An Open, unsecure, WiFi router can get you arrested for neighbors illegal activities... From Daily Tech
While you may get off... Getting arrested with cost you in time, money, etc and business can fire you even tho they arrested you in error. Can rehire but that take more time etc...
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
OK, so I have to lock down my router to protect myself from bad police work?
Why are most motels not blocked? Fast food places?
How do they handle that?
Sounds a lot like scare tactics to me. Give me a realistic reason why I shouldn't be able to leave my router open.
And what happens if you have it protected and they hack it, it's getting easier and easier to do now. What happens then? Do we then get in trouble for not having it "secure enough"? Give me a break.
OK, so I have to lock down my router to protect myself from bad police work?
Why are most motels not blocked? Fast food places?
How do they handle that?
Sounds a lot like scare tactics to me. Give me a realistic reason why I shouldn't be able to leave my router open.
And what happens if you have it protected and they hack it, it's getting easier and easier to do now. What happens then? Do we then get in trouble for not having it "secure enough"? Give me a break.
Brad
May be a scare tactic but it is real. If your home account shows bad things happening, you will get blamed out of the box. RIAA doesn't check before they send out notices. Then its on you to prove otherwise.
Hotels, cafes, and other 'public' access points: since they by nature operate under a shared environment i doubt they would be raided outright, but would be watched if the cops saw it happening often enough to predict and stake out. ( tho the last hotel i stayed in i had to put some code in, that related to my room number )
I locked mine down, but due to the comcast cap.
good example would be if your car was stolen and used in a crime, then brought back to your house. ( or you just didn't notice yet so it wasn't reported ). Who do you think they would come talk to first? Its the only 'evidence' they have to work with.
[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 05-01-2011).]
OK, so I have to lock down my router to protect myself from bad police work?
Yes. Innocent until proven guilty is a quaint little notion that went out of fashion back in the 20th century. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear, and you better be able to provide concrete proof you have nothing to hide - whether you're aware of it or not.
Even if you are secure, its worse as you *think* you are safe.. when you really are not. ( and a lot of boils down to bad police work )
Yes, it can be hacked...
Using WPA2 w/ AES and MAC filter will help...
quote
Originally posted by twofatguys: How do they handle that?
Sounds a lot like scare tactics to me. Give me a realistic reason why I shouldn't be able to leave my router open.
And what happens if you have it protected and they hack it, it's getting easier and easier to do now. What happens then? Do we then get in trouble for not having it "secure enough"? Give me a break.
Think low hanging fruit... Which fruit is likely to get pick first... One on low limp or One needs a ladder...
Your router need hacking to get around WPA and WAP2 w/ AES etc. (WEP is dead. Anyone using WEP should treat router as open.)b (Fruit need a ladder) Another router is open. No security, MAC filters, etc. (Fruit on low limp, ready to fall off.)
Which one is likely to get cop and ICE breaking down front door because some moron doing something illegal? Most people doesn't have time or skill to hack routers, Even for lowly consumer model. Just want p*rn fix, etc....
And notice... ICE was involved is some case in link above... Mean searches can be/are "Border Search." ICE can search thing Without a Warrant. ICE will say they had download from outside US so ICE rules and not Cops, FBI, etc rules.
How fast food etc avoid cops? 1. Many places have filters in place. You don't have all internet. Blocks many protocol etc... 2. Doing anything illegal at shop/hotel? Anyone think it isn't watch regularly? Or everything is logged? They can match log and cameras to catch users. Cameras are so cheap now...
Even if business does nothing... At basic level, Cops treat Business differently then individual router owners.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
1. Many places have filters in place. You don't have all internet. Blocks many protocol etc... 2. Doing anything illegal at shop/hotel? Anyone think it isn't watch regularly? Or everything is logged? They can match log and cameras to catch users. Cameras are so cheap now...
As things move more towards end to end encryption and safe-house vpn/proxy, 'watching' will become less of an issue. They can watch all they want then.
Cameras will help, but what if you carry your device in your pocket? You can store a hell of a lot on a ipod if that is what you are doing.. ( phones are too easily tracked, but could do the same thing ) Now, which one of the patrons is the culprit? Not saying you cant be caught by a determined and savvy cop given time, but it will raise the bar and weed out the amateurs.
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05:44 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 41211 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
So... How secure is *just* a MAC filter? Yes, I know they can be spoofed. How likely is it that a suburban "war driver" is going to go to the trouble, with a selection of totally unsecured routers around, as well?
So... How secure is *just* a MAC filter? Yes, I know they can be spoofed. How likely is it that a suburban "war driver" is going to go to the trouble, with a selection of totally unsecured routers around, as well?
That is the key.. be harder then the guy next door. That is all you can really do. Turning it off when you aren't at home helps too. As would keeping the signal from getting outside your house.
Around my parts, everyone is encrypted.
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06:17 PM
PFF
System Bot
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
That is the key.. be harder then the guy next door. .
Yup. You and I are being chased by a bear. I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you.
------------------ Sometimes I find myself slipping into advanced delusionary schizophrenia with involuntary narcissistic rage. And I must say, it's a real pleasure.
