quote Originally posted by 2.5: Ok I will change that to...proved Pyrthians point. I am not casting blame at one side here, simply pointing out how it is ruining our country.

Well said, sir.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Well, yes. I get it. Now about that OTHER thread, the one that spawned this one. Doesn't that seem more than a little bit like a caricature?

No, because I'm posting NEWS ARTICLES of things liberals are doing, examples, articles from former liberals about their mindset...you post satire cartoons and drop names like Rush Limbaugh. Wow...you REALLY can't see the difference. Amazing.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: No, because I'm posting NEWS ARTICLES of things liberals are doing, examples, articles from former liberals about their mindset...you post satire cartoons and drop names like Rush Limbaugh. Wow...you REALLY can't see the difference. Amazing.

you mean like Timothy McViegh, the conservative? the KKK? the abortion church shooting guy, Scott Roeder?
yes, anyone can drag up idiotic examples
how's about Jeffrey Dahmer? a fine conservative
is that your mindset? as a conservative?
there is Westkley Allen Todd, another fine conservative child killer & molestor.
is that your mindset?

how's about we next go on with Negros and Fags, because they are all the same as well.
this crap is STUPID. but, continue with your stereotyping foolishness.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: you mean like Timothy McViegh, the conservative? the KKK? the abortion church shooting guy, Scott Roeder? yes, anyone can drag up idiotic examples how's about Jeffrey Dahmer? a fine conservative is that your mindset? as a conservative? there is Westkley Allen Todd, another fine conservative child killer & molestor. is that your mindset? how's about we next go on with Negros and Fags, because they are all the same as well. this crap is STUPID. but, continue with your stereotyping foolishness.

Uh, no, I'm not doing stereotyping. I'm posting stuff about the people in power.

Actual things being done by the people in power is not stereotyping, it is reality.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Uh, no, I'm not doing stereotyping. I'm posting stuff about the people in power.

really, Robin of Berkley is in power?

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: really, Robin of Berkley is in power?

*slaps forehead*

Uh...no...she writes articles about the ideology and mindset of those in power. This helps us understand how they think and act.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: *slaps forehead* Uh...no...she writes articles about the ideology and mindset of those in power. This helps us understand how they think and act.

yes....just like the KKK and Timothy McViegh help us with the ideology & mindset of conservatives, eh? This helps us understand how they think and act....

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: yes....just like the KKK and Timothy McViegh help us with the ideology & mindset of conservatives, eh? This helps us understand how they think and act....

Well, no, but thanks for playing.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Well, no, but thanks for playing.

oh, so all conservatives are not the same, yet all liberals are? nice. another insight to the conservative mindset?

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: oh, so all conservatives are not the same, yet all liberals are? nice. another insight to the conservative mindset?

I think he means the people who are currently in power and how they think.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: yes....just like the KKK and Timothy McViegh help us with the ideology & mindset of conservatives, eh? This helps us understand how they think and act....

no...intentionally deflective of the point. You are intentionally selecting people that are accepted as OUTLIERS of conservatives. MAINSTREAM conservatives PUBLICALLY DENOUNCE the behavior of the outliers you selected. I don't know this Robin person, but she had been rubbing elbows with MAINSTREAM liberals, not OUTLIER liberals. THAT is who she is discussing. Liberals that are lauded by other liberals.

After a while, although there is a range, you can get SOMEWHAT of a picture of who is a liberal and who is a conservative.

You picked a picture of people who say they are conservative, but the average CONSERVATIVE denounces.

The thread about Robin writing was her experience with people that were right in the mix of liberals, and appreciated and supported by them.


TOTALLY different scenarios. Therefore the "Robin" thread COULD have some merit, obviously taken with judgement and a grain of salt.

