MADISON, Wis. — The Wisconsin Senate adjourned for the day after minority Democrats blocked an attempt by Republicans to vote on an anti-union bill by leaving the state.
What's at stake in Wisconsin
What bill would do 1) Eliminate collective bargaining rights for most public workers. So while unions still could represent those workers, they would not be able to seek pay increases above those pegged to the Consumer Price Index unless approved by a public referendum.
2) Unions also could not force employees to pay dues and would have to hold annual votes to stay organized.
3) Local police, firefighters and state troopers would retain their collective bargaining rights.
4) Public workers would have to pay half the costs of their pensions and at least 12.6 percent of their health care coverage. That represents an average of 8 percent increase in state employees' share of pension and health care costs.
In exchange, public employees were promised no furloughs or layoffs. Gov. Scott Walker has threatened to lay off up to 6,000 state workers if the measure does not pass.
Estimated savings $30 million by July 1 and $300 million over the next two years to address a $3.6 billion budget shortfall.
Background The proposal marks a dramatic shift for Wisconsin, which in 1959 was the first to pass a comprehensive collective bargaining law for public employees and was the birthplace of the national union representing all non-federal public employees.
When voters last year elected Gov. Walker, an outspoken conservative, along with GOP majorities in both legislative chambers, it set the stage for a dramatic reversal of the state's labor history.
National significance New Republican governors and legislatures in other states have proposed cutting back on public employee costs to reduce budget shortfalls, but Wisconsin's move appears to be the earliest and most extensive.
Source: Associated Press and Reuters .As some 25,000 protesters filled the Capitol for a third day, the 14 Democrats disappeared around midday, just as the Senate was about to begin debating the measure, which would eliminate collective bargaining for most public employees.
They were not in their offices, and aides said they did not know where any of them had gone. Hours later, one member of the group told The Associated Press that they had all left Wisconsin.
"The plan is to try and slow this down because it's an extreme piece of legislation that's tearing this state apart," Sen. Jon Erpenbach said in a telephone interview.
He refused to say where he was, but WTMJ later reported that they had fled to a hotel in Rockford, Ill.
Democrats hoped Republican Gov. Scott Walker and GOP lawmakers would consider revisions to the bill.
Walker, who took office just last month, called on Democrats to return out of respect for the democratic process and the institution of the Legislature.
"Their actions by leaving the state and hiding from voting are disrespectful to the hundreds of thousands of public employees who showed up to work today and the millions of taxpayers they represent," Walker said, adding that he expected the Democrats would return in a day or two.
Republicans hold a 19-14 majority in the Senate, but they need at least one Democrat to be present before voting on the bill.
Other lawmakers who fled sent messages over Twitter and issued written statements, but did not disclose their location. Erpenbach said they planned to gather in the same place later Thursday.
In response to a question of where she was, Sen. Lena Taylor sent a tweet saying she was "doing the people's business. Power to the PEOPLE."
As Republicans tried to begin Senate business Thursday, observers in the gallery screamed "Freedom! Democracy! Unions!" Opponents cheered when a legislative leader announced there were not enough senators present to proceed.
The sergeant-at-arms immediately began looking for the missing lawmakers. If he cannot find them, he's authorized to seek help, including potentially contacting police.
Senate rules and the state constitution say absent members can be compelled to appear, but it does not say how.
"Today they checked out, and I'm not sure where they're at," Republican Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald said. "This is the ultimate shutdown, what we're seeing today."
Elsewhere in the Statehouse, Democrats showed up in the state Assembly chamber wearing orange T-shirts that proclaimed their support for working families.
After a routine roll call, Democrats who were leaving the chamber exchanged high-fives with protesters, who cried "thank you" as they walked by. The protesters unleashed venomous boos and screams at Republicans.
Thursday's events were reminiscent of a 2003 dispute in Texas, where Democrats twice fled the state to prevent adoption of a redistricting bill designed to give Republicans more seats in Congress. The bill passed a few months later.
The drama in Wisconsin unfolded in a jam-packed Capitol. Madison police and the State Department of Public Instruction estimated the crowd at 25,000 protesters, the largest number yet.
Demonstrators stood shoulder-to-shoulder in the building's hallways, sat cross-legged across the floor and made it difficult to move from room to room.
Protesters clogged the hallway outside the Senate chamber beating on drums, holding signs deriding Walker and pleading for lawmakers to kill the bill. Some others even demonstrated outside the lawmakers' homes.
