quote Originally posted by fieroboom: So... all the thugs are only black?!? And let me guess.. "Dad-burned South will rise agin!!!".... Right? I f*$@ing HATE racists. You should leave now. As long as there are people like you, no generation will ever have a better shot.

You have no concept of reality. The "thugs" are black because of geography, not because of racism. The East Bay is a very Afro Centric community (is that PC enough for you?). If you go to Tokyo, the thugs would likely be Japanese. Surprise: Oakland has a lot of black folks.

just goes to show you another police officer who puts on a badge holds a gun and thinks he can do anything. clearley another misuse of police power i agree with the family murder charges should be imposed on the officer, not to mention the fact if he had a credible thret on his hands 1st off there were enough officers there that no kind of wepon should be pulled and in that case if one was needed the use of a stun gun would have been more appropriate at the time.

quote Originally posted by 86fierofun: MadCurl, you need to do a ride along with the local police. Seriously, you should do a ride along with your police department. Make sure you go into a high crime area too.

Forget that. The officer I'm ridn' with might forget who he's with and shoot my black behind.

Seriously, it's happening in Greece too. Cop shoots teen, cop resigns and all hell breaks loose.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 01-08-2009).]

quote Originally posted by 86fierofun: This is a race issue. It's already brought up by pokey and boom. It will be a race issue. MadCurl, you need to do a ride along with the local police. You need to know what they go through. Do you know what it's like to have a job, where every moment of the day people want to kill you? Where they hate you, distrust you, want to do every thing to ruin you? And you're trying to help them? Not everyone is trying to do a massive cover up. I don't live in Cali so I don't know what things are like there, but you are taking a very blinded opinion on this. Seriously, you should do a ride along with your police department. Make sure you go into a high crime area too. I can't believe the people who are making this out to be a cold blooded murder. The whole time in the altercation this individual is resisting arrest. Two officers cant cuff him (don't tell me that's more than enough too, as I've seen suspects get away from 4+ cops before being tazed), and right before he was shot he had his hand underneath his body (as far as I could tell from the two videos posted). That is a big fear for an officer who is in a hand to hand altercation. That being said I really don't know why the officer went for his gun. In a hand to hand altercation, that is the last thing you want. He obviously did look surprised, so the only thing I can think of is maybe he's ambidextrous and recently switched sides where he carried is gun vs tazer? He did screw up, but that was not cold blooded.

and also to the last part of this you would feel the diffrence between a tazer and a pistol in your hands tazer is a lot lighter. also not fun to get shot by one either ,

quote Originally posted by madcurl: The officer I'm ridn' with might forget who he's with and shoot my black behind.

LOL

Now we now "why" the silence from the officer....plead the fifth against self-incrinination. [/QUOTE]

Let me say first of all, he deserves to "pay." for what he has done. However, nobody ever complains when criminals(perhaps I should have written other criminals) plead the fifth. I don't see this differently. I doubt that he'll ever take the stand. Drug into court-yes, but take the stand-no.

Here is some CLASSIC OAKLAND for you. Wonderful place that it is.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-b...amp;feed=rss.bayarea


(01-08) 14:00 PST Oakland -- Oakland residents recalled a night of terror and frustration Thursday as they swept shattered glass off the sidewalks and wondered why rioters vented their rage on seemingly random, innocent victims.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: I agree with you Curly. I do make it sound like they are pansies. In a way considering they took a job in the roughest part of the Bay Area they are pansies. They are afraid and they deal with that by exerting extreme authority that is over the line. My point wasn't that it is just a black issue anyway. This time it was and a lot of the time it is but they are way overboard with the way they treat PEOPLE in general also.

If they go overboard with PEOPLE in general, which is this a black issue just because a black person is involved?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: If they go overboard with PEOPLE in general, which is this a black issue just because a black person is involved?

THere were several black people involved here plus the crowds could have really made them nervous. Things can really get out of hand fast in Oakland.
I think in this instance the Cop was over reacting because of this.
It isn't an either/or thing these cops are down right mean and fearful. THere are places cops won't even answer calls. You will never see a cop alone outside the business district or Jack London Area and even then they are not far apart.

