Planned Parenthood voted down by House of rep. I don't think that was a good idea to vote down. How does one go about finding out about this vote on Planned Parenthood?
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03:12 PM
PFF
System Bot
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 22754 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Planned Parenthood voted down by House of rep. I don't think that was a good idea to vote down. How does one go about finding out about this vote on Planned Parenthood?
How do you mean voted down, do you mean "defunded" or that the defunding attempt failed? I haven't seen the news about it yet.
The House just approved Rep. Mike Pence’s amendment to cut off funding to Planned Parenthood, checking off a hot-button social issue even as it set up a bigger showdown over defunding the health care law.
The vote was 240-185 with 11 Democrats voting for the amendment, and seven Republicans voting against. One member voted present. A group of Republicans on the floor applauded when the vote hit 218.
That amendment managed to suck up three hours of often emotional debate time Thursday night, which is a big part of the reason the health care law defunding votes got pushed into today.
Pence, of Indiana, touched off a vicious back-and-forth Thursday night in which Republicans insisted the organization is too aggressive about performing abortions and several Democrats charged that the GOP was waging a “war on women.”
Pence said the amendment captures a rough public consensus that they accept legal abortions, but don't want to pay for them.
He did get House Majority Leader Eric Cantor to weigh in on his side, declaring, “The time has come to respect the wishes of the majority of Americans who adamantly oppose using taxpayer dollars for abortions.”
Democratic Rep. Jerry Nadler called the amendment a “bill of attainder”- saying it was unconstitutional as such because the legislation was targeting a specific group.
“[An attainder is] a legislative enacted penalty, in this case no funding, directed at an identifiable person or organization to punish them for something. Article I Section 9 says ‘no bill of attainder or ex post facto should be passed.’ Fundamental foundation of constitutional law. If Planned Parenthood or anyone else is doing terrible things and ought to be punished, that’s up to the courts,” said the New York congressman.
A longtime anti-abortion crusader, Pence has three times previously tried to cut off legislative funding, called Title X, for any group that provides abortions.
The money cannot be used to pay for abortions, and Pence has not argued that Planned Parenthood has used the funds to do so.
But he argues that cutting off support for millions of women’s health clinics would cut off their ability to perform the procedure.
“We should end the day when the largest abortion provider is the largest recipient of [Title X] federal funding,” he said.
“What’s clear to me, if you follow the money, you can actually take the funding supports out of abortion. We then have a much better opportunity to move forward to be a society that says yes to life.”
Planned Parenthood estimates it received a quarter of the $317 million in Title X funds appropriated last year. They use the money for pelvic exams, breast exams, safer-sex counseling and basic infertility counseling, among other things.
Pence took his fight against Planned Parenthood to the next level after the release of a series of videos by the group Live Action –videos that they say show Planned Parenthood employees advising actors posing as pimps on information on how to get abortions, STD testing and birth control for their underage prostitutes.
Cantor said last night that Planned Parenthood had been caught “red-handed.”
Anti-abortion Democrat Stephen Lynch of Massachusetts said last night that in spite of his beliefs, he supports the organization.
“This is about the ability of Planned Parenthood to conduct women's health care, to offer services that are deeply needed in many communities where no other source of health care is available…. I don't have many friends in the Planned Parenthood community. They don't support me. I am pro-life. But I respect the good work that they do,” he said.
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06:13 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Are these Republican "right to lifers" the same people who also support capital punishment?
A quite obvious difference is that those facing the death penalty have committed a capital crime, have been tried and convicted, and have gone through the legal process. In other words, they are the ones responsible for their situation.
A quite obvious difference is that those facing the death penalty have committed a capital crime, have been tried and convicted, and have gone through the legal process. In other words, they are the ones responsible for their situation.
Not a fan of the Death Penalty... one person wrongly killed is one too many, and there have already been DNA exhonerations after a death row inmate has died. Cheaper to keep them alive, too.
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08:35 PM
GT86 Member
Posts: 5203 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2003
Not a fan of the Death Penalty... one person wrongly killed is one too many, and there have already been DNA exhonerations after a death row inmate has died. Cheaper to keep them alive, too.
The system isn't perfect, and no doubt there are people in prison who shouldn't be there. As technology advances, hopefully these types of things are reduced.
I'm not arguing for or against the death penalty or abortion, just pointing out a big difference between the two.
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08:38 PM
Cheever3000 Member
Posts: 12398 From: The Man from Tallahassee Registered: Aug 2001
The system isn't perfect, and no doubt there are people in prison who shouldn't be there. As technology advances, hopefully these types of things are reduced.
