Rather then bump my old CX4 thread back up for this ( https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/054333.html ) I figured I'd go ahead and start a new one for this:

I really want a PX4 .40 but I just can't justify the >$500 cost right now, I'll be lucky if I can spare the ~$350! I was sticking to the PX4 so I could share mags with my CX4 but If I'm going to lose the mag-sharing capacity anyway then I'd rather go for a compact.

That said I'm considering getting a Taurus PT140 Millennium Pro from Bud's. I don't mind Taurus', in fact I had a PT22 and loved and miss that little gun. I like DAO so no worries there either. And for mid $300s it seems like a great deal but I'm interested any opinions.

edit: even though I cannot share mags with my CX4, I am wanting to stick to .40 S&W so I can at least share ammo.



------------------

Read my Earthship thread in Totally O/T
si vis pacem, para bellum
What part of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" is so hard to understand?!

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 01-13-2009).]

here is a summary worth looking at that I found.

I finally got to shoot my Taurus Millenium Pro tonight after work and I am impressed. In fact, this gun may help me change my opinion on two gun catagories that I wasn't too crazy about- the .40S&W and polymer guns.

After work I stopped off at Walmart and picked up 50 rounds of WWB 180gr FMJ and 100 rounds of WWB 180gr JHP. I then went to the gunstore, picked up the gun and took it to the firingline.

I didn't even do a full cleaning like you should before shooting. I removed the slide and barrel as one unit and wiped down some of the excess packing oil and put gun oil on the rails. I figured it may be more likely to fail, but it would be a better test. I did swab out the barrel to be sure there would be no overpressure issues.

Well, here are my observations-

-As others have commented on the Millenium Pro series, this thing is accurate. It took a few mags to get a feel for the gun (plus I haven't been shooting much the past year or two), but once I did, it shot to POI quite well. I only shot to 25' since this is a small self defense pistol (and I haven't been shooting for a couple months) and after a couple mags I got 10shot groups in the 2-3" range (good for me with so little recent practice). Its accuracy at the 25' range is very close to my 1911 and CZ75B (my most accurate autos) and certainly much more accurate than my Taurus 85 and possibly even more accurate than my Bersa Thunder (the other guns I have in this size and weight range).

-The trigger was much better than I expected out of a DAO handgun, especially with the rep the old Millenium series triggers have (even though I knew the Pro has a much better trigger in dry fire). It is a bit long and a bit heavy, but not bad on either front. Being a DA revolver shooter this DAO trigger was nothing out of the ordinary. It is smooth with a very consistent pull.

-It was very comfortable to shoot. Certainly it was easier to shoot than my Bersa Thunder .380 or Taurus 85 snub. I shot it two handed, one handed with my strong hand (right handed) and one handed with my left hand. It was comfortable, controllable, and made for easy follow up shots each way I tried.

-Out of the 150 rounds, including 100 rounds of JHP, I had not one break-in issue. Not much yet, but nonetheless it is 100% reliable to date. No stovepipes, fail to feeds, fail to eject, fail to extract, etc. Not one problem.

-I haven't put them side to side yet, but just handling and looking at it I think it is about the size of my Bersa Thunder. Around the same size but 10 rounds of .40S&W v 8 rounds (or was it 7) of .380. Later tonight I'll have to put it side to side for comparison with my Bersa and my Taurus 85 (I may even take my calipers to it).

What don't I like?
Nothing that isn't simply a matter of getting used to it, or break-in.

-Taurus mags have a reputation of being really stiff when new. Most of the time I could only load 9 rounds and I only managed 10 in 3 or 4 of the mags. Based on other people's experiences, leaving it loaded overnight should do it. Only problem is I had so much fun shooting it, I shot up all my .40S&W ammo (I meant to save at least a couple mags worth of the JHP).

-Take down and reassembly is quite different than with my CZ75B or 1911 and will take some getting used to. Still, taking it down twice while shooting (just to practice) I'm already getting used to it.