THIS thread on the other hand, while fun and entertaining in its way, was blatantly farcical from its inception and in no way a valid comparator.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: no...intentionally deflective of the point. You are intentionally selecting people that are accepted as OUTLIERS of conservatives. MAINSTREAM conservatives PUBLICALLY DENOUNCE the behavior of the outliers you selected. I don't know this Robin person, but she had been rubbing elbows with MAINSTREAM liberals, not OUTLIER liberals. THAT is who she is discussing. Liberals that are lauded by other liberals. After a while, although there is a range, you can get SOMEWHAT of a picture of who is a liberal and who is a conservative. You picked a picture of people who say they are conservative, but the average CONSERVATIVE denounces. The thread about Robin writing was her experience with people that were right in the mix of liberals, and appreciated and supported by them. TOTALLY different scenarios. Therefore the "Robin" thread COULD have some merit, obviously taken with judgement and a grain of salt. THIS thread on the other hand, while fun and entertaining in its way, was blatantly farcical from its inception and in no way a valid comparator.

of course this side & that side hand pick their poster boys/girls
but, those of us who can think for our selves find this kind of stuff STUPID.
I can also cherry pick offensive members for just about ANY group.
I find this "Robin of Berkely" to be a complete butt-wipe weenie. So, having her posted up as the person who represents ALL liberals is just as valid as posting up Tomothy McVeigh as representing ALL conservatives. He to made his opinion known to all. As does the KKK. In fact, the KKK has been at this ALOT longer than Robin of Berkley. Them damn hippy-dippy liberals letting the negros roam free. The KKK was in fact formed by actual conservative elected officals - not just writing about them. I find the KKK is a fine mirror to Robin of Berkley. idiots to the left - idiots to the right.

And of course, only those like you /\ are good upright citizens I suppose--whatever it is you happen to be----today.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: And of course, only those like you /\ are good upright citizens I suppose--whatever it is you happen to be----today.

yes...I am trying to pull myself into a single direction......but, being able to discuss this junk from different sides helps me see whats what.

but, I also take offense at being call a "good upright citizen"

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I find the KKK is a fine mirror to Robin of Berkley. idiots to the left - idiots to the right.

I'm just not seeing it, and I'm not trying to defend Robin of Berkely.

But Robin apparently was a very accepted, mainstream liberal in an accepted, mainstream liberal environment.

The KKK in MY lifetime has NEVER been an outlook on life accepted by the average, mainstream conservative.

I do agree that Robin doesn't reflect ALL liberals, as NO one can do that. However, she does give a glimpse into what a VERY common, typical accepted liberal was like and so could be instructive.

Something the KKK says is NEVER going to be instructive to conservatives or liberals for that matter.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: I'm just not seeing it, and I'm not trying to defend Robin of Berkely. But Robin apparently was a very accepted, mainstream liberal in an accepted, mainstream liberal environment. The KKK in MY lifetime has NEVER been an outlook on life accepted by the average, mainstream conservative. I do agree that Robin doesn't reflect ALL liberals, as NO one can do that. However, she does give a glimpse into what a VERY common, typical accepted liberal was like and so could be instructive. Something the KKK says is NEVER going to be instructive to conservatives or liberals for that matter.

to you.
the KKK influances young conservative men all the time, and has for a long long time.
and, when they were created - I think you could find a great number - in fact an overwhelming number - of conservatives who whole heartedly agreed with their outlook.
it took the liberals a long time to bring the negros out in the USA

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: I do agree that Robin doesn't reflect ALL liberals, as NO one can do that. However, she does give a glimpse into what a VERY common, typical accepted liberal was like and so could be instructive.

Also note that the "Robin of Berkeley" articles are not the only ones I've posted. I never said it was the end-all and be-all of descriptions of liberalism. But it's looking like pyrthian wants to oversimplify the issue.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Also note that the "Robin of Berkeley" articles are not the only ones I've posted. I never said it was the end-all and be-all of descriptions of liberalism. But it's looking like pyrthian wants to oversimplify the issue.

so, what is it then?
this is you cherry picking & presenting idiots, saying "look - this is liberalism"
so, I cherry picked idiots on the other side

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: so, what is it then? this is you cherry picking & presenting idiots, saying "look - this is liberalism" so, I cherry picked idiots on the other side

Look at Obama.