I'm not arguing for or against the death penalty or abortion, just pointing out a big difference between the two.
Agreed! Thats twice today you got me to agree with you. You are stern but fair.
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08:39 PM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
The left wants to kill it, but if it survives, then let others take care of it. The right wants it to live, and if it does, let the people who made the decision to drop their panties take care of it.
[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 02-22-2011).]
Planned Parenthood reaks of corrupts almost as much as Acorn. Glad they got their funding cut. I am sure pimps around the country will be very saddened to hear about the defunding of the group. Without them encouraging young girls how to become successful child prostitutes and providing business plans for their sexual predator pimps, I'm sure things will be much more difficult. These people don't give a **** about the people they are supposedly "helping", they just seem them as a paycheck and as young minds to brainwash with their socialist agenda.
Originally posted by Cheever3000: I guess you're not aware of the multitudes of people who want a baby and can't have one, and would love to adopt a healthy baby.
Thank you. We are out there waiting. Often ignored, or even better, told that we could simply take a special needs child which is not an option for us.
Brad
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08:57 PM
GT86 Member
Posts: 5203 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2003
The left wants to kill it, but if it survives, then let others take care of it. The right wants it to live, and if it does, let the people who made the decision to drop their take care of it.
I think this is an asinine statement. Nobody is "pro-abortion", they are pro-choice. Big difference. No one is advocating babies being killed just for the heck of it.."Hey everybody, lets go out and kill babies".. what a crock. Thats evil. Its also a convenient damning political tool for people who can conceive of no reason for abortion to exist because of their religious beliefs.
Pro Choice is advocacy for the availability for the procedure in cases of rape, incest, and imminent danger to the health of the mother. These are pregnancies that no one should be FORCED to carry out to term. Or is it okay for an 11 year old girl who was raped by her uncle to be made to carry that child? If so, you should be the one elected to tell her that.
Abortion should not be used as birth control. Legs should be crossed and abstinence observed. But that is not the only reason it happens.
Am I wrong?
Regardless, planned parenthood is also available for prenatal care, breast exams, and administration of birth control to regulate unhealthy or abnormal menstruation.. it is available for those who need that care but dont have enough $$$ to pay putrageous doctor bills. Thats where you go for those services if you are poor and have no insurance. This cutting of funding will hurt those services as well. Perhaps a compromise was in order? Wait, why would anyone in government do that? (/Sarcasm)
[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 02-22-2011).]
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09:12 PM
PFF
System Bot
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
Thank you. We are out there waiting. Often ignored, or even better, told that we could simply take a special needs child which is not an option for us.
Brad
Or there are millions of darling little Chinese girls that need adopting. Seams like every time I come back there are a few proud new parents on the flight. All the ones I talked to had the same story, got tired of the waiting and bull over here.
[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 02-22-2011).]
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09:13 PM
GT86 Member
Posts: 5203 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2003
I think this is an asinine statement. Nobody is "pro-abortion", they are pro-choice. Big difference. No one is advocating babies being killed just for the heck of it.."Hey everybody, lets go out and kill babies".. what a crock. Thats evil. Its also a convenient damning political tool for people who can conceive of no reason for abortion to exist because of their religious beliefs.
Pro Choice is advocacy for the availability for the procedure in cases of rape, incest, and imminent danger to the health of the mother. These are pregnancies that no one should be FORCED to carry out to term. Or is it okay for an 11 year old girl who was raped by her uncle to be made to carry that child? If so, you should be the one elected to tell her that.
Abortion should not be used as birth control. Legs should be crossed and abstinence observed. But that is not the only reason it happens.
Am I wrong?
Regardless, planned parenthood is also available for prenatal care, breast exams, and administration of birth control to regulate unhealthy or abnormal menstruation.. it is available for those who need that care but dont have enough $$$ to pay putrageous doctor bills. Thats where you go for those services if you are poor and have no insurance. This cutting of funding will hurt those services as well. Perhaps a compromise was in order? Wait, why would anyone in government do that? (/Sarcasm)
Well, the waters are a bit more muddied than that. Some Pro-Choice folks do feel it should be available as a form of birth control. Their view is that it's the mother's body, and she should be fit to do as she wants with her it. If it shouldn't be used as birth control, why not? Is it because it's killing? If so, then we would it be OK in cases or rape? The resulting fetus is still alive, regardless of the circumstances.
