I can honestly say that im pissed off at the town i used to live in. Back in 1990
the city of south fulton, tn passed a law stating that if you don't pay your $75
city fire protection fee than the fire department will not respond to your calls
if your house, land ect. is on fire.

So a mans house burned to the ground because he didn't pay the $75 And
he bagged and begged for them to but the fire out but the fire department
wouldnt do anything.

Heres a video of the whole story:
http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/n...round-104052668.html

-Reagan

I don't see him losing a lawsuit. Reminds me of the old 'Fire Marks' people would have on their houses a few hundred years ago, to prove they had paid the Fire Dept. No mark, no help.

Having to pay a fee almost makes the fire department like a private enterprise. If they're overseen by the local government and receive any funding from taxes at all I don't know how they could possibly legitimately refuse to put the fire out, especially if this home owner is a tax payer. Fee or not, by virtue of him paying taxes, and them receiving funding from those tax payments, he has in effect contributed to their existence and should be entitled to their services. If they ONLY get their funding from the 75 bucks per year fee, than it could be considered the same as any privately owned and operated business. Our local trash company isn't obligated to pick up trash if we haven't paid the bill. I would like to know how they are funded.

I've seen this before in various places I've lived--including this one. They call it a fee, but sounds and works like a tax. I haven't seen the vid, but $75/yr to a vol fire dept is not at all unreasonable--if it's a VFD. I would think tho, that they would make exceptions to those in poverty if that's the case, and hopefully no lives were lost, but I know for a facr, that the City of Cleveland fire dept will not come 9 miles out to my place to fight a fire, because I am out of their jurisdiction. I have to call the much smaller and less equipped Bear Creek VFD about the same distance away, but that's life. Even if it's not a vfd, cities are in dire financial strains and have to make up shortfalls--sometimes even in basic services--anyway they can. I don't particularly agree with it or like it, but I understand it, IF this is the way it works there.

quote Originally posted by wpsdlocal6.com: "Turns out, the neighbor had paid the fee." http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/n...round-104052668.html

Hmm. Which neighbor paid? The owner of the home that was on fire or the neighbor whose yard was on fire?

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 09-30-2010).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Hmm. Which neighbor paid? The owner of the home that was on fire or the neighbor whose yard was on fire?

Heres how that happened....


The guys who's house was on fire, he called 911 and since he hadn't paid, the fire department wouldn't
even come to his house. But as the fire got bigger, it spread into his neighbors yard, and since
his neighbor had paid the $75, the fire department then came and put out the fire (only in his
neighbors yard) and once they did that, the fire department just up and left and let the house burn
to the ground.

And it funny though, because this has pissed soooo many people off, that one of them went to the
fire department building and assaulted one of the fire men.

And as a personal opnion, paid or not paid, if i were a firefighter i would have still tried to put out the
fire. Just like at "most" hospitals, they care for you in an emergency rather you have insurance or
not.

What has the world came to....

I have a vision:

Many Firemen get fired!

They could have at the very least made him pay some kind of extra fee, say double, to come put it out. And if there HAD potentially been people in there, they would have been in DEEP **** .

quote Originally posted by Fiero Reagan: if you don't pay your $75 city fire protection fee than the fire department will not respond to your calls if your house, land ect. is on fire. -Reagan

...isn't this kind of the same mentallity that the mob has, but they just call it protection money and break your arms if you don't pay...

quote Originally posted by Fiero Reagan: And as a personal opnion, paid or not paid, if i were a firefighter i would have still tried to put out the fire. Just like at "most" hospitals, they care for you in an emergency rather you have insurance or not. What has the world came to....

I didn't know how I felt about this until you made the comparison.
This is what is causing "most" hospitals in poorer areas to shut down.

If the FD gets its budget from the fee they have every right to deny service.

I would say this is a poor way to fund a FD though.

Wait...
It was his yard that was on fire at first.. As I am understanding it. He called 911 and the FD refused cause he did not pay the fee.
He then offed to pay them WHATEVER!!! Just come put the fire out before it reached his HOUSE!! They refused.

Hours of battling the fire with a garden house did no good. It eventually reached his house... Then the neighbors yard. They put out the neighbors yard and went back to the HQ!!!!

Those firemen need to be horse whipped!!

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: I would say this is a poor way to fund a FD though.

This makes you wonder just how the $75 was initiated. Was it voter approval, was it a direct result in the Fire Dept. unions receiving their pensions and/or salaries? The bigger question is: Why now? They never had a fee before so why now? What if there's a eldery person in the home who didn't pay. Will the Fire Dept. let her burn to death?

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 09-30-2010).]

This is a tough situation. That county got what the voters there voted for. If they don't like it, then vote in new people.

In this particular case, I can see why the fire deparment did not respond. No, you can't accept the fee after the fact. Then what would be the point of having the fee? It costs a whole lot more than $75 to have the fire department come and put out your fire. That $75 a year is effectively fire insurance. You can't buy car insurance after you wreck your car and expect them to pay $5000 to repair your car after you just paid $250 for the first insurance payment.