My brother in law used to be a nice guy before he transfered to Oakland to take a narc position. If he doesn't get himself killed he will certainly live out the rest of his life a major paranoid ******* .

There must be other cities like Oakland out there.
BTW Oakland kinda speads around several cities because of Bart.

I remember a few years ago John Szpara and I were doing some tech equipment work at an Oakland MacDonalds. They had a huge mountain of a guy at the door doing the bouncer thing. He checked everyone in. Really just not a great place.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: THere are places cops won't even answer calls.

Thats funny, I didn't know that happend to other people too..
I got lost in compton once and two dudes jumped in the back seat of my car "dodge neon" at a street light, my friend jack and I where like WTF!! they said they had nowhere else to go and they where not leaving, one had the balls to ask me for money because he claimed he had just got outa jail. I pulled into a 7-11 and went inside where they couldn't see me and called the police, the dispatcher asked me where i was, what i was wearing and they where wearing etc. after giving the cross streets she transfered me to some guy I think an officer it sounded like he wasn't even on a phone, maybe a walkie talkie, but he told me If I was down there i was a criminal as well. I tried telling him I was lost but the last thing I got out of him was that they don't go where barbwire hangs in front yards. to this day I dunno what the **** it means, I even google it every once in a while thinking about it and I can't find any qoutes

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: THere were several black people involved here plus the crowds could have really made them nervous. Things can really get out of hand fast in Oakland. I think in this instance the Cop was over reacting because of this. It isn't an either/or thing these cops are down right mean and fearful. THere are places cops won't even answer calls. You will never see a cop alone outside the business district or Jack London Area and even then they are not far apart. My brother in law used to be a nice guy before he transfered to Oakland to take a narc position. If he doesn't get himself killed he will certainly live out the rest of his life a major paranoid ******* . There must be other cities like Oakland out there. BTW Oakland kinda speads around several cities because of Bart. I remember a few years ago John Szpara and I were doing some tech equipment work at an Oakland MacDonalds. They had a huge mountain of a guy at the door doing the bouncer thing. He checked everyone in. Really just not a great place.

I guess my point is, there are unruly whites as well as blacks (and other races). You acknowledge the problem with the police isn't just with blacks - so why does this incident become a black issue just because blacks were involved?

But from your description of Oakland, it sounds like the cops would be fearful pretty much all the time. Not good when this incident shows civilians die when cops get nervous.

Goodness. How about a dose of reality. Cabrini Green in Chicago had the same thing for DECADES. There. Does that help you? EXTREME violence in those projects. Police were EXTREMELY afraid to work in that housing project. Why? Because they SHOULD have been. They WERE in REAL danger of being killed every single blessed day.

That is NOT a working environment that leads you to do your best, most reasoned work. It leads to a very REACTIVE environment, not an environment where you are consistently doing your best judgement.

News flash. Cabrini Green was almost entirely black. Almost 100 percent of the violence against police was by blacks. Guess who they were most afraid of getting hurt by, and most over-reacted to?

That ISN'T racism (as people are throwing it around). That IS profiling. For self-preservation.


Now you guys needs to actually TRY to LISTEN to what pokeyfiero is saying. He was TRYING to explain a plausible reason WHY someone would use such off-the-charts, way-out-of-bounds, completely indefensible judgement and action. His suspicion is that the guy wasn't using judgement, he was responding in fear. The fear is based on the REALITY of that part of Oakland. In that part of Oakland, the VAST MAJORITY of threat of violence to police originates from blacks. That isn't pokeyfiero's fault. And you can put blinders on and just call him a racist for acknowledging THE FACTUAL REALITY. But you would be being unfair to him. So the relevance to the person who got over-reacted to was that the BART officer saw a black guy and so saw the kind of person that might hurt him.

Racism would be "I don't like him because he is black". In this part of Oakland, that isn't what police think. They think "I don't like to be hurt, and this guy fits the profile of those that are most likely to do it."


Now before anyone starts calling ME racist, too, I'm not defending the officer. I'm not justifying his WAY over-reaction. It's off-the-charts out of bounds. I'm not condoning racism.