Again, I'm not arguing for or against it. But it's a complicated issue for me, and I'm torn. I agree with viewpoints from both sides, and I'll freely admit my opinions on the matter contradict each other at times.
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09:19 PM
MidEngineManiac Member
Posts: 29566 From: Some unacceptable view Registered: Feb 2007
Well, the waters are a bit more muddied than that. Some Pro-Choice folks do feel it should be available as a form of birth control. Their view is that it's the mother's body, and she should be fit to do as she wants with her it. If it shouldn't be used as birth control, why not? Is it because it's killing? If so, then we would it be OK in cases or rape? The resulting fetus is still alive, regardless of the circumstances.
Again, I'm not arguing for or against it. But it's a complicated issue for me, and I'm torn. I agree with viewpoints from both sides, and I'll freely admit my opinions on the matter contradict each other at times.
The same as most other issues in human society, its about power and control over another............the world is FULL of nutbars who arent happy being in charge of thier own lives, they need to rule others as well. Those kinds make a PERFECT case FOR abortion ....late-term abortion......like 20+ years after birth late-term-abortion
There are those who want power over the individual, then there are those of us who wont give power up. There is a good reason the words "frack you" were invented in the 1st place
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 02-22-2011).]
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09:29 PM
GT86 Member
Posts: 5203 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2003
A quite obvious difference is that those facing the death penalty have committed a capital crime, have been tried and convicted, and have gone through the legal process. In other words, they are the ones responsible for their situation.
But not always. Look at how many people facing the death penalty have been exonerated through DNA evidence. Some of them, unfortunately posthumously. In some cases, it was circumstantial evidence, or law inforcement bungling that contributed to a false conviction.
You can't have it both ways.
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09:38 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by tbone42: Regardless, planned parenthood is also available for prenatal care, breast exams, and administration of birth control to regulate unhealthy or abnormal menstruation.. it is available for those who need that care but dont have enough $$$ to pay putrageous doctor bills. Thats where you go for those services if you are poor and have no insurance.
Exactly. I know several people who go to PP because they have no insurance and can't afford a doctor's visit. They go to get routine exams and birth control on a sliding payment scale.
quote
Originally posted by Cheever3000: I guess you're not aware of the multitudes of people who want a baby and can't have one, and would love to adopt a healthy baby.
Then go adopt one. There are 115,000 waiting for a family. The sad part is the majority of those are probably over 4 years old, which makes them damn near untouchable. Everybody wants a baby.
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09:43 PM
GT86 Member
Posts: 5203 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2003
But not always. Look at how many people facing the death penalty have been exonerated through DNA evidence. Some of them, unfortunately posthumously. In some cases, it was circumstantial evidence, or law inforcement bungling that contributed to a false conviction.
You can't have it both ways.
As I said above, that's true. But even wrongly convicted people had a chance to defend themselves. I'm not trying to justify the fact that they were wrongly convicted, but abortion and the death penalty aren't really comparable.
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09:44 PM
Flamberge Member
Posts: 4268 From: Terra Sancta, TX Registered: Oct 2001
I know I'll regret stepping in this thread, but here goes:
I think many many many many government entities need to be defunded. Talking the topic down the prolife/prochoice path is not relevant (except that it is an easy target for republicans to go after, just like the military and defense spending is for democrats).
The key is whether or not it is the government's job to use our tax payer money (ours, not THEIRS) to pay for every little thing.
Yes, abortion by rape is tragic. So is multiple sclerosis, drunk driving fatalities and starving children. Where does the line get drawn in helping everybody that needs help and everyone that wants help? Should the government (i.e. YOU) pay for the nation's health care?
If you say yes, then Unplanned Parenthood should stay fully funded and continue to bloat up in both size and inefficiency like every other government entity.
If you say no then it should go away and let people and charities pay for those things.
The bottom line in my mind is that the government is vastly outgrown its usefulness. It started as a rowboat for the pond out back, and is now a supertanker that is 20 times longer than the pond and while the bottom of the hull is still wet, it's not doing what it was needed for in the first place. Let the citizens row, and not have to pay for a supertanker.
What would you do tomorrow if suddenly you paid 5% flat taxes and only on things you bought? No income tax, Ponzi/SSI/FICA, etc? Would the economy recover sometime next week after the influx of all the money? I'm guessing it would, and all the out of work government workers can go work in the newly thriving private sector. Just a thought.
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09:45 PM
MidEngineManiac Member
Posts: 29566 From: Some unacceptable view Registered: Feb 2007
Originally posted by ryan.hess: Everybody wants a baby.
