funded by people other than the scientists themselves. If you study how wind energy works and somehow found a smoking gun against wind energy, but your grant was funded for the next five years by a wind energy company, you'd be out of a job if you reported it.
Can I infer from your replies in this thread that you think science would report alien life to the world if such a report existed, or am I making a logical leap your posts do not make?
I agree, there is research being done to support a predetermined belief and it does happen a lot. Far too much.