quote Originally posted by newf: Ummm no you have that backwards according to news reports, Obama's statements came out and then Gaddafi suggested the "cease fire".

I saw the report of Libya offering the cease fire before Obama's statements. Looking back at the news articles, it appears Gadhafi's offer of a cease fire, the UN passing a resolution authorizing a No-Fly Zone and Obama's "demand" all happened on the same day. I'm not going to look for time stamps to see who said what first, so I'll give Obama credit for making his demand first - if only by hours or minutes.

I certainly have a new found respect for his leadership now.

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: Ah, well...yer involved now....US ships fired Tomahawks at Libyan positions today. http://www.foxnews.com/

Watch the gas prices skyrocket. I predict $4.50/gal or higher national average by the middle of April if this is prolonged.

Europe didn't seem too concerned about Libya until all those North African refugees started streaming there.

Italy sounds like Arizona in its comments about the flood of illegal immigrants.

quote Originally posted by spark1: Europe didn't seem too concerned about Libya until all those North African refugees started streaming there. Italy sounds like Arizona in its comments about the flood of illegal immigrants.

I wonder if Obama will try to sue them, too?
Nah, that's silly. He'd have the UN do it.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I certainly have a new found respect for his leadership now.

Yea, me too. Hes managed to get us involved in someone elses crap again trying to make himself look like hes important or relevant.

Hes also emphatically said we will NOT send any military troops into Lybia. Im posting that now to be able to reference it later when he DOES.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 03-20-2011).]

Let freedom ring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MARCH 19, 2011 OBAMA: 'Today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world'...

MARCH 19, 2003 BUSH: 'American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger'...

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess:

Well done!

------------------
And they said one to another, "Behold, for here comes the dreamer. Come now, let us slay him and we shall see what then will become of his dreams." ~ Genesis 37: 19-20

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 03-20-2011).]

I'm not one to usually get involed in these political threads cause the outcome is usually negative ratings on my bar but I have something to say and dammit i'm gonna say it.

The USA is in financial dire straights. "We the people" are loosing everything we worked so hard to obtain. We are loosing our homes, jobs, lives, our freedoms and so on. Yet we (our government) still manage to find millions upon millions of dollars to send to other countries in aid.

The "Obama Nation" needs to STOP! "We the people" need to stand up and take "our" country back. Our tax money should not be leaving this country unless "We the people" vote on it. The money we pay in taxes is "our" money and we should be using it for "our" country not others. We need to pull any and all US Troops out of every country and bring them home to defend "our" borders and liberties. Let all the other countries deal with their own problems. They made their bed so they need to lie in it! Don't get me wrong. I feel bad for countries like Japan who got hit with a natural disaster, Haiti with an earthquake and so on but who came to our rescue when Katrina & Charlie wiped out the Gulf Coast? NO ONE! We (The USA) have our own problems and we need to help ourselves before we help others.

Libya is in dire need of a new Muslim Leader. Lets fix 2 problems with 1 move and give them ours!

I'm sick of my taxes being raised just so my money can be used to bail out other countries and their problems. What about our (We the people) problems. I have been a responsible American. I have not overspent credit. As a matter of fact, I am "debt" free. I have no loans of any kind and no credit cards with oustanding balances. I only have the typical monthly utility bills like food, rent, electric, internet, phone and so on. Yet I struggle monthly to pay those bills on time. I spend $100 a week in gas just so I can get back and forth to work!

[This message has been edited by JimmyS (edited 03-20-2011).]

quote The USA is in financial dire straights. "We the people" are loosing everything we worked so hard to obtain. We are loosing our homes, jobs, lives, our freedoms and so on. Yet we (our government) still manage to find millions upon millions of dollars to send to other countries in aid.

Mission accomplished?

quote Originally posted by JimmyS: ...Libya is in dire need of a new Muslim Leader. Lets fix 2 problems with 1 move and give them ours!

Baaaahahahahahaha!!!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 03-20-2011).]

Video of US Air Force aircraft being armed at Aviano Air Force Base, Italy on satellite broadcast. Videos filmed through the security fence.
It appeared on RT, Russian Television.

