The ACLU and liberal judges will let the thugs back out on the streets, if they are ever caught. Victims have no rights in this country, the criminals do.
Stuff like this is hardly news anymore here in Europe. The elderly are an easy pray for robbers, whom are mostly from Moroccan descent. In the Netherlands alone it happens a few times each week. What makes this even worse is that most of these robberies happen in the victim's own house. The robbers simply ring the doorbell and when the victim opens the door the robbers force entry into the house. Usually these robberies are extremely violent and sometimes the elderly person is killed.
It's really not surprising we have someone like Geert Wilders here.
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07:53 PM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
The ACLU and liberal judges will let the thugs back out on the streets, if they are ever caught. Victims have no rights in this country, the criminals do.
Could you give some examples so I can share your rage?
Home invasion robberies are very uncommon, thankfully. When they do happen they make the news of course, but that's because of their exceptionality. In a case like this, the charges will be upgraded to murder of some sort. Given the population density of NYC it's probable the perps won't get caught, but if they do get apprehended it's likely they'll be convicted.
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11:15 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 22751 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Home invasion robberies are very uncommon, thankfully. When they do happen they make the news of course, but that's because of their exceptionality. In a case like this, the charges will be upgraded to murder of some sort. Given the population density of NYC it's probable the perps won't get caught, but if they do get apprehended it's likely they'll be convicted.
Nope, not at all... they are VERY common.
I live in Cooper City, which is considered to be one of the wealthier cities of Fort Lauderdale. The median family income is ~$78,000
There have been a rash of robberies and break-ins in the past 2 years. Every month we get another warning from our comissioners that we need to be vigilant. Quite literally, all the break-ins have been people walking around to various houses in the neighborhood. They knock on the door... if no one answers, they walk around the back and break in (in broad daylight while everyone is at work). If the person DOES answer, they force their way into the house, rob the place, and tie them up. So far, there haven't been any murders or horrendous beatings, but there have been plenty of forced-entry break-ins with the people getting tied up.
I remember someone posting that they never heard of anyone being killed in a "fight" or with bare hands.
Weapons are a equalizer. If this elderly couple had something to defend themselves, then she would still be alive. Without weapons, then big thugs can go around and prey on anyone smaller, frailer or just less willing to use violence than the thug is.
Of course if the elderly couple had something to defend themselves, then there would not be a news story. If I were a betting man, I would bet that the husband and son won't be caught defenseless again.
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11:58 AM
craigsfiero2007 Member
Posts: 3979 From: Livermore, ME Registered: Aug 2007
A innocent, hard working elderly couple murdered for 18 freakin dollars. Sad. I hope they catch the bastards.
The City's ME should be fired and lose his/her license. Brain Hemorrhaging and a Fractured Skull , she suffered and died a slow death. Its murder retard.
Statistical cite(s) please? It's important, I want to fully understand just why you feel that they're "VERY common"; I assume you have access to information to support that belief.
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01:22 PM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
I remember someone posting that they never heard of anyone being killed in a "fight" or with bare hands.
Really? That person must have had no interest in the subject, other then to have a wack ass opinion. There have been men who have died in the ring. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category :Deaths_due_to_injuries_sustained_in_boxing?wasRedirected=true
Not hard to find.
[This message has been edited by WhiteDevil88 (edited 02-16-2011).]
Weapons are a equalizer. If this elderly couple had something to defend themselves, then she would still be alive. .
Seriously, I doubt this very much. In REALITY, the robbers would easily crab the gun (or weapon), and use it on the old folks. (either club them with it or shoot them. then take the weapon with them and probably use it on other victims. ("only 18 bucks, sheeeet, lets go jack up these folks getting into their car w/ this gun...")
Life's NOT like a comic book, with panes and pauses - it all happens in a blink of an eye. Not much time for the old lady to pull out a gun and get the bad guys.
It's all over before you know it.
Walking around my job, or waiting in my car I can SEE (some of) the "bad guys". it's so freakin' apparent. The drug drops, the lookouts, the predators. Most work in teams. Lookouts watch for cops and scan for prey. easy scores. Victims.
Frustrating.
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01:52 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 22751 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Statistical cite(s) please? It's important, I want to fully understand just why you feel that they're "VERY common"; I assume you have access to information to support that belief.
Since I don't want to be your do-boy, how about you show me statistics that show that they are "uncommon?"
Property Crime Facts: . According to the FBI in the US: www.fbi.gov o One property crime happens every 3 seconds. o One burglary occurs every 10 seconds. o One violent crime occurs every 20 seconds. o One aggravated assault occurs every 35 seconds. o One robbery occurs every 60 seconds, or 1 minute. o One forcible rape occurs every 2 minutes. o There were over 2 million burglaries in 2005. o An increase in burglary offenses was the only property crime to increase in 2005 compared with the prior year data.