I AM defending pokeyfiero as far as what he was trying to relay to people of his first hand knowledge of the backdrop in which this all occurred.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Forget that. The officer I'm ridn' with might forget who he's with and shoot my black behind. Seriously, it's happening in Greece too. Cop shoots teen, cop resigns and all hell breaks loose.

Exactly. You wont even ride along for one day, because you fear for your life. Think how he feels, he has to ride that area every single day. Just about everyone he meets (cops almost always have to deal exclusively with the lowest scum of the district they work in) wants to kill him. When someone is resisting arrest and hides their hand under their body fidgiting all around cops will be ready to use lethal force, because in a drop of the hat it could become lethal for the officers if the perp has a gun or some other weapon hidden on their person where the individual was hiding his hand. Sure we know NOW that he was unarmed, but what do you think was going through that cop's head? You expect the worst. I still don't understand why he reached for his gun per say, but the individual being detained was being a complete moron to hide his hands under his body from police officers.

quote Originally posted by 86fierofun: Exactly. You wont even ride along for one day, because you fear for your life.

Not to get personal, but I was married to one. So yes, I "rode" an officer.

this IS east bay oakland people... where people will shoot you for having a 49er's sticker on your car... ide be a little skiddish too if i had to patrol the bart @ night IN OAKLAND... F*CK THAT

..

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 01-23-2010).]

Like I have said many times before. Cops are bad and deserve no respect. The cop had no way of knowing the guys criminal record at the time of the murder. He just didnt want to struggle with the guy anymore so he shot him. Either way he should be shot in the back with something small so he can suffer in pain and laying in his own blood before he dies. He didnt give his victim a trial or anything like that so he doesnt deserve one either.

Similarities; Between the Greece 15-yr old teenage shootings and the Bart 22-yr old shooting by police.

Greece; A teenage boy is shot dead by police in Exarchia, a district of central Athens long associated with lawlessness and drug abuse.

Bart police (USA);(01-01) 18:41 PST -- A young man allegedly involved in a fight aboard a BART train was shot to death by a BART police officer on the platform of the Fruitvale Station early New Year's Day, in the midst of a brawl between two groups of young train passengers (he too has a criminal record).

recap; both report yong men were either throwing rocks or fighting on the train. Okay....

Greece; A police statement later said one officer fired three shots after their car was attacked by 30 youths. A police official said the officer described firing warning shots.

Bart USA; On Thursday afternoon, BART officials held a news conference and confirmed the officer had drawn his weapon during the incident. In describing the incident, however, they chose their wording very carefully, repeatedly referring to the shooting as a weapon "discharge," without specifically saying that the officer shot Grant.

Recap; Getting the story straight and careful use of words (cover-up).

Greece; , but witnesses told TV he aimed at the boy, identified as Alexandros Andreas Grigoropoulos, the son of a bank manager and a student at a school in Athens.

Bart USA; Well, the video speaks for itself.

recap; In both cases, after eyewitness or video exposes the situation what happens next?

Greece; . Two police officers have been charged - one with murder and the other as an accomplice.

Bart USA; (01-10) 20:34 PST -- Attorney General Jerry Brown, said Saturday that he is sending an observer to the Alameda County district attorney's office to encourage prompt action. "The wheels of justice cannot grind so slowly that it appears that justice is not being served," Brown said at a news conference in his Oakland office after meeting with leaders of the NAACP, who called for criminal charges. While declining to criticize District Attorney Tom Orloff, Brown said he's not sure why Orloff needs two weeks to decide whether to prosecute the officer.


Recap: Greece policemen (both) charged. Bart USA; Lawyer-up, clam-up, and no charges are filed. Riots to follow.

Greece;Protesters chanting "cops, pigs, murderers" hurl petrol bombs at Athens riot police. Helicopters hover over the demonstrators and clouds of teargas erupt in the streets.

Bart USA: The man who organized Wednesday's BART police protest said he broke down in tears when he saw his peaceful march turn violent as some participants began throwing bottles, spitting on police cars and setting small fires.

