Ok, I want to add more lighting to my garage. I am thinking about adding about 40-50 ceiling light outlets ... 8-10 lights per rafter and 5 rafters. This sounds like a lot, but I will be using 25W CFLs.... I have the standard 8' height in the garage, but no ceiling. Rafters are about 4 ft apart. I tried using 4' fluro. tube lighting, but they just don't last and I don't want to spend $100 on the type that will hold up, not to mention it is difficult to get rid of the long bulbs around here.
What I am looking for is a place to get cheap ceiling outlet boxes and ceiling bulb fixtures... by cheap, I mean $1 each or less and cheap shipping. My nearest big box store is 2 hours away, so I could shop there, but then I have to pay for gas and bridge fare.
Anyone reburb a house and have a bunch of these laying around they want to get rid of for a song?
How about a place to buy in bulk, that ships cheap?
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08:22 AM
PFF
System Bot
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
8' florescent is what you want. Look for a place that does energy efficient lighting upgrades and scam both the old fixtures and the old bulbs from them. When they upgrade they have to pay to get rid of the bulbs. The older style are fine for a garage that gets only part time usage. I got mine from an old hardware store that was going through a remodel.
You could try craigslist, if they have that up there in the UP.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 01-11-2011).]
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08:36 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 22714 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Ok, I want to add more lighting to my garage. I am thinking about adding about 40-50 ceiling light outlets ... 8-10 lights per rafter and 5 rafters. This sounds like a lot, but I will be using 25W CFLs.... I have the standard 8' height in the garage, but no ceiling. Rafters are about 4 ft apart. I tried using 4' fluro. tube lighting, but they just don't last and I don't want to spend $100 on the type that will hold up, not to mention it is difficult to get rid of the long bulbs around here.
What I am looking for is a place to get cheap ceiling outlet boxes and ceiling bulb fixtures... by cheap, I mean $1 each or less and cheap shipping. My nearest big box store is 2 hours away, so I could shop there, but then I have to pay for gas and bridge fare.
Anyone reburb a house and have a bunch of these laying around they want to get rid of for a song?
How about a place to buy in bulk, that ships cheap?
The quickest and easiest thing to do is to go buy one of those hanging flourescent light fixtures. You know those rectangular fixtures that you have inside office buildings that are usually recessed into the sectioned ceiling? You can buy those at Home Depot or Lowes or Hechingers (if this were the 80s) really, really cheap. They're like $30 bucks, WITH the lightbulbs. It includes like 4 flourescent bulbs that are 3' each. You can get them with 120 or 220 volts.
I have a normal sized 2-car garage, and I have one hanging in the center, and my garage is extremely well lit.
If you really needed it, you could put two of them in there and tie them into the single lighting box you have now. For what it's worth, when you buy one, it comes as a kit. You basically get the lighting fixture, along with about 4 feet of conduit and wiring. What I did was remove the porcaline single bulb fixture, then punch out a hole in the electrical box that it attached to, stuck in the conduit / wires from the lighting fixture, tied it in, and then put a plate over the electrical box. All you need is one existing lighting fixture electrical box, and you can attach two of those hanging lights in there.
It works like a charm.
For anything additional, I have a hanging drop-light that self coils... that's hanging from the ceiling by the electric garage door opener.
40-50 lights? I would think that is some kind of overkill for a garage with just 8' walls and only 5 rafters. That's going to be a lot of junctions to make
I have cathedral ceilings in my house, with 14' walls, and use nowhere near that many light fixtures.
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08:59 AM
jaskispyder Member
Posts: 21510 From: Northern MI Registered: Jun 2002
Thanks for the info. Part of the problem is the cold. The tube flourescent bulbs don't do well in the cold. Sometimes I can't even get some of them to turn on. I would have to buy the special bulbs/fixtures that work in the cold and that raises the price. Also, I can't get rid of the long bulbs around here, easily.
I forgot about CL... I will check that out.
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09:03 AM
jaskispyder Member
Posts: 21510 From: Northern MI Registered: Jun 2002
40-50 lights? I would think that is some kind of overkill for a garage with just 8' walls and only 5 rafters. That's going to be a lot of junctions to make
I have cathedral ceilings in my house, with 14' walls, and use nowhere near that many light fixtures.
the rafters are 4 ft apart... this is probably a 24x24 garage with no ceiling, so some light will be lost. I figure about 8 to 10 lights per rafter. I could go less, but some of these lights will also have outlets for reel shop lights and for generic ceiling power. I know it seems like too much.... but the garage is too dark and it faces north, so even in the summer there isn't much light in there.
