Just noticed what time these are getting posted. What the hell are you guys doing on the forum at that time of the morning?

Sorry Aus.
Yes, I did slightly twist what you posted, but, I have noticed in this country, that this type thing is happening more and more, and one of the reasons it continues to happen, is that the local, county, state govenments are not held accountable for the actions of their employees. Best (only?) way to do that is to make it very very expensive for that government entity.

Is the deceased worth $25 million? I dunno how any of us can put a $ amt on any human being, but we've spent billions over the last 2 centuries in legal costs, trying to uphold our constitutional law. One of those laws says each of us is innocent until proven guilty by a court of law under due process, and for an unarmed man, that due process shouldn't come from the muzzle of a weapon held by someone having taken an oath to protect and serve.

quote Originally posted by AusFiero: Sheeze, talk about trying to twist what I posted. Yes it was an accident. No it shouldn't have happened. Would it have happened if the guy wasn't already resiting arrest? No, I doubt it. Blame to be had from all parties in this one. The point of it all is, he is not worth $25,000,000. That is just ludicrous. Let the law run its course on the officer and yes pay some sort of compensation. But not some ludicrous figure. Lawsuits like that one are a big part of what is destroying the USA. The family are realy quick to talk figures. They don't seem to give a rats ass about him if money is all that matters.

I agree, it was an accident and the guy that got shot did put himself in that situation but if the cop would have had better training it wouldn't have happened. Both parties carry some blame but the bulk of it rides on the cop. The lawsuit is just stupid, but thats how a lot of people think over here.

When I was in the Navy we trained with firearms, live ammo was used and there were some guys that I couldn't wait to get washed out. No amount of training would break the bad habits they had before training and they couldn't be trusted. Then there were the new guys that had never handled a gun before, they were so scared they would constantly **** up. Stand next to one of those guys or in between two of them for an afternoon and you will realize that everyone that carries a gun is human and can **** up at any moment. Those guys and this cop should not be trusted with our safety.

quote Originally posted by AusFiero: Sheeze, talk about trying to twist what I posted. Yes it was an accident. No it shouldn't have happened. Would it have happened if the guy wasn't already resiting arrest? No, I doubt it. Blame to be had from all parties in this one. The point of it all is, he is not worth $25,000,000. That is just ludicrous. Let the law run its course on the officer and yes pay some sort of compensation. But not some ludicrous figure. Lawsuits like that one are a big part of what is destroying the USA. The family are realy quick to talk figures. They don't seem to give a rats ass about him if money is all that matters.

When it comes to compensation, the 25 million involves more than monetary means; it involves pain and sufferening. Pain and suffering from the child’s point of view and family. Also, the large amount (25 mill) is a common practice among lawyers. No doubt the 25 mill will be reduced to 1 or 2 million at the end of the day. Oakland Bart Official is hoping the family will settle out of court with some type of gage stipulation attached.

On the other hand, if the compensation is too low (low-balled), then individuals in positions of authority will continue this type of blatant behavior (accident or otherwise). The situation becomes "sticky" if someone "killed" is a prominent figure in the community... then heads will roll from the top down. This is the main reason why incidents like this continue.

I know this may sound “silly” but some individuals should never be given a badge. The situation involving San Francisco's former Chief of Police whose son was involved in a beating of a guy eating a Fajita taco. That situation ended with the chief resigning and later the son (time limit) expired. The guy beaten (because he wouldn't give-up his taco) knew the right people. If forgot what type of job he held, but he wasn't working at Burger King. http://www.ktvu.com/news/3539701/detail.html The plaintiff were awarded $46,000.

Fajitagate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajitagate

quote Originally posted by madcurl: When it comes to compensation, the 25 million involves more than monetary means; it involves pain and sufferening. Pain and suffering from the child’s point of view and family. Also, the large amount (25 mill) is a common practice among lawyers. No doubt the 25 mill will be reduced to 1 or 2 million at the end of the day. Oakland Bart Official is hoping the family will settle out of court with some type of gage stipulation attached.

Good point. There is also a punitive measure to the judgement. If it's not enough to hurt, there's no real incentive for the department to take steps to prevent it from happening again.

This is a prime example of why many people don't trust cops. That cop made a mistake. We all make mistakes, but this mistake resulted in someone's death. "oops, my bad" just doesn't cover it.

WOW ! maybe the officer thought he had pulled his taser and shot then he heard a pop insted of zap i would make the same face. this video reminds me of this one any one remember this?

Couldn't agree more on the training Jake. These sort of things wont happen at all if proper training is given.

