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Porsche 944 --- the poor man's Porsche by RotrexFiero
Started on: 10-20-2010 09:58 PM
Replies: 24
Last post by: ray b on 10-21-2010 10:38 PM
RotrexFiero
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10-20-2010 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RotrexFieroClick Here to visit RotrexFiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to RotrexFieroDirect Link to This Post

I was looking into picking up a Porsche as a project car, and the 944s are pretty inexpensive. I like the turbo models, but some of them need work. I dont know much about Porsches, but have heard the parts are expensive. What else should I know?

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RWDPLZ
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10-20-2010 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZDirect Link to This Post

The REAL poor man's Porsche is the 924, the Volkswagen Porsche Parts for both are expensive, but with the 924 at least a few are cheaper VW parts.

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MidEngineManiac
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10-20-2010 10:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by RotrexFiero:

.......... I dont know much about Porsches, but have heard the parts are expensive. What else should I know?


That parts are expensive..........

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Flamberge
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10-20-2010 10:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FlambergeSend a Private Message to FlambergeDirect Link to This Post

My friend had a 924 at the same time I had my 86 knotchie. I drove and rode in both cars. I give the edge to the Fiero in every single category (acceleration, handling, styling, ergonomics, etc.) But I *did* like the 924. It was pretty cool.

Which reminds me. I got a good look at a Porsche Panamera today, and I have to admit they are pretty cool! Caymans are my favorite though.

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MidEngineManiac
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10-20-2010 11:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Flamberge:

My friend had a 924 at the same time I had my 86 knotchie. I drove and rode in both cars. I give the edge to the Fiero in every single category (acceleration, handling, styling, ergonomics, etc.) But I *did* like the 924. It was pretty cool.

Which reminds me. I got a good look at a Porsche Panamera today, and I have to admit they are pretty cool! Caymans are my favorite though.


Funny you say that......years ago when I had my Lotus, I had an artical from road and track comparing the 924/928 VS the Elite, and tried a buddies Porshe a few times.....that was the same time I had my Indy Fiero and I thought the Fiero was twice the car of either of the Europeans...mind ya, I was comparing a 5-year-old car to 15-year-old, so some consideration needs to be given there.

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pontiackid86
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10-21-2010 12:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Click Here to Email pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Direct Link to This Post

I wouldent mess with them. This kid i used to hangout with a lot had one and he was always having issues with it.... I saw his moms car more than his.

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10-21-2010 12:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for InTheLeadSend a Private Message to InTheLeadDirect Link to This Post

I don't mind the looks but it's best to swap in a better motor/trans that doesn't suck.

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Flamberge
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10-21-2010 12:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FlambergeSend a Private Message to FlambergeDirect Link to This Post

Now if you could find an affordable 928..............

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Marvin McInnis
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10-21-2010 12:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by RotrexFiero:

I dont know much about Porsches, but have heard the parts are expensive. What else should I know?



As a former 911S and 928 owner (~275,000 total miles), I must tell you that parts can be hideously expensive if you have to buy them from a dealer. Fortunately, there are a number of specialist aftermarket suppliers. Be aware that the 944 engine is essentially one cylinder bank of the 928 engine. That said, if you do your own maintenance (except when special tools are required) most of the 911, 944, and 928 models can be extremely reliable and thus reasonably inexpensive to own. Avoid the 924 model (a 1970s Audi in Porsche clothing) like the plague, however, due to terrible reliabiltiy and maintenance issues. Whatever the model, buy a Factory Service Manual regardless of cost.

Bottom line: The 944 is a great car that can be a very good buy and reasonably affordable to operate if you can do your own maintenance. Join the Porsche Club of America; they are an invaluable resource for maintenance and technical information.


 
quote
Originally posted by Flamberge:

Now if you could find an affordable 928..............



If you're patient you can find sound 928s for less than $10,000. Cost of parts is the primary reason. When my 1980 model 928 was destroyed in a house/shop fire started by lightning, it was still in very good condition but had ~195,000 miles on the original engine and transmission. I felt lucky that my insurance company paid me $9500 for it. (N.B. A lot of a 928 melts into puddles of aluminum in a fire.)

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 10-21-2010).]