Recap: Bart protest compared to Greece's is child's play. No Molovav cocktails were thrown at officers, but they did torch some trash cans/ few cars, and trash the neighborhood.

http://www.boston.com/bigpi..._riots.html?link=rss
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/08/greece
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7770086.stm

Greece has it's young poor minorites whom clash with officers. The major difference between Greece is... action. Action taken by officals while the wheels of justice move without little restriction.

In USA, justice is very slow, denial is tone where silence all too offen the mood of the day. Lawyer-up, get your union rep, resign, and skip town.

If you watch the video you see Grant with a cellphone, the two officers in front of him don't seem to have a problem with this. Then an officer comes in from the left pointing and yelling at Grant, he seems to have a problem. After words are evchanged the second officer joins in and takes Grant down. The first officer accually starts to get up just before the second officer fires!

My Father is a retired County Deputy Sheriff, I have military POW training. These people were held for over 20 minutes and were not searched, they were also not seperated. This is poor police work.

The officer who shot Grant was a two year veteran, he WAS NOT a rookie.

Why was Grant using his cell? He got a text from his Uncle saying "Happy New Year, I love you."

Grant was shot for using a cell phone. You could say executed. No one should be treated like that, record or not!

This Nation use to stand for:
All men are created equal.
The right to Life, Liberty, and the Persut of Happiness
That you are inocent UNTIL prooven guilty in a court of law

Nick

It "seems", that the only ones who still are innocent until proven guilty are those who wear the police uniform. For the rest of us, too many of the uniformed have become judge, jury, and executioner--with no real fear of recrimination for their actions. I don't think this is what our founding fathers had in mind.

Day 12th. Monday @1pm Bart Officials to make announcment involving the shooting and 12 freakin days later. Since the policeman who shot the suspect isn't talking let's see if the other officers (bald dude) will shead some light from his report. Will they come clean, will they duck behind the blue shield, or will they place the blame on the suspect since he did have a cell phone thus was the reason for the shooting. My guess they'll talk about over sight board and nothing regarding the case cause it under investigation.


http://cbs5.com/local/BART....cement.2.906222.html

BART To Make Major Announcement About Shooting


Officials with the Bay Area Rapid Transit district said they would make a major announcement Monday afternoon involving the deadly videotaped shooting of an unarmed man by a BART police officer.

BART spokesman Linton Johnson declined to provide details in advance of 1 p.m.'s "significant announcement" at BART headquarters at 300 Lakeside Drive in Oakland.

The announcement was scheduled just a half-hour before BART's board of directors was to meet in a special session to consider setting up a special oversight committee to monitor the transit agency's police department.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 01-12-2009).]

It is all a bunch of BULLSHIT Curly. Anymore Cops don't even consider us people. We are just criminals waiting to be handled.

The system is broken to the point that they don't know right from wrong only what is right for them and that is wrong.

Pretty obvious that it was an accidental shooting. The officer should be suspended for safety violations but the suspect gets squat. Rule one, when a man with a gun tells you to do something, DO IT or accept the consequences, intentional or otherwise. The inflamatory title of this thread does nothing to calm the situation. No corruption I can see and the man was nto handcuffed until AFTER the shooting as the story says.

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 01-12-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Pretty obvious that it was an accidental shooting. The officer should be suspended for safety violations but the suspect gets squat. Rule one, when a man with a gun tells you to do something, DO IT or accept the consequences, intentional or otherwise. The inflamatory title of this thread does nothing to calm the situation. No corruption I can see and the man was nto handcuffed until AFTER the shooting as the story says.

If laying face down-arms behind your back with a officer's knee on your back isn't good enough for law enforemcent then tell me... what else is left to do? Ask for the hand cuffs and let the suspect do it himself?

Something to hide? Why not fess-up? If the shooting was a mistake why the silence? Why take the 5th? Why resign?

Inflamatory title? Initially, no. The same holds true regarding weapons in the area.

Corruption? Standard protocall. Did they follow it? Is that protocall to shoot a person while the situation was under control? Or was it a chance to show the suspect who's the boss?

