Ok, maybe that's a bit overgeneralized, but I am getting a bit sick and tired of the cheating, the lying, the backstabbing, the money-grubbing, and in almost every case the sheer stupidity of people.

I'm not talking about two groups of people each standing on one side of an ideology trying to hurt each other. I'm not talking about Muslims vs Christians. Republicans vs Democrats, Black vs White. North vs South. Left vs Right. I'm talking about the people who supposedly share the same morals and standards you do. You know, the people who are supposedly on your side.

We fight as one against our enemies, so we can screw each other over in freedom.

Apparently, that's the way of life we feel is so important to defend. The right to make our own sets of rules to live by. The right to think that everything is perfectly OK as long as we can get away with it. The right to think that the need of the one outweighs the need of the many.

Fortunately, I'm old enough to remember a time where common sense, courtesy, and empathy still existed. It's the basis for my sense of morality. It doesn't mean that I'm "holier than thou" though. But it does mean I actually have a conscience. It prevents me from knowingly hurting other people. And it drives me trying to help them. It's also the reason why I need no pat on the back, or any other form of acknowledgment when I do. So when I find a gold necklace in a department store, and I bring it to the customer service desk and they ask me to leave a name and phone number in case the owner shows up and there's a reward, I ask them "why?" and politely decline (this actually happened yesterday).

But what about our children? They grow up in a society where being "bad" is glorified. Where they are taught that it's your own damn fault your home got burgled because you left your door unlocked. It's your own damn fault you got raped because your skirt is too revealing. It's your own damn fault your daughter got kidnapped because you shouldn't have left her out of your sight. The victim is at fault in this society. The offender is just some poor sod who can't help himself and we should really try to understand what brought him to his actions.

You might wonder what prompted me to write all this. It's not just one thing. It's the constant proverbial drops in the bucket. Every morning I open up my email and every morning there are more people trying to screw me over than the morning before. I'm not talking about Nigerian scammers or some other blokes from across the world. Again, I'm talking about the people on our side of the fence. The HP representative, that tells me that yes, the $1000 printer I just bought from my hard earned cash has a defect and no, they can't be bothered to fix it. The guy I sold an item to on eBay who claims he never got the item even though I actually have his digital signature that he received it and who threatens to leave me negative feedback if I don't refund his money. The forum member who is claiming I accept bribes for letting banned members back in. The other banned forum member who has been sending emails to my clients saying I am not the owner of my software and that I actually stole it from him. The company that sent a fake invoice for something I never ordered, and the subsequent collecting agency they sent my way. The police officer that gave me a ticket because I was going ONE mile over the speed limit (seriously) while at less than 20 feet distance, someone is dealing drugs but the officer can't be bothered with that. The sales person in the store that tries to convince me the $100 dollar HDMI cable gives a better picture quality than the $15 HDMI cable.

And everybody hides behind the same cliches: freedom of speech, freedom of enterprise, freedom of information, freedom of religion, freedom of whatever you can think of to justify to screw others.

End rant.

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: We fight as one against our enemies, so we can screw each other over in freedom.

You speak truth, young Jedi.

Welcome to my way of thinking! I've been saying the same for years. As far as I can tell, 99.9999% of the population isn't worth knowing...not going to get into it, it'll just piss me off too much if I start thinking about it.

wow.. and i thought i was the only one.... Cliff, you only need to look in your own forum too see people who are NOT like "THOSE" people... for one here you have a guy who took in a total stranger from tousands of miles away to help him get a fresh start... a group of guys who made a dying boys dream car come true... guys who are helping a stranger who almost died in a accident... there always seems to be offers of "HELP" to repair others cars .... offers of free or cheep parts and other goodies.... goodwill and cheer sent to others they have never met...

so yes in my life "people suck", but not on here...
=todd=

Ah, so the Netherlands, in this regard, is just like the US. Welcome to humanity.

BTW, I feel the same way you do.

Now that you have identified the enemy, defend your castle with the utmost vigor. Rules of engagement exist but, that's your call. If you need re-enforcements, most here would have your six. Go gett'em tiger.

Ron

I had a whole bunch of stuff typed up, but I changed my mind. It wouldn't have added anything positive.

So I'll just say, sorry for your troubles. There are still good people in this world. If you need an example, go look in a mirror.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Now that you have identified the enemy, defend your castle with the utmost vigor. Rules of engagement exist but, that's your call. If you need re-enforcements, most here would have your six. Go gett'em tiger. Ron

People suck! Never underestimate stupid people in large groups!

welcome to my world. paradoxically, a little self-delusion (people are good, people are good...) goes a long way to buffer the paranoia and make reality tolerable. ask rumor or boondawg. just remember, everyone (yes, everyone) is motivated by self-interest. we can hope that it's enlightened self-interest, but some people are shorter-sighted than others. just another day in utopia

You know, I think Cliff needs some time off. Maybe a nice vacation. Take a little trip somewhere. Just for the day. Maybe by train.