Conclusion
Overall I'd say it fit my hand very well. It was comfortable to shoot and just to hold. I can hold this with all my fingers, though sometimes I experimented with my pinky below the mag (it wasn't necessary, but it was a little less crowded that way)- both worked comfortably. The .40S&W had a little "snap" to it in this gun, but it was comfortable. This gun has cured any concerns I had over the accuracy of .40S&W. As for the polymer, when I had the slide off I could definately see how little the frame weighs, it really does cut the weight. The safety was easy to disengage and my thumb came to it directly, but the DAO trigger is long and heavy enough that I don't know if I'd bother using it. At the price ($325 in Maryland!) this gun is an incredible bargain. I may just have to pick up another in 9mm and .45ACP, maybe the newer compact version (right now only available in .45ACP).

I am glad I got this in .40S&W. I think this is the perfect caliber for this gun. The 9mm does hold two more rounds, but .40S&W gives a bit more flexibility in deciding the load (9mm has some great defensive ammo available, but .45 and .40 don't have to be selected quite as carefully- I may use this "advantage" by going with the cheaper WWB JHPs for defense) and this gun's size is just right to handle the .40S&W (smaller and I'd go 9mm). .45ACP doesn't have the greatest rep out of a smaller barrel, it loses some as it was designed for a larger barrel, and I think .40S&W doesn't have this issue so much. I think the caliber and platform couldn't be better matched.

Excellent review! Thanks! I'm planning on buying as soon as I get my tax return (I'm an early filer - I file ASAP once I get my W2s - so I expect to get my return soon, hopefully within a month) so I'll keep it on the list.

Someone on the Beretta forum suggest a S&W 4053. I like waht he had to say, so I think I'll check it out as well.

quote Have you thought about a used gun? Are you looking for a CCW gun? If so have you though about the S&W 4053? You can pick them up on police trade-in's for around $250-$300 range and they are usually in good condition for that price. It is a small, DAO, single stack .40. It makes a great carry gun. I have never been a big fan of the S&W autos until I took a job with a dept that issued them. I was issued the Smith & Wesson 4006 and bought the 4053 as a back up though the dept at a discount. I was really impressed with the little gun. It is slim, the weight is not that bad, always went bang and was a natural pointer for me. I would browse my local shop and see if they have any police trade-ins. You can snag a lot of nice pistols for not a lot of cash. If you are worried about the looks, keep in mind, if you plan on carrying it, it is going to get scratched, holster wear is going to happen and in less then a year it will start to look beat up. Most police trade-ins look like this, but if you take a look at the internals, most are in a like new condition. The big misconception people seem to have is that police guns get shot a lot. Really is, it is quite the opposite. I know guys that shoot their guns once a year and that qualification course is 30 rounds total. So if you shop around you can get a whole lot of gun for cheap, cheap.

So I've changed direction, but only slightly. I'm now looking towards a Taurus 24/7 Pro Compact. The seem to be in the <$400 range, when you can find them.



I posted a rant about my adventure trying to find one today here:

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/062431.html

As stated there the Milpro is the cheaper option by at least $75 from what I've seen, but I was disappointed to learn that for some reason, only the .45 version of the Milpro has a rail. (no idea why) I'm trying to stick with a compact, but the rail appeals to me because I'd like to add a mini-laser to aid in point-shoot use. (I figure, seeing CCW use, its not likely I'd get much of a chance to take carefully aimed shots so anything I can do to aid in quick target acquisition should help)

If I can get one, I'm looking to add a mini-laser, something like this:

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 01-23-2009).]

My dad just got the .40 24/7 compact for his CCW. its a nice gun, takes a little to get used to the odd full DA trigger but once you do its great !

I bought that for CC but never do. keep it near the bed. it doesn't have much kick for a 45

[This message has been edited by 84fierotrevor (edited 01-23-2009).]

quote Originally posted by 84fierotrevor: I bought that for CC but never do. keep it near the bed. it doesn't have much kick for a 45

Sweet!

http://gunbroker.com/Auctio...m.asp?Item=121381847

Be quick, 12 mins left

http://gunbroker.com/Auctio...m.asp?Item=121449644

Little more time on that one, Just find a gun store that will let you have it shipped to them, usually $20 or so, at least here in Colorado

[This message has been edited by Mike Gonzalez (edited 01-23-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez: http://gunbroker.com/Auctio...m.asp?Item=121381847 Be quick, 12 mins left

Naw, that's a .45, one thing I will definitely not compromise on is caliber, it must be a .40

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 01-23-2009).]