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Reverse the situation and ask yourself, Would the suspect have the same rights as the officer in questions? Would the suspect be charged already? Would the suspect be out of jail and no bail? Would the wearabouts of the suspect be unknown?

If the situation was reversed, the Police would be screaming for the death penalty for a "cop killer."
You'd see "COP KILLER" headlines and splash screens on the 6 o'clock news. They love using those big flashy graphics when reporting on justice.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: If the situation was reversed, the Police would be screaming for the death penalty for a "cop killer." You'd see "COP KILLER" headlines and splash screens on the 6 o'clock news. They love using those big flashy graphics when reporting on just us.

Off topic for example:

11 years ago I was walhing to work, for you N.KY people along US27 from E. Alexandria Pike to the old Thriftway by NKU, a 4 mile walk. Wife had the car at her work and I didn't want to take the bus.

A Cold Springs officer stopped me and asked me what I was doing. "I'm going to work." He said that my walking at night is suspisious so he took my ID and ran me for warrents, then he copied everything in a note pad and said that if there is/or was a break in any were he would come get me. He then alloud me to go on my way.

I was on my way to work, third shift stock.
I was on a sidewalk next to a heavely traveled road.
It was dark out, the sun had been down for about two hours.
The time was 7:30pm it was January. If it was August at the same time with the sun up would I have been stopped? I don't think so.
All this made me a suspect for any crime that was or will be commited in the area.

So many cops do there work by profiles instead of proper investigation and observation.

It was winter, there was snow on the ground, If I robbed someplace how was I to get away? Stay on the sidewalk and be spotted from the road? Run through the snow and be tracked?

Are there bad cops? YES
Do they need better training? YES
Should these officers be charged with murder? YES
Should the department be fined? YES
Should the elected officials who set the departments budget be held responsible? YES

I still have hope for this country, ours is the only place were we can change the governments course. All this can be fixed if the people of the comunity get involved at the ballot box.

Nick

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Pretty obvious that it was an accidental shooting. The officer should be suspended for safety violations but the suspect gets squat. Rule one, when a man with a gun tells you to do something, DO IT or accept the consequences, intentional or otherwise. The inflamatory title of this thread does nothing to calm the situation. No corruption I can see and the man was nto handcuffed until AFTER the shooting as the story says.

I think at first it was thought the man was in cuffs so theres the title.

I agree with you on the man with the gun part especially if it is a cop. If a crook has a gun on you he actually has a fear of commiting murder whereas a cop, well not so much. Crooks want something from you like your money or something valuable to sell. Cops want to exert their dominance and absolute authority over the civilians(criminals that have not been caught yet) as they call us.

The officer seems to have made an accident but I'm thinking anyone that makes that kind of accident even under stress and fear needs to be in some other line of work. Suspended or fined just doesn't serve.

What do you mean the suspect doesn't get Squat? He got dead!
Seems like enough for his horrible crime of having his face in the ground and a knee in his back. Maybe we can back charge the family for the costs involved or something.

I guess I will chime in on this.

Well, it looks like the cop made a mistake. Did something that he should not have done and is very worried about the reprecussions.

But really, to say all cops are corrupt or bad is just pure crazy. Many policemen are just the opposite. I've been helped more by police than ever harmed, and if you are doing what you are suppose to be doing you will never have a problem with the police.

God, if I was a policeman patrolling those areas I would be walking around with a gun in each hand.

quote Originally posted by RotrexFiero: I guess I will chime in on this. Well, it looks like the cop made a mistake. Did something that he should not have done and is very worried about the reprecussions. But really, to say all cops are corrupt or bad is just pure crazy. Many policemen are just the opposite. I've been helped more by police than ever harmed, and if you are doing what you are suppose to be doing you will never have a problem with the police. God, if I was a policeman patrolling those areas I would be walking around with a gun in each hand.

Of course all cops are not bad. But then when a cop lets another cop slide is he still good?

this is why officers should live in the areas they serve.

quote Originally posted by RotrexFiero: Well, it looks like the cop made a mistake. Did something that he should not have done and is very worried about the reprecussions. But really, to say all cops are corrupt or bad is just pure crazy. Many policemen are just the opposite.

