All this and the Terminator wants to expand the Bart system. Yeah, let me stand in line- I can't wait to get my Bart ticket.

I guess I'll be by-passing Bart from this point forward.


http://sfist.com/2009/02/27...bart_lady.php#_login

Oh dont stop using it now. That kind of stuff is half the fun of living in that area.

http://www.kron.com/News/Ar...sengers/Default.aspx


When you have dozens of people who witness the shooting, you don't stand a chance.


OAKLAND (KRON) – A paramedic who witnessed the fatal shooting of Oscar Grant at the Fruitvale BART station early New Year’s Day says she saw a “military looking officer” knee Grant in the face.

Alika Rogers was on the train at the time of the shooting and is the third witness for the defense. On Wednesday, she testified that that same officer who hit Grant, also punched several transit passengers who were lined up against the platform wall.

The fourth witness for the defense, BART Officer Jon Wooffinden, was Johnannes Mehserle’s partner the night of the fatal shooting. While on the stand he said Mehserle was driving the patrol car and that they received several calls about fights at BART stations.

They first responded to a report of a fight at the West Oakland station, but found nothing when they arrived.

Next, they received a call for another fight at the Fruitvale station. Wooffinden said they listened to the police radio as they drove and heard a lot of commotion with yelling and screaming. He testified that this is uncommon, he’d never heard anything like that before and it had an effect on him. He says his adrenaline was rushing and rising as they headed to the station.

KRON 4 and KRON4.com want to know what you think about the Mehserle hearing. Leave your comments below. All comments are held for moderation so please don't refresh your page or re-post the comments.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: When you have dozens of people who witness the shooting, you don't stand a chance.

I'll reserve judgment until a verdict is rendered.

To me, it looked like an accident.
One that could have been avoided.
The officer did not follow proper prociedure.
His gun should have never left his holster at that particular time.

Just what I see & think.

A Change of Venue: http://cbs5.com/local/bart....trial.2.1321448.html

Let Los Angeles handle it, hehe.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Frecking Bart Police are at it again. Bart commuters recording a suspect laying face down, handcuffed, and with officer knee on his back. Then suddenly, the officer draws his weapon and shoots the suspect in the back. From viewing the video the officer appears "shocked." It's been several days and still no word from the officer involved. Why? To gather his story and make it stick. Big problem.... commuters recorded the killing! The family is now seeking 25 million and I hope they get it and the officer involve put in jail.

Im not saying this is right, and he should goto jail, but what about the thousands of cops that went to work and just did their job? The press is always about the 'bad apples'.

I get the same thing in my ( also government related ) job, all you ever hear about is the people scamming someone or other. But not about the other 3000 local workers just doing their job trying to make a living and help citizens out. We are not all bad...

Sorry, just an early sunday morning rant.. ill go back to bed..

[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 11-22-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Nurb432: Im not saying this is right, and he should goto jail, but what about the thousands of cops that went to work and just did their job? The press is always about the 'bad apples'. I get the same thing in my ( also government related ) job, all you ever hear about is the people scamming someone or other. But not about the other 3000 local workers just doing their job trying to make a living and help citizens out. We are not all bad... Sorry, just an early sunday morning rant.. ill go back to bed..

It all has to do with the consequences of your actions. Truck drivers are held to a much higher standard than the average driver on the road. The reason is because if they make a mistake, people can get killed.

Yes, there are lots of good cops out there. The problem is that because of the position of authority and the power that they wield, they are held to a much higher standard. Cops literally have the ability to decide life and death. In this case, the error caused a death.

quote Originally posted by Nurb432: Im not saying this is right, and he should goto jail, but what about the thousands of cops that went to work and just did their job? The press is always about the 'bad apples'. I get the same thing in my ( also government related ) job, all you ever hear about is the people scamming someone or other. But not about the other 3000 local workers just doing their job trying to make a living and help citizens out. We are not all bad... Sorry, just an early sunday morning rant.. ill go back to bed..

I guess at one time- a used car saleman once had a good reputation, but somebody must have ruined/condoned/turned a blind eye thus all are lumped into the same group (banking insitution too). You'd be hard pressed trying to find a profession that's on the up-and-up.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: I guess at one time- a used car saleman once had a good reputation, but somebody must have ruined/condoned/turned a blind eye thus all are lumped into the same group (banking insitution too). You'd be hard pressed trying to find a profession that's on the up-and-up.

yep, ask 10 people if they trust car mechanics.

again?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRI...e.scuffle/index.html

(CNN) -- An Oakland, California-area transit police officer was captured on video forcing the head of an unruly man into a heavy-duty glass window, which shattered, during an arrest at a passenger station, authorities said.