Oops thought it was .40, the other I added is.

Think I may have found a compromise. A member over at Taurus Armed found a trigger-guard mounted mini-laser that fits so well it almost looks like it was designed with the MilPro in mind. Check it out:



Still waiting on a reply back from him about make, model and pricing info...

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 01-24-2009).]

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: Think I may have found a compromise. A member over at Taurus Armed found a trigger-guard mounted mini-laser that fits so well it almost looks like it was designed with the MilPro in mind. Check it out: Still waiting on a reply back from him about make, model and pricing info...

That is the gun I have. The MilPro 9mm Stainless. One hell of a deal on it. I think you noted it on your other thread.

$320 is usually the price for the Stainless. Blue is about $300. I got mine for brand new in the box for $220 at a gun show.

I think the .40 usually go for $350 - $370 range on the MilPro.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: That is the gun I have. The MilPro 9mm Stainless. One hell of a deal on it. I think you noted it on your other thread. $320 is usually the price for the Stainless. Blue is about $300. I got mine for brand new in the box for $220 at a gun show. I think the .40 usually go for $350 - $370 range on the MilPro.

The Academy Sports in Tulsa has blued .40 MilPros for $320. Bud's gun shop (online) has a Stainless .40 Milpro for $320, but if I buy online I'd have to give another ~$25 to a FFL for the transfer...

I'm still debating sticking with the A MilPro Compact and losing the rail vs. Getting a 4" barreled 24/7 .40 with a rail and losing the Compact. I won't be buying until I get my tax return, so I've got a few weeks yet. I suppose I'll debate it right up until I buy...

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 01-24-2009).]

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: The Academy Sports in Tulsa has blued .40 MilPros for $320. Bud's gun shop (online) has a Stainless .40 Milpro for $320, but if I buy online I'd have to give another ~$25 to a FFL for the transfer... I'm still debating sticking with the A MilPro Compact and losing the rail vs. Getting a 4" barreled 24/7 .40 with a rail and losing the Compact. I won't be buying until I get my tax return, so I've got a few weeks yet. I suppose I'll debate it right up until I buy...

If you could wait a little longer, you should wait until they have that HUGE gun show that Tulsa is known for. It's in April.

http://www.tulsaarmsshow.com

That way you can ask the dealers all the questions, check all the models out, side by side and possibly get a good deal.

Yeah, I was thinking that the .40 in Stainless would be around $350 range. $320 in blue sounds right.

Are you a blue guy? For me, Stainless is always the best way to go.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: If you could wait a little longer, you should wait until they have that HUGE gun show that Tulsa is known for. It's in April. http://www.tulsaarmsshow.com

Not to add to the "fear mongering" (I've been accused of that lately ) But I'm not sure we have that much time before a new AWB is enacted.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Are you a blue guy? For me, Stainless is always the best way to go.

I could go either way. I definitely like the look of stainless, but I like the price of blued.

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 01-24-2009).]

After weeks of drooling and waiting I finally got my Federal Tax Return so I sauntered on down to Academy to find out that they were out of stock of PT140s... and 24/7 .40s... and Beretta PX4 .40s... (Those three were all on my maybe list, with the Milpro being on top). Bud's is OOS, The ones on Gunbroker etc are all over priced, plus you have to deal with the uncertainty of internet sales. Rather then wait 2 weeks for Academy to "maybe" get more in (their time frame and their "maybe"...) I went over to Dongs and picked up this beauty:



Academy's price for a Blued PT140 was $329. I paid $370 for this SS PT140 from Dongs which seems OK, not a steal or anything, but fair. Honestly I would rather have had the Blued at $40 cheaper, but no one had them (Bass Pro was OOS too, and even if they had had one, they wanted $440 for a blued model!! I'm surprised they sold any at all at that price!). Well, to be honest, Dong's had a Blued but it was only $10 cheaper. I figured at $360 for Blued or $370 for SS, I may as well go SS. My background check took all of 2 minutes and I was in and out in less then 15 minutes.

Overall I'm satisfied with my purchase. Now to clean all the gunk out of it and mount my laser.