100% Just to give you an example of "how" some officers handled the situation differently and under far worst conditions in San Jose just 45 miles or so south of Oakland, CA.


http://cbs5.com/local/sj.of...unched.2.906926.html

Suspects Jailed After Officer Punched At SJ Party
 
1. San Jose police arrested several suspects Saturday after a police officer responded to a party and was punched by an attendee.

2. Officers first responded around 9 p.m. to Midfield Avenue and Miami Drive on reports that a truck crashed into a parked car, police said.

3. When officers arrived at the home, they discovered a party was underway.

4. While investigating, one of the partygoers punched an officer and several other suspects joined in on the fight that followed.

5. Police located the driver and passenger of the truck that had crashed earlier in the night and discovered the truck was an unreported stolen vehicle.

6. Officers arrested the driver of the truck and three other suspects accused of battery on a police officer and resisting arrest.

Two officers received treatment at a nearby hospital for the minor injuries received during the fight, police said.


As you can see, this situation was handled properly and after a officer was punched. Nobody was tasered, shoot, or killed for fighting. Just thrown in jail and charged.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 01-13-2009).]

http://cbs5.com/local/BART....lawyer.2.907719.html

BART Officer Arrested As More Protests Loom
The former Bay Area Rapid Transit police officer who fatally shot an unarmed man on New Year's Day was arrested in Nevada Tuesday evening on a homicide charge, authorities told CBS 5.

Johannes Mehserle was arrested about 6:20 p.m. by sheriff's deputies at a residence in Lake Tahoe, Nevada. Douglas County Undersheriff  Paul Howell told CBS 5 that Mehserle was picked up on a California fugitive warrant signed by an Alameda County Superior Court judge.

The arrest warrant was for homicide, but Howell declined to provide more specifics about the charge.

He said the Oakland Police Dept. had notified Nevada authorities about the warrant and indicated that they believed Mehserle was in the Zephyr Cove area of Lake Tahoe.

After contacting Mehserle's attorney, Christopher Miller of Sacramento, Howell said the lawyer called Mehserle and he immediately and peacefully surrendered to deputies upon walking out of a home at 1007 Skyland Drive. Miller could not immediately be reached for comment.

The 27-year-old Mehserle was being held without bail on a precautionary suicide watch in a segregated area of Douglas County's main jail in Minden.

He had an arraignment hearing to begin extradition proceedings scheduled for Wednesday morning in a Douglas County courtroom.

BART police chief Gary Gee and David Chai, chief of staff to Oakland Mayor Ron Dellums, had also confirmed the arrest to CBS 5. But they, too, declined to discuss the specific charge against Mehserle.

The pair said Alameda County District Attorney Tom Orloff, who could not immediately be reached, would announce further details of the arrest Wednesday.

Witnesses said Mehserle shot 22-year-old Oscar Grant III in the back while he was lying facedown on a train platform at the Fruitvale BART station. Grant and others had been pulled off a train by BART officers after reports of fighting, as New Year's Eve revelers were shuttling home after midnight. 

The shooting was captured on amateur video — widely see on television and the Internet — and has led to violent protests, with Oakland bracing for another large demonstration on Wednesday evening.

Oakland attorney John Burris, who represents Grant's relatives in a $25 million wrongful death claim filed against the transit agency, said the family had mixed feelings after hearing of Mehserle's arrest.

"They're very happy that an arrest has taken place, but (Grant's mother Wanda Johnson) also recognizes that she has lost her son," said Burris.

Few legal analysts believed Mehserle would face first-degree murder charges because prosecutors would have to convince a jury that the officer had intended to kill Grant.

A second-degree murder charge carries a potential life sentence, but proving that Mehserle's actions were so outside the norm to warrant such a serious accusation could be difficult, experts said.

A less serious manslaughter charge either voluntary or involuntary was more likely, the analysts speculated.

Voluntary manslaughter carries up to nine years in prison and prosecutors need to convince a jury that the former transit officer's actions were "grossly dangerous or grossly negligent," said Golden Gate University law professor Peter Keane.

