Yes, somewhat. The stealth I heard about was super efficient mufflers. I also heard that the element of surprise was helped, because in that the area had Pakistani military training and bases, helicopters were sort of an every day sound.
The helos couldn't have been *too* quiet. It bothered the "twitter guy" who was giving reports of something happening in the area, and the sound of helos above:
I wasn't talking about the picture, or whether Bin Laden is dead, or if it happened a couple of days ago. Read what I wrote again. It is about this website, and whether it is really a "White House Insider" giving real information:
Admit it. You don't believe that Bin Laden is dead and you believe President Obama's birth certificate. You want to see everything "personally," because you're special. You want to see the video of Bin Laden burial at sea-regardless if pictures or video would perhaps put OUR troops in harms way. You're a "doubting Thomas" and you like spiking the football.
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10:53 AM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
WASHINGTON — Images of the wreckage of the helicopter left behind at Osama bin Laden's compound by U.S. forces have prompted speculation that the chopper is a secret, highly-modified version of the military's iconic Black Hawk.
The stricken aircraft, which commandos blew up at the scene, appears to be a long-rumored stealth helicopter, NBC News reported; a Black Hawk modified to reduce rotor noise and make it more difficult to detect by radar.
Pentagon officials have declined to comment.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 05-05-2011).]
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11:03 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27075 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Admit it. You don't believe that Bin Laden is dead and you believe President Obama's birth certificate. You want to see everything "personally," because you're special. You want to see the video of Bin Laden burial at sea-regardless if pictures or video would perhaps put OUR troops in harms way. You're a "doubting Thomas" and you like spiking the football.
You completely missed the point. I'm not surprised. Would you have believed Bin Laden was dead if Bush said he wouldn't show you any pictures, and told you the body was dumped in the ocean the next day? You know GODDAMN WELL you wouldn't. But you won't admit that, and just keep deflecting the discussion. Typical tactic when you don't have a solid argument and the facts don't support your point. Same goes for adding insults. No facts, just bullshit.
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11:10 AM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
You completely missed the point. I'm not surprised. Would you have believed Bin Laden was dead if Bush said he wouldn't show you any pictures, and told you the body was dumped in the ocean the next day? You know GODDAMN WELL you wouldn't. But you won't admit that, and just keep deflecting the discussion. Typical tactic when you don't have a solid argument and the facts don't support your point. Same goes for adding insults. No facts, just bullshit.
Dude, "Quit spiking the football." Nobody is talking about former President Bush and the "what if" factor. The only fact here is YOU want to see the pictures of Bin Laden burial at sea even though this would but OUR troops in harms way. YOU want to see President Obama's birth certificate. You're a doubting Thomas.
Most importantly, YOU are special, YOU are special, YOU are special....
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11:34 AM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
Some dogs will bite whether you poke them with a stick or not. Some hate is so deep there can be no hope. We will never win over the extremist muslims. Best just get it over with.
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12:03 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
Some dogs will bite whether you poke them with a stick or not. Some hate is so deep there can be no hope. We will never win over the extremist muslims. Best just get it over with.
Yup. Lets pretend that the Jews of World War II are the Muslum exstreamsts of today, and we are Nazi Germany. The Jewish are still here, despite the all-encompassing effort to exterminatte them in an attempt to erase that religion.
The American Indian is still here despite being very near to anihilation at one point.
Pretty hard to get rid of someone. See 'Mother-in-law'...
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12:16 PM
PFF
System Bot
Scottzilla79 Member
Posts: 2573 From: Chicago, IL Registered: Oct 2009
Boondawg, I really don't like that analogy, we are not trying to wipe muslims off the face of the earth. The Native American part, is a little more icky though. I hate Andrew Jackson.
Someone at the UN is calling for a full investigation, may have violated his civil rights. Plus he was going to be confirmed head of the civil rights division of the UN. jk Wonder if this was a republican pres if the left would be screaming about us not getting the UN's approval. Only one OBL so we will never know.
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06:09 PM
Scottzilla79 Member
Posts: 2573 From: Chicago, IL Registered: Oct 2009
Boondawg, I know. I don't think we as a nation hate Muslims so much we want to wipe them off the face of the Earth. I know we're not perfect, but we're not whatever that is either.
Also agree with flattening the compound. Especially leaving that bad ass heli behind. Looks like they didn't blowed it up good enough.
[This message has been edited by Scottzilla79 (edited 05-05-2011).]
I assume that the Democrats among us simply *trust* Obama that Bin Laden was just killed? No photos released, body dumped in the ocean immediately...how many of you would have trusted Bush, if that was the story given?
I know when politicians are lying-their lips are moving. Thus, the flavor of politician is irrelevant to me. I wouldn't trust either GW or Obama if they wanted to lie about Bin Ladin's death. OTOH, there should be plenty of witnesses, and thus there may no need of photos to inspire future Jihadists. I'm OK with or without photos. So far al Qaeda has not denied the killing nor have they produced any evidence otherwise. Yeh, I wrote "are you sure he'd dead?" Not that I doubt it, but I don't easily discount the possibility he may still be alive and in custody.