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 02-20-2009).]

very nice, thinking about getting the g/f one of those. let us know how it shoots.

Just ordered my Supertuck like this one ('cept left handed, of course):



http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/beltslide.html

------------------
"The flag should be displayed with the union down, as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property."

Read my Earthship thread in Totally O/T
si vis pacem, para bellum
What part of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" is so hard to understand?!

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: Just ordered my Supertuck like this one ('cept left handed, of course): http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/beltslide.html

I have been carrying my PPS around in a Supertuck for a month or so now. I love the holster. Very comfortable and conceals great. I have to tuck shirts for work and my PPS is virtually unnoticeable now. Did you order a set of J-Hooks with it? I would recommend them, it makes the holster much less noticeable.

~ Derek

Well, still haven't shot it (will probably take it out to my brothers on tues to play with it) but I like it so far. I've switched the mag release to lefty (which is really the only reversibility this gun has). My only gripe so far is with the grips. The pattern tends to bite into my hand a little more then I'd like. So, I purchased a set of Pachmayr #3 slip-on grips like these:



And they should fit something like this once installed:


(above is not my gun, obviously)

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 03-01-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Derek_85GT: I have been carrying my PPS around in a Supertuck for a month or so now. I love the holster. Very comfortable and conceals great. I have to tuck shirts for work and my PPS is virtually unnoticeable now. Did you order a set of J-Hooks with it? I would recommend them, it makes the holster much less noticeable. ~ Derek

I am always afraid of ones tha aren't restrained, how well does it feel like its gripping the weapon for you?

I wonder if it would be effective with a G26. I could see a bit of bulge when he was moving with it tucked in, but the black hid the shape. A lighter colored shirt would not do a good a job.

I have a don hume iwb and it leaves something to be desired with some of my summer clothes. ( thats when i have to go with the tomcat 32 in the pocket )

The Supertuck is practically THE CCW holster over on Taurus Armed, seems like everyone has one, and I've not read even one bad review yet.

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 02-22-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Nurb432: I am always afraid of ones tha aren't restrained, how well does it feel like its gripping the weapon for you? I wonder if it would be effective with a G26. I could see a bit of bulge when he was moving with it tucked in, but the black hid the shape. A lighter colored shirt would not do a good a job. I have a don hume iwb and it leaves something to be desired with some of my summer clothes. ( thats when i have to go with the tomcat 32 in the pocket )

I have ran full sprint with my holster on and not had an issue. The leather backing on the holster (at least the way I wear it) curves to fit the form of your side (I'm a little pudgy, 5'9" 225lbs with big shoulders) and in doing so pushes my Walther up against the kydex mold. It holds it very well. I also have mine adjusted so it sits lower in my beltline with more cant. Reduces accessibility slightly but conceals very well. I wear it to work with light colored and light material button down shirts tucked in and I have not had any customers nor my boss notice anything. My normal attire is a t-shirt and jeans and that is what I wear in the summer also. Without a shirt tucked in I have noticed a few occasions where I've bent over at an awkward angle and the grip on my PPS printed. I write that off as "this is so be expected" type of movement, almost anything would print. The only difference I could see with a G26 is the width. My Walther is a hair over 1" wide at it's widest point, where as the G26 is double stacked and 1.25" wide. Of course for the summer I'm looking for a OWB holster for my PPS because I'll most likely open carry when I'm not at work.

Crossbread seems like a family run business, my interaction with them has been excellent. They have a 2 week return policy if you aren't happy with the holster so if you have the change sitting around I would highly recommend giving on a shot. Like OKflyboy said, I have heard positive reviews about Crossbread products from almost everyone. On the Pennsylvania Firearms Owners Association they come highly recommended.

~ Derek

[This message has been edited by Derek_85GT (edited 02-23-2009).]

Decided to try my hand at some "artistic" pics:

I dabbled also.



That is a nice looking Taurus btw.

~ Derek

Sweet, my USPS tracking for my grips just changed to:

quote Label/Receipt Number: ******** Status: Arrival at Unit Your item arrived at 5:57 AM on February 28, 2009 in SAND SPRINGS, OK. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please check again later.

which means they should be delivering it today!