That is liberalism.

IMO

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: My friend Tom uses small, easy to understand words, short sentences, and simple pictures to explain the current Conservative Mindset: Full size version here: http://www.salon.com/comics...6/16/tomo/index.html

I know most of you watch Glen Beck on the FOX 'news' channel, but you may have missed this episode from earlier in the week (yeah, right):

quote Beck says, “Do you really, honestly believe that we have come to a place to where those very senior people in the highest offices of the land…Congress and the White House really will not do the right thing in the end, that they won’t see the error of their ways?” Scheuer then says this, “No sir, they will not….the only chance we have as a country right now is for Osama bin Laden to deploy and detonate a major weapon in the United States”, because, he said, the politicians in Washington prize their office and the praise of the media and the Europeans. Then Scheuer says, “Only Osama can execute an attack which will force Americans to demand that their government protect them effectively, consistently and with as much violence as necessary” , as Beck nods in approval of Scheuer’s comments.

Watch the clip.



Caricature? This BS is on the all conservative, self proclaimed "Number One Cable 'news' Network!"
This clown absolutely parrots the cartoon from last week that I posted earlier in this thread!
Glen Beck AGREES with him that we need another terrorist attack in order to defeat the godless liberals!
What TOTAL

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 07-02-2009).]

and so you assume that Conservatives anticipate (want) a terrorist attack to put them in power....
or maybe they are just stating the obvious, that the governments actions (or lack thereof) will cause (or allow) an attack against us.

Or you could just piece together your post word for word to make conservatives look like insane men who don't care about American lives.
Congratulations neptune, you have succeeded in making us look evil! Celebrate! You deserve it

Neither side is evil, one side has their own values and methods, and the other has different ones. If we do not realize this and learn to coexist SEPARATELY, then we will both go down in flames.

quote Originally posted by 4-mulaGT: and so you assume that Conservatives anticipate (want) a terrorist attack to put them in power....

Of course the POS does. He's the same guy that bragged about being able to live so cheaply off the dole. Real good, upstanding citizen.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Do liberals only know the caricatures of conervatives?

And why would that surprise you?
Well here ya go, a perfect example:

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Of course the POS does. He's the same guy that bragged about being able to live so cheaply off the dole. Real good, upstanding citizen.

I never said anything like that.
And I'm pretty sure I have never called any member of this forum a POS before, either.
Even though the thought has crossed my mind a time or two.
I'm 58 years old and I've been working since I was twelve.

I'm waiting......

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 07-02-2009).]

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: What TOTAL

Funny, I was thinking the same but it wasn't Beck that I was thinking it about...

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Do liberals only know the caricatures of conervatives?

Well here ya go, a perfect example:

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Glen Beck AGREES with him that we need another terrorist attack in order to defeat the godless liberals!

No, he agrees that it seems like that's what it might take to get people to put aside their childish partisan bickering, not that he wants it to happen.

If I had a friend that was always speeding, and another friend and I were talking about him and he says "The only thing that's going to get that fool to slow down is if he's stupid enough to hit someone" and I agree (or even simply <gasp> nod in possible agreement) that doesn't mean I want him to hit someone, only that I think he's too frickin' foolish to slowdown otherwise.

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 07-02-2009).]

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: I never said anything like that. And I'm pretty sure I have never called any member of this forum a POS before, either. Even though the thought has crossed my mind a time or two. I'm 58 years old and I've been working since I was twelve. I'm waiting......

There was a thread in which you mentioned what a great thing it was to only have to pay a few hundred dollars a year "to be part of this club called the United States", or words to that effect. IIRC, you were also slamming anyone who complained about their current tax burden. When it was pointed out that there are a great many people who pay far more than you, and that they were subsidizing your low tax rate, you pointedly ignored those posts.