If the people in that area want to make it manditory that everyone pay the $75 a year, then they can do that. I'm sure there will be plenty of people who belly ache about the $75. Then the fire dept will respond to every fire. But if it is optional and you choose not to pay, then you knowly accept the fact that your house can burn to the ground and the FD won't help.

While this story is sad and angers a lot of people, it was brought on by the people and the home owners themselves.

Note: this is not the first time this has happened and this is not a new policy. It has been in effect since 1990 and it was debated in open town forums in 1998.

It kind of reminds me of one of the world's first fire deparments:

http://www.trivia-library.c...-licinus-crassus.htm

quote Marcus Licinus Crassus, born into a wealthy Roman family around the year 115 B.C., acquired enormous wealth through (in the words of Plutarch) "fire and rapine." One of his most lucrative schemes took advantage of the fact that Rome had no fire department. Crassus filled this void by creating his own brigade--500 men strong--which rushed to burning buildings at the first cry of alarm. Upon arriving at the scene, however, the fire fighters did nothing while their employer bargained over the price of their services with the distressed property owner. If Crassus could not negotiate a satisfactory price, his men simply let the structure burn to the ground.

quote Originally posted by 8Ball: Wait... It was his yard that was on fire at first.. As I am understanding it. He called 911 and the FD refused cause he did not pay the fee. He then offed to pay them WHATEVER!!! Just come put the fire out before it reached his HOUSE!! They refused. Hours of battling the fire with a garden house did no good. It eventually reached his house... Then the neighbors yard. They put out the neighbors yard and went back to the HQ!!!! Those firemen need to be horse whipped!!

Im not quite sure, but it went from the burn barrels, to the shed and then to the house. All meanwhile, he was
calling 911 and the fire department wouldnt come and him and other were trying to put the wire out with garden hoses.
then eventually the fire spread to the the neighbors yard (who had paid his fee's) and i guess once the fire
department found out it spread next door, they finally came. and after they put out the (Neighbors) fire, they
headed back to HQ.

It was a neighboring county fire dept. not the same county as the house was in. now the county he lived in may not have even had a fire department, volunteer or otherwise.

Now was what happened right, I don’t think so. It caused an adjacent home owners property to catch on fire. In that case they should have put the fire out just to keep the adjacent home owner out of danger.

When I was in TN, Wheel, TN. They had pot luck dinners at the local volunteer fire house. You brought a pot luck something and then paid to eat. It was their way of buying new equipment for the firefighters.

But times they are a changing.

And I agree with Don, there should be exemptions for destitute people who are without jobs or handicapped.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: It was a neighboring county fire dept. not the same county as the house was in.

Not true... no offense.

But South Fulton is in Obion County, But yes, the house was within the county and
south fulton has its own fire department.

Link: http://www.cityofsouthfulton.org/fire.htm
http://www.fulton-ky.com/fire.html
And even worse.....this is a twin city. Meaning:

South Fulton is in Tennessee and
Fulton is in Kentucky (the state line runs right through the town)
and looks like the fulton fire department could have responded even though its a
different state. With that said, they probably can considering if im driving on the KY
part of town(Fulton), i can get pulled over by a TN cop from the TN part of town (south fulton)
even though its not in their jurist diction.

[This message has been edited by Fiero Reagan (edited 09-30-2010).]

ohh that guys gonna have that city by its balls...

Guess he should have paid for it; poor cheap fellow.

It's like when you get a rental car and they offer the extra insurance. You can't total the car and then decide you want the additional insurance.

It's like when you are offered insurance at blackjack. You can't wait to see what the dealer has before you decide to pay or not.

It's like when your employee offers life insurance. Your wife can't wait until you die and THEN decide you want life insurance.

I feel bad for him, but damn.. he didn't pay for the service.

We have to pay a $75 a year for fire protection, but they will respond even if we don't pay. They will just charge us A LOT of money for their services. Our homeowner's insurance will not pay those fees if we have the option to pay up annually and refuse.

We pay the fee.

------------------
1986 SE 350 V8

Check out the Facebook group 1 Million Strong Against our SOCIALIST Fire Departments.

They claim that if you let homes burn the free market will work!

23,142 members and growing...

quote Originally posted by Fiero Reagan: Not true... no offense. But South Fulton is in Obion County, But yes, the house was within the county and south fulton has its own fire department. Link: http://www.cityofsouthfulton.org/fire.htm http://www.fulton-ky.com/fire.html And even worse.....this is a twin city. Meaning: South Fulton is in Tennessee and Fulton is in Kentucky (the state line runs right through the town) and looks like the fulton fire department could have responded even though its a different state. With that said, they probably can considering if im driving on the KY part of town(Fulton), i can get pulled over by a TN cop from the TN part of town (south fulton) even though its not in their jurist diction.

Is that what we are talking about?

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

so - now add trapped children to the story

how about renters? who pays the $75? the renter or the building owner?

and - can you get homeowners insurance in these areas, if you dont pay the FD for protection?
will the FD intentionaly burn you out if you dont pay up? obviously none will EVER admit to it.

maybe some industrious folk will setup a competeing fire dept, and work for $65 per household.
and then the 2 can compete. that certainly will be better, wont it.....
and, when they are running low on funds - go burning houses, to scare up some new business....