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uhlanstan
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10-21-2010 01:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for uhlanstanClick Here to Email uhlanstanSend a Private Message to uhlanstanDirect Link to This Post

,,The 944 is one of the best cars ever made,, I owned an 911 and a 944 and a 924s
The early 924 is an Audi,Typical audi/ VW unreliable crap,POS,,these cars gave Porsche a bad name, drug porsche into the Audi Toilet level
The 924S is a less expensive 924s has a dash like the fiero..but it is lighter looks a bit difference ,I prefer the 924s milder look
If you buy aTurbo buy one in top shape ,spent the bucks here.. they are fast for the day..cost many bucks more

944 are cheap for a Porsche,so buy a good one do not buy a fixer upper
there is a link./component under the dash ,ifthe car ever dies from a confusing ignition problem replace this !!
Most sportscars are crap.. the 944 was built to a standard ,,a far better car than the 911 of the day..
Buy some Excellence magazines ,get old issues with 944 repair articles,ifavailable
..Parts are expensive ,,you do not need many..these cars are well built ,,porsche had decided to make front engine cars the future wave,,but research showed americans preferred a rear engine porsche (snob/elite)
The cam drive belts are reliable but have to be replaced at 65,000 to75,000 miles not difficult to replace ,,aggravating..
..I love the 944, my favorite car,if they were made in America I would own one,,get an 88 or later ,, the 968 is a Porsche master piece the best 944 but owners do not sell these cars ..they are EXPENSIVE AND WORTH EVERY PENNY
AUTOATLANTA.COM would have almost any thing you need..PORSCHE 944 PEOPLE SEEM CUT FROM THE SAME CLOTH AS FIERO OWNERS ,,A lot of snoot dirt bags driving 911

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ray b
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10-21-2010 01:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bClick Here to Email ray bSend a Private Message to ray bDirect Link to This Post


this is a very good 944 forum also has a good used parts sub board

http://forums.pelicanparts....-968-technical-forum

major weakness is the cam drive belts replace every 30k miles or 3 years
if the belt breaks bent valves or a lot worse

other weak points are the head gasket and oil/water cooler leaks

DO NOT BUY AN AUTO 944 bad trans and weak rubber drive parts

early 924 is a whole different beast from the 944
late 924S 1987 is a 944 motor with narrow fenders

turbo and turboS aka 951 are the best 5 to 15k
then the 944S2 same motor as the restyled 968 by then the auto is better and 4 vs 3 speed, 4 to 10 k
944S is a desent version but needs to be rev'd 3 to 7k
post 851/2 is a late version better then the earlyer cars in some ways different wheel offset 3 to 7k
best normal 944 is the 89 only 2.7L 3 to 6k
early 944 1 to 5k
pre 87 924 500 to 2500 except the racer and turbos models

prices are for good to extra nice cars
but junk is cheap and rare cars are a lot more

parts are insane
and the cars are labor pigs 10-12 HOURS TO DO A CLUTCH

I would buy a nice one esp a 951 or S2
I WOULD NOT RESTORE OR FIX UP A PROBLEM PROJECT
VERY VERY EAZY CAR TO GET OVER THE CAR'S VALUE ON RESTORING

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Ramsespride
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10-21-2010 02:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RamsesprideSend a Private Message to RamsesprideDirect Link to This Post

Having owned a street legal race setup 924s i can say go for it!

Parts do get expensive but if you are careful you wont have to worrie too much and there are alot of do it yourself mods taht can be done.

the last time i drove mine was shortly after my 17th birthday where i miss judged a turn and slid over the curb and blew out the wheel bearing, front air dam, FMIC, and popped a brand new tire off the wheel.

also i found that i had a major headgasket leak and pulled the motoer, funds ran out... you know the story


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10-21-2010 03:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero_Fan_88Click Here to Email Fiero_Fan_88Send a Private Message to Fiero_Fan_88Direct Link to This Post



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RotrexFiero
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10-21-2010 08:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RotrexFieroClick Here to visit RotrexFiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to RotrexFieroDirect Link to This Post

When you say expensive, as far as parts, how much more expensive then Fiero parts?

Please check this one out:

http://pittsburgh.craigslis.../cto/2001483009.html

Tell me what you think. I know it's been modified but would it be a good investment?

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dsnover
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10-21-2010 09:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dsnoverSend a Private Message to dsnoverDirect Link to This Post

The 944 turbo was probably one of the fastest and best handling cars built in its day (obviously, technology has progressed). Lots of aftermarket stuff for them to give pretty dramatic power levels. I believe that Porsche intentionally limited some of the development of the car, as they seriously didn't want it stomping all over the 911 flagship. (IMHO, much like the Fiero vs Corvette)

As I've mentioned in past 'p-car' threads, I owned a 1980 924 Turbo 's' model. It was an excellent car - except for parts prices. For the US market, the 1980 turbo was a bit different, in that it used a 'genuine' Porsche transaxle, whereas the non-turbo and later non/turbo models used a more common Audi unit (and that would include the 944/turbo as well). While the gears themselves were extremely strong, the synchronizers were of a 'split ring' type, and were not exactly smooth in the 1-2 shift. Horrible expensive. As you can see from the below picture, it was considerably different than the non-turbo 924, in that it had 5 lug slotted 16 inch wheels, much larger brakes, koni's, etc, all from the factory. The brakes were the same as what would be on the 944 (then, they were borrowed from the 928, as were the wheel designs). The only thing non-stock in the picture is that I fitted the slightly larger 944 spoiler on the back, but otherwise, the car was stock.