In yet another sign of the coming apocalypse in 2012, the French took military action first.

Isn't it reassuring to know that all Obama has to do to be considered a "success" in the eyes of his minions is be better than this guy.


Yes we can! Obama can be *almost* the worst president ever! Yay! (and they'll cheer for that)
Obama will never rise to the heady heights of those legendary presidents like Franklin Pearce, Millard Filmore, and Jimmy Carter. He doesn't have to be as good as they were - only better than the guy they call the "worst ever."

quote Originally posted by JimmyS: who came to our rescue when Katrina & Charlie wiped out the Gulf Coast? NO ONE! We (The USA) have our own problems and we need to help ourselves before we help others.

If someone needed CPR, would you stop and ponder if they'd save you before saving them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...to_Hurricane_Katrina

Afghanistan
Donated $100,000 to the hurricane victims.

Albania
Donated $308,000.

Argentina
Made offers of help and assistance. Argentina also dispatched an elite team of bilingual mental health professionals.

Armenia
Pledged $200,000 and made offers of help and assistance.

Australia
A$10 million (approximately US$7.5 million), and a team of 1,000 emergency response officers immediately. Donated A$20 million to American Red Cross.

Austria
140 specialists of the AFDRU were put on stand-by. Their focus was to have been on providing clean water with portable water-treatment plants. Within the EU Emergency Assistance for Katrina, Austria set up a communication network using IT and communication equipment for assistance/support, provided 10 sets petrol driven dirty water pumps, 500 pieces tarps/plastic sheeting and 300 camp beds.

Azerbaijan
Donated $500,000.

The Bahamas
Pledged $50,000.

Bahrain
Donated $5 million.

Belarus
Helped out and offered medical assistance

Belgium
Offered 3 Medical teams of 31 personnel, logistic team of 10 personnel, coordination team of 4 personnel, civil engineering team of 10 personnel, diving team, and also balloon-lamps, low and high capacity pumps and small generators.

Bosnia and Herzegovina
Made offers of help and assistance.

Brunei
Donated $1 million.

Cambodia
The king donated $20,000 to match the $20,000 Cambodian government donation.

Canada
Main article: Canadian response to Hurricane Katrina
September 5, 35 military divers were poised to depart by air Sunday from Halifax and Esquimalt, B.C., for the New Orleans area. September 4, On the request from U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Canada sent thousands of beds, blankets, surgical gloves and dressings and other medical supplies. On September 2 the Government of Canada announced it was sending three warships along with a Coast Guard vessel, and three Sea King helicopters to the area. Over 1,000 personnel are involved in the operation, including engineers and navy divers. The Canadian Heavy Urban Search and Rescue out of Vancouver was in Louisiana from September 1, due to security they started their mission on Sept 3. Ontario Hydro, Hydro-Québec, and Manitoba Hydro, along with other electrical utilities, had crews set to go to the affected areas. On September 2 Air Canada participated along with U.S. member airlines of the Air Transport Association, in a voluntary airline industry initiative to support rescue and relief operations. Money donations although where very high, the province of Alberta alone threw in 5 million dollars. Although it is hard to put an exact number on Canadian cash donations because of some Canadians donating directly to the American agencies, Canada is widely believed to be the highest international donor nation, and was the only country in the world to supply direct military assistance in addition to civilian donations and supplies as the US Government declined direct military support from all other nations.

People's Republic of China
On September 2, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that it will offer $5 million along with emergency supplies, including 1,000 tents, 600 generators, bed sheets, immediately for disaster relief. China also offered to send medical care and rescue workers if they were needed. This aid package consisting of 104 tons of supplies later arrived in Little Rock, Arkansas. A chartered plane carrying the supplies arrived on September 7.

Republic of China (Taiwan)
Pledged more than $3 million to the relief effort, plus supplies.

Colombia
Made offers of help and assistance.

Cuba
One of the first countries to offer aid, Cuba offered to send 1,586 doctors and 26 tons of medicine. This aid was rejected by the State Department. Also, before the 2006 World Baseball Classic, Cuba said they would donate their share of the winnings to Katrina victims to ensure the United States embargo against Cuba was not violated. However, after the tournament, the U.S. government refused to allow the donation.