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07:33 PM
carnut122 Member
Posts: 9122 From: Waleska, GA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
They should have cleared the compound, and leveled it.
I agree but let's see how long it takes the Pakistanis to reach that conclusion. After all, the hard work's been done already and one would think they've got a bit of "saving face" to do.
I'm not holding my breath.
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08:06 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27075 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
What is it with you and this "spiking the football crap"? I'm not spiking any damn football. And you stole that line from Obama. He called. He wants it back.
quote
Nobody is talking about former President Bush and the "what if" factor. The only fact here is YOU want to see the pictures of Bin Laden burial at sea even though this would but OUR troops in harms way. YOU want to see President Obama's birth certificate. You're a doubting Thomas.
*I* am talking about Bush because I'm CHALLENGING YOU. If Bush would have said he got Bin Laden, showed no pictures and dumped the body in the ocean, people like YOU would be "doubting Thomases". But it's Obama, so you just believe it. That's foolish. You SHOULD doubt the President and politicians, including those in your own party, but you don't. Anything Obama does or doesn't do, you give him a pass. Foolish!
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08:32 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27075 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Originally posted by madcurl: Fierobear: The doubtingbear of the forum
You say that like it's a bad thing. Skepticism is good. It is health. Especially when we're talking about politicians. They aren't to be trusted, regardless of party.
quote
So let me get this correct. Arabs are already rioting in the streets and YOU want pictures.
It's not just me. There's a LOT of doubt going around. And a lot of conflicting stories about what happened.
quote
Wow dude, you really like spiking the football-don't you.
Curl, you're the only one who keeps messing with the football. Put down the damn football before you hurt yourself.
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08:41 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27075 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Wonder if this was a republican pres if the left would be screaming about us not getting the UN's approval.
You know damn well if it was Bush, with all the conflicting accounts and lack of proof, the left would be screaming bloody murder that it's all fake to help his poll numbers. When Obama does it, oh, they believe it. Inf***ingcredible.
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08:45 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27075 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
I know when politicians are lying-their lips are moving. Thus, the flavor of politician is irrelevant to me. I wouldn't trust either GW or Obama if they wanted to lie about Bin Ladin's death.
Which is a reasonable reaction.
quote
OTOH, there should be plenty of witnesses, and thus there may no need of photos to inspire future Jihadists. I'm OK with or without photos. So far al Qaeda has not denied the killing nor have they produced any evidence otherwise. Yeh, I wrote "are you sure he'd dead?" Not that I doubt it, but I don't easily discount the possibility he may still be alive and in custody.
I think what Obama should have done, after deciding not to release the photos, would be to call a private conference with leaders from both parties, selected members of the press from all the major networks and print media, and shown them the evidence. That would help remove doubt.
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08:48 PM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
John, its impossible to prove to you things that actually happened, so how would one go about disproving would they would have done if... That is impossible to do, just by definition. It's just not logical.
I disagree with the president on not releasing the pictures. You would think that after all the US military has sacrificed in the hunt for bin Ladin, they deserve a good look. However, the Birther Movement has shown that releasing the pictures wouldn't satisfy the loudest doubters.
I believe that we will see the pictures leaked through WikiLeaks sometime October of 2012.
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09:00 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27075 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
John, its impossible to prove to you things that actually happened, so how would one go about disproving would they would have done if... That is impossible to do, just by definition. It's just not logical.
It's a philosophical challenge to the Bush-haters.
quote
I disagree with the president on not releasing the pictures. You would think that after all the US military has sacrificed in the hunt for bin Ladin, they deserve a good look. However, the Birther Movement has shown that releasing the pictures wouldn't satisfy the loudest doubters.
True, but you'll always have those people, same kind that doubt the moon landing. Not much you can do about it.
quote
I believe that we will see the pictures leaked through WikiLeaks sometime October of 2012.
Further proof that no matter how much evidence is provided there are always some that it will never be good enough for. People love a good conspiracy. What difference will a pic of OBL's bullett riddled body be for those who will claim photoshop or whatever else they might come up with.
Personally I believe the eyewitness accounts from the Military and Gov't as well as the fact that OBL's daughter and wife are in agreement plus there's the physical evidence. Is there a possibility that it's all some kind of big conspiracy? I guess so but to what end and is it really likely given the facts? ( Invest in Alcoa )
Boondawg, I really don't like that analogy, we are not trying to wipe muslims off the face of the earth. The Native American part, is a little more icky though. I hate Andrew Jackson.
You know it's funny how people keep missing something here. Let's say Tom and Matt are mortal enemies. As a bystander I (Rick) am not involved. One day I decide to give Matt an Uzi, when all Tom has is a spear. You think Tom would be pissed at me?