Involuntary manslaughter is a much less serious charge and could result in a sentence of probation. To convict Mehserle of that charge, legal experts said, a jury would have to conclude that he acted improperly but accidentally.

Former prosecutors, law school professors and other legal analysts said the case boils down to Mehserle's reason for pulling the trigger and his state of mind. Those are unknowns as Mehserle resigned from the BART police force and had refused to speak with investigators.

"I want to know why he did it," BART board member Carole Ward Allen said. "We've heard from everybody else but him. While I can't speak for the entire BART board, we want to make this process as transparent as possible."

Some have speculated that the officer may have intended to fire a stun gun but accidentally pulled his firearm instead.

Michael Rains, a former police officer who defends them now as a lawyer, said he expected Mehserle to raise a self-defense argument because he was responding to reports of a brawl and people had not been searched before he arrived at the train station.

Meantime, Oakland police were preparing for a large demonstration planned for Wednesday evening to protest Grant's shooting death. 

Police officials met Tuesday with protest organizers to discuss security plans for the event beginning at 4 p.m. on the steps of Oakland City Hall. Protesters also intended to march to the district attorney's office.

Organizers said late Tuesday that they would continue with the protest despite the arrest in the case.

Dereca Blackmon, the co-founder of the Coalition Against Police Execution, which was organizing Wednesday's protest, said she was pleased Mehserle was arrested but still wanted to know more details.

"We're disappointed that it took him fleeing the state in order for the law to take some action," she said. "Honestly this situation brings more questions than answers. Why was he fleeing?"

Several protests already have taken place, including one last week that turned violent. More than 120 people were arrested, and as many as 45 businesses were damaged in downtown Oakland.

Police said they expected about 1,000 people to turn out for Wednesday's protest.

Oakland City Councilmember Desley Brooks said she hoped the protest would be calmed by the news of Mehserle's arrest because "a lot of the anxiety was the fact that he wasn't arrested."

However, Brooks said the protesters still had a lot to voice their opinions about, including pressing for public oversight of the BART police department.

"The need of an oversight committee is paramount," Brooks said. "We need to make sure this doesn't happen again."

I have read most of this and have come to a conclusion that what Pokey is saying is completly true. I have my own story for you all to think about. After reading this seriously think about it and tell me if you would have reacted the same way as the cop did. When i was 17 I enlisted in the military as a split-op. What that means is that you go to basic training over the summer break between your Jr. and Sr. years and then finish your training when you graduate. And over your Sr. year you are a reservist. This was in Dec. of 2005. I was on my winter break from school and had drill the same weekend so i decided to visit a freind who lives a fee blocks from that very station. I was fully dressed in my BDU's and as I was walking down the street six black men (keep in mind I was still 17) approached me and demanded that I give them my phone ipod and wallet. I complied out of sheer fear that if i didn't they would kill me. And guess what after I gave them my possesions they procedded to beat the living crap out of me in broad daylight and calling me a punk a** white boy. And many other very offensive racial slurs. As well as spitting on me. Now keep in mind I was clearly dressed as military and these "thugs" as Pokey calls them still had the gall to jump me. If these "citizens" are readily willing to jump and rob someone who risks their life to protect this country, what do you think they will do to a police officer? And what bothers me most is the fact that after I gained my bearings none of the bystanders would even let me use a phone to call for help. They just walked away.

I do feel that that officer was in fear. They are every day. Yes, he may have made a mistake but from what I can see in the videos that suspect was resisting arrest and the BART officers clearly did not have him under control. It also does look as if he has his hand underneath his body in an action to me as somone trained to react to these situations would automatically assume was to draw some sort of weapon. Given the fact that in this situation these officers were not in control of the situation and only had one of many suspects in the process of being apprehended I would assume that the officer thought he had unholstered his taser when in fact it was his gun. The reason I assume this is because police officers don't shoot people reaching into their pockets with guns they shhot them with a taser to prevent a weapon from being pulled. Yes the family should get some compensation, but the officer shouldn't be tried as a murderer.

