I think all you naysayers have it wrong. Solar is good for the nation as it keeps the need to build power stations lower. Installing units on houses employs people - lots of people. Of course, the market will change too. The cost has come down, yes - but I imagine the end game will to be to reduce the cost of electricity - and therefore the ROI over time. So the pro-solar crown is a little 'over-heated' too. Having said that, I would suggest NOT paying for your solar systems. There are companies that take on the expense of buying, installing and maintaining a solar system, sell the surplus to the power companies and you get the benefit of a lower bill. Granted, most of us aren't home during the day when these things are putting out, but putting power into the grid this way beefs up the power grid and could make it less vulnerable to failure, disasters and attacks.

This is the sort of thing Adam Smith would have gotten behind, with the government encouraging new technologies and businesses to bring things to market that benefits the citizens. Not cementing the hold large corporations have over us. I can imagine as one pays off their home and nears retirement this would be a sensible investment - reducing a common expense. Heck, in 20 years maybe systems will become super efficient and cheap and we won't be debating this.

The downside is that we'll probably buy the hardware from overseas instead of making it here. There are a couple companies that are ARRA even though they are foreign owned. But then, that's the free market for ya.

[This message has been edited by USFiero (edited 08-19-2011).]

I think solar is great, but for me, in my area, it is not practical. My roof is covered with snow about 6 months out of the year. Plus, the cost vs benefit is just not there. My electric bill is very cheap as is my heating bill. I would never see a ROI, unless maybe after 75 years.... and I am guess the solar panels would have been replaced a few times by then.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: You have to qualify for the financing, and the tax break is from the Feds to the Solar company. The quote I got was from "The Solar Company", but they may be only in California. www.thesolarco.com

I was actually asking about this:

quote Originally posted by fierobear: So...IF I could get it financed, I'd be paying around $60 a month more. Also, we're on a reduced rate from the utility because of income level, so I'm actually paying less than the $253/month. Technically, that shouldn't be a factor in comparing the monthly cost, but when it affects your bottom line, it has to be factored in anyway.

Which seemed to say that you're paying less for your electricity because of your income level.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Which seemed to say that you're paying less for your electricity because of your income level.

Yes, our utility has a discount rate available. We probably won't continue to qualify for it, since our income is going up. But as of right now, solar wouldn't save us anything even if we could qualify for the financing.

Here are some specs for you guys...

July - 1100 kwh - 37kwh/day average - $150 Bill
August - 961 kwh - 31kwh/day average - 24kwh sold (just installed) - $130 Bill
September - 949 kwh - 29kwh/day average - 107kwh sold - $115 Bill
October - 642 kwh - 23kwh/day average - 0kwh sold - $90 Bill
November - 634 kwh -13kwh/day average - 262kwh sold - $57 Bill

I think now that winter is upon us, we'll be seeing less mid-afternoon storms, which means more power (grunt-grunt-grunt)

The $50 electric bill surprised me though, I'll tell you what...

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: The $50 electric bill surprised me though, I'll tell you what...

More than you thought or less?

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: ...which means more power (grunt-grunt-grunt)

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I thought (and am still thinking) about going full solar. My main limitations are shade ...

That's what the chain saw is for.

Nice Job! If you don't mind could you continue to post your output? I just got stuck with a last minute project where I am designing a system for a home in Jax and this is good real world data.

I can't wait to see where thin film CdTe technology ends up. They already have the cost down to well below 1$/watt, but like you mentioned earlier they aren't as efficient. Fortunately that is slowly improving, the latest thin film efficiencies are over 12% now and they are competitive with the poly-Si cells. Interesting stuff!

quote Originally posted by fierobear: More than you thought or less?

The best-case max I can make any given month is ~300kwh. That works out to about $40 after taxes.

I never expected my bill to be lower than ~$90/mo. But I guess the A/C was drawing a **** -load more power than I thought. Average temps now are ~78 high, ~55 low. (Electric) Heater has been on full-time for about a month now.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: The best-case max I can make any given month is ~300kwh. That works out to about $40 after taxes. I never expected my bill to be lower than ~$90/mo. But I guess the A/C was drawing a **** -load more power than I thought. Average temps now are ~78 high, ~55 low. (Electric) Heater has been on full-time for about a month now.

Cool.

I've been kicking around the idea of doing solar myself by adding a panel or two when I have the money. In other words, I'd pay for the panels outright, but over time. My main concern there is being able to get the same panels over time so that the system works properly. Although I suppose you could mix panels, but then are the rails standardized for different panel types?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Cool. I've been kicking around the idea of doing solar myself by adding a panel or two when I have the money. In other words, I'd pay for the panels outright, but over time. My main concern there is being able to get the same panels over time so that the system works properly. Although I suppose you could mix panels, but then are the rails standardized for different panel types?

You would want to stick to one manufacturer and probably one model. The rails will work for all different sizes, but some panels are 48" long, some 50", some ... etc, not to mention your roof would start to look like a patchwork quilt. Aesthetics or not, I want my solar panels to be one color.

So can you break it down?

Average electricity produced per month

Cost of the average month savings

Cost of the installation with and without the government paying for it

Payback in months with and without the government paying for it?

Thanks

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 11-12-2011).]

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: You would want to stick to one manufacturer and probably one model. The rails will work for all different sizes, but some panels are 48" long, some 50", some ... etc, not to mention your roof would start to look like a patchwork quilt. Aesthetics or not, I want my solar panels to be one color.

I'm not worried about the aesthetics. I'd probably be installing them on my shop roof. It is a metal building, 60 x 36, and the sun side is away from the house. Even if they would be visible from the ground, only my neighbors would see them.

Pollen or dust has been in the air recently, and I noticed the panels were filthy. I took a before/after average comparison over 15 minutes and the results were a gain of 7% before/after washing (2039 watts to 2183 watts). I thought that was interesting enough to pass along...

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Pollen or dust has been in the air recently, and I noticed the panels were filthy. I took a before/after average comparison over 15 minutes and the results were a gain of 7% before/after washing (2039 watts to 2183 watts). I thought that was interesting enough to pass along...

how did you wash them, and what kind of savings have you seen?

Brad

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: The best-case max I can make any given month is ~300kwh. That works out to about $40 after taxes. I never expected my bill to be lower than ~$90/mo. But I guess the A/C was drawing a **** -load more power than I thought. Average temps now are ~78 high, ~55 low. (Electric) Heater has been on full-time for about a month now.

Solar and air conditioning are a perfect compliment. When you need the air conditioning the most is when you haven the most solar. Congratulations on your system. Solar is one of the things that can actually make me optimistic about the future and that's not easy.