It came across as smug, selfish, and yes, that you were bragging that others were footing your share of the bill. I can find the thread if you like.

And no, I don't believe you've used the term "POS" before. You have however, on numerous occasions, used other insults and name-calling when responding to those who disagree with you. Don't try to act wounded, you're too much of a hypocrite for that tactic to work.

OK, I'll type this very slowly so that You and Fierobear can (hopefully) keep up.
I'm PROUD to be an American.
I have no problem paying taxes (dues) as a citizen of the USA.
I've done it all my life.
I tried to use small, easy to understand words, both today, and in the quote that you posted.
And even though you and Bear don't 'get it' and probably never will, you aren't a POS.
You are a fellow American.
And as such, we are linked as brothers.
Whether you like it or not.
I'm just happy that sweetybear (and phranc) live a good distance away from me.
And the conservative caricatures are free to spout BS on FOX 'news' every night, and even here on PFF because this is America, dammit.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 07-02-2009).]

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: OK, I'll type this very slowly so that You and Fierobear can (hopefully) keep up. I'm PROUD to be an American. I have no problem paying taxes (dues) as a citizen of the USA. I've done it all my life. I tried to use small, easy to understand words, both today, and in the quote that you posted. And even though you and Bear don't 'get it' and probably never will, you aren't a POS. You are a fellow American. And as such, we are linked as brothers. Whether you like it or not. I'm just happy that sweetybear (and phranc) live a good distance away from me. And the caricatures are free to spout BS on FOX 'news' every night, and even here on on PFF because this is America, dammit.

well that all sounds nice.
Do you pay taxes now?
How do you feel about paying an extra 5% on EVERYTHING?
Just checking will you be covering bear/phranc/todd/uaana's cut?
Not even going to talk about health care.. Just Cap and Trade. Tax on "co2".. or Energy emissions
Obama wont allow nuclear, only windmills and solar cells. and he's touting this as a jobs bill.

So to keep this clear and simple
a. Where are the jobs going to come from (who's making the cells and mills)
b. What is the offset for a tax on every thing we consume?

quote Originally posted by Uaana: well that all sounds nice. Do you pay taxes now? bla bla bla .....

quote Topic: Examining Conservatives

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 07-02-2009).]

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE:

BlahBlah

"Conservative" "rule" pick Reagan as a starting point.. 30 yrs of growth, with limited deficit.

senate/congress and now exec branch take over of govt.. Stocks in the tank, markets in the tank, unemployment at 10% and climbing.. hmm. Carter years?? again
Foreign investment at a low.
Hmmm

Really sorry dude. Your guy "won".. but "WE" didnt win

If it makes you feel better I didnt think the "Repubs" were doing that great a job.. but then they didnt turn over and then piss all over the apple cart.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: OK, I'll type this very slowly so that You and Fierobear can (hopefully) keep up. I'm PROUD to be an American. I have no problem paying taxes (dues) as a citizen of the USA. I've done it all my life. I tried to use small, easy to understand words, both today, and in the quote that you posted. And even though you and Bear don't 'get it' and probably never will, you aren't a POS. You are a fellow American. And as such, we are linked as brothers. Whether you like it or not. I'm just happy that sweetybear (and phranc) live a good distance away from me. And the conservative caricatures are free to spout BS on FOX 'news' every night, and even here on PFF because this is America, dammit.

That's nice, but it doesn't mean your original post wasn't arrogant and selfish. How do you feel about the fact that many people pay thousands or even millions to subsidize you so that you can pay a few hundred for the same benefits they get?

