quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: Just sharing some info with you here. You can insure anything. http://www.glamorati.com/ce...h-insured-bodyparts/

Please, let's not send this thread off in that direction. I can only imagine what some of you guys would say is the part of your body that's of the most value!

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: It is accurate. If you let your coverage lapse for any reason then pre-existing condition exclusions apply. If you had coverage through your employer and lost it due to job loss, etc, you can can pay for coverage from your prior employer's insurer at the rate they were paying, that under the COBRA act. If you can't afford that and it lapses, boom, exclusions attach. Even if you can afford COBRA payments there's a time limit, IIRC a year more or less, then it's gone. Basically, insurers have a large palette of reasons to chose from to exclude coverage, and lack of coverage for as little as a month is one of them.

Well I guess I imagined my experience then.
I've also been in the COBRA scenario, and it was cheaper for me to go through BC's individual market than pay cobra. I think I even upgraded to a PPO. I don't think insurers should be able to drop you because you have become too expensive, that would be unfair. But it is also unfair to let people jump on an insurance plan when they find out they have a condition and now need it all of a sudden.

I never said our system was perfect. It definitely can be improved upon.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Since most people can't afford to pay cash for a house and therefor have to get a mortgage, most homeowners are insured...

The whole idea of a mortgage (at least in the old days!) was to get rid of the mortgage by paying it off as soon as possible. At that point a decision still has to be be made... insure or not to insure.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: But I do know that in general, there is a very slim chance that I'll be needing the hospital ANYTIME soon. I didn't say it was impossible, but that it's a slim chance. Just like a flood happening to a highland, or a tornado happening where they rarely ever occur. They can happen, but it's rare. I'm taking my chances, and I'm accepting responsibility for those choices as well.

Funny thing, the thing that went wrong in my heart can happen to anyone, anytime, any age. No risky behavior required. If ht happens to you, you'll be on the hook for around $150,000 for two and a half days in CICU. They'll expect a reasonable payment plan, something that pays it off in, say, 5 years? So, 150,000 / 60 months = $2,500 a month. They'll probably not charge interest, though, and maybe even reduce it a bit since you're indigent (unable to pay). Half of all individual bankruptcies in this country are due to medical bills, so that's a likely path to follow.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Read it any way you wish. I'm saying you never know when you require coverage. Age and/or activities are secondary. Life is risky.

Life is risky, sure. But do you not see any difference in those who take more risks with their lives and health? And should those who don't engage in risky behavior have to pay for it?

Ok Jazzman, you're a hard luck story from what you say. I can sympathize, I would rather it be done through charity of some sort, but ok if the government covers you assuming we can afford to provide for every hard luck case. Do you think the government should cover the injuries of a drunk driver who drove into a tree?

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: Life is risky, sure. But do you not see any difference in those who take more risks with their lives and health? And should those who don't engage in risky behavior have to pay for it? Ok Jazzman, you're a hard luck story from what you say. I can sympathize, I would rather it be done through charity of some sort, but ok if the government covers you assuming we can afford to provide for every hard luck case. Do you think the government should cover the injuries of a drunk driver who drove into a tree?

I am not a drunk driver who drove into a tree.

I didn't say you were. I asked if you think that person's medical bills resulting from their accident of there own fault, should be covered by the same plan that would cover you? Do you want to contribute to it?

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: Life is risky, sure. But do you not see any difference in those who take more risks with their lives and health? And should those who don't engage in risky behavior have to pay for it?

I have to admit it really galls me that fat people usually end up costing medical service plans a helluva lot more money than fit people, especially as they age and fall apart.

And smokers, well, don't get me started.

But I'm willing to accept all that if the overall health and happiness of our society is improved through universal health care.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-12-2011).]

Do you think free care would encourage people to live healthier? Or would they say hell with it if I have another heart attack it won't cost me anything?