Everybody needs a phyciatric evaluation !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Babies are nothing more than sheet-and-puke-and-noise-machines that dont shut the eff up or stop spewing for 2 fracking years !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I want them nowhere near me !!!!.......in fact, I am not entirely happy being in the same city as one !!!!!!!!!!!
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09:47 PM
GT86 Member
Posts: 5203 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2003
I know I'll regret stepping in this thread, but here goes:
I think many many many many government entities need to be defunded. Talking the topic down the prolife/prochoice path is not relevant (except that it is an easy target for republicans to go after, just like the military and defense spending is for democrats).
The key is whether or not it is the government's job to use our tax payer money (ours, not THEIRS) to pay for every little thing.
Yes, abortion by rape is tragic. So is multiple sclerosis, drunk driving fatalities and starving children. Where does the line get drawn in helping everybody that needs help and everyone that wants help? Should the government (i.e. YOU) pay for the nation's health care?
If you say yes, then Unplanned Parenthood should stay fully funded and continue to bloat up in both size and inefficiency like every other government entity.
If you say no then it should go away and let people and charities pay for those things.
The bottom line in my mind is that the government is vastly outgrown its usefulness. It started as a rowboat for the pond out back, and is now a supertanker that is 20 times longer than the pond and while the bottom of the hull is still wet, it's not doing what it was needed for in the first place. Let the citizens row, and not have to pay for a supertanker.
What would you do tomorrow if suddenly you paid 5% flat taxes and only on things you bought? No income tax, Ponzi/SSI/FICA, etc? Would the economy recover sometime next week after the influx of all the money? I'm guessing it would, and all the out of work government workers can go work in the newly thriving private sector. Just a thought.
Outstanding post!
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09:47 PM
PFF
System Bot
Patrick's Dad Member
Posts: 5154 From: Weymouth MA USA Registered: Feb 2000
... No one is advocating babies being killed just for the heck of it.."Hey everybody, lets go out and kill babies".. what a crock. Thats evil. Its also a convenient damning political tool for people who can conceive of no reason for abortion to exist because of their religious beliefs. ...
Am I wrong?
....
Some quotes from the Founder:
"The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."
"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don't want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."
"The undeniably feeble-minded should, indeed, not only be discouraged but prevented from propagating their kind."
"The marriage bed is the most degenerative influence in the social order..."
"[Our objective is] unlimited sexual gratification without the burden of unwanted children..."
If you read deeply enough, the "feeble-minded" and "unwanted" were primarily Jewish, black and Hispanic. So, what is PP really about?
"The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."
"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don't want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."
"The undeniably feeble-minded should, indeed, not only be discouraged but prevented from propagating their kind."
"The marriage bed is the most degenerative influence in the social order..."
"[Our objective is] unlimited sexual gratification without the burden of unwanted children..."
If you read deeply enough, the "feeble-minded" and "unwanted" were primarily Jewish, black and Hispanic. So, what is PP really about?
You are talking about statements that are in some cases over 70 years old. Do you believe the mission of any foundation or organization that existed back then has not changed, or is it possible that their mission changed with the times?
For example,
Our country was founded with the institution of slavery in place. And those who created the US gave lip service to anyone not being a white man as not being human or at least equal. Do we still believe in that? Or has things chaged? You can bring up old quotes, but do they still apply? No wrong answers, I am just curious if you think those are the missions of PP, or if they evolved into something else, like our country did?
Personally, I think their prenatal and various womens health services for the poor are too valuable to completely cut funding on, regardless of how one feels about abortion. Thats just my opinion, tho. Still if planned parenthood has to go, fine. It will cost the governemnet one way or the other when those same poor people have to have this health care and then file bankruptcy on their medical bills. And they will.
[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 02-22-2011).]
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10:12 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35467 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
The problem with any government program is that there is room for abuse. "Republicans insisted the organization is too aggressive about performing abortions" probably because of their view on late term abortions and partial birth abortions. "Democrats charged that the GOP was waging a “war on women.” This probably because they say it's a woman's right to decide when she wants one. Abortions are being performed late into the third trimester. To give some contrast to this, some babies have been delivered at this stage and most doctors would fight to keep them alive, even though they are premature in birth. The right says that they accept legal abortions, but don't want to pay for them. “The time has come to respect the wishes of the majority of Americans who adamantly oppose using taxpayer dollars for abortions.” Planned Parenthood estimates it received a quarter of the $317 million in Title X funds appropriated last year. Pence argues “We should end the day when the largest abortion provider is the largest recipient of [Title X] federal funding,”. “What’s clear to me, if you follow the money, you can actually take the funding supports out of abortion. We then have a much better opportunity to move forward to be a society that says yes to life.” Pence took his fight against Planned Parenthood to the next level after the release of a series of videos by the group Live Action that they say show Planned Parenthood employees advising actors posing as pimps on information on how to get abortions, STD testing and birth control for their underage prostitutes. Planned Parenthood had been caught “red-handed.” It sounds to me like some are using abortion as a form of birth control. This is not very ethical in my opinion, especially when there are several forns of contraception available to men and women that avoid pregnancy inthe first place.