For the record, I don't think you're a POS. I've never met you, so I can't make judgments on something I don't know. All I have are your posts, and for the most part, those are (like I said) arrogant, selfish, and insulting. They paint you as the worst type of partisan whore, one that doesn't present and defend an argument, but one that blindly adheres to party rhetoric. One that doesn't try to refute differing viewpoints, but simply attacks and insults them. One that instead of extolling the virtues of what he believes, mocks and belittles that which he doesn't. One who is quick to denounce when members of the other party are caught doing unsavory things, but is strangely silent when members of his own party are caught doing similar things. One who doesn't explain why his positions would make for good public policy, but rather paints opposing positions as laughable and idiotic. Instead of just telling us we're wrong, why don't you tell us why you're right?

[This message has been edited by GT86 (edited 07-03-2009).]

quote Topic: Examining Conservatives

I'm pretty sure that this isn't the "bash NEPTUNE" thread.
I made a valid point about conservative caricatures, which has been validated more than once in this thread, both by me, and by other Forum members.

But feel free to start a "Bash NEPTUNE" thread, if you like.
Its a free country.
I've been called childish names before, it doesn't bother me nearly as much as it diminishes you.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 07-03-2009).]

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: I'm pretty sure that this isn't the "bash NEPTUNE" thread. But feel free to start one, if you like. Its a free country.

So, am I to take it that yet again, you don't want to answer direct questions?

Well put, GT86

I could have said all this nicely worded, articulation...

quote Originally posted by GT86: That's nice, but it doesn't mean your original post wasn't arrogant and selfish. How do you feel about the fact that many people pay thousands or even millions to subsidize you so that you can pay a few hundred for the same benefits they get? For the record, I don't think you're a POS. I've never met you, so I can't make judgments on something I don't know. All I have are your posts, and for the most part, those are (like I said) arrogant, selfish, and insulting. They paint you as the worst type of partisan whore, one that doesn't present and defend an argument, but one that blindly adheres to party rhetoric. One that doesn't try to refute differing viewpoints, but simply attacks and insults them. One that instead of extolling the virtues of what he believes, mocks and belittles that which he doesn't. One who is quick to denounce when members of the other party are caught doing unsavory things, but is strangely silent when members of his own party are caught doing similar things. One who doesn't explain why his positions would make for good public policy, but rather paints opposing positions as laughable and idiotic. Instead of just telling us we're wrong, why don't you tell us why you're right?

...but I've lost patience with Neptune. So I just said "POS", because i'm sick of the attitude of people like his. Smarmy, arrogant, pleased with themselves because their guys won the election, but don't give a goddamn when one of theirs gets caught. But will go OUT OF THEIR WAY to start a thread about someone from the other party getting busted. Doesn't care that the news media is in the administrations pocket, Senators and ACORN stealing elections, but hey...it's OK, because it's one of THEIR guys. Yeah, right. Partisan hack.

Slavery that is what this is all about. The government has become the master and we the slaves. The government will take care of us as children. Keep us healthy as laborers and lure the carrot of retirement in front of out noses so that we keep things going. I read about "dues" to live here, yet no one seems to see that the dues will have to be 100% of our income to pay the interest on the debt alone. Then the government will have to take over housing because we don't have money to buy houses or pay rent. I had a professor in college tell the class that the only job that government has is to do for the people what they cannot do for themselves. His example was an individual cannot stop an invasion. It seems that the current winds have decided that government is a safety net for all. And that the job of government is to do for the individual what the individual cannot do for him/herself.

Growing up my parents never lifted a finger when I made mistakes. When I made mistakes I had to deal with the consequences. Personally we as a country are headed to failure, the people in charge keep passing the buck and covering up the mistakes. I look at it this way. The people running this country are drilling holes in a dam, because someone want the water to go here. Then after so many holes they close the gate a little. Then they drill some more holes because some people want the water over there and close the gate a little more... eventually there will be complete failure because they didn't see the whole time they were damaging the structure as a whole, and the damage that results will be completely beyond repair. Yep that's change.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Do liberals only know the caricatures of conervatives?

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: And why would that surprise you? Well here ya go, a perfect example:

So the answer is "because that is what the media presents"?