Why do ya think I prefer living in the country with the nearest nieghbor a mile away. 99% of the human species can go eff themselves IMHO.

quote Originally posted by Zeb: Maybe by train.

So...you also have a bunch of people who feel they are entitled to a bunch of stuff they don't deserve or worked for?
You certainly seem to have to deal with a bunch of mentally deficient people.

quote The guy I sold an item to on eBay who claims he never got the item even though I actually have his digital signature that he received it and who threatens to leave me negative feedback if I don't refund his money. The forum member who is claiming I accept bribes for letting banned members back in. The other banned forum member who has been sending emails to my clients saying I am not the owner of my software and that I actually stole it from him.

Maybe you should have some sort of legal action against the guy saying you stole your software from him. He certainly is defaming you to your customers, with his slanderous statements, and should face libel charges for doing do.
I wouldn't worry about the person claiming you take bribes to let banned members back here. We all know this is false.
If the guy on Ebay leaves you negative feedback, give him some too and mention your proof. He only has so much time to give you the negative feedback in. Maybe you can wait him out somehow. You could always give the information to Ebay and ask to have his account closed for making false accusations against you.
Don't let the turkeys get you down.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 01-08-2011).]

quote Originally posted by lurker: everyone (yes, everyone) is motivated by self-interest. we can hope that it's enlightened self-interest, but some people are shorter-sighted than others.

Absolutely everyone is motivated by self-interest. But some people draw lines as to how far they will go to fulfill it.

HP has drawn the line where they will blatantly lie about the performance about a product to make a HUGE profit self-interest, and then not stand behind it.

A forum member will try to damage Cliff's reputation to fulfill their self-interest.

A company will send a fake invoice to try to get money in their self-interest, which would be theft.

A police officer will fulfill their self-interest of meeting their ticket quotas by giving a ticket to someone going ONE mile over the speed limit.

A sales person will LIE to fulfill their self-interest of making more profit, by claiming an improvement in picture quality way beyond what an $85 difference would justify.


No one has a problem that people are motivated by self-interest. That is NORMAL.

The problem is the constant grind of bumping into the sheer VOLUME of people that will go to what DEGREE in order to fulfill their self-interest. Willing to knowingly disadvantage or hurt someone to fulfill their self-interest (as opposed to a 'win-win', which actually CAN exist).


I will tell you that the VOLUME of people willing to go to a certain degree has INCREASED in my lifetime, and the DEGREE they are willing to go has increased, also.


One of the challenges is to not let that grind on you to where you stop being as caring about others as you were or would have been. I know Cliff won't do that. Venting is the extent he would be willing to go.

..It is the way of life ,it is true, communication has made life worse as far as morals & integrity Go..The godless are ascending,starts with children who are taught to respect no one,but immediate family .Teachers can not discipline children for fear of a lawsuit ..
...I found the true morality of man in Africa..I still can not beleave the cruelty
of one man to another & how easy it was for men to maim & kill Babies.
..So stealing,lying,the con ,assault,rip off have become more common.
..HONOR,LOYALTY ,INTEGRITY ARE ONLY USED WHEN IT SUITS YOUR OWN PURPOSE,,worse is comming ,these are still the good times,
..If only the troublesome Moluccans were our most serious problem !!no possible return to Pre 1960s life styles.

Keukenhof will be a' bloom in less than four months, The Nightwatch is close by you. Take a train in April to see the blumen and find a cute guide to take you through the Rijksmuseum. It always helped get over the blahs. Spring is not in the air-it is in our hearts.

[This message has been edited by starlightcoupe (edited 01-08-2011).]

So sorry to hear you say you are disillusioned by the people who are supposed to enforce the rules but don't.

Stan's got the right idea. I'd like to expand on what he's said...

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: The godless are ascending,starts with children who are taught to respect no one,but immediate family .

Although I don't consider myself religious now, I was raised in a Christian home. That's where I got my sense of morality. I have to say, the further society gets from those kinds of principles, and the more they wash away those ideals from society, the more you're going to see this kind of crap.

quote Teachers can not discipline children for fear of a lawsuit

This is another major issue, one that I don't think gets enough attention. Without fear of discipline, there is no fear of consequence for one's actions. If you can run around and be a wild and out of control POS as a kid, and all they'll do is "be sensitive and gentle and have a talk with you abut not hurt your feelings or dampen your self esteem", then you'll likely grow up not thinking that there are any *real* consequences for your actions. Combine that with no real, basic sense of morality, and you can see the result.

Bottom line: no basic sense of morality plus no fear of punishment equals a society full of people who really don't give a crap about you or their actions.

