philosophy class is really cool

We all are. We just don't know it.

perhaps

Didn't watch the movie, too busy being shackled to the wall or something...

quote Originally posted by FieroRumor: Didn't watch the movie, too busy being shackled to the wall or something...

heh. your not alone

quote Originally posted by ghost187x: heh. your not alone

I AM HERE WITH YOU

Wish more people understood the basic concepts described in that video (especially the last few lines). And felt the desire to get the hell out of that cave...
Augment their personal level of awareness, perception, reduce ignorance and promote a greater understanding of reality...or as much as we can grasp it...

"Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing." — Macbeth (Act 5, Scene 5)

quote Originally posted by FieroRumor: Wish more people understood the basic concepts described in that video (especially the last few lines). And felt the desire to get the hell out of that cave... Augment their personal level of awareness, perception, reduce ignorance and promote a greater understanding of reality...or as much as we can grasp it... )

We need knowledge to do so. A lot of people base their beliefs on opinions, and not on facts (knowledge). And that is a factual statement.

The guys stuck underground are progressives and the liberated guy becomes a neo-conservative when he is enlightened. He also tries to enlighten the progressives to no avail.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: The guys stuck underground are progressives and the liberated guy becomes a neo-conservative when he is enlightened. He also tries to enlighten the progressives to no avail.

Too subjective, also politics...

Showed this to my son... Asked him to not ask any questions till it was done.

His first question..."Daddy, are the people in the cave ignorant?"

From there, the questions kept comin'...

It ended with him asking if the person who was 'free" really saw reality the way it was. I explained to him about subjective vs objective, and related the story in this video with a fish one...

A bunch of fish are in an underwater cave, and the details are similiar.(used a waterproof flashlight instead of fire, naturally). the difference was that even through that one fish was able to leave the cave, he was a weak swimmer, and had no idea that there was anything above the surface of the water... no matter what we do, we still cannot comprehend 'ultimate' reality, but the more we push ourselves, the more levels of realities we can comprehand.

If we don't do everything we can to lift our children above ourselves, what is the point? 'good' parents try to raise their kids the best they can. they make mistakes. As parents, we try to avoid making those mistakes our parents made, and try not to make other 'new' ones...

We want our kids to be "less broken" then ourselves.

Don't want to raise them to be a douchbag...

Wonder how many people out there understand Plato's cave, or even have ever heard about it. I hear people on the train blathering about Snookie, and I think "what a waste..." I see a guy backing up data while typing about Plato's cave, and I think..."what a waste". Man, things are so screwed up, we have people believein' in invisible friends and are so desperate for love/feeling bliss that they need to look at pics and videos of other people having pleasure...people not allowed to consume chemicals to make them feel good, yet can legally buy medication which does the same tyhing with dangerous side effects...

Still in the cave, or out of the cave taking meds to make the world more 'cave-like'.

Plenty of people who aren't , but far, far too many people who are.


So I walked out of the cave, and marveled at the spendor that was the world. But eventually, I grew tired with it all... I climbed up to the highest peak, and then I asked,
Is that all there is?

Heh, I remember walkin' out of the theater after watching "Ther Matrix" thinkin' how Neo 'waking up' was so similiar to Plato's cave... and how Cypher was beggin' to be put back in...

Time to make the donuts.

[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 05-23-2011).]

Will the people who get out, tell the others or forget them I wonder?

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Will the people who get out, tell the others or forget them I wonder?

Depends on the person, I guess...

Sometimes, you try to tell someone somethin', but they don't want to hear it, accept it, whatever...(That goes for any faith, any concept, etc..heck from life choices to engine swaps...)

People don't often like to have their nice, stable world upheaved. even if it's supposedly "good for them"...myself included...

If we switch over to the Eastern stuff for a minute, In Buddhism(Cliffnotes version), there are two main paths:

Hinayana - the path where an individual tries to get out of the cave....

Mahayana- . These folks step out of the cave, and devote their lives tying to get everyone else out of the cave (reduce their suffering)

Right now, I'm sorta 'stuck'. I'm out of a few of the 'caves', but I know I'm not even close to seeing "ultimate reality" (or the closest humans can even comprehend reality), it's difficult/risky for me to go any further, and it's frustrating (a form of suffering)

It's like an onion, in reverse. Layers of reality, you peel one away, there's another. (only larger, more vast...) It's easy to lose yourself. Especially if there aren't a lot of people around you to keep you 'grounded'...

Then again, there IS a certain mental freedom which one experiences when they embrace the concept of Detachment (non-attachment)
I just don't like NOT being involved w/ others, even if suffering comes along with it...you need to belong SOMEHWERE...

Heh...

There's a reason why most Shamen are nuts.
[Jeff Bridges]They've gone places, man!!!![/Jeff Bridges]
I been hanging around this town on a corner. I been bummin' around this old town for way too long...

[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 05-23-2011).]

you noticed from the video that chained subject who got out of the cave went back in and was disheartened. He tried to talk the chained members into leaving, but they simply laughed at him. If they could, they would have killed him. Why is that so? Tell the religious folks there is no god it is like that "unchained" person is crazy. Nietzche said those type of people live by slave morality. They think their standards are right compared to what the higher civilization does.

as parents and/or future parents, it is best to let your children gain knowledge, not opinions. I am more convinced I should get my future kids into a private school. I should answer their questions with the right answers, not beliefs. If I do not know the answer, I should research it and give my child the correct answer. It would only be right to do so. I should have good ethics as well. I should not teach them to lie or steal. If I told them to answer the phone and tell the bill collector that I am not home, that is lying; and therefore, unethical. If I take food stamps knowing I have millions of dollars from the lottery, that would be unethical.

I am not having kids anytime soon

[This message has been edited by ghost187x (edited 05-23-2011).]

quote Originally posted by ghost187x: you noticed from the video that chained subject who got out of the cave went back in and was disheartened. He tried to talk the chained members into leaving, but they simply laughed at him. If they could, they would have killed him. Why is that so? Tell the religious folks there is no god it is like that "unchained" person is crazy. Nietzche said those type of people live by slave morality. They think their standards are right compared to what the higher civilization does.

Clearly each sees it their own way. Each probably thinks they are unchained. When I see it, I seem to see the mirror of what you see. We each have our own choice.


"Although the most acute judges of the witches and even the witches themselves, were convinced of the guilt of witchery, the guilt nevertheless was non-existent. It is thus with all guilt. "
"Blessed are the forgetful: for they get the better even of their blunders."
-Friedrich Nietzsche


Sometimes I think Nietzsche was constantly trying to justify why he should not feel guilt. His philosophy is concerning, too many signs of disturbance for me.

The Matrix....

Personal Perception=if you beleive it is..... then it is to you..... until proven not to be..... to me.