Cyprus
Offered $50,000.

Czech Republic
Offered rescue teams, field hospital and pumps and water processing equipment.

Denmark
Offered water purification units.

Djibouti
Offered $50,000.

Dominica
Offered police to monitor hard-hit areas.

Dominican Republic
Offered rescue workers, doctors and nurses.

Ecuador
Made offers of help and assistance.

Egypt
Sent 2 C-130 planes loaded with blankets, medical equipment, and canned food.

El Salvador
Offered to send troops to help keep order in New Orleans.

Equatorial Guinea
Pledged $500,000.

Finland
The Finn Rescue Force—the group consists of 30 firemen was offered by the Finnish Government but refused. The Finnish Red Cross sent three Red Cross logistics experts.
$100,000 was given by the Finnish government to be distributed by U.S. authorities. A Finnish cruise ship, Finnjet, operated by Silja Lines, was sent to Baton Rouge for use by the LSU Department of Medicine. 9,000 sheets, 1,000 pillowcases, 200 small tarps, 200 first aid kits, 120 cooler cases and 3,500 thermo sheets were sent to Little Rock for distribution in Louisiana. Nokia donated $1 million to the U.S. Red Cross and matched employee contributions at 100 percent. Mobile phones were donated to shelters in Dallas, Houston and San Antonio.
Additionally Finland offered 300 tents, a water purification unit, sterile gloves, bed sheets, pillow covers, tarps and first aid kits.

France
Main article: French response to Hurricane Katrina
Concrete help was refused by the US government initially, however on September 2, Condoleezza Rice said that the US authorities would assess the situation and contact French authorities accordingly. On September 4, US authorities formally requested French assistance. France offered disaster relief stocks prepositioned in Martinique (600 tents, around 1000 beds, 60 electrogenic groups, 3 pumps, 3 water purification stations, 1000 folding jerricanes and other material). A 35-person team of the Sécurité civile (Civil defence) from Guadeloupe and Martinique were made ready, and a 60-man "catastrophe intervention" aeromobile detachment were prepared to be ferried from mainland in a short time. The Ministry of Defence offered 2 planes already in the zone and 6 more from mainland France, and two ships of the French Navy (probably the BATRAL Francis Garnier or Champlain, and the frigate Ventôse) and a 20-person team of emergency medical specialists. The non-governmental organisation Télécoms sans frontières and the company Véolia environnement offered aid in communications and water management, respectively. On September 7, the Ministry for Foreign Affairs stated that an Airbus Beluga from Toulouse with 12,7 tonnes of supplies flew to Mobile, Alabama, after a brief stop in the UK to load more food. Two Casa airplanes from Martinique landed in Little Rock, Arkansas, ferrying tents, covers and 1000 rations of food for 24 hours.

Gabon
Pledged $500,000.

Georgia
Made offers of help and assistance.

Germany
Two German Army Airbus planes landed in Florida with about 25 tonnes of food rations to be transported to the disaster area. Further planes were prepared. Germany offered airlifting, vaccination, water purification, medical supplies including German air force
hospital planes, emergency electrical power and pumping services. The aid was ready to go on German air force and chartered planes. A team of specialists from THW (German federal agency for technical relief) were planning technical measures and logistics in close contact with local authorities. A team of 89 flood fighting specialists and 5 medical personnel were dispatched from Ramstein Air Base to Louisiana by the United States Air Force. They brought 15 high performance pumps (10 pumps with a capacity of 15,000 litres per minute and 5 pumps with a capacity of 5,000 litres per minute) and 28 vehicles.[22] On Saturday, September 10 at 4:30 p.m., the THW started the first 15,000 litre pump at pumping-station No. 19. Three other 15,000 litres pumps followed. The drainage of New Orleans would have taken much more time if these pumps and the THW specialists had not been provided.[23]
The Minister-President of the federal state of Rhineland-Palatinate addressed a letter to the commanders of the American forces stationed in his state offering financial support to those affected by the flooding.
Another German Air Force cargo plane carrying several thousand military rations (MRE) was denied entry into US airspace since, according to US authorities, they were not certified BSE-free. This was disputed by German authorities, pointing out that they were BSE-free according to NATO rules, that US soldiers would eat them regularly during joint operations (e.g. Afghanistan) and that these meals fully complied to UN rules.[24]

Greece
Offered $85,000,[25] two cruise ships to house those left homeless, a rescue team, and supplies.