[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 01-08-2011).]

Sorry man, I feel the frustration in your post. Dealing with people is becoming increasingly difficult, with companies increasingly sucking, (especially w/ product and support). Having people from your past try to mess with you, with people trying to CON you, with "authorites" abusing their power, with the whole damn world taking what it can from you, and....

Products sucking more w/ less-quality support has been ranted about MUCH around here. It's part of the "DEAL WITH IT" Dumbing down of EVERYTHING. lowered expectations...


It's one of the problems of being an intelligent person, Cliff- If you were dumber, people wouldn't bother you as much. Rocks would be more interesting to play with, and...

I would avoid publicly discussing how people affect you, it gives them a sort of strength, and can act as a motivating force to attempt further BS, knowing it will irk you.

Sorry man, try to enjoy the weekend.

I've posted this link before, but it plays off of Rumor's response:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...2%80%93Kruger_effect

[This message has been edited by Zeb (edited 01-08-2011).]

I disagree that "fear" should drive morality. There's no such thing as "fear" for anything in my life yet I don't run around trying to screw others over. I'm also one of those "godless" people, so I don't fear the wrath of any god.

Good/kindness comes from within. Not from without. I don't need any excuse or incentive to do good. No promise of Eden. No fear of punishment. Because that's my whole point. Nowadays, people only do good if it is somehow worth their while. I don't need nor crave a reward.

quote Originally posted by FieroRumor: I would avoid publicly discussing how people affect you, it gives them a sort of strength, and can act as a motivating force to attempt further BS, knowing it will irk you.

The upside of a lawless and amoral society - we can find them and then go beat the s*** out of them.

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: It's official. I hate Joesfiero.

Dang, sorry I never knew. Hey can I have that printer?

[This message has been edited by joesfiero (edited 01-08-2011).]

I feel the way you do Cliff, have for years.

I am seeing a pattern here. Most of us feel the same way as Cliff does, so this must mean that all people are backstabbing Azhats except for Fiero people (generalized to be sure and of course after looking at the Trash Can, maybe not 100% accurate, but hey it was cute.)

So many good points in this thread. It just makes you think of where the hell we'll end up as a species in the future.. At this rate, I don't even want to live long enough to retire from a job/career. Every time I have to walk into a store or public institution, or even take the damn bus and have to see how shitty our society is. I feel that my level of intelligence lessens as I have to listen to a pair of people my age (I'm 19) or hell, even older people.. My solution? Noise canceling ear buds and my mp3 player . There are so many people in the world, but one can't help feeling lonely knowing that 98.764% are soulless, stupid, selfish, and just plain dumb people with no morals.

I agree with fierobear and this quote:

quote Although I don't consider myself religious now, I was raised in a Christian home. That's where I got my sense of morality. I have to say, the further society gets from those kinds of principles, and the more they wash away those ideals from society, the more you're going to see this kind of crap.

I feel the EXACT same way... Although I never believed in the teachings or whatever the hell else they tried to stuff in my brain, I got discipline from it. The combination of my upbringing, social/financial situation growing up, and schooling has the biggest impact on who I am today, which stands true for everyone. The reason why I came out "different" (I don't want to say "better" for lack of sounding arrogant, or for insinuating that I am better because everyone has their flaws) is because of my specific situation and unconventional experiences growing up.

People my age especially are so ****ing dumb and have no concept of morals or certain principles. They live their lives from weekend to weekend not caring about anything but retelling their retarded adventures of how they ran from the cops, stole this and that, passed out drinking and smoking weed, driving drunk or high, getting into fights, who they ****ed last night, etc. etc. the list goes on and on and on. The people's code today is sex, money, and drugs. Morals don't exist. I'm tired of this dumbassery already.

Cliff, I feel your pain.

Although I know it's not why you started this thread, and that I should have a LONG time ago... I bought you a beer.
It would be an absolute pleasure to take you to the pub in person and knock down a few to "people sucking", but as current geographical challenges prevent that, you'll have to settle for an e-Beer.

Thank you for everything. Some people do appreciate you.
~Tyler

------------------

quote Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: Why do ya think I prefer living in the country with the nearest nieghbor a mile away. 99% of the human species can go eff themselves IMHO.

i as well moved to the country on an acreage for this exact reason. and cliff we think very much alike.

I think maybe sometimes it just feels like everone is on the scam.
I think it is just a matter of ratios.
We are engaging ourselves with more people daily, and just by the percentages comming across a larger number of "undesirables".

I could make you feel better about some of these things by telling you just how much I really love you and how my arms ache to hold and comfort you, to brush those wisppy bangs from your longing eyes, and to run with you hand-in-hand across fields of powder blue daffodils, giggling & gayly tossing tangerine cottoncandy over our shoulders, before we fall to the ground, breathless and full of wonder, with a love as full as the sun that kisses our faces.