[This message has been edited by 85duke (edited 01-14-2009).]

quote Originally posted by 85duke: The reason I assume this is because police officers don't shoot people reaching into their pockets with guns they shhot them with a taser to prevent a weapon from being pulled. Yes the family should get some compensation, but the officer shouldn't be tried as a murderer.

IMO, this was truly a accident and officer IMO won't be charged with murder. Thus were left with only two conclusions; the officer's training and police procedures. Once the experts testify the differences between a taser verses a weapon the officer's actions will no doubt fall to gross negligence. If there isn't a hung jury- the outcome maybe one of the two... voluntary manslaughter or involuntary manslaughter.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: 1. Voluntary manslaughter carries up to nine years in prison and prosecutors need to convince a jury that the former transit officer's actions were "grossly dangerous or grossly negligent," said Golden Gate University law professor Peter Keane. 2. Involuntary manslaughter is a much less serious charge and could result in a sentence of probation. To convict Mehserle of that charge, legal experts said, a jury would have to conclude that he acted improperly but accidentally.

My guess.... #2.

Where do I start? Accidental or not there is one each dead young man because a cop discharged his weapon in a situation where the thing should have stayed in its holster. So putting it in perspective, I could care less if it was accidental. The cop took a life - the man was on his stomach with at least three other cops holding him. If he can not deal with high stress situations with unsavory characters without "mistaking his taser for a gun" then he should never carry a badge. I just read on CNN that he was indicted, and I say BRAVO. Let the courts decide what to do with him and how to handle it.

Should the family sue and get 25 million... if it were my child, I would ask for more. Money can not bring a life back but the punitive message sent to the police force would be clear. Train your folks to handle situations without discharging a weapon. Screen them to make sure you have the right folks on the force. Maybe they should have made him carry his bullet in is shirt pocket ala Barney Fife.

end rant

[This message has been edited by topcat (edited 01-14-2009).]

Anyone know what has happened in this saga?

More Fruitvale station drama. Such a wonderful place.
http://cbs5.com/local/BART....abbing.2.939589.html


BART Holdup Victim Grabs Knife, Kills Robber
Robbery Gone Bad Is One Of 2 BART Station Homicides Thursday Night
CBS 5 CrimeWatchOAKLAND (CBS 5 / AP / BCN) ―

A 23-year-old man being robbed by two younger men at a Bay Area Rapid Transit station parking lot in Oakland fatally stabbed one assailant in apparent self-defense, officials said Friday.

BART police were investigating the stabbing death stemming from the robbery gone bad at the Fruitvale station about 9:30 p.m. Thursday.

BART spokesman Linton Johnson said that after two 18-year-olds from Oakland approached the man and took some personal items, he grabbed a knife from one of them and used it to stab the other.

The injured robber and his accomplice fled to a nearby house, not too far from the Fruitvale station, Johnson said.

Christopher Gonzalez' father said his son ran inside and collapsed into his arms before dying. Police arrested the other alleged robber at the Gonzalez home, which they said contained the robbery victim's personal effects.

The second suspect, Victor Veliz, remained in custody Friday on charges of robbery and murder.

The robbery victim, whose name was not released, was helping detectives with the investigation, Johnson said.

The Fruitvale station was the site of the New Year's Day fatal shooting of an unarmed passenger, who was recently released from prison, by an ex-BART officer.

In addition, the Fruitvale stabbing was one of two separate homicides that occurred at BART stations on Thursday night.

In Daly City, one man was killed and two others injured in a shooting on John Daly Boulevard near that community's BART station.

Police said two young gunmen got out of a gray hatchback and opened fire on a gold Buick near the BART entrance about 7:10 p.m.

A 21-year-old man in the Buick died after being shot several times. Three other victims inside the car were also shot, though they were hospitalized in stable condition and were expected to survive.

The suspects were last seen driving northbound on Interstate 280 from John Daly Boulevard in a silver or gray newer hatchback, possibly a Honda.

Though investigators had no leads, they suspected the shooting may have involved a case of mistaken identity. Investigators said they hoped that anyone who was stuck in the commute traffic would contact BART police.

The shooting was the first homicide in Daly City this year.