Guatemala
Made offers of help and assistance.

Guyana
Made offers of help and assistance and organized a telethon to raise money for victims.

Honduras
Offered 135 flooding and sanitation experts.

Hungary
Pledged $5,000 and offered to send a Special Search and Rescue Team, and also five doctors.

Iceland
Offered $500,000.

India
India offered to contribute $5 million to the United States Red Cross for relief and rehabilitation of the victims. They also offered to donate medicines and large water purification systems for use in households and small communities in the stricken areas, where potable water was a key concern.[26] India sent tarps, blankets and hygiene kits. An Indian Air Force IL-76 aircraft delivered 25 tonnes of relief supplies for the Hurricane Katrina victims at the Little Rock Air Force Base, Arkansas on September 13, 2005.[27]

Indonesia
Offered to send 45 doctors and 155 other medical staffers and 10,000 blankets to help survivors.

Iran
Offered to send humanitarian aid and 20 million barrels (3,200,000 m3) of crude oil.[16][28]

Iraq
Pledged $1 million to the Red Cross via the Red Crescent.

Republic of Ireland
Offered to send 30 members of the Irish Defence Forces. The Irish army would have supplied thousands of ready meals, tents, blankets, water purification services and medical aid, including first aid kits, crutches and wheelchairs. The group would have included about ten experts in stress debriefing. Six of the troops would have operated two water purification plants. The Irish Government also announced it is to provide initial funding of EUR 1.2 million for the victims.

Israel
Offered field hospitals and hundreds of doctors, nurses, technicians and other experts in trauma, natural disasters and public health.[29]
An Israeli airlift arrived in Little Rock, Arkansas with an eighty-ton shipment of humanitarian aid, including baby food, diapers, water, ready-to-eat meals, clothes, tents, blankets, mattresses, stretchers, first aid kits, wheelchairs, and other medical supplies.
The Magen David Adom began "United Brotherhood Operation," which sent a plane-load of supplies and financial assistance.
IsraAid sent a delegation of medical personnel, psychologists, and experienced search-and-rescue divers. The 18-member team — which included physicians, mental health professionals, trauma specialists, logistics experts and a special unit of Israeli police divers — arrived in St. Bernard Parish and Plaquemines Parish on Sept. 10 and spent a week and a half assisting fire department search-and-rescue squads and sitting in on daily planning meetings that included local leadership and a complement of Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), police, military and fire representativesmedical team.[30]
Five universities in Israel welcomed displaced American students from the affected areas and invited both undergraduate and graduate students to continue their studies in Israel.[31] In particular, medical students unable to attend the Tulane University in New Orleans can attend Tel Aviv University's Sackler School of Medicine.[32]

Italy
Italy offered to send two Hercules C130 cargo aircraft fitted with emergency aids, including 300 Adult camp beds, 300 blankets, 600 sheets, 1 suction pump, 6 lifecrafts, 11.200 chlorine tablets, 5 units of large first aid kits, baby food formula pumps, tents and power generators. Italy also offered to send some experts of the Protezione Civile to help coordinating relief efforts in the damaged area.[8]

Jamaica
Made offers of help and assistance.

Japan
The Japanese Foreign Ministry said that it would provide $200,000 in cash to the American Red Cross to assist victims of Hurricane Katrina. Japan also identified needs in affected regions via the U.S. government and provided up to $800,000 in emergency supplies such as tents, blankets and power generators if they receive requests from the U.S. for such assistance. Private and corporate donations totaled over $13 million.[33] One Japanese individual, Takashi Endo, donated USD $1 million from his personal funds to Katrina relief efforts.

Jordan
Made offers of help and assistance.

