You're not buying Fieros in my market. Add in a few hundred bucks to transport one from there to here, plus Fieros down here don't have rust because it rarely snows here.
That's not what you said,
quote
What you originally said You couldn't even get a decent Fiero parts car for that price.
quote
The "price" posted by Ryan.Hess
Actual system cost: $680.
The Black Fiero (86 SE) we have been driving for 4+ years, I'll have to ask, but I think we gave $500 for her. (could have been 6)
Jezebel (85GT) is not only 100% rust free, except for some paint delamination she is almost in perfect shape, she was $500 bucks.
The 4.9 (86 SE)I drove home, yes it is a Bumperpad, and had some holes filled in the decklid, but again, no rust whatsoever. $600 bucks.
Not everything is better just because you paid more, I'm on the Missouri Arkansas line, it's easy to see because I followed the forum rules and put my location in my profile. We don't get a lot of snow here either, and we do not use salt on the roads. I have seen deals like these pop up across the country on the Forum, so I know it's not just here.
But hey, I appreciate you insinuating that my cars are a pile because I got them for less than what you expect to pay.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled elitism.
Brad
[This message has been edited by twofatguys (edited 03-18-2011).]
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10:50 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
I will be assembling my crude "solar troth" for some experimenting in june. gonna focus the mirrors on a brake line filled with brake fluid, and see what kind of temps I can get, and then push that into a stirling engine. I dont expect much out of the first cobbled together setup, other than gaining insight on how to "do it right".
as a taxpayer - I am more than happy to "chip in". one of the best uses my tax dollar has seen in a long long time. and, as a electric utility payer - same.
What if a person hooked the solar cells to a water pump that feeds into a large reservoir. (A pond, or similar.)
This can also be a large holding tank in a barn, or garage for the northern folks.
When the sun is out the water is pumped into the pond.
Water is then drained out whenever power is needed through a water wheel. When more power is needed, more water can be let out.
It would be safer than a large bank of batteries, and you would have fresh water to drink.
If one was in a mountainous area they could place the holding tank high up, and create a great pressure increase by bringing the water to lower elevations. The increased pressure would be "free" energy. (I know there is no such thing just saying you are multiplying the power)
Brad
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11:06 AM
OKflyboy Member
Posts: 6607 From: Not too far from Mexico Registered: Nov 2004
What if a person hooked the solar cells to a water pump that feeds into a large reservoir. (A pond, or similar.)
This can also be a large holding tank in a barn, or garage for the northern folks.
When the sun is out the water is pumped into the pond.
Water is then drained out whenever power is needed through a water wheel. When more power is needed, more water can be let out.
It would be safer than a large bank of batteries, and you would have fresh water to drink.
If one was in a mountainous area they could place the holding tank high up, and create a great pressure increase by bringing the water to lower elevations. The increased pressure would be "free" energy. (I know there is no such thing just saying you are multiplying the power)
Brad
Its called a "pumped storage hydroelectric system". Pacific Gas and Electric does this on a much larger scale at the Wishon Reservoir facility Near Shaver Lake. They pump water up to Lake Courtright from Wishon reservoir at night when there's a surplus of power being generated, then drain it back down through a hydro-electric plant during the day when extra power is needed. I'll see if I can find a link or something. They used to allow tours, and I toured it once with my Boy Scout troop back in the day, but since 9/11 no more tours.
Courtright Reservoir is a reservoir in Fresno County, California. The reservoir is at an elevation of 8,170 feet (2,490 m) in the Sierra National Forest, in the Sierra Nevada. The reservoir is formed by Courtright Dam on Helms Creek and has a capacity of 123,300 acre feet (152,000,000 m³). The dam is composed of rock-fill and is 315 feet (96 m) tall, measured from the crest to the original streambed. It was completed in 1958 and is owned by Pacific Gas and Electric. Its sole purpose is hydroelectricity production.
In addition to conventional hydroelectricity production, Courtright Reservoir also serves as the upper reservoir in a pumped storage hydroelectric system. Wishon Reservoir, a couple of miles downstream, is the lower reservoir. During times of peak demand for electricity, which is also when it is most expensive, water is drained from Courtright Reservoir, run through the 1,212 MW Helms Power Plant and empties into Wishon Reservoir. When demand and prices for electricity are low, water is pumped from Wishon Reservoir to Courtright Reservoir using the power plant's reversible turbines. Interestingly Helms Power Plant is 1,000 feet (300 m) underground in a chamber carved out of solid granite at the north end of Wishon Lake. It is similar to Southern California Edison's Eastwood Powerhouse near Shaver Lake, which is also a pumped-storage plant.
Courtright reservoir is a haven for weekend and outdoor enthusiasts seeking to camp, fish, hike, boat, swim, rock climb, and 4x4 among others. It is surrounded by unique domes of granite that are essentially in the center of the Sierra Batholith and are highly sought after by rock climbers from all around.