The video, posted on YouTube, shows an unidentified Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) officer in a scuffle with a man identified by authorities as Michael Joseph Gibson, 37, of San Leandro, California.

Gibson, who appears disgruntled and gesturing while on a train at the West Oakland station, is pulled off the train by an officer, who has the man in an arm grip.

The officer forcibly walks the man toward the station wall, which is topped by large widows, and one window shatters as the officer appears to force the man against it.

The incident happened about 5:40 p.m. Saturday (8:40 p.m. ET), according to a statement from BART police Sunday. The officer sustained facial lacerations and a concussion, while Gibson suffered cuts to his hand, forearm, palm and a cut to his head. Both were treated at a hospital.

"This is a use-of-force case that we will thoroughly investigate," BART Police Patrol Commander Daniel O. Hartwig said in the statement. "We will review all available information and video and are requesting anybody with any other video or information to please come forward."

Once released, Gibson was booked into the Santa Rita County jail. He faces charges of battery on a police officer with injury and resisting arrest -- both felonies -- and public intoxication, a misdemeanor.

The officer was placed on leave due to his injuries, authorities said

[This message has been edited by 86SEin93003 (edited 11-23-2009).]

I love how people always feel the need to criticize others for a job they themselves won't do. But somehow they always know whats best and don't ever seem to make a mistake. And when a mistake is made (human trait) they use that as a way to stereotype.

quote Originally posted by DR650SE: I love how people always feel the need to criticize others for a job they themselves won't do. But somehow they always know whats best and don't ever seem to make a mistake. And when a mistake is made (human trait) they use that as a way to stereotype.

?

Gimme a gun and a badge, I'll do 1000X better than some of these asshats. Seriously you guys that think most (NOT ALL) of these guys give a crap whether you live or die make me laugh. You think they will let me? I am legally deaf, and I was told years ago that I could go through training, but not to expect a job because I wasn't able to hear. That's when I changed my major from Criminal justice to General Education.

It's true we are a bunch of "Armchair Quarterbacks", should we just ignore whatever a law enforcement officer does and just go about our lives?

Brad

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: It's true we are a bunch of "Armchair Quarterbacks", should we just ignore whatever a law enforcement officer does and just go about our lives? Brad

I'm saying don't stereo type. Saying all cops are this way is a stereotype, everything should be taken on a case by case basis. Of course I think if he was found to be in the wrong then HE should be dealt with. We are a bunch of "armchair quarterbacks" and thats my point. Same goes for service members. Until you've driven down a street with IED's, RPGs and all the other acronyms, then how can anyone reasonable understand what the person is going through? There are a lot of factors to consider. Each person should be dealt with accordingly, and I don't think any group should be held accountable for the actions of a few. Will that ever happen? probably not, but those are my thoughts.

[This message has been edited by DR650SE (edited 11-23-2009).]

Circumstances don't justify inappropriate behavior.
I don't really care what a law officer is "going through." It doesn't give them permission to be anything less than professional in performing their job. This has to be the case because when they screw up - either intentionally or no - people's lives can be ruined or ended.

Is it fair? No.
Are cops underpaid? Yes.

Would a cop give a doctor the benefit of the doubt about what he may be going through if the doc decided to take a scalpel to an unruly patient's arm to get him to be quiet? Maybe that doctor has been working the ER for 30 hours straight and this guy just called him a quack. Would that justify his actions?

What do you think would happen to you if a cop approached you after working 30 hours straight on New Year's weekend and you call him a pig when he asks for your ID? He's under stress, you know.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Circumstances don't justify inappropriate behavior.

If circumstances justified it, it wouldn't be inappropriate behavior.

quote Originally posted by DR650SE: I love how people always feel the need to criticize others for a job they themselves won't do. But somehow they always know whats best and don't ever seem to make a mistake. And when a mistake is made (human trait) they use that as a way to stereotype.

There is making a mistake and then there is knowingly doing something wrong. Was that a "mistake" shooting a handcuffed man in the back? Was that a "mistake" breaking a window with a man's head?

If the cop misspells my name on a ticket, that is a mistake. I don't believe the other two are mistakes at all. Those are abuses.

quote Originally posted by DR650SE: If circumstances justified it, it wouldn't be inappropriate behavior.

Then what does it matter if we understand what they go through, other than to empathize or better appreciate them? It has no bearing on whether their actions were appropriate or not.

