Allow me to add another twist to this.

I torrent... I do not pirate...

Explanation:

You are legally allowed to make a copy of Music, Movies, Games, Programs etc. that you legally own. For instance; Buying a CD and making a CD-R copy of it to use so that the original stays unused and unharmed. Or even ripping said purchased CD to your MP3 player. These are legal activities.
Being that I have a 50+ mb internet connection I find that I can download a torrent of a CD, DVD, Game or Program disc much faster and more conveniently than I can rip it.
I will also, on the rare occasion that I own a CD, DVD, Game or Program that I cannot find a torrent for, upload it for others to D/L under the assumption that they also own the original legally and would like to have a copy.
If people are taking them without legally owning a license/copy of then they will have to answer to the authorities if they get caught. It is NOT my job to police people!

~Tyler

I wonder how a judge would view that in a court of law.

Bottom line, that is the only question that matters, legally.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 05-10-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Mark everything political. As soon as one person posts anything political, certain whiners cry about the thread not being marked political. It also has the added benefit of being invisible to those same whiners since they have politics turned off.

Your powers of prognostication are astounding!

Edit to add: One of the biggest issues in the creative industry now is the fact that the content and media have become disconnected. Used to be the only way to read a book was to have one in your hand, and copying costs were a hurdle that stopped the average Joe from "stealing" someone's work. Movies used to be only available on film, recordings only on records. Though the physical media changed over time in ways that allowed easier copying (records to tape, film to VHS, etc.) it was the advent of the cheap and easily ability to digitize content into a form with virtually zero copying and distribution costs that's really changed the way the game is played.

Like Flint at Baen's site, I don't think that the punitive model will have any long-term success, it's like playing whack-a-mole on an infinitely-sized playing field. Long term, I think that getting people to want to buy content will be more profitable and sustainable than jailing those that don't, and I think the positive model will yield better quality products. Remember, uncompetitive dreck is easier to sell when you have a captive audience.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 05-10-2011).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: One of the biggest issues in the creative industry now is the fact that the content and media have become disconnected.

Exactly! Before digital media, and thus error-free digital copying, became possible, the copyright license was irrevocably bound to the media. When you sold a book, the single-use copyright license went with it. Even then you couldn't make copies of the book and sell them, or even give them away, because the sole copyright license remained bound to the original book. You could, however, copy and distribute small excerpts from the book for certain specified "Fair Use" purposes, but never the entire thing.

Even with the advent of xerographic copying, audio tape recorders, and video tape recorders (all of which most content publishers hated and fought) the issue of piracy was less problematic for copyright holders. Those were all analog technologies, high-quality equipment was still relatively expensive and not widely available, and copies were always perceptibly poorer in quality than the original. (Even theoretically "perfect" analog reproduction incurs about a 4.5 dB loss in signal-to-noise ratio per generation of copy.) Anything beyond a fifth or sixth generation copy was generally so degraded as to be unusable.

Digital is different. Done properly, each digital copy is indistinguishable from the original. It is easy for anyone with a small computer to produce thousands of media copies identical to the original, but the copyright license still only applies to the original copy. Even worse in the eyes of digital publishers, when I copy a DVD movie that I own I always delete the "FBI Warning" and all the annoying advertisements. Those are the main problems that the Digital Millenium Copyright Act of 1998 was intended to address, but at the urging (i.e. lobbying) of the recodring industry the Act went way too far IMHO. There is no blanket "Fair Use" exemption, for example. The DMCA even makes it a federal crime for you to make backup copies of copyrighted digital media that you have lawfully purchased. (See RealNetworks, Inc. v. DVD Copy Control Association, Inc.) As a result, hardly a day goes by that I do not commit a technical violation of the DMCA involving media that I "own."

quote Originally posted by GT-X: You are legally allowed to make a copy of Music, Movies, Games, Programs etc. that you legally own. For instance; Buying a CD and making a CD-R copy of it to use so that the original stays unused and unharmed. Or even ripping said purchased CD to your MP3 player. These are legal activities.

Not under the DMCA, they're not. Don't take my word for it; consult an attorney.

quote Being that I have a 50+ mb internet connection I find that I can download a torrent of a CD, DVD, Game or Program disc much faster and more conveniently than I can rip it.

That would have been illegal before or after the DMCA ... even if you own a legal copy of the CD ,DVD, etc. in question. The copy you're downloading is not the copy that is licensed to you. Don't take my word for it; consult an attorney.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 05-10-2011).]

The world is also much smaller now. The U.S. is also having problems in getting other countries to enforce its copyright laws. Seems all members don't have the same view of intellectual property rights or the need for enforcement. Applying pressure through the World Trade Organization isn't working very well in the member nations and not at all in ones that don't belong.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: I wonder how a judge would view that in a court of law. Bottom line, that is the only question that matters, legally.

To some maybe, it amazes me that many people who are often calling for less Government and more freedom are the first to want more restrictive laws to control everyone.

Not saying that you are or people are wrong, just something that I have noticed.

quote Originally posted by newf: To some maybe, it amazes me that many people who are often calling for less Government and more freedom are the first to want more restrictive laws to control everyone. Not saying that you are or people are wrong, just something that I have noticed.

Normally that would be 'control everyone but me'. People are hypocrites in general.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Not under the DMCA, they're not. Don't take my word for it; consult an attorney.

Interesting. So, unless you're willing to break the law (or purchase D/L songs from i-Tunes, NO THANK YOU), an MP3 player is a worthless hunk of silicon?...

I'm not arguing with you. I have no reason to disbelieve what you say. It's just very interesting.

When making back-up copies of media you own is against the law, Only outlaws will make back-up copies of media they own.

Sincerely yours,
~An Outlaw

quote Originally posted by GT-X: Interesting. So, unless you're willing to break the law (or purchase D/L songs from i-Tunes, NO THANK YOU), an MP3 player is a worthless hunk of silicon?... I'm not arguing with you. I have no reason to disbelieve what you say. It's just very interesting. When making back-up copies of media you own is against the law, Only outlaws will make back-up copies of media they own. Sincerely yours, ~An Outlaw

DMCA supports ripping your own music off your own CDs/tapes/LPs, as long as there is no encryption involved. ( if there is, then it gets a bit fuzzy )

quote Originally posted by Nurb432: I have to disagree with you on this one, since we are still allowed to make copes of our own media, for now.. if you download the same exact item in the same exact format its legal. ( like you cant own the LP and download a CD version.. )

I talked to a couple author friends. and they tell me that if you do this for their works, whether you own the books or not, you can expect to be served. The law is 100% on their side, and they aggressively pursue copyright infringers.

Is it legal?
Is it right ? Would you want someone to do that with your works ?

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Is it legal? Is it right ? Would you want someone to do that with your works ?

if i was still making music, i wouldn't have a problem with it being shared. These days any code or data i create is PD, due to my job so its all 'shareable', and i don't have any issues with it. I got paid, and continue to get paid for providing support.