Home Invasion Facts: o According to a United States Department of Justice report: § 38% of assaults & 60% of rapes occur during home invasions. § 1 of every 5 homes will experience a breakin or home invasion. That's over 2,000,000 homes! o According to Statistics Canada, there has been an average of 289,200 home invasions annually over the last 5 years. o Statistically, there are over 8,000 home invasions per day in North America o According to Statistics U.S.A., there was an average of 3,600,000 home invasions annually between 1994 and 2000.
Pay close attention to this: "1 of every 5 homes will experience a breakin or home invasion. That's over 2,000,000 homes!"
That's not uncommon as far as any stretch of the imagination would be concerned...
I know... these threads (political, etc) make you sad and angry. If it makes you feel better, these stats usually go down when the economy improves (and people are working).
Seriously, I doubt this very much. In REALITY, the robbers would easily crab the gun (or weapon), and use it on the old folks. (either club them with it or shoot them. then take the weapon with them and probably use it on other victims. ("only 18 bucks, sheeeet, lets go jack up these folks getting into their car w/ this gun...")
Life's NOT like a comic book, with panes and pauses - it all happens in a blink of an eye. Not much time for the old lady to pull out a gun and get the bad guys.
It's all over before you know it.
Walking around my job, or waiting in my car I can SEE (some of) the "bad guys". it's so freakin' apparent. The drug drops, the lookouts, the predators. Most work in teams. Lookouts watch for cops and scan for prey. easy scores. Victims.
Frustrating.
You are right, life is not a comic book and I am not saying that it is. It goes both ways. Those thugs have no idea if one of their victims have a gun or not. There are a numerous accounts of victims pulling a gun and stopping an attacker.
Here are just the first page of accounts of elderly people defending themselves with a gun. These are real world accounts:
quote
East Valley Tribune, Scottsdale, AZ, 3/25/08 State: AZ American Rifleman Issue: 3/25/2008 An elderly Scottsdale, AZ woman was still recovering from a break-in late Thursday night by an intruder who demanded money and threatened to set fire to her garage, when the same intruder turned up early Saturday morning. When the 78-year-old woman heard him breaking into her house for the second time, she grabbed her handgun and fired two shots, scaring him away. Police caught up with the uninjured intruder and took him into custody.
The Mendocino County Observer, Laytonville, CA, 04/19/07 State: CA American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2007 An elderly man discovered an intruder less than one-third his age burglarizing his boat. Police say the young criminal sprang at the man, stabbing him in the chest. Despite his injuries, the victim retrieved a shotgun and fired upon his assailant, causing him to flee. The victim was expected to recover from his injuries. The suspect was charged with attempted murder after he was found seeking treatment for gunshot wounds.
The Daily Item, Sunbury, Pa., 4/2/07 State: PA American Rifleman Issue: 7/1/2007 Two MASKED MEN apparently thought they could prey on an elderly couple, but Alif "Betty" Feaster-Weeder's quick thinking prevented their offensive. The 75-year-old woman was lying on a couch reading when the men entered the home. One man asked, "Where's your money?" twice before she understood the seriousness of the situation. The woman yelled for her husband, asleep in an adjoining room, to get his gun. The mere suggestion of the firearm sent the intruders running before the husband could respond.
Echo Press, Alexandria, MN, 04/19/06 State: mn American Rifleman Issue: 7/1/2006 According to police, four young men intended to burglarize the home of an elderly couple. Two men wearing masks entered the home and woke up the couple. After a verbal exchange, the woman yelled to her husband to get his gun. The man was on his way when the suspects ran from the house, got in their car and fled the scene. The homeowners called 9-1-1, and the suspected burglars were apprehended shortly afterward.
The Dickenson Star, Clintwood, VA, 12/22/04 State: VA American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/2005 As Clyde Colley looked down at the gunshot wound in his leg and then up at his wife, he decided that if he did not do something, they would both die. Almost two hours earlier, two men had broken into their Sandlick, Va., home, shot Mr. Colley and ordered the elderly couple to get on the floor. As one of the intruders held the couple at gunpoint, the other ransacked the house. Finally, Colley said that he was not feeling well and needed to go to lie down. This excuse gave him enough time to get to his gun, which he fired twice, killing one intruder and sending the other fleeing into the night. As their phone lines had been cut, Mrs. Colley was forced to run down the driveway and flag down help. Police later apprehended the surviving intruder, Mazel Sexton, and charged him with numerous felony counts. Colley was not expected to be charged in the death of the intruder, who was identified as Hubert Howard, Jr.