We just had our local police shoot a man last weekend. The man had a group of four threatening individuals who would not leave his property, so he brandished a baseball bat in hand and took after the youths. The police said they saw the man chasing the would be troublemakers, and after telling him to drop the bat fearing for the wellbeing of the four youths, opened fire on him. As always, they are using this situation to tell the public to avoid incidents like this, never try to take vigilante action against thieves or criminals, rather let them do their thing and call the police afterwards to let them deal with it. I hope the guy sues the police for all they are worth. (Which is not much of anything, in my books)

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/sa...d-rcmp-shooting.html

[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 11-23-2009).]

quote Originally posted by loafer87gt: We just had our local police shoot a man last weekend. The man had a group of four threatening individuals who would not leave his property, so he brandished a baseball bat in hand and took after the youths. The police said they saw the man chasing the would be troublemakers, and after telling him to drop the bat fearing for the wellbeing of the four youths, opened fire on him. As always, they are using this situation to tell the public to avoid incidents like this, never try to take vigilante action against thieves or criminals, rather let them do their thing and call the police afterwards to let them deal with it. I hope the guy sues the police for all they are worth. (Which is not much of anything, in my books) http://www.cbc.ca/canada/sa...d-rcmp-shooting.html

They are damn lucky there was a tape of the incident. Otherwise as we call it here in the states, the "blue wall" would come down and the cops would cover for each other.

My advice to anyone that has any dealings with law enforcement, even if you are the victim, record everything on a voice recorder and document everything. If law enforcement screws something up, they will throw you under the bus before they admit any mistakes were made.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: There is making a mistake and then there is knowingly doing something wrong. Was that a "mistake" shooting a handcuffed man in the back? Was that a "mistake" breaking a window with a man's head? If the cop misspells my name on a ticket, that is a mistake. I don't believe the other two are mistakes at all. Those are abuses.

I didn't bother to waste my time reading the article, if the guy posed no threat, then yes it was wrong to shoot him in the back. I wasn't there, so I don't know the reality of the situation. There are ways that an individual can pose a real and dangerous threat, even in handcuffs. Perhaps his rules of force were not followed properly, who knows. What I'm saying is to let the evidence decided before all cops are stereotyped as currupt.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Then what does it matter if we understand what they go through, other than to empathize or better appreciate them? It has no bearing on whether their actions were appropriate or not.

Thats my point, knowing what they go through gives you a better appreciation of the decisions they are forced to make. You see on the news that a civilian was shot in Iraq by a soldier and everyone is out to hang the soldier. You don't hear how they watched thier best friends body become mangled to a piece of meat from a female suicide bomber. They have seconds to make a decision, right or wrong. Rules of force don't always look out for you. If your a vehicle gunner, and you have a vehicle speeding towards your M1114, what are you going to do? You have to signal to them to stop, then you have to shout at them to stop, then you have to show your weapon, then you have to show intent by racking a round in the chamber, then you have to point the weapon at the car, then you have to shout again, then Aim and shoot. At each step you have to give the person a chance to stop. If that car is coming up at your vehicle from 100M, at a rate of 65mph, then how long do you have before impact? Unless they detonate before hand. How long does it take to run through all the steps of the ROE? These are the types of restrictions that soldiers are faced with. Like I stated earlier, they have seconds till they become a statistic to the DOD. So the person in the vehicle turned out to be speeding to pickup thier wife from work, how does a soldier know that? I'm sure police go though the same type of thing. Bottom line is we don't know the whole story. Everything has to be taken case by case, and prejudice stemming from media speculation only makes things worse.

This is what happens when there's a corrupt officer on the force. The first round of settlements, but more to come. In the meantime, expect Bridge and Bart fees to increase and city officials asking for more money.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-b...BAFV1BONH6.DTL&tsp=1

BART pays $1.5M to provide for Grant's daughter

Wednesday, January 27, 2010

The deal, which had been pre-approved by BART's Board of Directors, closes part of a federal civil rights lawsuit brought by Grant's family that initially sought $50 million. Co-plaintiff Wanda Johnson, Grant's mother, did not settle.

Attorneys for BART and Grant's family struck the deal over the phone Wednesday afternoon, after an 11-hour settlement conference Tuesday. The agreement was with Sophina Mesa, who was Grant's girlfriend and is raising their daughter, Tatiana Grant.

The lawsuit stemmed from one of BART's darkest chapters, a video-recorded shooting that prompted protests - some violent - and exposed a police force that some experts described as in dire need of reform.

"No matter what anyone's opinion of the case may be, the sad fact remains this incident has left Tatiana without a father," BART board President James Fang said.

Grant, a 22-year-old supermarket worker from Hayward, was shot in the back at BART's Fruitvale Station in Oakland by an officer who had been trying to handcuff and arrest him in the wake of a fight.