Hundreds of teachers called in sick, forcing a number of school districts to cancel classes. Madison schools, the state's second-largest district, with 24,000 students, closed for a second day.
Thousands more people, many of them students from the nearby University of Wisconsin, slept in the rotunda for a second night.
Video: Search for wayward Wisconsin lawmakers
"We are all willing to come to the table, we've have all been willing from day one," said Madison teacher Rita Miller. "But you can't take A, B, C, D and everything we've worked for in one fell swoop."
In addition to eliminating collective-bargaining rights, the legislation also would make public workers pay half the costs of their pensions and at least 12.6 percent of their health care coverage. Their share of pension and health care costs would go up by an average of 8 percent — increases Walker calls "modest" compared with those in the private sector.
Republican leaders said they expected Wisconsin residents would be pleased with the savings the bill would achieve — $30 million by July 1 and $300 million over the next two years to address a $3.6 billion budget shortfall.
"I think the taxpayers will support this idea," Fitzgerald said.
Unions still could represent workers, but could not seek pay increases above those pegged to the Consumer Price Index unless approved by a public referendum. Unions also could not force employees to pay dues and would have to hold annual votes to stay organized.
In exchange for bearing more costs and losing bargaining leverage, public employees were promised no furloughs or layoffs. Walker has threatened to order layoffs of up to 6,000 state workers if the measure does not pass.
I guess they don't like the shoe being on the other foot.
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09:35 PM
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texasfiero Member
Posts: 4674 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: Jun 2003
When Republicans can't overcome a majority vote on a bill they don't want, they filibuster. (or threaten to) When Democrats can't overcome a majority vote on a bill they don't want, they throw a tantrum, take their ball and go home.
The next bill the WI Senate needs to bring up is to remove the requirement to have 1 of each party present to call a vote.
Texas called it's runaway legislators "killer bees". Do what Texas' Lt Gov did--issue an arrest warrant and order the state troopers to bring them back to their jobs. (Didn't work in Texas, but they sure tried)
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11:11 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Texas called it's runaway legislators "killer bees". Do what Texas' Lt Gov did--issue an arrest warrant and order the state troopers to bring them back to their jobs. (Didn't work in Texas, but they sure tried)
If there was an arrest warrant issued, if they couldn't be found, I would have had every single one of them arrested and booked into jail when they did return. None of this, "oh, you're back. Well, forget that warrant, then."
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11:13 PM
Feb 18th, 2011
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3141 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
Texas called it's runaway legislators "killer bees". Do what Texas' Lt Gov did--issue an arrest warrant and order the state troopers to bring them back to their jobs. (Didn't work in Texas, but they sure tried)
I was thinking Walker should start firing 100 random union hacks an hour until they return to the capitol. The beatings will continue until morale improves !
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12:07 AM
texasfiero Member
Posts: 4674 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: Jun 2003
I was thinking Walker should start firing 100 random union hacks an hour until they return to the capitol. The beatings will continue until morale improves !
The way I see it, every one of the people that are "protesting" are not doing their jobs, and therefore hurting the State more. I think it's funny that 10,000+ of them will lose their jobs if the vote does not go through, yet, they are worried about "losing their voice". Don't they realize that the unemployed have no chance of a voice at all?
Brad
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02:01 AM
Rodney Member
Posts: 4715 From: Caledonia, WI USA Registered: Feb 2000
One example is the typical Milwaukee county worker (example: one who plows roads, maintains equipment etc) make like $30 per hour with huge benefits, vacation time, sick days and huge pensions and lifetime medical coverage etc. More and more non government (private sector) people are supporting these high paid government employees on salaries/pay at half that rate or less with fewer benefits etc. How did things get so out of hand?
Rodney
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06:02 AM
jimbolaya Member
Posts: 10652 From: Virginia Beach, Virginia Registered: Feb 2007
One example is the typical Milwaukee county worker (example: one who plows roads, maintains equipment etc) make like $30 per hour with huge benefits, vacation time, sick days and huge pensions and lifetime medical coverage etc. More and more non government (private sector) people are supporting these high paid government employees on salaries/pay at half that rate or less with fewer benefits etc. How did things get so out of hand?
Rodney
Rodney, Things got out of hand because elected leaders bought votes by taking care of special interest groups and failing to execute their sworn duty to serve the people. Yeah, unions are somewhat responsible but, the real failure was at the leadership level both elected and union.