The Era-Leader, Franklinton, LA, 07/30/03 State: LA American Rifleman Issue: 11/1/2003 Three ne'er-do-wells in Louisiana found it didn't pay to be greedy when robbing an elderly Pine, La., resident. The three men broke into the 79-year-old woman's home about 4 a.m. The resident was awakened by her barking dog and then realized there was a masked man standing near her bed. When the robber demanded money and jewelry, she shook her metal walker at him. He grabbed her purse and a jewelry box and left, but then returned with an accomplice. By then the resident had retrieved her handgun from under her mattress and aimed it at the returning intruders, who ran from the home. Three suspects were arrested and charged with armed robbery.
Payson Roundup, Payson, AZ, 07/01/03 State: AZ American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2003 When a man came to his door asking to use a phone, an elderly Beaver Valley, Ariz., resident did not expect what would happen next. The visit suddenly turned deadly when the man pulled a knife on homeowner Ray Freisen, demanded his wallet and car keys and then tied him to a chair. Freisen was able to free himself and retrieve his gun, but not before the intruder stabbed Freisen's wife. In defense of his wife, Freisen shot the home invader several times, killing him. By the time medical personnel arrived, Annie, Freisen's wife of 53 years, had also died from her wounds.
Star-Tribune, Minneapolis, MN, 08/22/02 State: MN American Rifleman Issue: 11/1/2002 A 79-year-old Minneapolis, Minn., man shot a home invader who had broken into the elderly man's residence late one night. Harvey Keefe, a World War II Marine Corps veteran, heard someone smash in his back door late one night. Keefe remained in his locked bedroom and picked up his .38-cal. revolver as he heard someone making his way through his house. When the intruder jiggled the doorknob to Keefe's bedroom, the veteran feared for his life and fired his gun. When the intruder appeared to back off and he heard sounds of someone leaving, Keefe called 9-1-1 and waited for authorities to arrive. A suspect suffering from a gunshot wound was found six blocks from the scene and a trail of blood led back to the house. Keefe said he didn't regret firing the shot. "I know I've done the right thing," he said.
The Hartford Courant, Hartford, CT, 5/23/02 State: CT American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2002 When three masked men broke into 77-year-old Edward Gustavson's home to rob him early one morning, they probably thought the elderly man would be easy pickings. They tied Gustavsons hands and took him to the basement, then threw a sheet over their captive while they tried to open his safe. Gustavson took the opportunity to work his hands free and ran up the stairs, the bungling burglars on his heels. When he reached his .38-cal. snub-nose revolver, he turned and shot one of the intruders. "The first [shot] hit him, and we struggled I fired once again, and then the other guy from down in the cellar came from behind me and punched me. I fell to the floor, and then they picked up that table and threw it on top of me," Gustavson said. As the robbers fled the house, one of them grabbed the homeowner's gun and threw it in the back yard. Once he was sure they were gone, Gustavson ran next door to call police, as the thieves had disabled his phone line and alarm system. When asked why he resisted, he replied, I just did it, that's all. Sergeant J. Paul Vance, a state police spokesman, said of Gustavson, He is very fortunate. He's got a lot of guts, as far as Im concerned.
The Post and Courier, Charleston, S C., 10/7/01 State: SC American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2002 An elderly man shot an intruder after the man forced his way into a house and assaulted the homeowner and his wife. The couple had heard noises from the back of their house, then they saw a stranger walking from the back yard to the front yard. When they went to their front door to see what was going on, the stranger forced his way into the home and a brief struggle ensued, with the intruder pushing and grabbing at the homeowners. When the interloper then bolted toward the back of the house, the homeowner grabbed his gun from a bedroom and shot his attacker when he again tried to assault him.
If someone did such a horrible thing to any elderly person would the courts have mercy on me if I went and served physical justice ("like in kind") on the criminal/s who committed the crime?
When the answer to this question becomes a "yes" such crimes will stop.
Most of those are home invasions, not "come up from behind and smash you in the head" type crimes. (In those cases, you're pretty much SOL no matter how old you are... but being old is even worse, because they get badly injured or die)
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02:33 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Home invasion robberies are very uncommon, thankfully.
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Nope, not at all... they are VERY common.