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Is that what we are talking about? Steve

Nope, Close though......


Memphis is at the very bottom of SW TN and South Fulton is at the very NW part of the
state.

South Fulton = Tennessee
Fulton = Kentucky.

[This message has been edited by Fiero Reagan (edited 09-30-2010).]

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/...francisco&id=7698048


Motorists to face fee for car accident cleanups in SF

SAN FRANCISCO (KGO) -- You may soon be required to pay to help cleanup if you're to blame for a traffic accident in San Francisco.


The San Francisco Examiner reports the fire department estimates it will start collecting fees in two weeks. It was approved by the board of supervisors in July.

Motorists who cause an accident face a fee of up to $500, which is expected to be charged to the driver's insurance company.

It is expected to raise up to $600,000 a year to help the fire department close a $13 million budget gap.

quote Originally posted by HI-TECH: ohh that guys gonna have that city by its balls...

I know attorneys who would take this case pro bono if they were licensed in either state, just for the exposure alone. I can't see the city not settling this one out of court at their earliest convenience.

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: They could have at the very least made him pay some kind of extra fee, say double, to come put it out. And if there HAD potentially been people in there, they would have been in DEEP **** .

Why pay it ever before the services is needed? I hate that their house burned but personal accountability is something this nation lacks.

Funny-here in CA you can be arrested if the Fire Department is called out and you prevent them from doing their job. Granted, if you do have a fire make sure you don't have any "funny" plants growing in the back, hehe.

http://www.bakersfield.com/...-incidents-Wednesday
Bakersfield police went to the 2800 block of Ora Court at 7:16 a.m. to help Bakersfield firefighters with a resident who refused to let them enter certain rooms as they searched for fire hazards and victims of smoke inhalation, according to a police department news release. Officers arrested the resident, Cesar Carrillo, 27, on suspicion of interfering with firefighters.

The reason for Carrillo's refusal soon became clear, police said. Firefighters found several marijuana plants, and officers seized a total of 109 plants, the news release said. The fire started because of an electrical wiring system in place to help grow the pot plants, the news release said.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: This makes you wonder just how the $75 was initiated. Was it voter approval, was it a direct result in the Fire Dept. unions receiving their pensions and/or salaries? The bigger question is: Why now? They never had a fee before so why now? What if there's a eldery person in the home who didn't pay. Will the Fire Dept. let her burn to death?

I doubt that there's a union involved as Tennessee isn't very union friendly. Also, Tennessee doesn't have a state income tax. As such, I know for sure their schools operate on a shoe-string budget. So, I doubt there's any state money to be had for fire protection. I suspect the $75.00 is the fire department's operating revenue. I also suspect they'll have quite a few people who are now willing to pay their "share" after this incident. I also suspect the fee wouldn't be so high if they could count on everybody paying their shares of what it takes to pay for fire protection. I'm not saying what they did is right, but I also suspect if they put out fires for free, virtually nobody would bother to pay the fee. My fee is paid with my taxes; I too wonder what's up with this fee??

quote Originally posted by tesmith66: We have to pay a $75 a year for fire protection, but they will respond even if we don't pay. They will just charge us A LOT of money for their services. Our homeowner's insurance will not pay those fees if we have the option to pay up annually and refuse. We pay the fee.

I would only imagine that is the loophole... No city person is going to set it up for the option of not paying the tax is "your house burns to the ground, and we laugh",

We had something similar in Cenral Elgin several years ago...nothing as critical as fire service, but rather waste/ recycling pickup.

The recycling got contracted out to a private contractor (used to be done by the county) but taxes didnt decrease, and the contractor was paid by the county to pick stuff up....(these guys were in the business of of collecting, then re-selling recyclable goods). Very shortly after that we got letters in the mailbok ordering us how we were going to sort/ seperate the materials....which just pizzed me off so I left it by the ditch and they can sort it themselves....and they refused to take it, but rather left increasingly nasty letters with instructions on what I will sort......so I sent them a letter teling them my rate for sorting materials for thier company to thier standards was 1k per week. They could pay or sort it themselves...which got some REAL interesting letters and calls when I refused to comply, or back down....

Shortly after I said "eff ya, you get nothing (remember, they are a private company wanting raw materials for free to sell and I've already paid for the pickup via taxes) and anything that would burn went into the fire pit, and what wouldnt got hauled to work to the dumpster...so after about 6 weeks, couple months of nothing out front I got some letters threating they would sue and that I could be criminaly charged for not giving them my waste .....so I kinda replied in kind (eff ya !! ) ........I moved shortly after that point, so it never did reach a full conclusion....but the point is, once municipal service agencnies privatize and start direct billing it is a WORLD of headaches...its easy so long it is purely municipal--taxes pay it. Once private 3rd parties get involved, it is a WHOLE can of worms.

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 09-30-2010).]

I thought the government was the all feeling, all compassionate friend of the people. This reminds me of the characterization that the health care industry gets these days. Supposedly letting people die because they dont have insurance, and a fire department lets a house burn cuz they didnt pay the fee.

The guy's house burned down because he couldn't be arsed to pay $6.25 a month?

No sympathy here.

Ed