Kenya
Offered $100,000.[2] There were also early reports of $400 million in petroleum products being donated from Kenya, though these later proved to be erroneous.[34]

South Korea
Offered $ 30 million and dispatched a rescue team.[15]

Kuwait
Parliament approved $500 million for aid in oil and other humanitarian aid.[35]

Latvia
Offered a disaster relief team

Lithuania
Made offers of help and assistance.

Luxembourg
Team of five persons, 1000 camp beds and 2000 blankets.[8]

Malaysia
Pledged $1 million to American Red Cross.

Maldives
Sent $25,000 to American Red Cross.

Mauritania
Promised $200,000 to American Red Cross.

Malta
Made offers of help and assistance.[8]

Mexico
Main article: Mexican response to Hurricane Katrina
Kelly Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas received almost 196 Mexican troops, 14 truckloads of water, a mobile surgical unit, 45 military vehicles, 3 tons of purified water, and more than 250 tons of food, bottled water, canned food, disposable diapers and medical supplies. The Mexican Government sent $1 million through the Mexican Red Cross which collected an additional million, as well as 200 tons of food delivered in five airplanes from the Mexican Air Force by another Mexican Government body. The Mexican Navy sent two ships, 385 troopers, eight all-terrain vehicles, seven amphibious vehicles, two tankers, two helicopters, radio communication equipment, medical personnel and 296 tons of food as well. The state of Jalisco also sent four experts in disaster, while the Federal government offered to send expert teams in epidemiology and to cover the costs of returning any Mexican national back to Mexico.

Mongolia
Pledged $50,000.

Nepal
Pledged $25,000.[36]

The Netherlands
Royal Netherlands Navy Frigate Hr. Ms. Van Amstel arrived from the Netherlands Antilles. The frigate was filled with supplies and had helicopters on board that can be used in rescue actions. Further, The Netherlands sent experts on the subject of water containment and dikes, identification teams and pumps to deliver clean drinking water, F-16s with sophisticated infra red or thermography camera pods (to look for weaknesses in the levees, corpses and hidden survivors) and divers from the Royal Netherlands Marine Corps. On September 7 The U.S. government announced that it would take up the Dutch government's offer to send water pumps, and also five water management experts.

New Zealand
Main article: New Zealand response to Hurricane Katrina
Pledged $2 million though the Red Cross. This contribution was in addition to the offers the government has already made to send an Urban Search and Rescue Team, a Disaster Victim Identification team or post disaster recovery personnel.[37]

Nicaragua
Made offers of help and assistance.

Nigeria
Pledged $1 million to hurricane disaster relief.

Norway
Made offers of help and assistance. An amount of NOK 10 million was given through the Norwegian Red Cross and the UN. In addition, Norway offered divers and medicines.

Oman
Pledged $15 million.

Pakistan
On September 4 Pakistan offered to send a team of doctors and paramedics to support the relief agencies. Pakistan also pledged $1 million through the Red Cross.

Palau
Pledged $50,000.

Papua New Guinea
Promised $10,000 to American Red Cross.

Paraguay
Made offers of help and assistance.

Peru
Offered to send 80-100 doctors to help survivors.

Philippines
Offered to send a 25-member team of aid workers. The Philippines Red Cross donated $25,000.

Poland
Made offers of help and assistance.

Portugal
Offered tents, mattresses, blankets, hygiene kits. Portugal lent 2% of its strategic oil reserve, equivalent to 500,000 barrels (79,000 m3) of oil.[citation needed]

Qatar
Pledged $100 million to the victims.[38]

Romania
Offered 2 Teams of medical experts.[8]

Russia
Was one of the first countries to offer assistance. Up to four jets were placed on standby at the Ramenskoe airport near Moscow as early as August 30, including heavy Ilyushin Il-76-TDs with special evacuation equipment, medical equipment, a water-cleansing system, a BK-117 rescue helicopter and two special cars; and a passenger IL-62, which brought 10 coordinators and 50 rescuers, as well as 6 tons of drinking water. On September 6, the Bush administration gave its approval.[39]

Saudi Arabia
Saudi Refining, a Houston-based subsidiary of state oil firm Saudi Aramco, donated $5 million to the American Red Cross, as well as $250,000 from AGFUND.

