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Obamacare in action in Britain----socialism in action!!!!!! by kevin
Started on: 04-04-2011 05:18 PM
Replies: 293
Last post by: cliffw on 04-18-2011 05:26 PM
cliffw
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Report this Post04-12-2011 10:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by newf:
Funny you should mention that, isn't their healthcare kind of socialized?

Short and long answer. No. It was paid for by their blood which might be lost.
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Report this Post04-12-2011 10:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwDirect Link to This Post

cliffw

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quote
Originally posted by cliffw:

Short and long answer. No. It was paid for by their blood which might be lost.


EDIT
The word funny, I find offensive.
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newf
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Report this Post04-12-2011 11:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfSend a Private Message to newfDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:


EDIT
The word funny, I find offensive.


Why? Did you not understand the "Funny you should mention that" is a phrase commonly used and not pertaining to the Military or Healthcare specifically but to the fact that you mentioned something that I was thinking about?

Or do you just find the word funny offensive?

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 04-12-2011).]

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Report this Post04-12-2011 11:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfSend a Private Message to newfDirect Link to This Post

newf

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quote
Originally posted by cliffw:

Short and long answer. No. It was paid for by their blood which might be lost.


Oh I see...that certainly explains the economics and infastructure of Military Helathcare in the U.S.

Doesn't seem like an emotional response at all.
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Scottzilla79
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Report this Post04-13-2011 12:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scottzilla79Send a Private Message to Scottzilla79Direct Link to This Post
Newf, if you are referring to the VA hospital system, that is a benefit that veterans have earned from service. It is not socialized in that none of them got it for nothing.
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Report this Post04-13-2011 12:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfSend a Private Message to newfDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Scottzilla79:

Newf, if you are referring to the VA hospital system, that is a benefit that veterans have earned from service. It is not socialized in that none of them got it for nothing.


I have seen arguements before relating the military to a socialized type of society by the way it is structured that's all. Now I hope my words here aren't misconstrued to mean socialist state or something evil.

And I don't think many people get healthcare for nothing no matter where they live or what kind of structure it is.
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Report this Post04-13-2011 12:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scottzilla79Send a Private Message to Scottzilla79Direct Link to This Post
Newf, No, I didn't think you were going there.
I've heard the argument too. Its pretty laughable if you go past step one though. I mean the military is structured the way it is for a reason, its a necessity. If you ask anyone if they would like to live that way, they would say no. The lifestyle and rigidity is just another sacrifice made by those who serve our country, or yours.
There are some who receive medical care for nothing. How many there are now, I don't know. How many will there be when it becomes free? I imagine more than it is now.
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Report this Post04-13-2011 01:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfSend a Private Message to newfDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Scottzilla79:

Newf, No, I didn't think you were going there.
I've heard the argument too. Its pretty laughable if you go past step one though. I mean the military is structured the way it is for a reason, its a necessity. If you ask anyone if they would like to live that way, they would say no. The lifestyle and rigidity is just another sacrifice made by those who serve our country, or yours.
There are some who receive medical care for nothing. How many there are now, I don't know. How many will there be when it becomes free? I imagine more than it is now.


OK Phew, it wasn't meant as a slag against the Military in any way, just wanted to be clear.

And I pretty much agree with the rest of your post.
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Report this Post04-13-2011 01:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JazzMan:

Funny thing, the thing that went wrong in my heart can happen to anyone, anytime, any age. No risky behavior required. If ht happens to you, you'll be on the hook for around $150,000 for two and a half days in CICU. They'll expect a reasonable payment plan, something that pays it off in, say, 5 years? So, 150,000 / 60 months = $2,500 a month. They'll probably not charge interest, though, and maybe even reduce it a bit since you're indigent (unable to pay). Half of all individual bankruptcies in this country are due to medical bills, so that's a likely path to follow.



It's still pretty high, but that study (number of bankruptcies) came out before the housing crash. The vast majority of bankruptcies now are due to home foreclosures, many of which are due to people letting go of their homes because they're worth less than what they paid.
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Report this Post04-13-2011 02:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JazzManClick Here to Email JazzManSend a Private Message to JazzManDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
It's still pretty high, but that study (number of bankruptcies) came out before the housing crash. The vast majority of bankruptcies now are due to home foreclosures, many of which are due to people letting go of their homes because they're worth less than what they paid.