Unfortunately, we're starting to look more and more like Greece and that ain't good.
One example is the typical Milwaukee county worker (example: one who plows roads, maintains equipment etc) make like $30 per hour with huge benefits, vacation time, sick days and huge pensions and lifetime medical coverage etc. More and more non government (private sector) people are supporting these high paid government employees on salaries/pay at half that rate or less with fewer benefits etc. How did things get so out of hand?
Rodney
I believe they qualify for a 80% pension if they have enough years in. That means they will make $24/hour (40 hours/week) in retirement. More than maybe 80% of the working class people in Milwaukee county that still work everyday and that qualify for little or no pension when they retire.
Rodney
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08:21 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 22759 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Texas called it's runaway legislators "killer bees". Do what Texas' Lt Gov did--issue an arrest warrant and order the state troopers to bring them back to their jobs. (Didn't work in Texas, but they sure tried)
I was watching the news last night, and the Governor is aware of that option... he said he hasn't taken it off the table yet, but wants to wait for the Democrats to do the right thing first...
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:
One example is the typical Milwaukee county worker (example: one who plows roads, maintains equipment etc) make like $30 per hour with huge benefits, vacation time, sick days and huge pensions and lifetime medical coverage etc. More and more non government (private sector) people are supporting these high paid government employees on salaries/pay at half that rate or less with fewer benefits etc. How did things get so out of hand?
Rodney
Well... unions are corporations too. Their main goal is to make money, their second priority is for their workers. The union corporations makes more money by raising worker's dues. They can raise worker's dues when they are justified to do so. They get this justification by increasing worker's benefits.
Unions in the public sector see the taxpayer funded organizations as a bottomless pit of money. They see the money as always being increasingly available as long as they are willing to negotiate more for it.
President Barack Obama described Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker’s efforts to cut state government spending as “an assault on unions” on Thursday.
Walker’s plan, advanced by the state legislature’s budget committee Wednesday night, would eliminate almost all collective bargaining rights for public sector unions and force workers to pay more into their pension accounts. Public employees would also have to pick up more of their health-care costs, and wage increases would be tied to the Consumer Price Index, although unions will still have the right to negotiate over salary. Police, firefighters and state troopers are exempted by the measure.
Although he acknowledged that budget shortfalls are a serious issue affecting the entire nation, the president also criticized Walker’s hard-line stance on the issue. “Some of what I’ve heard coming out of Wisconsin, where they’re just making it harder for public employees to collectively bargain generally, seems like more of an assault on unions,” Obama told Wisconsin television station WTMJ in an interview.
He continued: “I think everybody’s got to make some adjustments, but I think it’s also important to recognize that public employees make enormous contributions to our states and our citizens.”
An estimated crowd of 10,000 public sector union members crowded Wisconsin’s Capitol on Wednesday, filling the statehouse and chanting demands to “Recall Walker.” About 40 percent of Madison’s public school teachers called in sick to attend the protest, forcing the district’s administrators to cancel all classes. (Read more about the protests here.)
During the next two years, Wisconsin’s budget is expected to grow to more than $3.6 billion, and Walker is insistent that a new agreement with public sector unions is necessary to save the state from fiscal calamity. “I’m just trying to balance my budget,” he told the New York Times. “To those who say why didn’t I negotiate on this? I don’t have anything to negotiate with. We don’t have anything to give. Like practically every other state in the country, we’re broke. And it’s time to pay up.”
Walker, who was elected in a GOP sweep of state elections last November, says that his plan will prevent 6,000 state employee layoffs if passed.
If their options are a little more self responsibility or getting laid off, which do you think they will pick?
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09:54 AM
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3141 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
When Republicans can't overcome a majority vote on a bill they don't want, they filibuster. (or threaten to) When Democrats can't overcome a majority vote on a bill they don't want, they throw a tantrum, take their ball and go home.
I agree that people are NOT very good at defeat. Loosing, and not having a voice hurts and people don't know how to control themselves. They need to remove those looser loopholes and do like the NFL for the winners, "Penalize for excessive celebration"
quote
The next bill the WI Senate needs to bring up is to remove the requirement to have 1 of each party present to call a vote.
Why is that a requirement anyway?
I think the policy is pretty good for the most part except for excluding the other side.
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11:21 AM
nosrac Member
Posts: 3520 From: Euless, TX, US Registered: Jan 2005
Originally posted by twofatguys: The way I see it, every one of the people that are "protesting" are not doing their jobs, and therefore hurting the State more.