The officer, 28-year-old Johannes Mehserle, quit the BART force six days later and now faces a murder trial in Los Angeles County. His attorneys say he thought he had his Taser in his hand when he fired a single shot with his pistol.

The lawsuit named Mehserle; Officer Anthony Pirone, who first detained Grant, forced him to the ground and made the decision to arrest him; Pirone's partner, Officer Marysol Domenici; former BART Police Chief Gary Gee; and current General Manager Dorothy Dugger.

Pirone and Domenici remain on paid leave as BART decides whether to punish or fire them. Gee retired last month.

BART's civil attorney, Dale Allen, said the payout reflected a number of factors, including settlements in similar cases and a desire to "protect Tatiana through her lifetime."

John Burris, an attorney representing Tatiana and Mesa, did not immediately return calls seeking comment.

Mehserle's attorney, Michael Rains, said his client was "very pleased" to learn of the settlement.

"Oscar Grant's daughter certainly deserves to have some economic security in her life because she doesn't have her father around," Rains said. "It was the right thing to do."
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-b...tsp=1#ixzz0dtEgxXZk.

Six dollars please!!!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-b...MN0D1BO1M7.DTL&tsp=1

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 01-28-2010).]

When one cop is trying to cuff a resisting suspect, if the other cop is going to act as cover officer, then he needs to take his hands off the suspect completely, and concentrate on what he's doing, including scanning for threats. It appeared that Mehserle was holding his gun in one hand, and trying to assist the handcuffing with the other. Bad procedure all the way. If he's going to assist the cuffing officer then he needed to holster and secure his weapon first.

If he was resisting, and *all* the guy had was a cellphone, this is how easily you can get killed with one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd1SRtkhh-U

A very few even function as a phone.

IMHO, it appears (in the videos that the officer who was fired (on administrated paid leave for 1-year) was facing in the other direction and didn't see the kick.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-b...03/26/BAD21CLCU8.DTL

(03-25) 18:08 PDT OAKLAND -- BART's police department has fired an officer who helped detain train rider Oscar Grant before he was fatally shot by a second officer at Oakland's Fruitvale Station on Jan. 1, 2009.


Marysol Domenici, 29, was fired Wednesday by interim Police Chief Dash Butler. He followed the recommendation of a law firm BART hired to do an independent internal affairs probe into the shooting by former Officer Johannes Mehserle, who faces a murder trial this summer.

Butler confirmed the move Thursday in a brief interview. He said he could not go into detail about the reasons for the firing because of privacy rights.

Domenici's attorney, Alison Berry Wilkinson, said her client had done nothing wrong, was a scapegoat in a "political decision" meant to placate the public, and would appeal her firing to an arbitrator.

Domenici had been on paid leave since the shooting along with her partner, Anthony Pirone, who was the first officer to detain Grant, 22, and four friends after a fight on a train. Pirone struck Grant at least once and made the decision to arrest him for allegedly resisting officers.

Mehserle then shot Grant, who was unarmed, while trying to handcuff him. His attorneys have argued that he meant to stun Grant with a Taser and accidentally used his pistol.

BART has not decided whether to fire Pirone.

Grant's shooting, captured on video, prompted community outrage and led to several reforms at BART. Whether Pirone and Domenici - who are key witnesses in Mehserle's case - deserve to be punished has long been a point of contention.

John Burris, a lawyer for Grant's family, called the firing appropriate, saying Grant would be alive if not for the actions of Domenici and Pirone.

Burris said Domenici had given false testimony at Mehserle's preliminary hearing, exaggerating the danger that seven BART officers faced on the train platform.

Lynette Sweet, a member of BART's board of directors, said the firing "sends the correct message to the public that we do hold people accountable for their actions."

Wilkinson said her client "recognizes this is a political decision." Domenici was faulted not for anything she did on the train platform, Wilkinson said, but for the way she recounted the incident to investigators and in her court testimony.

For example, Wilkinson said, Domenici was accused of not reporting that Pirone struck Grant with a knee. "I have video evidence that her back was turned," Wilkinson said. "I don't know how she's supposed to report something she didn't see."

The attorney called the internal affairs report by the Meyers Nave law firm "a hit piece with no factual basis. The conclusions were incredibly flawed and, quite frankly, BART should ask for its money back."

Kim Colwell, who led the investigation team for Meyers Nave, said she could not comment on the report's contents, but added, "I can say unequivocally that it was a solid, thorough, thoughtful and fair investigation."

Butler, a former Berkeley chief who joined BART in late December, said, "I've been a police chief for a long time, and I don't think anyone has ever said I did things out of political correctness. I have to make the right decision, and that's all there is."