Singapore
Main article: Singaporean response to Hurricane Katrina
Three Singaporean CH-47 Chinook helicopters and thirty-eight RSAF personnel from a training detachment based in Grand Prairie, Texas assisted in relief operations from 1 September. They had so far ferried about 700 evacuees and hauled tons of supplies in 39 sorties on 4 September. One more CH-47 Chinook helicopter was sent to aid in relief efforts.[40]

Slovakia
Promised blankets, beds, first aid kits.

Slovenia
$120,000 worth of cots, mattresses, blankets, temporary shelters and first-aid kits.[41]

Spain
Spain sent 2.1 million barrels (330,000 m3) of crude oil from its strategic reserves (the 1.75% of the Spanish reserves) for a 30 day period.[42] On September 7 two Hercules cargo aircraft took off with 15 tons of food rations, electrical generators and batteries, medical equipment and other humanitarian assistance collected by the Agencia Española de Cooperación Internacional (AECI). A second envoy was sent a few days later.[43]

Sri Lanka
Pledged $25,000 for relief efforts.[44]

Sweden
Main article: Swedish response to Hurricane Katrina
Sweden offered to send medical and technical aid, and a Hercules cargo aircraft filled with three complete GSM systems, first aid kits, blankets, Ready-to-eat meals, generators, 2 heavy water purification plants, as well as water sanitation experts. On September 4 the U.S. State Department declined the aid, saying it was currently unable to accept foreign aid packages. On September 12 the Hercules plane left the Gothenburg-Landvetter Airport, carrying a cargo of three Ericsson GSM network systems. A team of technical consultants to help with the aid package was also provided.[45]

Switzerland
Switzerland offered specialised personnel and material to the USA and the World Health Organisation (WHO). In accordance with US requirements, 50 tonnes of rescue equipment were ready to be sent, along with two logisticians of the Direction du développement et de la coopération (DDC, "Swiss Agency for Development and Cooperation") to help coordinate distributions. Four physicians and two water specialists were also put to the disposal of the WHO.

Thailand
Sent at least 60 doctors and nurses along with rice.

Tunisia
Sent two C-130s with relief supplies.

Turkey
Promised $2.5 million in cash and aid.

Uganda
Offered $200,000.[2]

United Arab Emirates
Pledged $100 million.

United Kingdom
The United Kingdom dispatched 500,000 ration packs worth EUR 3 million, to the region. However, many of the ration packs did not reach victims due to laws regarding mad cow disease.[46] It also offered medical experts, Urban Search and Rescue equipment, Marine engineers and high-volume pumps, skilled personnel including engineers who could support recovery efforts for installations and systems, technicians, staff trained in disaster management and emergency response activities. It also pledged to release an extra 2.2 million barrels (350,000 m3) of oil.[8][47]

Venezuela
President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela offered one million barrels of oil and 5 million dollars in aid to the United States. This aid was rejected by the State Department.State-owned Petróleos de Venezuela, the parent company of Citgo Petroleum Corporation, has also pledged a $2 million donation for hurricane aid. Two mobile hospital units were also offered, but were declined, according to Jesse Jackson.

Vietnam
Pledged $100,000.

Yemen
Pledged $100,000 through the Red Cross.

Libya 2011 vs. Iraq 2003 -- differences outweigh similarities

One of the recurrent themes in this thread is to compare what's going on in Libya to the decision by George W. Bush to invade Iraq in 2003. Why is the U.S. getting so deeply involved? Why intervene in another Muslim country when the only "gratitude" we are likely to receive is Arabs and other Muslims in the streets again, burning the American flag and otherwise hating on us?

I disagree.

I think that Obama and the U.S. are going to come out of this looking very good in the eyes of international public opinion, even in the Arab and Muslim world.

I agree with this brief analysis from CNN Security Analyst Peter Bergen:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPI...us/index.html?hpt=C2

His conclusion?