Also, Crossbreed's website is listing a 2 week lead time for the holster, but I know someone who ordered their supertuck at the same time as I did, and they got it yesterday. OTOH, he's a righty, and I'm a lefty, and our orders reflected that, so I may see more of a delay since my lefty holster's a bit more of a "custom" job then his was...

------------------
"The flag should be displayed with the union down, as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property."

Read my Earthship thread in Totally O/T
si vis pacem, para bellum
What part of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" is so hard to understand?!

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 02-28-2009).]

I'm more of a revolver man myself but that's what I was raised with so I guess I'm comfortable with them. I've never had one fail on me and, since my dad was a retired Chicago cop, the .38 Police Special was what I was used to. If I was to go "auto" though, I'd probably look at the Colt 1911 Comp Commander. Again, it's .38 cal and I've always like the feel of it. Recoil is minimal so it's pretty accurate. The downside is it's a little large for a CC.



My S&W .38 fits in a calf holster on my leg and the Davis .22 derringer fits in a cell phone case on my belt! Both of which are completely invisible when I'm carrying, even in a t-shirt and jeans. The S&W's a little obvious when wearing shorts, though!

[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 02-28-2009).]

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: Also, Crossbreed's website is listing a 2 week lead time for the holster, but I know someone who ordered their supertuck at the same time as I did, and they got it yesterday. OTOH, he's a righty, and I'm a lefty, and our orders reflected that, so I may see more of a delay since my lefty holster's a bit more of a "custom" job then his was...

When I ordered my Supertuck I got it about a week after I ordered it. I shoot right handed.

~ Derek

Got my grips and my supertuck today! Woohoo!

The IWB thing is going to take some getting used to, I think, but I like it!

I bought this about 5 months ago. 24/7 Compact pro 9mm. Over 1000 rounds (FMJ and HP) fired so far and still no problems. I have never had a stovepipe, misfire, or any other issue. Taurus makes a pretty damn good pistol.

quote Originally posted by CoryFiero: I did have to get used to the sights though. I was used to shooting my 9mil Beretta service weapon. This one has a stacked 8 sight. I am still thinking about switching. EDIT: Stacked 8, straight 8, I'm not sure what it is called.

I tried really hard to find a 24/7 Compact locally and finally gave up, no one had them, no one could order them.

As for the sights, I've heard the called both. I'm not too thrilled with them either, for the same reason you mentioned, I'm used to the traditional 3-dot sight picture. I've been considering a set of Williams Firesights:

http://www.midwayusa.com/ep...ct?saleitemid=969883

(Not from midway, though. I found and bookmarked a supplier that had them in stock, but I'm on the wrong computer right now).

I've still not had a chance to shoot my MilPro. I went out to my brother's only to be told that since the neighbors finished their house behind his, there's no safe place to shoot any longer. I just don't have the time/money to go to the range right now, but if I can't find a decent place to shoot in a week or two, I may just have to find time/money for the range...

I'll post a few pics of the grips and holster when I get a chance.

------------------
"The flag should be displayed with the union down, as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property."

Read my Earthship thread in Totally O/T
si vis pacem, para bellum
What part of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" is so hard to understand?!

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: Got my grips and my supertuck today! Woohoo! The IWB thing is going to take some getting used to, I think, but I like it!

Wear it as much as possible and let the leather break in! Mine is much more comfortable now than it was when I bought it.

~ Derek

quote Originally posted by Derek_85GT: Wear it as much as possible and let the leather break in! Mine is much more comfortable now than it was when I bought it. ~ Derek

I'm taking your advice and I've been wearing it all day, even to Walmart for groceries (without the gun, until I get my CCW permit). Thanks!

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: I'm taking your advice and I've been wearing it all day, even to Walmart for groceries (without the gun, until I get my CCW permit). Thanks!

I actually wore mine empty around campus for a few weeks when I first got it. I adjusted position once I started carrying. And you're welcome, I hope your happy with the holster.

~ Derek

[This message has been edited by Derek_85GT (edited 02-28-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Derek_85GT: I actually wore mine empty around campus for a few weeks when I first got it. I adjusted position once I started carrying. And you're welcome, I hope your happy with the holster. ~ Derek

I am very happy with it so far! I'm considering wearing it to work tomorrow (again, without the gun)...