Here is some actual data for the U.S. for 2009 (the most recent full year for which this data is currently available), from the FBI:
Murder = 15,241 (~42 per day, or ~1 per day per state)
Forcible rape = 88,097 (~240 per day, or ~5 per state per day)
Residential robberies (of which "home invasion robberies" are a subset) = 69,191 (~190 per day, or ~4 per state per day)
Residential burglaries = 1,596,008 (~4,400 per day, or ~88 per state per day)
The essential difference between robbery and burglary is whether or not the occupants are present at the time of the crime. "Home invasion robberies" (the specific term used by law enforcement) are robberies that are often perpetrated by gangs and are usually well organized and planned in advance. Home invasions are often preceded by the perpetrators covertly stalking the victims for days in advance, and such surveillance often begins at upscale shopping venues.
I'll leave it to the reader to decide for himself/herself what constitutes "VERY common" or "very uncommon."
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Home Invasion Facts: ... o Statistically, there are over 8,000 home invasions per day in North America ...
This is simply not credible! If you accept the FBI data as accurate, this either GROSSLY overstates the incidence of "home invasion robberies" in North America or misrepresents the actual rate in the U.S. by including data (~7800 "home invasions" per day) from Canada and Mexico, by combining data from both residential and non-residential robberies, and/or by calling burglaries "home invasions." I have difficulty believing that the combined incidence of "home invasions" in Canada and Mexico is actually 41 times that of the U.S. It fails the sanity test!
This gross overstatement calls into question any data from the same source. At the very least, I'd like to see a citation of substantiating original data from a credible source.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-16-2011).]
I guess if one is the victim of a home invasion, they would appear to be very common indeed.
And to 82-T/A[At Work], I'd asked you to provide cites for what made you believe they were common, mainly to try and understand *why* you think they're common. You refused to do so. So, I'll just accept that you believe that without any basis. It's all good, I suppose.
The FBI stats are interesting, wish they had more detail.
Edit to add:
I found an indirect reference to a June 1995 FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin article that mentioned home invasion robberies, but can't find any specific info on the subject that's not tainted. By tainted, I mean websites selling some sort of security or investigative service or equipment. It makes sense that someone selling that type of product would find it in their interest to drum up a little fear. Of course, to a hammer everything looks like a nail, even if it's not.
More edit: Finding lots of web articles claiming it's on the rise, but no cite or statistics as to how many or how often, or even per-capita. Lots of "Statistics show..." and "Records indicate..." statements, but not a single fact to back that up. In fact, many seem to be confusing robbery and burglary and trying to claim burglaries as home invasions.
Apparently they aren't common or distinct enough for law enforcement to keep separate detailed statistics on.
but - I love how this is a new thing.....the elderly never got shaken down in the past....no no no....
this junk is older than christ
I don't think it's a new thing, I just think it's a terrible thing.
edit: and the less people react to it, the worse things become .Like stupid punk asses who smack people and then post it on youtube. never hear much about what happens to them, even if they were caught. But imagine if one of the "Victims" turned around and beat the living sh*t out of them....
Would we start hearing about how they were actually "such good kids" and all that crap? Not saying that we should take to the streets over every mugging,( if no ones around, no one can help), but when something happens in public, and people just walk by/don't want to get involved, it's messed up...
[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 02-16-2011).]
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03:17 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
there are a few posts above that imply this is not something that would have happened "back in the day"
I recommend reading Truman Capote's literary masterpiece, In Cold Blood, some time. That, too, was a home invasion that went very wrong. It occurred in 1959.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-16-2011).]
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03:23 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 22751 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
I guess if one is the victim of a home invasion, they would appear to be very common indeed.
And to 82-T/A[At Work], I'd asked you to provide cites for what made you believe they were common, mainly to try and understand *why* you think they're common. You refused to do so. So, I'll just accept that you believe that without any basis. It's all good, I suppose.
Refused? No... I just posted the first link I found that looked even remotely credible. I know that there have been numerous break-ins in my neighborhood which has a median income of over 78,000 and was listed as the 9th best city in the entire world to raise a family. So, uncommon does not describe it.
Personally, by the stats that Marvin posted, I think it's pretty obvious that it's not "uncommon"...
It seems to be a more critical argument for you than it is for me, so I'm all ears if you want to post some information that shows me how uncommon it is.
I guess if one is the victim of a home invasion, they would appear to be very common indeed.
And to 82-T/A[At Work], I'd asked you to provide cites for what made you believe they were common, mainly to try and understand *why* you think they're common. You refused to do so. So, I'll just accept that you believe that without any basis. It's all good, I suppose.
Isn't everything relative??? In 82 T-A's neighborhood home invasions are more common than here in Duluth. His basis is his personal experience. Cliff might see home invasions in the Netherlands much more common than in the US. I say one home invasion a day is common, you might see that as rare.
You can't say one or the other is right, so there's really no reason to pry the matter.
Sad. I hope they catch the bastards. 
, she suffered and died a slow death. Its murder retard.