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09:06 AM
nmw75 Member
Posts: 1676 From: Mc Falls, Maine Registered: Mar 2007
the rafters are 4 ft apart... this is probably a 24x24 garage with no ceiling, so some light will be lost. I figure about 8 to 10 lights per rafter. I could go less, but some of these lights will also have outlets for reel shop lights and for generic ceiling power. I know it seems like too much.... but the garage is too dark and it faces north, so even in the summer there isn't much light in there.
Sounds similar to my garage. I use the type of light fixtures your looking for. There are nine. When I bought the house, each outlet had a 75w bulb but I still found it a bit dark. I replaced them with CFL's with the light output equivalent to a 100 watt bulb. I think its around 23 watts? That change gave me alot more light. Just be sure to get the "Bright White" CFL's & not the "warm light" if you go that direction.
------------------ 86 GT 87 coupe restoration project.
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09:22 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
A little over kill, but up here I also have trouble with fluorescents starting because of the cold. So I did this, I put up the old style incandescing bulb sockets about every 5 ft. then I got one of those sockets you screw into those that have two plugs and a pull chain to turn on the bulbs. And I plug the fluorescents into the plugs. That way if the fluorescents don’t light I can just pull the chain and wala the incandescent work.
Like this
You screw them into the switched ceiling light socket and put what ever type of screw in light bulb you want. The screw in light bulb is controlled by the pull chain and the wall switch.
Now if the fluorescents don’t light right away because of the cold just pull the chain and there you go instant light utill the shop warms up enough for the fluorescents to work.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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09:34 AM
jaskispyder Member
Posts: 21510 From: Northern MI Registered: Jun 2002
Yup, that sounds about right. I know even 10 bulbs would be good, but I am thinking 40-50 would be better. I figured that I am running the wires, so adding more outlet boxes wouldn't be a big deal. I can always choose to leave some light bulbs out if it is too bright.
quote
Originally posted by nmw75:
Sounds similar to my garage. I use the type of light fixtures your looking for. There are nine. When I bought the house, each outlet had a 75w bulb but I still found it a bit dark. I replaced them with CFL's with the light output equivalent to a 100 watt bulb. I think its around 23 watts? That change gave me alot more light. Just be sure to get the "Bright White" CFL's & not the "warm light" if you go that direction.
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09:34 AM
jaskispyder Member
Posts: 21510 From: Northern MI Registered: Jun 2002
Thanks, I did something similar... currently my garage has 2 ceiling lights and some fluorescents over the work area... yup... two whole lights! I had the 4' fluor. but they lasted about 2 years and the fixtures quit working.
Keep the ideas coming!
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:
A little over kill, but up here I also have trouble with fluorescents starting because of the cold. So I did this, I put up the old style incandescing bulb sockets about every 5 ft. then I got one of those sockets you screw into those that have two plugs and a pull chain to turn on the bulbs. And I plug the fluorescents into the plugs. That way if the fluorescents don’t light I can just pull the chain and wala the incandescent work.
Like this
You screw them into the switched ceiling light socket and put what ever type of screw in light bulb you want. The screw in light bulb is controlled by the pull chain and the wall switch.
Now if the fluorescents don’t light right away because of the cold just pull the chain and there you go instant light utill the shop warms up enough for the fluorescents to work.
Steve
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09:42 AM
Mike Gonzalez Member
Posts: 5093 From: Colorado Springs, CO. USA Registered: Jul 2001
For instant bright light I like the 500w halogen lights, plus they are a good heat source to get the air warm enough for the flourescents to light up. My shop is 32x32 and I have 6 halogens on 3 seperate switches so I can light up where I need it. They are cheap, one of them has been using the bulb it came with 10 years !
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09:52 AM
PFF
System Bot
Gokart Mozart Member
Posts: 12143 From: Metro Detroit Registered: Mar 2003
Not practical, as I work a lot in the evenings, in the garage. I do have a plan on installing windows in the South facing wall, but that won't happen until I upgrade the windows in the house (years away). Plus, the garage rafters house Fiero parts and there is not a direct line of site to most of the ceiling in the center
Do you have a sub panel in your garage? How many circuits do you plan on putting in? Around here, code is something like only 8 - 12 lights per circuit. You don't want to overload it or you will have a fire hazard on your hands. If it were me, I'd talk to an electrician in your area and get some ideas.
Doug
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10:59 AM
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7497 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
Do you have a sub panel in your garage? How many circuits do you plan on putting in? Around here, code is something like only 8 - 12 lights per circuit. You don't want to overload it or you will have a fire hazard on your hands. If it were me, I'd talk to an electrician in your area and get some ideas.
Doug
What he said, you need to check your electrical code as you will need 4 to 5 separate circuits for that many lights.