The high level of anti-Americanism in the Muslim world that was generated by the Iraq War is unlikely to be replicated by U.S. military action against Libya, because Gadhafi is widely reviled in the Arab world. His antics on the world stage have earned him the enmity of even his fellow autocrats -- who will not be welcoming him if he chooses to "retire" to Saudi Arabia as other murderous dictators of his ilk have in the past (think Idi Amin).

And the fact that both the Arab League and the United Nations have endorsed a military action against Gadhafi strongly suggests that the Libyan intervention will not generate a renewed wave of anti-Americanism in the Muslim world.

Instead, it underlines a striking feature of the protests that have roiled the Middle East in the past several weeks: Strikingly absent from those protests has been the ritualized burning of American flags, something that hitherto was largely pro forma in that part of the world. That's because Arabs have finally been able to express publicly that their biggest enemy is not the United States, but their own rulers.

I also think that this is going to come out very nicely for Obama, in terms of his popularity within the U.S. It may not outweigh Obama's other problems (starting with the seemingly lackluster economy), but when it's all said and done in Libya and Qaddafi is gone (and I think that he will be gone), I think that the Obama administration is going to benefit from this, in terms of U.S. public opinion.

Another "Iraq"..?

I don't think so ...

"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation." -Sen. Obama, 12/20/2007

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: "The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation." -Sen. Obama, 12/20/2007

What he really meant was a Republican President does not have the power...

Ya, Obama has the power to do whatever he wants whenever he wants. Ask him.....

As expected, this is not a "no fly zone". This is an air campaign with air strikes against ground targets like tanks, trucks, builds etc.

http://www.rferl.org/conten...strikes/2345031.html

Another difference between Iraq and Libya. Bush got approval from congress first!
I respect these folks for at least being consistent.
"Liberal Democrats in Uproar over Libya"
http://www.politico.com/new...ries/0311/51595.html

I'm very happy to see people being pretty steady, and not two sided (not on PFF, but in general). Most people that I know that were against Bush's initial attack are against this, and most that were for it are for this. It's actually REALLY interesting how mature many are being about the whole thing.

I'm impressed.

Isn't this just great. The Arab League asks for the UN to set up a no fly zone over Libya. Guess how many Arab countries sent aircraft to help? Two

http://www.huffingtonpost.c...838076_81407792.html

quote Timestamp: 6:35pm Qatar isn't the only Arab country sending planes to join the campaign against Gaddafi. Aircraft from the United Arab Emirates are due to arrive at the Decimomann­u air force base on the Italian island of Sardinia, says the AFP news agency.

So why are we fighting their war for them?


edit another link:
http://www.forbes.com/feeds...f-libya_8366983.html

[This message has been edited by Doug85GT (edited 03-21-2011).]

Because the Saudis need to keep their planes close to home in case they need to bomb the Bahraini protesters or some of their own.

This just gets better. No one is in charge and there is no clear goal of the air strikes other than the amophous "protect the civilians" who happend to be rebels carrying rifles, grenade launches and shooting at Khadafi's troops. The kicker is that "Admiral Mullen conceded that the war could end in a stalemate with Gadhafi staying in power."

http://online.wsj.com/artic...=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

Haha - now Liberal Democrats are outraged over the missle attacks, and are calling for the impeachment of Obama. How is the anointed one going to blame this on Bush?

http://www.politico.com/new...ries/0311/51595.html

quote Originally posted by loafer87gt: Haha - now Liberal Democrats are outraged over the missle attacks, and are calling for the impeachment of Obama. How is the anointed one going to blame this on Bush? http://www.politico.com/new...ries/0311/51595.html

I don't doubt it exists... but are there any links to Obama actually saying anything major was Bush's fault? Directly?

I also am proud of our citizens... I do see partisanship but not THAT much.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: I don't doubt it exists... but are there any links to Obama actually saying anything major was Bush's fault? Directly? I also am proud of our citizens... I do see partisanship but not THAT much.

Here you go 2,300,000 results from Google. I know your president isn't the smartest peanut in the turd, but you would think he would at least be able to get it through his thick skull that he is not campaigning against the Bush administration.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=obama+blames+bush

And for the record, I am glad NATO managed to convince Obama to take action in Libya. It was the right thing IMHO, even if he was reluctant to do so.