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10:52 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
The problem with any government program is that there is room for abuse. "Republicans insisted the organization is too aggressive about performing abortions" probably because of their view on late term abortions and partial birth abortions. "Democrats charged that the GOP was waging a “war on women.” This probably because they say it's a woman's right to decide when she wants one. Abortions are being performed late into the third trimester. To give some contrast to this, some babies have been delivered at this stage and most doctors would fight to keep them alive, even though they are premature in birth. The right says that they accept legal abortions, but don't want to pay for them. “The time has come to respect the wishes of the majority of Americans who adamantly oppose using taxpayer dollars for abortions.” Planned Parenthood estimates it received a quarter of the $317 million in Title X funds appropriated last year. Pence argues “We should end the day when the largest abortion provider is the largest recipient of [Title X] federal funding,”. “What’s clear to me, if you follow the money, you can actually take the funding supports out of abortion. We then have a much better opportunity to move forward to be a society that says yes to life.” Pence took his fight against Planned Parenthood to the next level after the release of a series of videos by the group Live Action that they say show Planned Parenthood employees advising actors posing as pimps on information on how to get abortions, STD testing and birth control for their underage prostitutes. Planned Parenthood had been caught “red-handed.” It sounds to me like some are using abortion as a form of birth control. This is not very ethical in my opinion, especially when there are several forns of contraception available to men and women that avoid pregnancy inthe first place.
the american tali-ban [GOP] and their sex hangups strike again
everytime the rightwing has a chance to do the correct thing the religious nuts start screaming about abortions WHERE IS THE FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY abortion is far cheaper then child welfare programs
the right claims to be about cutting government spending THIS SHOWS CLEARLY RELIGION IS MORE IMPORTANT THEN SOUND FINICAL PLANNING or damm the cost you must respect our fairytails
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12:43 AM
GT86 Member
Posts: 5203 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2003
the american tali-ban [GOP] and their sex hangups strike again
everytime the rightwing has a chance to do the correct thing the religious nuts start screaming about abortions WHERE IS THE FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY abortion is far cheaper then child welfare programs
the right claims to be about cutting government spending THIS SHOWS CLEARLY RELIGION IS MORE IMPORTANT THEN SOUND FINICAL PLANNING or damm the cost you must respect our fairytails
So abortion is better because it's cheaper? Financial concerns are more important than unborn children? That sounds an awful lot like what you complain about, and what you imagine conservatives believe.
Planned Parenthood reaks of corrupts almost as much as Acorn. Glad they got their funding cut. I am sure pimps around the country will be very saddened to hear about the defunding of the group. Without them encouraging young girls how to become successful child prostitutes and providing business plans for their sexual predator pimps, I'm sure things will be much more difficult. These people don't give a **** about the people they are supposedly "helping", they just seem them as a paycheck and as young minds to brainwash with their socialist agenda.
The above seems to be correct in my opinion. I don't like that ^ happening.
quote
Originally posted by Flamberge:
I know I'll regret stepping in this thread, but here goes:
I think many many many many government entities need to be defunded. Talking the topic down the prolife/prochoice path is not relevant (except that it is an easy target for republicans to go after, just like the military and defense spending is for democrats).
The key is whether or not it is the government's job to use our tax payer money (ours, not THEIRS) to pay for every little thing.
Yes, abortion by rape is tragic. So is multiple sclerosis, drunk driving fatalities and starving children. Where does the line get drawn in helping everybody that needs help and everyone that wants help? Should the government (i.e. YOU) pay for the nation's health care?
If you say yes, then Unplanned Parenthood should stay fully funded and continue to bloat up in both size and inefficiency like every other government entity.
If you say no then it should go away and let people and charities pay for those things.
The bottom line in my mind is that the government is vastly outgrown its usefulness. It started as a rowboat for the pond out back, and is now a supertanker that is 20 times longer than the pond and while the bottom of the hull is still wet, it's not doing what it was needed for in the first place. Let the citizens row, and not have to pay for a supertanker.