Betcha they'll all turn in timesheets for their hard day of work protesting, too, and expect to get paid for it. LOL
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11:37 AM
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3141 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
Wisconsin GOP Gov. Scott Walker Thursday told Fox News he is personally appealing to Democratic state lawmakers – who fled the state to circumvent voting on a budget bill that would curb union rights – to return and participate in the legitimate process, or law enforcement might again “seek them out.”
The governor is trying to reduce a $3.6 billion budget deficit without raising taxes. The state has been rocked by massive demonstrations, and the walkout of the 14 state senators, in protest of legislation that would strip teachers and other public employees of most of their collective bargaining rights and cut their benefits.
“They’re hiding out in another state. You know, unlike the vast majority of state and local government employees, most of those employees – 300,000 – showed up for work today,” Walker told Fox News’ Greta Van Susteren in a telephone interview. “Unlike those around the Capitol, and unlike those 14 state senators, Democrats, who decided to hide out, apparently down in Rockford, Illinois … They’re hiding out in hopes that somehow that will test the resolve.
“If anything, I think it’s made the Republicans in the Assembly and Senate stronger. They’re not going to be bullied, they’re not going to be intimidated,” he said. “I’ve said all along: The thousands of people who are storming the Capitol have a right to be heard. But I’m not going to let them overshadow the voices of the millions of taxpayers in the state of Wisconsin who deserve to be heard, as well.”
Van Susteren asked if the senators have indicated they are coming back, or will it become a standoff to see “who cries uncle first.”
“Well, I think the bottom line is we're making an appeal for the senators to come and do their job. That, if they talk about democracy, democracy doesn't come by hiding out in another state, avoiding any real debate about a measure,” Walker said. “They should come to the Senate.
“I've made a personal appeal to all the senators to come back, do their job, to take as much time as they want to debate, to offer as many amendments as they want, but to not hide out down in Illinois as a way of trying to not deal with this,” he continued. “We should have a right to have a vote on it. We're going to push this.
“Senate rules allow … to have law enforcement go out and seek them out,” Walker said, adding he hopes the situation doesn’t deteriorate that far, as “That would be ridiculous.”
The simple fact is that we cannot, in any state or in DC, continue to guarantee benefits and jobs to people in the public sector. We cannot continue to borrow money to pay current expenses. It doesn't work for individuals; why do we think it will work for a government? We can all share the sacrifice now, or we can all face the depression to come. But since fiscal responsibility is a function of moral responsibility, and the left has told us for years that there is no such thing, we can see where we are headed.
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05:09 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35467 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has fired back at President Barack Obama for meddling in his state government’s ongoing battle with public sector unions.
On Thursday, Obama accused Republican Walker of unleashing an "assault" on unions in pushing emergency legislation that would nullify collective-bargaining agreements affecting most public employees. Gov. Scott Walker's budget plan has drawn thousands of protesters, pro and con. (Getty) On Friday morning, Walker told Fox News: “I think we’re focusing on balancing our budget. It would be wise for the president and others in Washington to focus on balancing their budget, which they are a long ways from doing.”
The White House political operation, Organizing for America, got involved in the Wisconsin dispute on Monday.
And the president's political machine worked closely with state and national union officials to get thousands of protesters to gather in Madison, the state capital, on Thursday, The Washington Post reported.
But Walker insisted: “We’re not going to be intimidated by people coming in from outside of Wisconsin trying to tell us what we need to do to balance our budget.
“The bottom line is, we got elected to do a job.”
Under the plan proposed by Walker, who took office six weeks ago, most public workers — excluding police, firefighters and state troopers — would have to pay half of their pension costs and at least 12 percent of their healthcare costs. They would lose bargaining rights for anything other than pay.
Walker maintains that the measure would save $300 million over the next two years to help close a $3.6 billion budget gap.
The problem that Governor Walker has is that he will need to make even bigger cuts. Saving $300 Million is just a drop in the bucket when they have a budget gap of $3.6 Billion. People need to learn how to pay for their own expenses instead of expecting government to fund it.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 02-18-2011).]
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08:52 PM
Cheever3000 Member
Posts: 12398 From: The Man from Tallahassee Registered: Aug 2001
And the president's political machine worked closely with state and national union officials to get thousands of protesters to gather in Madison, the state capital, on Thursday, The Washington Post reported.