I used to run an email list dedicated to the car, where all sorts of discussion on maintenance, etc, took place. We often got into 944 and 944 turbo discussions, because of the common lineage.

Anyway, IF you can find a WELL MAINTAINED example of a 924/924 turbo/944/944 turbo/968, they really are quite excellent cars, with the newer models being more desirable (again, like any Porsche, there are some 'special editions' in the early years that are desirable). However, DON'T BE DECEIVED: A low-priced Porsche is NOT A GOOD DEAL IF IT WAS NOT MAINTAINED PROPERLY. They will suck your wallet dry if they were abused by the previous owner.

Unfortunately, many people bought them with the thought that 'they are just an Audi with a Porsche label', and then quickly realized that parts still carry the 'Porsche' price.

My guess is that the 944 you are looking at as a 'project' will not have been maintained, and will end up costing more than a well-maintained example in the end. Not including your labor (because you don't want to pay a Porsche mechanic, or put the car into the hands of a shop that doesn't have Porsche experience).

Here's a picture of my turbo just before I sold her. She was known to my daughter as 'Silver'. FYI, I sold her to get back into Fiero's, which are much less expensive to buy parts for, and insure, and maintain, and....

yeah... I miss that car.....

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82-T/A [At Work]
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10-21-2010 10:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Direct Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by RotrexFiero:

I was looking into picking up a Porsche as a project car, and the 944s are pretty inexpensive. I like the turbo models, but some of them need work. I dont know much about Porsches, but have heard the parts are expensive. What else should I know?



The 944 is 100% Porsche, the 924 has an Audi engine.

The 944 Turbo is quite quick... high 13s in the quarter... and still gets 30+ mpg on the highway.

I had a 1984 Porsche 944. Here's my entire build thread:
http://www.pontiacperforman...car84Porsche944.html


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Todd,
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10-21-2010 12:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post

How about the VW based Puma? http://wj2d.100megsdns.com/home.html

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3.4L Supercharged 87 GT and Super Duty 4 Indy #163

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Marvin McInnis
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10-21-2010 12:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by RotrexFiero:

When you say expensive, as far as parts, how much more expensive then Fiero parts?



Count on 5X to 10X for Porsche branded parts! That won't be too far off. Aftermarket parts will "only" be 2X to 5X.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 10-21-2010).]

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10-21-2010 01:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crazydClick Here to visit crazyd's HomePageSend a Private Message to crazydDirect Link to This Post

Everybody forgot the 914. Now THAT is the poor-man's Porsche. However, I did once see a pair of them running around Summit Point racetrack with the Poncho 400 in them, about 10 years ago. They'd just been built and were having the kinks wrung out. Apparently there's an SBC kit for those too.

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ray b
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10-21-2010 02:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bClick Here to Email ray bSend a Private Message to ray bDirect Link to This Post

UN RUSTED 914 are currently worth more then a 944 esp the early 944
a 914 in good to great shape is a 5 to 15k value

and a 914/6 is a very collect-able car with values going up even in this market
with values near 35k

914 was the cheap porsche but it is now far more sought after then the 944

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Marvin McInnis
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10-21-2010 03:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by ray b:

UN RUSTED 914 ...



Isn't than an oxymoron? Does such a thing actually exist anymore outside of a museum?

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 10-21-2010).]

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10-21-2010 05:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

Ive advised more than a few 914 owners looking for paint work to junk it after showing them all the rust. Ive seen them actually rust in two. I consider 924 the Poor Man Porsche except the 'S'. I call the 944 a good entry level Porsche when they were new. Now if I was shopping for a Porsche, Id be looking for a used 911 myself. Lots more car for not much more money.

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10-21-2010 05:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DeV8erSend a Private Message to DeV8erDirect Link to This Post

I'm poor and I used to own a 914, loved that car. It had a 2.0L 4 cyl. and a 5 speed. It got between 30 to 35 mpg. It lacked strong acceleration, but handled very well.

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RotrexFiero
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10-21-2010 09:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RotrexFieroClick Here to visit RotrexFiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to RotrexFieroDirect Link to This Post

Hey Guys....please take a look at this one...it's been modified and is it worth the money. I will probably go look at it this weekend.

http://pittsburgh.craigslis.../cto/2001483009.html

[This message has been edited by RotrexFiero (edited 10-21-2010).]

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ray b
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10-21-2010 10:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bClick Here to Email ray bSend a Private Message to ray bDirect Link to This Post

KYB shocks are weak on a 944 SOFTER THEN SPORT RIDE SETTINGS

I donot know of the supercharger brand or eltrick set up he used 11 psi is reasonable
esp with the down compression to 8.0 on the rebuild

looks like he has a intercooler thats good make unknown

dash and seat sound normal for a 944

phone dial wheels are a minus as are 15'' size

no brake up grades listed

price is descent if the work is well done

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