So... How secure is *just* a MAC filter? Yes, I know they can be spoofed. How likely is it that a suburban "war driver" is going to go to the trouble, with a selection of totally unsecured routers around, as well?
Using a MAC filter w/o WPA/WPA2 encryption is a wast of time. (WEP only encrypts payload not headers and MAC.)
How easy to spoof? MAC address one viable items in driver software. Very easy. Just copy/past MAC... Most Wardrivers aren't the problem anyway. The neighbor next door is and neighbor has time to wait and doesn't need any skills to spoof a MAC. Any monitoring software will give you unencrypted MAC.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
How fast food etc avoid cops? 1. Many places have filters in place. You don't have all internet. Blocks many protocol etc... 2. Doing anything illegal at shop/hotel? Anyone think it isn't watch regularly? Or everything is logged? They can match log and cameras to catch users. Cameras are so cheap now...
Even if business does nothing... At basic level, Cops treat Business differently then individual router owners.
Many hotels have no individual sign in. So while they could if they have good wireless logging be able to come up with the reported MAC address of your wireless device, would still have no idea of who the actual owner said device. They have no cameras in my hotel room so they can't tell by that. Heck, I might even been the neighbor of the hotel or parked across the road.
I've always wondered why some teen aged 'punk' geeks don't go around and turn off and password wireless routers left at default. Maybe just my warped sense of things but a person with a decent wireless device could easily reek havoc on all kinds of routers in no time. Maybe the cops should tell the press that kids are doing it to scare the owners into changing their passwords.
You could just go around and change the SSID to something funny/nasty and password it so the people could see what you did, but couldn't reverse it. Change everyones SSID to something like 'Small Penis"
The wireless adapter I use when I want to be scamming free wireless internet. High power. Could be used with a parabolic antenna if desired.
Wow... THAT would suck. I would be REALLY pissed if I got knocked down and had my door bashed in because my neighbor was looking at illegal **** on my minute...
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09:19 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Wow... THAT would suck. I would be REALLY pissed if I got knocked down and had my door bashed in because my neighbor was looking at illegal **** on my minute...
Not only that, but what if you're a law abiding gun owner? Someone kicks in my door and rushes at me screaming, I could very well reach for my weapon, at which point they would kill me. There would be no investigation to see if the police did anything wrong. My reaching for a weapon would be proof enough - I was trying to kill a cop, so they were justified. There are cases where this has happened during drug raids and they got the wrong house - but the armed homeowner didn't know why someone would kick in his door at 3AM and lost his life because of an address screw up.
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09:26 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25220 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Not only that, but what if you're a law abiding gun owner? Someone kicks in my door and rushes at me screaming, I could very well reach for my weapon, at which point they would kill me. There would be no investigation to see if the police did anything wrong. My reaching for a weapon would be proof enough - I was trying to kill a cop, so they were justified. There are cases where this has happened during drug raids and they got the wrong house - but the armed homeowner didn't know why someone would kick in his door at 3AM and lost his life because of an address screw up.
That's a very interesting point... in those examples, how did the cases go? What happened to the police departments, etc? Was there any reprimand or anything?
Many hotels have no individual sign in. So while they could if they have good wireless logging be able to come up with the reported MAC address of your wireless device, would still have no idea of who the actual owner said device. They have no cameras in my hotel room so they can't tell by that. Heck, I might even been the neighbor of the hotel or parked across the road.
I've always wondered why some teen aged 'punk' geeks don't go around and turn off and password wireless routers left at default. Maybe just my warped sense of things but a person with a decent wireless device could easily reek havoc on all kinds of routers in no time. Maybe the cops should tell the press that kids are doing it to scare the owners into changing their passwords.
Hotel has cameras lobbies, hallways, exterior on building, driveway/parking.... Most hotel need WiFi access port covering a block of rooms. IDing a few rooms... not whole hotel. Hop count is 2-3 before you get outside. Wired network? Even easier... Most switch that hotels use can log traffic w/o a login ID. Many business switches are very smart... Can log connections and much Much more.
Rename etc is funny... 30-30-30 or other reset and reconfig router. Problem solved. Many the very dumb user need to call Geek Squad etc but those people just figure router has a problem and doesn't get name change. Likely doesn't even see router reconfig, just reset and forget it.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
So I will put a splash screen up before my neighbors use my internet, release me from liability etc.
I still say that millions of open wireless points in this country, and one raid does not worry me. And it's a non-issue, and more a way for internet companies to scare people into locking their connection down, and then all the free riders will have to pay. They are losing money left and right, why not scare a few people into helping them make a few bucks.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: That's a very interesting point... in those examples, how did the cases go? What happened to the police departments, etc? Was there any reprimand or anything?
While it had nothing to do with routers (or computers for that matter) a similar thing happened to an old (80-90 something) lady in Atlanta. Drug informant gave the cops the wrong addy. They kicked her door in. When she went (or they thought she went) for a gun, they killed her dead as a hammer.
There was a huge coverup, with evidence planted and the whole nine yards. Last I heard there were several cops doing prison time, and her relatives were suing the Atlanta PD to a fare-thee-well. And winning. It was all over the news about two years ago.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-01-2011).]