But I don't want to come off as "odd"...........

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-08-2011).]

I think a lot of it has to do with disintegration of traditional families, poor parenting, and population explosions. Kids are learning their values from people who don't have their best interests at heart. It's very sad, but there are people who try to help the problems of latchkey kids. Not nearly enough it's true. The world is an angry place. Criminals are trying their da******* to take control, and good people are the ones that have to fight them. I like to take road trips and associate with people I like at times when i'm low. So take that train ride and re-energize. I hope you feel better.

Jane

------------------
Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality

I guarantee you, this wouldn't be happening if homo sapiens had a natural predator.

quote Originally posted by tmur115: wow.. and i thought i was the only one.... Cliff, you only need to look in your own forum too see people who are NOT like "THOSE" people... for one here you have a guy who took in a total stranger from tousands of miles away to help him get a fresh start... a group of guys who made a dying boys dream car come true... guys who are helping a stranger who almost died in a accident... there always seems to be offers of "HELP" to repair others cars .... offers of free or cheep parts and other goodies.... goodwill and cheer sent to others they have never met... =todd=

I agree with this post. Sometimes it seems the ones that make you the most upset are the ones we concentrate on, when it should be the ones that make you the happiest. Just as the one who screams the loudest gets the attention not the ones quietly humming happy tune.
Look at the amount of times we talk about a small section of any group because of the trouble they cause while the rest may be good. The idiots don't normally represent the larger group but it's easy to concentrate on them and spend your time being upset, hell 24 hour news organizations are based on it mix that with a bit of fear and you've got a popular topic.

Trying to realize what is truly important is a constant struggle, when going through tough times or hearing of others obstacles I often try to use that to show me what I should be concerned with: family, friends, health, and good times. As tmur said things like looking at how a group of car nuts that like to argue about everything under the sun got together to honour a young man and his family that had something really upsetting to deal with is encouraging to say the least. Not that we don't have the right to get upset at the idiots of the world or that things shouldn't bother us but it's a good thing to try and keep our lives in perspective. Easy to say of course, not so easy to do.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 01-08-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: I guarantee you, this wouldn't be happening if homo sapiens had a natural predator.

They do.
They just pretend they're not.

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: So many good points in this thread. It just makes you think of where the hell we'll end up as a species in the future.. At this rate, I don't even want to live long enough to retire from a job/career. Every time I have to walk into a store or public institution, or even take the damn bus and have to see how shitty our society is. I feel that my level of intelligence lessens as I have to listen to a pair of people my age (I'm 19) or hell, even older people.. My solution? Noise canceling ear buds and my mp3 player . There are so many people in the world, but one can't help feeling lonely knowing that 98.764% are soulless, stupid, selfish, and just plain dumb people with no morals. I agree with fierobear and this quote: I feel the EXACT same way... Although I never believed in the teachings or whatever the hell else they tried to stuff in my brain, I got discipline from it. The combination of my upbringing, social/financial situation growing up, and schooling has the biggest impact on who I am today, which stands true for everyone. The reason why I came out "different" (I don't want to say "better" for lack of sounding arrogant, or for insinuating that I am better because everyone has their flaws) is because of my specific situation and unconventional experiences growing up. People my age especially are so ****ing dumb and have no concept of morals or certain principles. They live their lives from weekend to weekend not caring about anything but retelling their retarded adventures of how they ran from the cops, stole this and that, passed out drinking and smoking weed, driving drunk or high, getting into fights, who they ****ed last night, etc. etc. the list goes on and on and on. The people's code today is sex, money, and drugs. Morals don't exist. I'm tired of this dumbassery already.

As an 18 year old, I run in to the same thing. Its refreshing to find someone else who thinks in a similar fashion at my age!

In the immortal words of Denis Leary, "Life Sucks, Buy a F***in helmet!"

I decided a long time ago that people suck. The mean ones even more so. But some of the WORST things that have EVER been done to me, have been out of "LOVE"....So yea, people suck. But I try not to be one of those people.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: I guarantee you, this wouldn't be happening if homo sapiens had a natural predator.

I assure you we have a natural predator, it is us. Someone has to clean up this mess.

Ron

I feel your pain too, Cliff. I was just "written up" by my boss for reporting a major safety hazard (to both patients and employees) at the hospital where I work. No good deed goes unpunnished.

quote Originally posted by timcha: I feel your pain too, Cliff. I was just "written up" by my boss for reporting a major safety hazard (to both patients and employees) at the hospital where I work. No good deed goes unpunnished.

For what, improper channels?

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: For what, improper channels?

According to him, Yes.......according to the manual?

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: I guarantee you, this wouldn't be happening if homo sapiens had a natural predator.

How does that old saying go? Mankind is the only species that preys on itself?