So much of the crowd we're seeing on tv might not even be people who live in that state?
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09:10 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35467 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
The fate of a contentious anti-union bill in Wisconsin was hanging in the balance Friday as Senate Republicans called in the state police to capture fugitive Democratic lawmakers who fled the state in protest, and who appear in no hurry to return.
Democratic state Sen. Jon Erpenbach who is staying at a Chicago hotel, said that he and his 13 fellow Democrats could stay out of Wisconsin for days or even weeks. They have been missing from the Capitol for a day and a half.
Republican Gov. Scott Walker dispatched two state troopers to Democratic leader Mark Miller's home in Montana at the request of Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald.
Senate Sergeant-At-Arms Ted Blazel said troopers knocked on Miller's door and rang his doorbell, but no one answered.
The Wisconsin Constitution prohibits police from arresting state lawmakers while the Legislature is in session, except in cases of felonies, breaches of the peace or treason. Fitzgerald said he's not looking to have Miller arrested, but he wants to send a signal about the circumstances at the Capitol.
Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker on Friday fired back at President Obama who has accused the Republican governor of unleashing "an assault" on unions by pressing legislation that would end collective bargaining rights for public employees and sharply increase their health care and pension payments. (AP)
Meanwhile, an independent state representative may play a critical role in whether the Assembly is able to vote on the bill that would end collective bargaining rights for unionized public employees.
Republicans have 57 seats in the Assembly but 58 lawmakers must be present in order for them to take up the bill that all 38 Democrats are united against. Rep. Bob Ziegelbauer of Manitowoc is the Assembly's lone independent and could be that 58th person Republicans need.
Ziegelbauer told The Associated Press that he wants to meet with Republican leaders to discuss a possible compromise. He says he hopes to meet with leaders later Friday to discuss possible changes to the bill. He wouldn't say what the changes were.
As it's written now, the bill would force public workers to pay half the costs of their pensions and at least 12.6 percent of their health care coverage. It's projected to save the state $300 million over the next two years to tackle a $3.6 billion budget shortfall.
President Obama joined the raging budget battle on Wednesday, accusing Walker of unleashing "an assault" on unions by pressing the cost-saving legislation.
"Some of what I've heard coming out of Wisconsin, where you're just making it harder for public employees to collectively bargain generally seems like more of an assault on unions," Obama said in a White House interview with WTMJ-TV. "And I think it's very important for us to understand that public employees, they're our neighbors, they're our friends."
"I think everybody's got to make some adjustments, but I think it's also important to recognize that public employees make enormous contributions to our states and our citizens," he continued.
But Walker fired back on Friday.
"I think we're focused on balancing our budget. It would be wise for the president and others in Washington to focus on balancing their budget, which they're a long ways from doing," Walker told Fox News.
Walker said the demands on public employees are "modest" compared with those in the private sector, and are meant to prevent a shutdown, which could result in 6,000 state workers not getting paid.
"We're at a point of crisis," the governor said, adding that he would call out the National Guard if needed to keep state operations, including prisons, running.
Meanwhile, massive protests at the state Capitol entered a fourth day as demonstrators vowed to stay as long as was needed to get the concessions they want.
"Hell no, we won't go!" they chanted inside the Capitol as they banged on drums, sat cross-legged in the halls and waved signs comparing Walker to former Egyptian leader Hosni Mubarak.
Thousands of teachers have joined the protests by calling in sick, forcing school districts -- including the state's largest, in Milwaukee -- to cancel classes.
Outside the Capitol, demonstrators marched in a procession led by Jesse Jackson, who said workers "should be at the table full-strength to solve the problem."
The governor "should not crush them to solve the problem. The labor-business-government is the balancing wheel. If you crush labor, there is no balance."
Republicans who swept into power in state capitols this year with promises to cut spending and bolster the business climate now are beginning to usher in a new era of labor relations that could result in the largest reduction of power in decades for public employee unions.
But as massive public protests and legislative boycotts in Wisconsin this week have shown, the Republican charge can be fraught with risk and unpredictable turns as politicians try to transform campaign ideas into action.
The confrontation comes as organized labor is reeling from a steady loss of members in the private sector. The public sector, with about 7.6 million members, now account for the majority of workers on union rolls, according to the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Labor plans to spend large amounts of money on battles in Florida, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, Ohio, Missouri, New Hampshire, Maine, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Unions see their goal as not just playing defense -- as opponents chip away at bargaining rights -- but going on offense to try to educate the public about the role of unions.