Let's just say this: Add Insurance cover, and the actual costs of dealing with a solution will add 45% to the final Bill'. People ALWAYS spend other Peoples' money like water when they don't have to earn it.
I will guarantee you from many experiences in car repair shops, if the job is an Insurance claim job, they will automatically add 20% to the Bill. And the Insurance Companies will turn a blind eye, if it is less than 500 pounds. It would cost them MORE than the added mark-up by the garage to go and check it.
I have always said there should be only 'third party only' coverage, and then maybe there would be probably 30% less claims than when there is fully comprehensive cover available. I checked this out some time ago, so it might have changed, but over a 10 year period of time in the UK, there were 45% MORE claims made for Company owned vehicles, than privately owned. "it isn't mine, I don't have to pay...so I'll take more risks than if it were MY responsibility'.
Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 04-12-2011).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Funny thing, the thing that went wrong in my heart can happen to anyone, anytime, any age. No risky behavior required. If ht happens to you, you'll be on the hook for around $150,000 for two and a half days in CICU. They'll expect a reasonable payment plan, something that pays it off in, say, 5 years? So, 150,000 / 60 months = $2,500 a month. They'll probably not charge interest, though, and maybe even reduce it a bit since you're indigent (unable to pay). Half of all individual bankruptcies in this country are due to medical bills, so that's a likely path to follow.

You said yourself it was a very rare disease. I'm supposed to pay money to some entity because I may get an extremely rare condition over the next few years, but if I don't, then they take all of my money?

If you had the choice of putting $10,000 of your own money on a table while gambling when you only had 1/2000 chance of winning, would you not just walk away and keep your money? That's what I'm doing. I'm sorry to all those who think I should be covering myself right now. I won't anytime soon unless government mandated.

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: Do you think free care would encourage people to live healthier?

Getting people to live healthier lifestyles is definitely one of the the goals of the health care system in Canada. I believe there are stats to show we're a heck of a lot heathier here than in the States.

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: Or would they say hell with it if I have another heart attack it won't cost me anything?

Anyone who would think along those lines has far more serious issues than just with their heart.

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: Do you think free care would encourage people to live healthier? Or would they say hell with it if I have another heart attack it won't cost me anything?

If they are that bad I would assume we'd lose a lot of them to major cardiac arrests.

quote Originally posted by newf: Sounds like buying the extended warranty on products to me, glad I don't have to make that choice with my health because I almost always see the warranty as a rip off. I can't say I blame you at all for not buying the insurance but I do kind of think the system is messed up by making people gamble on their health. Of course that's totally my opinion, points like Scotzilla made about some taking advantage of a socialized system are valid but I think the good far outweighs the bad.

But see--you ARE paying for health insurance. It's in the form of taxes.

I'm happy I'm able to make this decision. I made it very willingly and would make the same decision even if I had tons of money to throw around.

Idk. Some days I become vehemently against socialized health care systems, and other days I think it sounds awesome. I definitely think they both have their ups and downs; I just haven't decided which one has higher ups and which has lower downs.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: I'm happy I'm able to make this decision.

I'm happy you're happy. Dead people are no longer in a position to make that decision, and probably aren't nearly as happy... or are they? So difficult to really know.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: But see--you ARE paying for health insurance. It's in the form of taxes.

Damn, is that how it works! I've often wondered!

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I'm happy you're happy. Dead people are no longer in a position to make that decision, and probably aren't nearly as happy... or are they? So difficult to really know. Damn, is that how it works! I've often wondered!

I interpreted this post in a condescending tone. It may not be as such, but if you are speaking down on me, please don't do so again.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: I interpreted this post in a condescending tone. It may not be as such, but if you are speaking down on me, please don't do so again.

Oh lighten up. This thread has probably run its course. I was just trying to have some fun.

I'll bow out and go work on my headlight motors.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: But see--you ARE paying for health insurance. It's in the form of taxes.

I'm aware of that, and I don't mind and I would be willing to guess I pay a heck of a lot less than $3-400 a month for it.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: I'm happy I'm able to make this decision. I made it very willingly and would make the same decision even if I had tons of money to throw around.