[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 03-18-2011).]
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11:08 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by twofatguys: What if a person hooked the solar cells to a water pump that feeds into a large reservoir. (A pond, or similar.)
This can also be a large holding tank in a barn, or garage for the northern folks.
When the sun is out the water is pumped into the pond.
Water is then drained out whenever power is needed through a water wheel. When more power is needed, more water can be let out.
It would be safer than a large bank of batteries, and you would have fresh water to drink.
If one was in a mountainous area they could place the holding tank high up, and create a great pressure increase by bringing the water to lower elevations. The increased pressure would be "free" energy. (I know there is no such thing just saying you are multiplying the power)
Brad
yup. I've posted something much like this a few time except using windmills to pump the water the raised water is stored energy no reason solar cant be used as well as wind. using wind to pump water is classic frontier tech.
Pacific Gas and Electric does this on a much larger scale at the Wishon Reservoir facility Near Shaver Lake.
quote
Originally posted by Pyrthian: yup. I've posted something much like this a few time except using windmills to pump the water the raised water is stored energy no reason solar cant be used as well as wind. using wind to pump water is classic frontier tech.
Wow, I must be smart, some sort of savant prolly.
Too bad I thought it was my original idea, I'da made millions... MILLIONS I TELL YOU!!
Brad ------------------ Keeping barbarianism and indecency around!
It's impossible to be educated and this poor, you wouldn't understand. It's possible that I'm just being a jerk to piss you off. Sure it's hard, but nothing worth doing is ever easy, is it?
[This message has been edited by twofatguys (edited 03-18-2011).]
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11:18 AM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Yes, unfortunately in FL there is a ridiculous amount of bureaucracy that takes place with solar installs.
PV panels must be UL listed. Inverters too, but that's obvious... System must be FSEC approved, which consists of a professional engineer signing off on your system$$ and submitting it to FSEC. The system must be installed by a licensed contractor. Permits, etc. It must be inspected a number of times. And then it gets connected.
I could build my own 2kw solar panel system that meets UL specs for about $1000.... but they're not allowed to be installed. The reasoning behind this of course is safety, but if I lived on a farm or something it would be really easy to be off the grid.
The Black Fiero (86 SE) we have been driving for 4+ years, I'll have to ask, but I think we gave $500 for her. (could have been 6)
Jezebel (85GT) is not only 100% rust free, except for some paint delamination she is almost in perfect shape, she was $500 bucks.
The 4.9 (86 SE)I drove home, yes it is a Bumperpad, and had some holes filled in the decklid, but again, no rust whatsoever. $600 bucks.
Not everything is better just because you paid more, I'm on the Missouri Arkansas line, it's easy to see because I followed the forum rules and put my location in my profile. We don't get a lot of snow here either, and we do not use salt on the roads. I have seen deals like these pop up across the country on the Forum, so I know it's not just here.
But hey, I appreciate you insinuating that my cars are a pile because I got them for less than what you expect to pay.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled elitism.
Brad
Saved...
Edit to add:
[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 03-18-2011).]
The Black Fiero (86 SE) we have been driving for 4+ years, I'll have to ask, but I think we gave $500 for her. (could have been 6)
Jezebel (85GT) is not only 100% rust free, except for some paint delamination she is almost in perfect shape, she was $500 bucks.
The 4.9 (86 SE)I drove home, yes it is a Bumperpad, and had some holes filled in the decklid, but again, no rust whatsoever. $600 bucks.
Not everything is better just because you paid more, I'm on the Missouri Arkansas line, it's easy to see because I followed the forum rules and put my location in my profile. We don't get a lot of snow here either, and we do not use salt on the roads. I have seen deals like these pop up across the country on the Forum, so I know it's not just here.
But hey, I appreciate you insinuating that my cars are a pile because I got them for less than what you expect to pay.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled elitism.
Brad
I actually took his post to more just say "Not where we are you can't find them!"
No elitism involved.
But, it's all subjective. People sometimes read my posts and think I'm a douche.
I actually took his post to more just say "Not where we are you can't find them!"
No elitism involved.
But, it's all subjective. People sometimes read my posts and think I'm a douche.
It was the "...I appreciate you insinuating that my cars are a pile..." bit that made me go , followed by the elitism remark which I'm not sure was aimed at me or at the original topic of this thread. I don't know what set him off, really don't care either, but what can you do?
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12:19 PM
Rallaster Member
Posts: 9105 From: Indy southside, IN Registered: Jul 2009
The state owes Floridians $52.7 million in unpaid solar energy rebates and has no immediate plan to honor its financial promise.
More Information:St. Petersburg Times More than 15,800 people await the rebates, which were dangled before homeowners and businesses to encourage greater investment in solar energy technologies such as solar-power water heaters and electric systems.