As for the 4' fluro - you really only need the cold weather ballast, the bulbs do not matter (that is to say, there is no cold start bulbs). However, the tubes are dim when you first turn them on until the 'warm' up (only takes a couple of minutes) - you do NOT gain anything by using CFL's as the ballast in them is not meant for cold enviroments - you may have the same issue the standard lamps.
As mentioned, halagon fixtures are the way to go if you don't wish to go with the cold start ballast's - of course there is always the LED solution (again not cheap).
You can get cold start ballasts and install them in the fixtures you already have, so you can keep your existing fixtures and bulbs.
Also keep in mind the fact that the cost of copper wire has gone up significantly in the last few years. It is likely to cost you $70 or more for a 100 foot roll of 12/2 cable with a ground. All those proposed lights need a power supply connection. You would also need adequate space on the existing panel box or could even be required to install a subpanel box to handle the lights.
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11:26 AM
jaskispyder Member
Posts: 21510 From: Northern MI Registered: Jun 2002
I want to avoid trying to run more power to the garage, as it is not easy and my box is getting full (maybe when I switch to a gas stove... I will have more room). I am looking at about 1000W or less. I was thinking this through and I could go with 30 bulbs. I really want to avoid the 4' bulbs, as I stated, it is difficult to dispose of them here. Garbage collection will not take them as they don't fit in an enclosed 32 gal. garbage container (yes, they will not pick it up if the lid isn't on the container!)
So, 4' tubes are really not ideal for me and I am trying to get away with something else.
I can't get a china mart listing but I know they carry them so you might want to check there before going someplace else because they are cheap.. That was what you wanted prices for wasn’t it? Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-11-2011).]
Just another idea that my dad has used to light both of our garages and our basement.
While doing some jobs at the Mayo Clinic here in Rochester, my dad had to make a few trips to their outdated office supply warehouse. Its basically just a warehouse that they keep all the old, dated, office chairs, desks, filing cabinets, and, you guessed it, lighting! We now have flourescent lighting in both our garages and in my basement, and it was all very, very, cheap!
The shop/garage is probably about 30x40 and we have five 4' flourescent fixtures. Each fixture has 3 bulbs. Works really well, plus we have one of the 500w halogens that Mike Gonzalez showed between the two overhead garage doors.
Not sure if there would be any warehouse type place that would have lighting in the U.P., but it might be worth looking into.
edit to remove my poor ASCII art.
[This message has been edited by 1988holleyformula (edited 01-11-2011).]
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11:49 AM
PFF
System Bot
Lambo nut Member
Posts: 4442 From: Centralia,Missouri. USA Registered: Sep 2003
I really want to avoid the 4' bulbs, as I stated, it is difficult to dispose of them here. Garbage collection will not take them as they don't fit in an enclosed 32 gal. garbage container (yes, they will not pick it up if the lid isn't on the container!)
Simple solution, make the 4 foot or 8 foot bulbs uummm shorter.
Kevin
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12:04 PM
jaskispyder Member
Posts: 21510 From: Northern MI Registered: Jun 2002
CFLs arent going to help you for the cold startup, I like CFLs but they are just as bad as tubes when it comes to cold.
Not to be negative, but this is really a bad idea in general. You are going to need a LOT of circuits for that many fixtures, I cant speak to code in your area but they are typically based on worst case sceanrios, which is going to be something like all 100 watt bulbs or the like, so as its been said, 8 - 10 per 15A circuit. Its also going to take FOREVER to wire all of those junctions, plus all of the materials. How many places have you ever been that you've seen setup like that? Ive never seen a one, and I would wonder what the hell was going on if I did see a place wired like that.
Just go with the norm, everyone else uses florescent fixtures or other high intensity lighting in that type of a scenario for a reason.
And getting rid of the bulbs shouldnt be your main concern, if you burn through that many florescents then you have bigger issues. I know of fixtures in places that I can even remember the last time ONE bulb in the place was changed. You can always pile them in a corner or lay them in the rafters for all eternity, then if you ever get half a dozen of them, dispose of them all at once. Every decent sized town has some sort of hazmat facility, and if you're complaining the garbage wont pick them up, then you arent concerned about proper disposal anyway so just put them in a large garbage bag and tap them with a hammer, then they will fit in a normal bag and into any trash can.
The flood lights arent a bad option, if you can mount them high enough to get good coverage out of them, otherwise you will just have small bright areas
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12:06 PM
PontiacFiero Member
Posts: 760 From: Huntsville, AL Registered: Apr 2002
... you do NOT gain anything by using CFL's as the ballast in them is not meant for cold enviroments - you may have the same issue the standard lamps.....