Madcurl, yep I see your point on asking the higher figure. As long as the judges don't screw the public and be fair about the amount his family does deserve compensation. As much for them as to make the police stand up and take notice and perhaps introduce better training.

quote Originally posted by 86SEin93003: WOW ! maybe the officer thought he had pulled his taser and shot then he heard a pop insted of zap i would make the same face. this video reminds me of this one any one remember this?

What the heck!

quote Originally posted by madcurl: What the heck!

Finger on the trigger, bullet in the head.

quote Originally posted by AusFiero: Sheeze, talk about trying to twist what I posted. Yes it was an accident. No it shouldn't have happened. Would it have happened if the guy wasn't already resiting arrest? No, I doubt it. Blame to be had from all parties in this one. The point of it all is, he is not worth $25,000,000. That is just ludicrous. Let the law run its course on the officer and yes pay some sort of compensation. But not some ludicrous figure. Lawsuits like that one are a big part of what is destroying the USA. The family are realy quick to talk figures. They don't seem to give a rats ass about him if money is all that matters.

Fieroboom mentioned tasers....great weapon for police. There was enough man power there to detain the guy and it was obvious that he was giving the officers some difficulty in cuffing him. There may be some officers here that may be able to shed some light with the training/experiences that they have recieved. It was also obvious that the officer that pulled the trigger had a "oh, @*!#" look on his face like it was an accident. So, no, I'm not justifing the shooting at all. In my opinion no firearm should have been drawn, especially with a finger on the trigger.

Paul

He's okay...

The guy didn't get shot in that last video

quote Originally posted by RideZiLightning: He's okay... The guy didn't get shot in that last video

I bet he had to change his underwear, pants, socks and shoes.

If I was the cop putting the cuffs on the suspect, I would be chewing the female officer out.

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: I bet he had to change his underwear, pants, socks and shoes.

So too the officer holding the suspect down from the bullet bouncing off the cement.


Apparently, in 2008 cops are accidently trying to shoot each other officers. Click on the video.

http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/36852169.html#
http://roavapd.blogspot.com...cidental%20discharge

Monday, August 4, 2008
It is my strong belief that there are two types of gun owners, those who have accidentally discharged their weapon and those who will. If you handle your weapon with that kind of humility hopefully you will be careful enough that when it happens nobody will be hurt. Of course, if you follow the cardinal rules of gun safety you won't have that problem. These rules are drilled into the heads of new cops who are training and for our entire careers. Getting a badge doesn't bestow police officers with magical firearms abilities. Hopefully though the training will help an officer survive their career without any tragic mishaps.

For non-gun owners the 4 cardinal rules are these:

#1. All guns are loaded.

#2. Never point a gun at anything you are not willing to destroy or kill.

#3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.

#4. Always be sure of your target and what is beyond.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 01-07-2009).]

quote Originally posted by RideZiLightning: He's okay... The guy didn't get shot in that last video

I'd smell a lawsuit if he did and he'd be intitled to it.

update,

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRI....shooting/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRI....shooting/index.html

Grant holds up his hands, appearing to plead with police. Burris said Tuesday that Grant was asking police not to use a Taser.
"He said to them, 'Don't Tase me; I have a 4-year-old daughter,' " Burris said. (The interaction on the video is not audible).
“Johnson told KTVU that authorities are trying to determine whether the officer who shot Grant accidentally drew his gun instead of his Taser. “

Either way, gross negligent on the part of the officer. Heck, the taser is marked “yellow strips” on part of the gun (nose and handle) and it doesn't appear to be on the same side of the holster were the real gun. From viewing the video I don’t see a taser on the right side.

the police here have the gun on the right side and taser on the left side. you can tell in the video the cop is a rookie

You can see the cop behind the bald cop fumble with his holster then pull his gun, draw and fire. And then looked like he really did NOT want to do that.

If he thought he grabbed the taser, then maybe this is a good example of why tasers should not be gun shaped?

quote Originally posted by 86SEin93003: the police here have the gun on the right side and taser on the left side. you can tell in the video the cop is a rookie

Correct;

http://cbs5.com/californiaw...rainStationShoot.xml

snip-it;

Burris said Wednesday that one of the latest videos of the shooting shows that Mehserle did have a Taser on his left side, but he went for a gun on his right side, instead.
''The video supports the position we are taking and eyewitnesses' testimony that the officer deliberately went for his gun and there's no mistake about it,'' Burris said. ''He didn't reach across for his Taser. He couldn't have been thinking about that. He went directly for his gun.''