The state’s new fiscal year, which started in July, marks the second consecutive year the Florida Legislature has refused to fund the popular program.
Some people have been on the waiting list for years, said Travis Yelverton, deputy director of the Governor’s Energy Office.
Independent gubernatorial candidate Bud Chiles has made the state’s stalled renewable energy plan a campaign bulwark and flagged the unfunded rebates Monday as he toured Solar Source, a solar installation company in Largo.
He called the Gulf of Mexico oil disaster an alarm bell.
“Florida consumers are getting a much better sense that fossil fuels cost more than the $3 you put in at the pump,” said Chiles, who drives a Toyota Prius. “There is a real pressure mounting.”
The rebate program kicked off in 2006 but soon lost political capital as lawmakers looked to close billion-dollar budget gaps.
Homeowners and businesses could apply for rebates ranging from $500 for a solar water heater to $100,000 for a commercial roof system.
“Do I think they should be funded? Absolutely,” said Sen. Michael Bennett, R-Bradenton, who introduced renewable energy legislation in the past to mixed results. “We just don’t have any money.”
Bennett said solar companies that promised rebates to their customers also share some blame.
“They didn’t say, ’You’ll only get the rebate if (the money) doesn’t run out,’?” he said.
Environmental activists said they weren’t surprised by the program’s neglect, which they linked to the Republican-led Legislature’s unwillingness to promote new energy sources.
“The fact that there is no funding there demonstrates a complete lack of understanding by the leadership in the Legislature,” said Cathy Harrelson, a St. Petersburg activist who organized a Hands Across the Sand offshore oil drilling protest in St. Pete Beach in June.
“As I see it, the state of Florida has a contract with these people and they need to pony up.”
Chiles was the first gubernatorial candidate to outline an energy plan.
In June, he vowed to create a renewable energy loan fund and require utilities to set targets to conserve energy. He also called on Florida power companies to produce 20 percent of their electricity from renewable energy sources by 2020, a plan Gov. Charlie Crist touted early in his tenure, but could not get through the Legislature.
In Largo on Monday, Chiles lambasted the Legislature for paying deference to the state’s powerful energy companies. “I don’t know any industries that are more dinosaur-like,” he said.
“You guys are like the messiah to the clean energy industry,” said Wayne Wallace, president of Solar Source, before handing over a $50 campaign contribution and a promise to vote for Chiles.
Democrat Alex Sink proposed a similar energy plan last month that called for a “renewable portfolio standard,” which would require electric companies to use a certain amount of clean energy to fuel their power plants by a set date.
Last week Republican Bill McCollum unveiled his plan, which calls for letting the free market sort out “expensive” wind and solar energy sources, partnering with private business to develop electric plug-in vehicles and removing regulatory barriers to expedite biofuel production.
His primary rival, Rick Scott, has not detailed his energy ideas. Scott has said he does not believe in climate change. He supports offshore drilling and expanding nuclear power.
It was the "...I appreciate you insinuating that my cars are a pile..." bit that made me go , followed by the elitism remark which I'm not sure was aimed at me or at the original topic of this thread. I don't know what set him off, really don't care either, but what can you do?
Perhaps someday you will be able to comprehend it. And we already know you don't care.
What you can do is not act like a douche toward people that are just joking around, but I somehow doubt you can accomplish that.
Brad
------------------ Keeping barbarianism and indecency around! It's impossible to be educated and this poor, you wouldn't understand. It's possible that I'm just being a jerk to piss you off. Sure it's hard, but nothing worth doing is ever easy, is it?
[This message has been edited by twofatguys (edited 03-18-2011).]
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01:07 PM
TommyRocker Member
Posts: 2808 From: Woodstock, IL Registered: Dec 2009
Yes, unfortunately in FL there is a ridiculous amount of bureaucracy that takes place with solar installs.
PV panels must be UL listed. Inverters too, but that's obvious... System must be FSEC approved, which consists of a professional engineer signing off on your system$$ and submitting it to FSEC. The system must be installed by a licensed contractor. Permits, etc. It must be inspected a number of times. And then it gets connected.
I could build my own 2kw solar panel system that meets UL specs for about $1000.... but they're not allowed to be installed. The reasoning behind this of course is safety, but if I lived on a farm or something it would be really easy to be off the grid.
All of which strengthens the case *for* the free market, free market solutions and *against* bureaucracy.
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06:13 PM
Mar 20th, 2011
spark1 Member
Posts: 11159 From: Benton County, OR Registered: Dec 2002
"Solar panels are coming down dramatically in cost per watt. And as a result of that, the total amount of solar energy is growing, not linearly, but exponentially. It’s doubling every 2 years and has been for 20 years. And again, it’s a very smooth curve. There’s all these arguments, subsidies and political battles and companies going bankrupt, they’re raising billions of dollars, but behind all that chaos is this very smooth progression."