We helped turn Israel into a nuclear power, and basically enabled them to wipe their enemies (mostly Muslim) off the planet. By the same token, we try to buddy up to Islam to get their only really valuable resource (oil). I wonder why Islam would have an issue with us. Immediately following the 9/11 bombings (within a couple of hours of the attack) Senator Daschle went on record and said we needed to re-evaluate our relationship with Israel. A day later, NO ONE, not even he said anything else about it.
I would say while we are buddying up to their sworn enemies, we will never get through to "Radical Islam". I'm not saying this justifies their actions, but can you really blame them for not seeing us in the most positive light?
As far as the complainers, I remember a story from when I was a kid....I don't remember it completely so please forgive if I don't convey it perfectly.
A man and his boy were traveling with their mule. As they started out, the man rode the mule. They came across bystanders who criticized the man for making the younger boy walk, so they changed positions. As they traveled on, they came across more bystanders who criticized the boy for making his older father walk, so they both rode the mule. They traveled on and the next group of bystanders criticized them both for over-burdening the poor mule.
Bottom line is there is no shortage of criticism in this world, no matter which decision you make. I see a lot of bystanders in this thread. One thing is a fact unless someone has evidence otherwise. NONE of us has any clue what is right and who did what with regards to this situation. People complaining about Obama's role and decisions can either post the pictures that they have in their possession of OBL's death and show where they were involved, or they can just admit that they don't know squat either. Anything else just makes you look like an ass because the only thing we ALL have in common is we're talking out of our ignorance here.
[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 05-05-2011).]
Never mind that OBL was reportedly a Mujahideen fighter in Afghanistan against the Russians and was reportedly supported by the Reagan Administration and the CIA. But hey giving arms to people in the Middle East has worked out famously over the years for foreign policy.
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 05-05-2011).]
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10:40 PM
Scottzilla79 Member
Posts: 2573 From: Chicago, IL Registered: Oct 2009
You know it's funny how people keep missing something here. Let's say Tom and Matt are mortal enemies. As a bystander I (Rick) am not involved. One day I decide to give Matt an Uzi, when all Tom has is a spear. You think Tom would be pissed at me?
We helped turn Israel into a nuclear power, and basically enabled them to wipe their enemies (mostly Muslim) off the planet. By the same token, we try to buddy up to Islam to get their only really valuable resource (oil). I wonder why Islam would have an issue with us. Immediately following the 9/11 bombings (within a couple of hours of the attack) Senator Daschle went on record and said we needed to re-evaluate our relationship with Israel. A day later, NO ONE, not even he said anything else about it.
I would say while we are buddying up to their sworn enemies, we will never get through to "Radical Islam". I'm not saying this justifies their actions, but can you really blame them for not seeing us in the most positive light?
As far as the complainers, I remember a story from when I was a kid....I don't remember it completely so please forgive if I don't convey it perfectly.
A man and his boy were traveling with their mule. As they started out, the man rode the mule. They came across bystanders who criticized the man for making the younger boy walk, so they changed positions. As they traveled on, they came across more bystanders who criticized the boy for making his older father walk, so they both rode the mule. They traveled on and the next group of bystanders criticized them both for over-burdening the poor mule.
Bottom line is there is no shortage of criticism in this world, no matter which decision you make. I see a lot of bystanders in this thread. One thing is a fact unless someone has evidence otherwise. NONE of us has any clue what is right and who did what with regards to this situation. People complaining about Obama's role and decisions can either post the pictures that they have in their possession of OBL's death and show where they were involved, or they can just admit that they don't know squat either. Anything else just makes you look like an ass because the only thing we ALL have in common is we're talking out of our ignorance here.
Oh man you're so right. OK everyone it was a good run but democracy is over. We don't know anything let's leave everything to our dear leaders and not question them anymore. Criticism can be petty, it can be constructive, and it can be crucial. I could answer your fable9which was good btw) with the emperor's new clothes. No one criticized him.
As far as Daschle is concerned, he and no one else said anything about it again because it was idiotic and cowardly. Whether or not you think they should be our ally, it's pretty dishonorable to ditch them soon as it got uncomfortable for us. I have never heard Israel officially declare their goal is to wipe Muslims off the face of the earth. The reverse can not be said of all of their neighbors.
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10:59 PM
Scottzilla79 Member
Posts: 2573 From: Chicago, IL Registered: Oct 2009
Never mind that OBL was reportedly a Mujahideen fighter in Afghanistan against the Russians and was reportedly supported by the Reagan Administration and the CIA. But hey giving arms to people in the Middle East has worked out famously over the years for foreign policy.
I think that it's more than reportedly and generally accepted as fact. I don't see why some lunatic's ingratitude should outweigh our helping freedom fighters. I don't think every Mujahedin from Afghanistan turned into a terrorist mastermind either.