Im surprised that jesse and al didnt pop wood over this yet.

quote Originally posted by slinger: Im surprised that jesse and al didnt pop wood over this yet.

No. That'll come after the officer is found "not guilty" and recieves a slap on the wrist of some sort. Let see if Law Enforcement throws him under the bus or protects him to the very end.

I take that Bart train often and I even think I have see n that bald guy before. He was at the Raiders game a couple weeks ago.
Raiders games have their own Bart station. There are several altercations out that way on any given day. I have veiwed many such altercations up close and let me tell you they all seem cruel and way blown out of proportion. There is a reason for that though. The people that these assholes have to deal with on a daily basis will take your life and then go on their merry way and then bragg about it to every one. These cops are scared,really scared and they give not an inch. I'm not surprised this happened I am surprised it doesn't happen more often.

Honestly I don't know who I hate more. The cops or the black thugs out there. To be fair there are a few mexican thugs around but they tend not to cause themselves to be noticed. Fact is Cops rightly fear these people more than anyone else and that is just always going to perpetuate the problem.

I find it rediculas that anyone out there protesting thinks the cops wanted to shoot that guy. Like he really wanted to ruin his life or thought it wouldn't be noticed especially on a station Platform where there is a camera every 30 feet and 4 cameras per car.

The black community will never overcome their stereo type because as a whole they don't want to overcome their ignorance and god forbid they stop blaming the rest of the world for all there problems. The truth is plain as day but it gets covered over and constantly buried by those that fear being called a racist.

Personally I prefer the title profiler but in fact I am a racist just like the rest of you out there blacks included. I don't like it but I admit it.
People really need to stop pretending to be shocked about this **** and start getting real with the real issues. Maybe the next few generations will have a better chance at this.

So... all the thugs are only black?!?

And let me guess.. "Dad-burned South will rise agin!!!"....

Right? I f*$@ing HATE racists. You should leave now.

As long as there are people like you, no generation will ever have a better shot.

[This message has been edited by fieroboom (edited 01-08-2009).]

quote Originally posted by fieroboom: So... all the thugs are only black?!?

Show me where it says or insinuates "ALL" . People that think like that also perpetuate the problems.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Show me where it says or insinuates "ALL" . People that think like that also perpetuate the problems.

Do I really need to?? You're a self-proclaimed racist....

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Personally I prefer the title profiler but in fact I am a racist just like the rest of you out there blacks included. I don't like it but I admit it. People really need to stop pretending to be shocked about this **** and start getting real with the real issues. Maybe the next few generations will have a better chance at this.

Rightful fear does not in any way condone what happened at that station. Even as an accident, it is still unacceptable.

Yes you really need to show me. Don't avoid it in your rightousness just show me and back up your claim.

Another example of your jumping the gun with accusations is

quote Originally posted by fieroboom: Rightful fear does not in any way condone what happened at that station. Even as an accident, it is still unacceptable.

Where did I say it is condoned or acceptable? Concentrate on understanding what you read not how you feel.
You are young and I don't hold any misunderstanding with how you feel or what you think. I just would like to help you understand what I am saying.

Concentrating on How You Feel 101:

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Honestly I don't know who I hate more. The cops or the black thugs out there. To be fair there are a few mexican thugs around but they tend not to cause themselves to be noticed. The black community will never overcome their stereo type because as a whole they don't want to overcome their ignorance and god forbid they stop blaming the rest of the world for all there problems. The truth is plain as day but it gets covered over and constantly buried by those that fear being called a racist. Personally I prefer the title profiler but in fact I am a racist just like the rest of you out there blacks included. I don't like it but I admit it. People really need to stop pretending to be shocked about this **** and start getting real with the real issues. Maybe the next few generations will have a better chance at this.

quote Originally posted by fieroboom: Concentrating on How You Feel 101:

Stop avoiding the question young man. Point it out or say you will not back up your claim.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: I take that Bart train often and I even think I have see n that bald guy before. He was at the Raiders game a couple weeks ago. Raiders games have their own Bart station. There are several altercations out that way on any given day. I have veiwed many such altercations up close and let me tell you they all seem cruel and way blown out of proportion. There is a reason for that though. The people that these assholes have to deal with on a daily basis will take your life and then go on their merry way and then bragg about it to every one. These cops are scared,really scared and they give not an inch. I'm not surprised this happened I am surprised it doesn't happen more often. Honestly I don't know who I hate more. The cops or the black thugs out there. To be fair there are a few mexican thugs around but they tend not to cause themselves to be noticed. Fact is Cops rightly fear these people more than anyone else and that is just always going to perpetuate the problem. I find it rediculas that anyone out there protesting thinks the cops wanted to shoot that guy. Like he really wanted to ruin his life or thought it wouldn't be noticed especially on a station Platform where there is a camera every 30 feet and 4 cameras per car. The black community will never overcome their stereo type because as a whole they don't want to overcome their ignorance and god forbid they stop blaming the rest of the world for all there problems. The truth is plain as day but it gets covered over and constantly buried by those that fear being called a racist. Personally I prefer the title profiler but in fact I am a racist just like the rest of you out there blacks included. I don't like it but I admit it. People really need to stop pretending to be shocked about this **** and start getting real with the real issues. Maybe the next few generations will have a better chance at this.

Fear? You make it sound like the officer(s) are pansy or something. Why take a job in the roughest areas of the city, especially if you’re scared of minorities? I'd hate see how the officer would've reacted if he'd encountered a suspect with a wallet in his hand while reaching towards the sky. 40-60 shots later you'll find 6-officers falsifying the incident.

As for the community, the Bart Station shooting isn't a black or white issue, but rather the conduct of the officer. A conduct that is all too familiar, a pattern that is common among all walks of life throughout America. You needn’t be white, black, or brown to experience it. Misconduct knows no boundaries.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 01-08-2009).]

Let's assume the cop thought he was reaching for his Tazer. That means the suspect was on the ground with another cop on top of him and he was going to Tazer him apparently to punish him or get him to stop struggling. The other cop was already on top of him and had him restrained from what you can see in the video.

It doesn't appear, from what I have read and seen, that Tazing was warranted. Add to that - at best - the cop grabbed his pistol instead of his tazer and didn't realize the difference until after he shot the suspect. At worst, he intended to shoot a subdued suspect.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Fear? You make it sound like the officer(s) are pansy or something. Why take a job in the roughest areas of the city, especially if you’re scared of minorities? I'd hate see how the officer would've reacted if he'd encountered a suspect with a wallet in his hand while reaching towards the sky. 40-60 shots later you'll find 6-officers falsifying the incident. As for the community, the Bart Station shooting isn't a black or white issue, but rather the conduct of the officer. A conduct that is all too familiar, a pattern that is common among all walks of life throughout America. You needn’t be white, black, or brown to experience it. Misconduct knows no boundaries.

I agree with you Curly.
I do make it sound like they are pansies. In a way considering they took a job in the roughest part of the Bay Area they are pansies. They are afraid and they deal with that by exerting extreme authority that is over the line. My point wasn't that it is just a black issue anyway. This time it was and a lot of the time it is but they are way overboard with the way they treat PEOPLE in general also.

We have seen mahy times what happens when they go for their wallet. They get shot and it gets covered up. The truth is also that it happens more to the Mexicans and the Blacks and that is because they Fear them the most. That is the way it is.

I know damn well you yourself have been treated horribly for no other reason than your shin pigmentaion. Say it isn't so. I have watched Cops Beat the **** out of my father on several occasions for the same damn reason. It isn't always a Black or brown thing but usaully it is and I would be willing to bet that cop wouldn't have been as jumpy if he wasn't preconditioned to the amount of crap he takes care of in the roughest part of the Area. Not excuseable or condoned but certainly understandable as in you can see what the problems are.

This is a race issue. It's already brought up by pokey and boom. It will be a race issue.

MadCurl, you need to do a ride along with the local police. You need to know what they go through. Do you know what it's like to have a job, where every moment of the day people want to kill you? Where they hate you, distrust you, want to do every thing to ruin you? And you're trying to help them? Not everyone is trying to do a massive cover up. I don't live in Cali so I don't know what things are like there, but you are taking a very blinded opinion on this. Seriously, you should do a ride along with your police department. Make sure you go into a high crime area too.

I can't believe the people who are making this out to be a cold blooded murder. The whole time in the altercation this individual is resisting arrest. Two officers cant cuff him (don't tell me that's more than enough too, as I've seen suspects get away from 4+ cops before being tazed), and right before he was shot he had his hand underneath his body (as far as I could tell from the two videos posted). That is a big fear for an officer who is in a hand to hand altercation.

That being said I really don't know why the officer went for his gun. In a hand to hand altercation, that is the last thing you want. He obviously did look surprised, so the only thing I can think of is maybe he's ambidextrous and recently switched sides where he carried is gun vs tazer?

He did screw up, but that was not cold blooded.