Can California Be Sold on eBay's Former Leader?

By George Will
SANTA MONICA, Calif. -- California's campaigns introduce candidates not only to the state's voters but to its immensity. In Bakersfield, Meg Whitman, 52, the former CEO of eBay who is campaigning for the 2010 Republican gubernatorial nomination, learned about carrots.

In 1968, the Grimm brothers were selling vegetables at a roadside stand in Anaheim. They moved to Bakersfield and today Grimmway Farms and one rival provide 80 percent of the nation's carrots, partly because the brothers figured out how to make the vegetables pleasingly uniform in shape.


Who knew? Whitman didn't, and the story, which she tells enthusiastically and at length, delights her because it confirms her conviction that California "was built by intellectual capital," and not just the Hollywood and Silicon Valley sort.

California's cascading crises prefigure America's future unless Washington reverses the growth of government subservient to organized labor. The state cannot pay its bills, poorly educates its young, and its taxation punishes whatever success that its suffocating regulatory regime does not prevent.

Whitman, a Roman candle of facts and ideas, insists, "We do not have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem of epic proportions." Twenty-five percent of California's revenues come from income taxes paid by the 144,000 richest taxpayers, so "if one of them leaves, it's a really bad thing." Lots have left. Some never really arrive. Pierre Omidyar, after founding eBay in San Jose, resided in Nevada, which has no income tax.

Whitman says 50 percent of California's spending on education, grades K through 12, goes into overhead, not classrooms, compared to 20 percent in, for example, Connecticut. The public education lobby likes it that way, but because California elementary school students rank 46th among the states in math, 48th in reading, 49th in science, it is, Whitman says tersely, hard for defenders of the status quo to "hide behind the results."

She endorses a convention to revise California's Constitution, which was written in 1879 and has been amended 518 times. She would reduce the number of state Assembly districts (there are 80) because the Legislature is cumbersome, and would modify the initiative and referendum process.

Voters have discombobulated budgeting by mandating spending without providing revenues, other than promiscuous borrowing. Whitman favors making it harder -- requiring more signatures -- to get measures on ballots, limiting the number on ballots in particular elections, and requiring the ballot language to specify the costs of measures being voted on.

She emphatically opposes a change that many proponents of a new Constitution favor -- eliminating the requirement of a two-thirds vote of both houses of the Legislature to pass a budget or raise taxes. Without those provisions, "taxes would be so high we might not have a state left." Today's most pressing problem -- government in the grip of public employees unions -- is, she thinks, ripe for improvement: 85 percent of the state's unionized employees are working without contracts.

To change Sacramento, which Los Angeles, San Francisco and San Diego television stations barely cover, she must find new ways to communicate with a disconnected public. Because California is second among the states only to Wisconsin in Internet connectivity, she hopes to directly arouse the state for challenges such as modernizing the water storage and delivery system that was designed for a California with half today's population.

"There is," she says, "plenty of water in California -- we can't get it from where it is to where it is needed." The result, partly because of aggressive environmentalism, is "a slow-motion Katrina" in some Central Valley towns where unemployment is above 40 percent.

Whitman, like her rivals for the nomination (state Insurance Commissioner Steve Poizner, another Silicon Valley success, and former Rep. Tom Campbell), is pro-choice. That normally is a problem with a significant portion of the Republican nominating electorate, but the collapse of California's once-characteristic confidence has concentrated minds on other things.

Because legislators feel validated by volume, the Legislature is, she says, a "bill machine." She vows to wield the veto power as vigorously as did Republican Govs. Pete Wilson and George Deukmejian, who cast 1,890 and 2,298, vetoes respectively. The current calamitous governor wanted, as movie stars do, to be loved, but Whitman says tersely: "Getting elected is a popularity contest. Governing is the opposite."

Although California is a blue state, it has had Republican governors for 30 of the last 43 years. The Republican revival nationally might begin here next year.