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09:20 PM
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3141 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
Rodney, Things got out of hand because elected leaders bought votes by taking care of special interest groups and failing to execute their sworn duty to serve the people. Yeah, unions are somewhat responsible but, the real failure was at the leadership level both elected and union.
Unfortunately, we're starting to look more and more like Greece and that ain't good.
All free men, wherever they may live, are citizens of Wisconsin, and, therefore, as a free man, I take pride in the words 'Ich bin ein New Berliner!'
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11:51 PM
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3141 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
Okay. As your official highly trained administrative consultant, I have another BRILLIANT method for dealing with the dilemma of passing budget repair with those 14 dems missing. And since it's my civic duty, I'll give it to you for free this time.
Step 1 - go find a man in Kenosha. His name is Jose Rodrigues-Gonzales. He hangs around outside builders square. I don't think he has any ID. Step 2 - get a pair of aviator sunglasses and a Bucs cap. Step 3 - Bring Jose to the capital and have him put on the glasses and ballcap. Step 4 - Assemble the senate and take roll call. Have Jose say his name is Spencer Coggs from Milwaukee. Step 5 - Pass the bill.
Then let approximately 10 minutes pass while Jose goes to have a smoke.
Step 6 - Come back in, call a new session, and immediately vote on (and pass) the Voter ID / no same day registration package.
I swear I could make a killing at this if I wanted
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11:53 PM
Scottzilla79 Member
Posts: 2573 From: Chicago, IL Registered: Oct 2009
Fox news had video of some high school students who were their at the encouragement of their teachers. Needless to say they didn't even know what they were protesting.
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11:54 PM
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Feb 19th, 2011
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35467 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
As school teachers and other publically employed members of unions in Wisconsin continue their march on that state’s capital, protesters frequently compare Republican Governor Scott Walker to Hitler or some other megalomaniac bent on destroying the hopes and dreams of the middle class. Some Wisconsin politicians, like state senator Fred Risser (D-Madison), paint the governor a despot by claiming that “[Walker] comes across more like a dictator and less like a leader.” And President Obama has asserted himself in the mix to assure union leaders he stands with them and believes the legislation Governor Walker supports will “just [make] it harder for public employees to collectively bargain generally,” and that it is “an assault on unions.”
Missing in all this name-calling and finger-pointing is the honest truth about what’s happening in states like Wisconsin where unions have run budgets into the ground: and that truth is that public employees have grown so accustomed to pensions, health insurance, and other benefits coming to them via taxpayer expense that they can’t handle the thought of paying their own way like regular “volk” (a little joke for the “Hitler” chanters in the crowd.)
That’s right: Many of the marchers/protesters in Wisconsin are simply outraged that they may actually have to pay for the goods and services they’re used to forcing others to purchase for them. And they’re so blinded by their learned dependency on big government handouts that they can’t understand that Governor Walker is simply asking all employees in the state to carry their own weight for a change, because taxpayers in Wisconsin can’t do it any more: it’s financially untenable.
As Rush Limbaugh put it: “Average, ordinary Americans who are paying the salaries and the health benefits and the pensions [of union members] are losing their jobs and losing their homes. [So] there isn’t any money anymore!” And this means average Americans, like those in Wisconsin, can’t afford to foot an extravagant bill for others any longer.
We must keep in mind that Governor Walker’s proposals don’t end collective bargaining altogether, which is the charge being leveled by union members and media outlets throughout the country. This is just a smoke screen thrown up by union bosses and the people obligated to those bosses (like Wisconsin Democrats and President Obama), as part of a greater effort to make it seem like Governor Walker is after unions per se. But in truth, the governor’s actions are aimed at saving the state of Wisconsin from the bankruptcy it faces if someone doesn’t step up and pull these unionized masses off the taxpayer’s teet.
Whether intentional or not, a tangled web was woven by Governor Walker’s predecessors, and along the way public employees only grew more accustomed to having their “pensions, healthcare, and unfunded liabilities” paid by rank and file residents of Wisconsin (who have no affiliation with unions apart from paying the expenses union members incur).
Governor Walker campaigned on reining things in financially for Wisconsin, and he’s doing just that. Along the way, he’s hit on a nerve that proves the validity of the assertion that big government handouts promote big dependence.