If you had tons of money of course you would make the same decision, it would be much easier to IMO. Kind of why I don't buy the extended warranty on electronics, I figure with the cost of most of my electronics it would be cheaper for me in the long run to keep my money and only replace something in the case that something does occur. Even then I don't think the loss of a piece of electronics would be too worrisome. I can't say I would as easily gamble with my health in that way however.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Idk. Some days I become vehemently against socialized health care systems, and other days I think it sounds awesome. I definitely think they both have their ups and downs; I just haven't decided which one has higher ups and which has lower downs.

As a healthy young person it's great to have the ability to look at both systems from your current state, I wonder how you feel if you had a condition that had put you in financial ruin, or even one that was costing you more than insurance costs would per month.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 04-12-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Oh lighten up. This thread has probably run its course. I was just trying to have some fun. I'll bow out and go work on my headlight motors.

Lol, well I wasn't sure of your intention. Written speech allows for no body language, so sometimes things get misinterpreted.

Just wanted to hold my ground if I was being antagonized. Now that I see I wasn't, no harm no foul eh?

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Now that I see I wasn't, no harm no foul eh?

What's with the "eh"? You part Canadian, or has it just rubbed off by debating with a couple of 'em?

Headlight motors await my care...

quote Originally posted by theBDub: It's very hard for me to put myself in that position. I can empathize in most situations, but I've never been even remotely close to "unhealthy" besides the common flu. Therefore, I really can't put myself there. I try though. As I continue discussing opinions on the matter I'll continue to solidify an opinion. Maybe one day I'll actually know what I believe

It's all good, I'm glad you haven't been in that position and I don't pretend to assume to think that everyone who has been sick would agree anyways. Never hurts to look at things from other perspectives no matter where they are IMO.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: What's with the "eh"? You part Canadian, or has it just rubbed off by debating with a couple of 'em? Headlight motors await my care...

I've found almost everyone around me uses it. I have NO idea why it's attributed to Canadians. I've always used it, even in writing, so I wasn't consciously doing that

Newf, I'm with ya.

Yeah I gotta go do homework. Peace.

quote Originally posted by newf: If they are that bad I would assume we'd lose a lot of them to major cardiac arrests.

How many do you think it would take? I know a guy. Hes a good guy, but he's had 5 heart attacks. He has diabetes and congestive heart failure. He still eats terribly and gets no exercise. All of his care has been provided by the VA. He doesn't even do the minimum of watching his fluid intake. He drinks coke or iced tea when he wants, and if his nose starts bleeding its off to the emergency room again.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: we all buy it because we MUST - be it due to federal or state - doesnt matter - we MUST and, yes, the excemption is: buying insurance from yourself. you still MUST carry insurance. now - if that could be expanded to Obamacare....?

What the hell are you talking about ? Buying insurance from yourself ? Where is the profit motive in that, ?
You seem to think, strike that, you seem to equate personal responsibility, and the ability to prove it, with buying insurance.
That could never be expanded to ObamaCare.
The IRS would be all over your butt.

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quote Originally posted by cliffw: Imagine the freedom fighting troops that we have. Imagine them taking that dreadful bullet. Imagine them knowing the risks. Imagine them believing what Uncle Sam said about their benefits which keep getting cut. Imagine their Commander In Chief holding up their paychecks, to fight budget cutbacks, , .

Funny you should mention that, isn't their healthcare kind of socialized?

quote Originally posted by Patrick: The only insurance companies that I deal with are for my car(s) and for my home. It's interesting that no one has brought up home insurance. Certain people seem to be hung up on auto insurance in this health coverage thread. I guess that way there's no need to mention fires, floods, earthquakes, tornadoes, all the crap that happens to people that ends up costing big money... and wipes them out financially if they're not insured.

See, there is the rub.
The American financial collapse happened because everyone was supposed to be able to buy a house. The collapse was felt world wide. The same argument for ObamaCare is that all are entitled. Even the drug addicts who won't work, the welfare queen baby factories, and all who else will not take personal responsibility.