[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 03-21-2011).]

quote Originally posted by loafer87gt: Here you go 2,300,000 results from Google. I know your president isn't the smartest peanut in the turd, but you would think he would at least be able to get it through his thick skull that he is not campaigning against the Bush administration. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=obama+blames+bush And for the record, I am glad NATO managed to convince Obama to take action in Libya. It was the right thing IMHO, even if he was reluctant to do so.

Sorry. I'm a big fan of LMGTFY pointers

I Googled "Obama says it's all bush's fault". Pulled up other crap.

I didn't Google smart enough

We could always flatten the whole country and say it was reparations for the Barbary Pirates taking Americans as slaves two hundred years ago.

On a more serious note.
Gaddafi’s son ‘killed in kamikaze pilot attack on barracks’
http://patriotupdate.com/45...t-attack-on-barracks

quote Colonel Gaddafi suffered a massive personal setback today when one of his sons was allegedly killed in a suicide air mission on his barracks. Khamis, 27, who runs the feared Khamis Brigade that has been prominent in its role of attacking rebel-held areas, is said to have died on Saturday night. A Libyan air force pilot crashed his jet into the Bab al-Aziziya compound in Tripoli in a kamikaze attack, Algerian TV reported following an unsubstantiated claim by an anti-Gaddafi media organisation. Khamis is alleged to have died of burns in hospital. The regime denied the reports. It was claimed he died in the same compound hit by RAF cruise missiles hit by coalition forces last night.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: On a more serious note. Gaddafi’s son ‘killed in kamikaze pilot attack on barracks’ http://patriotupdate.com/45...t-attack-on-barracks

So, we got Gaddafi's step-daughter in 1986, and now his son is gone. How many (step)children does he have left? Is that the same plane they said was shot down?

quote Originally posted by avengador1: On a more serious note. Gaddafi’s son ‘killed in kamikaze pilot attack on barracks’ http://patriotupdate.com/45...t-attack-on-barracks

I haven't seen this story surface on any of the "big" news sites.

?

quote Originally posted by 1985FieroGT: If the US wasn't the world police the world would fall into utter chaos.

Heh. Seems like it's pretty chaotic no matter WHAT we do...

quote Originally posted by Blacktree:

NSFW c'mon now

quote I haven't seen this story surface on any of the "big" news sites.

Me neither. This is the second story not being carried by the mainstream media, the other one is about another oil spill in the gulf.

Whoppie. we give them hundreds of billions of dollars worth of support and get a few thousand of our soldiers killed and this was the best they could do.....Thats like someone buying a car from me and wanting to pay a dollar a month payment. That didnt even reimburse ONE persons home loss.

Afghanistan
Donated $100,000 to the hurricane victims.


Obama is damn lucky the 2 US pilots didnt get killed in the F15 crash this morning in Lybia. He would be getting a huge amount of flak again.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Whoppie. we give them hundreds of billions of dollars worth of support and get a few thousand of our soldiers killed and this was the best they could do.....Thats like someone buying a car from me and wanting to pay a dollar a month payment. That didnt even reimburse ONE persons home loss. Afghanistan Donated $100,000 to the hurricane victims.

Why would you expect anything more than a symbolic contribution from an impoverished country like Afghanistan?

More to the point:

"The week after Hurricane Katrina struck, the UAE (United Arab Emirates) joined about three dozen countries in offering cash and other aid to the United States. The UAE was one of the most generous donors, joining Qatar, which donated $100 million; Saudi Arabia, which donated $255 million from its national oil company, Aramco; and Kuwait, which contributed $400 million in oil and $100 million in cash, according to the U.S. mission to the U.N. in Geneva, Switzerland."
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=6962

I would like to see some of the rich and well-armed Arab states (like Saudi Arabia) sending warplanes and pilots to police the No Fly Zone in Libya. It's shameful that they don't. But they will probably chip in with some real money in terms of contributions--either directly to the U.S. for "services rendered", or more likely, for assistance to the "Free Libya" that emerges after Qaddafi goes down.