Texas called it's runaway legislators "killer bees". Do what Texas' Lt Gov did--issue an arrest warrant and order the state troopers to bring them back to their jobs. (Didn't work in Texas, but they sure tried)
Wasn't the Texas runaway issue prompted by a Republican effort to gerrymander congressional districts? If I recall, the Democrats lost 4 seats as a result of the remapping and that was why they left the capital. That whole issue was what started Tom DeLay's legal problems as the investigation into the redistricting opened up more revelations. Eventually, one of the Democrats returned and, since a quorum was then achieved, the measure passed.
You probably know more about the details than I but that's how I recall news reports at the time.
Wasn't the Texas runaway issue prompted by a Republican effort to gerrymander congressional districts? If I recall, the Democrats lost 4 seats as a result of the remapping and that was why they left the capital. That whole issue was what started Tom DeLay's legal problems as the investigation into the redistricting opened up more revelations. Eventually, one of the Democrats returned and, since a quorum was then achieved, the measure passed.
You probably know more about the details than I but that's how I recall news reports at the time.
There is a bit of difference though. When a reporter asked Bush if he would get involved he said it was a local issue and better to keep his nose out of it. Obama has jumped into this local issue with both guns blazing. Once a community organizer, always a community organizer.
Do you have anything to add to the Texas question?
The Texas thing was done without a massive protest that were assisted by the president, so everyone came to their senses. Unlike in WI where it has turned into a big mess assisted by DC. Ohio may be next in the equation. And the president will get involved it that too. Let the states work it out like Texas did. And for the president it has little to do with anything more than his reelection. If he loses OH and WI, he's done.
Wasn't the Texas runaway issue prompted by a Republican effort to gerrymander congressional districts? If I recall, the Democrats lost 4 seats as a result of the remapping and that was why they left the capital. That whole issue was what started Tom DeLay's legal problems as the investigation into the redistricting opened up more revelations. Eventually, one of the Democrats returned and, since a quorum was then achieved, the measure passed.
You probably know more about the details than I but that's how I recall news reports at the time.
Pretty close. The taxpayers in Texas had had enough of the dems' crap and voted them into an impotent minority at a time when districts were being redrawn. Since it's done democratically as opposed to being dictated by the freebie crowd, the dems didn't get their way in the redistricting... so they pranced off the job like the drama queens they are. And to this day the voters of Texas haven't forgotten how democrats act when you get between them and their free lunch.
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12:14 PM
86GT3.4DOHC Member
Posts: 10007 From: Marion Ohio Registered: Apr 2004
Wasn't the Texas runaway issue prompted by a Republican effort to gerrymander congressional districts? If I recall, the Democrats lost 4 seats as a result of the remapping and that was why they left the capital. That whole issue was what started Tom DeLay's legal problems as the investigation into the redistricting opened up more revelations. Eventually, one of the Democrats returned and, since a quorum was then achieved, the measure passed.
You probably know more about the details than I but that's how I recall news reports at the time.
gerrymander - 1. to divide the constituencies of (a voting area) so as to give one party an unfair advantage 2. to manipulate or adapt to one's advantage
The U.S. Constitution requires that states apply the results of the every 10-year census conducted by the federal government and redraw as necessary any congressional districts so that they comprise a roughly equal number of residents.
Both sides do it if they have the majority after each Census. So, why would this be any different than any other time the districts are redrawn? Democrats don't like Republicans doing things when the GOP has the majority, but they do like to tell the GOP "you lost, get over it" when they have the majority.
The Wisconsin issue is the same. The Dems don't like not being able to get what they want, so they walk out. If you've noticed on a national scale with Obama and his complete majority for two years, the GOP didn't do that. They worked within the rules of the system to make their voices heard. We heard all manner of Democrats crying about how mean Republicans were and the "Party of NO" keeping them from passing legislation - while the Dems had a majority in both House and Senate, and a Dem in the Oval. The Tea Party movement started to effect change - WITHIN the system.
Democrats only want to use the system when they're in control, and even then they complain if they meet any resistance. When they don't get their way within the rules - they say F the rules and do what they want.
To quote a Liberal, "You lost. It's supposed to taste like a sh*t sandwich."
Those Wisconsin Democrats are learning that sh*t sandwich they were so quick to feed Republicans doesn't take too good when they get the leftovers back.
Remember images like these? That was the attitude of many Democrats in 2008.
Maybe that sh*t sandwich will go down a little easier with a glass of Liberal Tears? There was an abundant harvest last November.