What would you do tomorrow if suddenly you paid 5% flat taxes and only on things you bought? No income tax, Ponzi/SSI/FICA, etc? Would the economy recover sometime next week after the influx of all the money? I'm guessing it would, and all the out of work government workers can go work in the newly thriving private sector. Just a thought.
OK throw some black and white on it. This always gets done and it presents a narrow way to look at the issue (simply put business/politics as usual) Thanks for the post you help me make my point. No regrets here
quote
Originally posted by avengador1:
The problem with any government program is that there is room for abuse. "Republicans insisted the organization is too aggressive about performing abortions" probably because of their view on late term abortions and partial birth abortions. "Democrats charged that the GOP was waging a “war on women.” This probably because they say it's a woman's right to decide when she wants one. Abortions are being performed late into the third trimester. To give some contrast to this, some babies have been delivered at this stage and most doctors would fight to keep them alive, even though they are premature in birth. The right says that they accept legal abortions, but don't want to pay for them. “The time has come to respect the wishes of the majority of Americans who adamantly oppose using taxpayer dollars for abortions.” Planned Parenthood estimates it received a quarter of the $317 million in Title X funds appropriated last year. Pence argues “We should end the day when the largest abortion provider is the largest recipient of [Title X] federal funding,”. “What’s clear to me, if you follow the money, you can actually take the funding supports out of abortion. We then have a much better opportunity to move forward to be a society that says yes to life.” Pence took his fight against Planned Parenthood to the next level after the release of a series of videos by the group Live Action that they say show Planned Parenthood employees advising actors posing as pimps on information on how to get abortions, STD testing and birth control for their underage prostitutes. Planned Parenthood had been caught “red-handed.” It sounds to me like some are using abortion as a form of birth control. This is not very ethical in my opinion, especially when there are several forns of contraception available to men and women that avoid pregnancy inthe first place.
You point out a fact and thanks for the elaboration. Thanks all for the responses.
The above bold quotes should help make the point I want all to see. I believe the idea of Planned Parenthood is a good thing however the program "Planned Parenthood" I believe has gone astray from the basic idea and help needed. I'm not arguing for or against the right to choose. Yes I have an opinion but No I do not want to apply my opinion on this issue. (Something politicians should do more of) I want to apply the laws that are already in place to repair the damage done to the program. Why can't we have that option??
Why can't we use the program to bust the ones abusing it? In this way of correcting the problem all could see the government is not to be abused or consequences WILL BE Applied. Let’s not cut our nose off to spite our face. Send in the auditors investigator undercover police and monitor the business's performing the duties of this program. Stop the abuse of the program!! In this way of correcting a particular problem with a program many other problems surrounding the program could be solved.
I mean look folks we have set ourselves up the perfect place to fix something. We have the bait of a government program to lure in problems but we don't have the guts to address them. Are we gonna let "business/politics as usual" stand in the way of fixing what needs to be addressed?? We have this opportunity starring at us and we just want to vote it away. Come On let’s put on the glasses and get to work.
Defunding the PP program will not stop the pimps. Defunding the PP program will not stop the abuse of government programs. Defunding the PP program will send a message of "business/politics as usual" that government programs can be abused till the funding is cut with no consequences to the laws that have been broken.
I want folks to think in different terms than what has been applied and does not work. This is a "No Brainer"-- don't keep doing the same things we have been doing and expect different results. Find the opportunities that are presenting themselves to us and take advantage of it to our benefit!!
Or there are millions of darling little Chinese girls that need adopting. Seams like every time I come back there are a few proud new parents on the flight. All the ones I talked to had the same story, got tired of the waiting and bull over here.
Adopting the Chinese babies is a great option, but still high dollar. Unfortunately high dollar is out of our price range.
Brad
Edit: just checked, and dollar is out of our price range as well. We got the broke part down, now all we need is kids.
[This message has been edited by twofatguys (edited 02-23-2011).]
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11:19 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by ray b: the american tali-ban [GOP] and their sex hangups strike again
everytime the rightwing has a chance to do the correct thing the religious nuts start screaming about abortions WHERE IS THE FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY abortion is far cheaper then child welfare programs
the right claims to be about cutting government spending THIS SHOWS CLEARLY RELIGION IS MORE IMPORTANT THEN SOUND FINICAL PLANNING or damm the cost you must respect our fairytails
....late-term abortion......like 20+ years after birth late-term-abortion 