Butler says he is not seeking the BART chief's job on a permanent basis

This thread is still going?

quote Originally posted by slinger: This thread is still going?

Yep.

http://cbs5.com/local/bart....trial.2.1746894.html

Witnesses began taking the stand Friday in the Los Angeles murder trial of Johannes Mehserle, an ex-BART police officer.

A woman who recorded video of the shooting of unarmed Oscar Grant III by the former transit officer says she didn't see the man resist or fight with officers.

Karina Vargas testified in Los Angeles Superior Court that she watched as officers tried to control a group of young men on the Fruitvale station BART platform on New Year's Day 2009.

Vargas said she recorded then-officer Johannes Mehserle, as he tried to handcuff Grant. She said Grant was cooperating before he was shot by the officer.

Now 28-year-old Mehserle is accused of killing 22-year-old Grant while he was lying on the ground.

In opening statements, prosecutors called the killing of Grant intentional and unnecessary. They contend Grant was not resisting arrest when Mehserle shot him.

The defense in the meantime maintains Grant was resisting, and said that Mehserle accidentally shot him with his service pistol when he meant to use his Taser.

quote Originally posted by slinger: This thread is still going?

Seriously. All this over an accidental shooting? I feel for the family but jeez this isn't exactly the St. Valentines Day Massacre.

The verdict is suppose to be read today and the city is getting ready for a riot? They are looking for second degree murder.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Seriously. All this over an accidental shooting? I feel for the family but jeez this isn't exactly the St. Valentines Day Massacre.

Imagine if the guy accidently shot the cop ?? Would you still say the same thing ?

Sometimes if you reverse things you get a different perspective.

15-minute more minutes!

http://www.kron.com/

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-b...07/08/BAM21EBDOD.DTL

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 07-08-2010).]

quote Originally posted by exoticse: Imagine if the guy accidently shot the cop ?? Would you still say the same thing ? Sometimes if you reverse things you get a different perspective.

I'm not sure how someone would be able to "accidentally" shoot a cop while being arrested so the anaogly does not make sense. But if you saw the video you knew immediately that the cop realized he screwed-up and grabbed his pistol instead of his taser. The shock on his face was unmistakable.

I think the lesson here is not that white cops hate black people (even though some people stuck in the 1920's would have you beleive that). But that tasers are too much like pistols and need to be redesigned to avoid confusion.

This was a tragedy. But is was an obvious accident.

Mehserle convicted of involuntary manslaughter

I think those cops should have shot all those Mother*******

quote Originally posted by Toddster: This was a tragedy. But is was an obvious accident.

The "victim" was a gang member whose dad is in one of the most infamous Prisons in CA. Tragedy? Accident, yes.

11-months. I'm sure they'll be plenty of job offers. Maybe there's a slot on Faux News.

Ex-BART cop Mehserle released from jail

(06-13) 08:52 PDT LOS ANGELES --

Former BART police Officer Johannes Mehserle was released from a Los Angeles jail early today after completing his time for involuntary manslaughter for fatally shooting an unarmed passenger on New Year's Day 2009.

E-mail and phone notifications made at 12:01 a.m. today said Mehserle had been released, and the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department's online inmate locator also said he had been freed.

Officials have declined to discuss specifics about Mehserle's release.

Mehserle, 29, was sentenced to two years for shooting Oscar Grant in the back while the 22-year-old Hayward man lay face down on the platform at Oakland's Fruitvale BART Station after being pulled from a train.

Mehserle has been imprisoned in Los Angeles County Jail since being convicted July 8. He was eligible for release with credit for time served before his trial and what is known as "good time" credit: one day for every day spent behind bars.

Cephus Johnson, Grant's uncle, was outside the jail early today, trying without success to catch a glimpse of Mehserle.

Mehserle's attorney, Michael Rains, has said he and his staff have received death threats and his office has been the target of vandalism since he took the case. He has said Alameda County prosecutors "succumbed to mob pressure to charge this case as a murder."

Mehserle testified that he had thought he was firing his Taser stun gun instead of his pistol as he was trying to arrest Grant for allegedly resisting an officer. The case drew widespread outrage, prompting the trial to be moved from Alameda County to Los Angeles. The jury there acquitted Mehserle of murder.

Rains said at least eight other law-enforcement officers across the country have similarly mistaken their Tasers for their service weapons and were never criminally charged "and, in some cases, not even disciplined."

On Sunday, several hundred protesters marched peacefully from the Fruitvale BART Station to 14th Street and Broadway in downtown Oakland.

"A crime was committed, but it wasn't paid for. This needs to stop," said Daryl Johnson, Grant's uncle.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-b...CV.DTL#ixzz1PBYNnPRZ