So how far away is solar from meeting 100% of the world's energy needs? Eight doublings, says Kurzweil, which will take just 16 years. And supply is not an issue either, he adds: "After we double eight more times and we’re meeting all of the world’s energy needs through solar, we’ll be using 1 part in 10,000 of the sunlight that falls on the earth. And we could put efficient solar farms on a few percent of the unused deserts of the world and meet all of our energy needs."
I wonder if he see's a future where the energy companies are using solar power, and the average citizen still cannot afford to get it (mainly because Government control forcing so much red tape and licensing that it's cost prohibitive), or where the average person has the power they need on their roof, and energy companies are a thing of the past.
Brad
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01:16 AM
Australian Member
Posts: 4701 From: Sydney Australia Registered: Sep 2004
I often wonder why the power companies haven't switched to 12/24volt and installed power inverters in every household.
Low voltage (AC or DC) is the worst choice for power transmission, because wire size is determined by current, not voltage. Perhaps even more important for utility power distribution, have you ever tried to get DC through a transformer?
quote
Originally posted by twofatguys:
Wasn't there an issue running DC over long distances?
DC is actually more efficient than AC for long-distance transmission. There are several long-haul segments in the U.S. grid that are DC. The technical and economic problems involve the conversion between AC and DC at each end. There are also significant problems unique to switching high-voltage, high-current DC. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...ltage_direct_current.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 03-20-2011).]
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10:24 AM
PFF
System Bot
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
I'm tellin' ya - solar panels on every home. If you "rented" them from the power company - they still get their money.
Or a net-net deal that involves installation companies, the government and power companies. You figure that power companies have to spend money to build new plants because of rising demand, and they pay for those plants from what they charge users (and possibly include government subsidies), so why not use the money to build new plants to put panels on roofs instead, and supplement it with reasonable government subsidies if needed? Paid for out of the cost of NOT having to build a new power plant.
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01:20 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by twofatguys: Won't work here. I have snow on my roof for 6 months out of the year.
That's really interesting.
I wonder if he see's a future where the energy companies are using solar power, and the average citizen still cannot afford to get it (mainly because Government control forcing so much red tape and licensing that it's cost prohibitive), or where the average person has the power they need on their roof, and energy companies are a thing of the past.
Brad
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02:35 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
I wonder if he see's a future where the energy companies are using solar power, and the average citizen still cannot afford to get it (mainly because Government control forcing so much red tape and licensing that it's cost prohibitive), or where the average person has the power they need on their roof, and energy companies are a thing of the past.
Brad
I'm voting for individual home-based power. But energy companies won't, rather can't, go away. Cities don't have enough rooftop space for their needs, they'll still need generation elsewhere, and the rest of us would like to have grid-supplied backup for cloudy weeks, and NIGHTS. Also to sell off our excess on sunny days. Somebody's got to build and maintain that grid. I can't see it going away.
I'm voting for individual home-based power. But energy companies won't, rather can't, go away. Cities don't have enough rooftop space for their needs, they'll still need generation elsewhere, and the rest of us would like to have grid-supplied backup for cloudy weeks, and NIGHTS. Also to sell off our excess on sunny days. Somebody's got to build and maintain that grid. I can't see it going away.
Good point. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe our local company will not purchase excess power, so my goal would then be to just not use them.
We still would have our monthly "privilege of having our service" fee of 25 dollars a month.
Brad
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06:47 PM
PFF
System Bot
May 8th, 2011
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Are you doing the install yourself, or does a the company do it?
I was thinking of building a solar power system a few panels at a time, as I have extra money to buy panels. Over time, I'd build up a system that would get me at or close to grid independence, if needed.
I will not be installing the panels as part of the Progress Energy contract. Wish I could, I'd save a boatload of money... I'm an electrical engineer but you have to be licensed...
I was mowing the yard today, and while stumbling over the snakes, and small animals I usually hit with the mower I got to thinking. I don't really have a good roof for a solar array. Only a few feet of roof is facing the correct direction. >_<
I would have to set the panels up at an angle, making them "stand out" amongst the other houses. I'll still do it later on, it just won't look as good as I think it should.
Brad
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11:32 PM
May 13th, 2011
Scottzilla79 Member
Posts: 2573 From: Chicago, IL Registered: Oct 2009
Usually economy of scale works for power production but maybe solar is different. Because it requires so much sq. footage it is probably not very practical to build a solar array farm that is not too far away from the consumers that you don't incur too much loss over transmission. Distributing panels to consumer's homes could be the solution. I do think the subsidies are one of those rich get richer deals though. You need to have a bit of capital to take advantage of the subsidies.
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12:18 AM
Jun 18th, 2011
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