Thats true. In the winter it takes a couple of minutes for mine to warm up & emit the full brightness. The main reason I went with CFL's was to reduce electric consumption / load on that circuit. I went from 675w down to 207w.
------------------ 86 GT 87 coupe restoration project.
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12:16 PM
jaskispyder Member
Posts: 21510 From: Northern MI Registered: Jun 2002
While we're on the topic of garage lighting, let me add another question. I'm considering 48" 4-tube fixtures for my garage. I have a 2 car garage that is roughly 22x22 sq ft. If you've put in some lighting, what positioning did you find worked best? If the cars point North/South, do you put one fixture over each car also facing N/S? Or maybe put them going East/West with one at the front of the cars and one at the back? Is two enough? Other suggestions?
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01:40 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43224 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
While we're on the topic of garage lighting, let me add another question. I'm considering 48" 4-tube fixtures for my garage. I have a 2 car garage that is roughly 22x22 sq ft. If you've put in some lighting, what positioning did you find worked best? If the cars point North/South, do you put one fixture over each car also facing N/S? Or maybe put them going East/West with one at the front of the cars and one at the back? Is two enough? Other suggestions?
I have a 3 car garage, with (8) 4 foot long hanging fixtures, each have 2 tube bulbs in them. "Mini" flourescent tubes, they are thinner and "high output" for use in low temps. The fixtures were about $15 each, the bulbs were seperate, maybe $3 each?. They plug in to outlets I have in the ceiling, the outlets are wired to some ilght switches. Been up 5 years and no bulb replacements yet. The lighting is great, and you can choose if you want the bulbs that give "outdoor sunlight" "office light" etc, Got them at Lowes
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 01-11-2011).]
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01:57 PM
datacop Member
Posts: 1426 From: Indianapolis, IN, USA Registered: Jan 2004
1/ Wrap 'em in duct tape so the glass is fully encased. 2/ wack with a hammer a few times. (now ya know why you encased them in duct tape 3/ Roll up the result and put it in a bag. 4/ You can probably figgure out what to do with the bag.
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03:45 PM
Gokart Mozart Member
Posts: 12143 From: Metro Detroit Registered: Mar 2003
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heres my cheep cluster, spliters, running 8 CFL's 100 watt output each, with 23 watts pull each 23watts x 8 is 184 watts, so its really efficient i have this x2 in my 24x24 garage, that is painted white (paint makes a HUGE difference )
plus i have 2 125 watt CFL's in my garage door opener that pull maybe 30w each?? i took the pic with the lights off, otherwise all i could get is glare
CFL's dont work too well in the cold, untill they get up to temp, so at first they would be pretty dim
to solve that i have a heated garage , right now it is -4 with -23 wind chill, but it is 48 in my garage
------------------ AIM:Onefast2M8 00 VW GTi VR6 -- Not stock 06 VW GTi 2.0t 99 Explorer Eddie Bauer 5.0 AWD
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09:37 PM
Jan 12th, 2011
hairballrm Member
Posts: 768 From: Philomath Oregon USA Registered: Nov 2009
Floresent 8 or 4 footers is what I have. Look for someone in your area that demolishes buildings. A friend of mine gets 8 footers w/ bulbs from a guy in the area for $5.00 each. I have 2 strings on the ceiling, and one down each side. Brite enough to do all over paint jobs with the walls and ceiling painted white.
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02:29 PM
carnut122 Member
Posts: 9122 From: Waleska, GA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
Thanks for the info. Part of the problem is the cold. The tube flourescent bulbs don't do well in the cold. Sometimes I can't even get some of them to turn on. I would have to buy the special bulbs/fixtures that work in the cold and that raises the price. Also, I can't get rid of the long bulbs around here, easily.
I forgot about CL... I will check that out.
If you use the solid state/electronic ballasts, you shouldn't have a problem with the cold. This would be a good time to test one. Of course GA isn't anything like up there, but I have never had an issue with mine.
CFLs arent going to help you for the cold startup, I like CFLs but they are just as bad as tubes when it comes to cold.
Think so? Many CFL and Some tube will work in cold weather. (For tube, check tube spec's and ballast spec.) Cheap CFL has warm up time 5-15 minute or more but Usually they will light just dim until they warm up. I use CFL and Tube in cold weather for years.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
In my 30' x 36' horse barn, I have nine of these with plain old 100 watt bulbs:
I just removed the clamp and hung them over the trusses at the 10' level. They light immediately no matter what the temp, provide plenty of light, and cost less than $6 each. I have them in the car barn, too.
------------------ 1986 SE 350 V8
[This message has been edited by tesmith66 (edited 01-13-2011).]
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12:39 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43224 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