I suspect that the rate of serious illness in this country hasn't changed significantly over the last few years so the absolute number of bankruptcies due to medical bills probably isn't much higher than before the collapse started in '07; It would be interesting to see if stress-related illnesses have risen in the last four or five years. The number of foreclosures really ramped up when gas hit $4+ a gallon the first because many people were suddenly faced with a near-mortgage-sized fuel bill with no raise to cover it. I remember several news stories and documentaries about that where families that couldn't afford housing near work bought way out in the sticks when buck or two gasoline wasn't the big hit to the finances.

Yeah, it's gotta be a tough decision to have to make when family income gets downsized form layoffs and pay cuts and can no longer afford living in the current house. If faced with selling for a loss that can't be repaid or walking away with a ruined credit history and no money, I don't know what I would do. Like being diagnosed with a terminal disease, it's not a decision that most people are able to make until that point is arrived at.
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Report this Post04-13-2011 02:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scottzilla79Send a Private Message to Scottzilla79Direct Link to This Post
So if it shouldn't be health expenses, what should be the leading cost of bankruptcies?
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Report this Post04-13-2011 03:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JazzMan:

I suspect that the rate of serious illness in this country hasn't changed significantly over the last few years so the absolute number of bankruptcies due to medical bills probably isn't much higher than before the collapse started in '07; It would be interesting to see if stress-related illnesses have risen in the last four or five years. The number of foreclosures really ramped up when gas hit $4+ a gallon the first because many people were suddenly faced with a near-mortgage-sized fuel bill with no raise to cover it. I remember several news stories and documentaries about that where families that couldn't afford housing near work bought way out in the sticks when buck or two gasoline wasn't the big hit to the finances.

Yeah, it's gotta be a tough decision to have to make when family income gets downsized form layoffs and pay cuts and can no longer afford living in the current house. If faced with selling for a loss that can't be repaid or walking away with a ruined credit history and no money, I don't know what I would do. Like being diagnosed with a terminal disease, it's not a decision that most people are able to make until that point is arrived at.




I remember that it was high, and I'd be hard pressed not to think that it hasn't gotten a little worse since. I'd figure that a lot of people who are in debt from medical bills, and probably also are facing foreclosure, might file for bankruptcy and list the reason as foreclosure.

Lots of homes were lost, but many of the foreclosures are also due to speculators as well. At least here in Miami, we had people who would buy 2 or 3 condos at a time. People like you or I who under no circumstances could afford them, but did so because they presumed they could make a quick buck...

I have a friend who lives in a nice town-house... but says that it's totally up-side-down. He said at it's peak, two of the units in his development sold at auction for $14,000 each. They paid over $400,000 for their home...

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Report this Post04-13-2011 03:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JazzManClick Here to Email JazzManSend a Private Message to JazzManDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I remember that it was high, and I'd be hard pressed not to think that it hasn't gotten a little worse since. I'd figure that a lot of people who are in debt from medical bills, and probably also are facing foreclosure, might file for bankruptcy and list the reason as foreclosure.

Lots of homes were lost, but many of the foreclosures are also due to speculators as well. At least here in Miami, we had people who would buy 2 or 3 condos at a time. People like you or I who under no circumstances could afford them, but did so because they presumed they could make a quick buck...

I have a friend who lives in a nice town-house... but says that it's totally up-side-down. He said at it's peak, two of the units in his development sold at auction for $14,000 each. They paid over $400,000 for their home...


Yeah, a lot of people got suckered into speculating in the housing market, sort of reminds me Tulip Mania. I thought the same thing back during the runup as well. When I was looking for a house I had realtors telling me I could afford a $95,000 house making $13 an hour, and showed me spreadsheets to prove it.They also had no problem finding lenders willing to do a zero-down loan for me and even tried fairly aggressively to talk me into one of those variable rate loans, saying that I could either refinance later or resell the house for a profit. From a paper point of view that all looked valid, but I decided instead to set my sights much lower and ended up with a house with half the payment using a conventional mortgage at 5 1/4%. Sure glad I did, it wasn't two years later than the whole house of cards collapsed. If I hadn't seen the recession coming back then I would probably be without a home now. Whew, dodged a bullet!

Sad thing is, a lot of good families got sucked down the vortex with the speculators.
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cliffw
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Report this Post04-18-2011 05:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwDirect Link to This Post
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