Look guys. I've been thinking about this for a while now but didn't know how to bring it up. Please don't flame me because I am not very knowledgible about Obama other than what I hear and see in the media. Isn't/wasn't Obama a muslum? His middle name is Hussain and I've seen pictures of him in muslum style clothing. Weren't the 911 terrorist muslum? Doesn't the majority of muslum contries have hate for Americans? Didn't the terrorists lie and deceive the USA about their intentions when coming to this country?
WHY and HOW could we as a country take a chance in electing a muslum president? Has everone forgot about 911? Just because he sayed hes not muslum anymore isn't good enough for me. I am a normal person and try to have normal/decent thoughts and actions toward people of all races and religions. I would like to say I'm not a racist but I also don't want to be a hypocrite. To a point eveyone is a racist no matter what color you skin is. I do firmly believe people are so caught up in the fact that a black man is running for president that they don't realize what their doing and who they may be supporting.
If it were Colon Powell (sp) I would have NO problem. I have mixed feelings about this election as it is because of the economy but the last thing we need is a FOOLISH mistake of this magnitude.
You are wrong. Obama is not a muslim he is a christian. The problem is that the church he attended for the last 20 years is a radical, racist, anti-american church that discourages racial integration. Of course there are many many more reasons why I would never vote for obama but just that one is enough for me.
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08:42 PM
CoryFiero Member
Posts: 4341 From: Charleston, SC Registered: Oct 2001
You are wrong. Obama is not a muslim he is a christian. The problem is that the church he attended for the last 20 years is a radical, racist, anti-american church that discourages racial integration. Of course there are many many more reasons why I would never vote for obama but just that one is enough for me.
That is my reason btw
Don't need to know anything else, and I don't realize why it isn't more important to everyone else...
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08:46 PM
vinny Member
Posts: 1690 From: starkville MISSISSIPPI Registered: Mar 2003
But I'll play along. Lets say his real name is Osama, and he is a devout Muslim.
The other Osama (Bin Ladin) has called for a holy war on us for several reasons. 1) US policies on interventionism and imperialism. (esp. with regards to Palestine) 2) Our perceived debauchery 3) Being non-muslim
Now, if the president gets rid of the perceptions of 1 and 3, with regards to removing troops from Iraq and being a muslim, would that not make America safer from Islamo-terrorists?
/devils advocate.
Now, with regards to Obama, he has said if Pakistan is unwilling/unable to kill/capture terrorists in their country, that he would take swift action. Palin (to her credit) has also said this. McCain is the only one who would not go after these terrorists.
...Back to your regularly scheduled poo flinging contest....
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08:54 PM
vinny Member
Posts: 1690 From: starkville MISSISSIPPI Registered: Mar 2003
The original poster is wrong, Obama is not Muslim. His father was, he did go to a muslim school, but for over 20 years he's attended a Christian church (of sorts).
As to the rest of your points................
1) I wish people like you would come to the realization that unless we absolutely and completely abandon Israel, which isn't going to happen (and shouldn't happen) the radical Muslims will never be satisfied on this point. You can appease, give them money, do anything you want, but until you agree with the radicals that "Israel should be wiped off the map", they ain't gonna be happy.
2) Our "perceived debauchery" in their eyes is our lifestyle in the west. Not just the US, but Canada and Europe as well. Do you think Japan will get a pass, or Australia? I think not. So, bearing that in mind, the only way to remove THAT little problem is to give up our lifestyle. I'm not willing to do that. Are you?
3) Being non-Muslim. Even if Obama WERE Muslim, the US would not be. There are an estimated 5 million Muslims in the US out of about 300 million people. That is less than 2%, or IOW over 98% NON-MUSLIM. Do you really think it will matter one way or the other if the President was Muslim to the radicals? Get real.
Last, I'd really like a link to what exactly Obama said, in context, about going into Pakistan to get Bin Laden. If he actually said that, in context, that he would violate a sovereign NUCLEAR POWER NATION'S border, he's a much larger fool than even I gave him credit for and shows the depths of his inexperience in matters of foreign policy.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:
Yes.
But I'll play along. Lets say his real name is Osama, and he is a devout Muslim.
The other Osama (Bin Ladin) has called for a holy war on us for several reasons. 1) US policies on interventionism and imperialism. (esp. with regards to Palestine) 2) Our perceived debauchery 3) Being non-muslim
Now, if the president gets rid of the perceptions of 1 and 3, with regards to removing troops from Iraq and being a muslim, would that not make America safer from Islamo-terrorists?
/devils advocate.
Now, with regards to Obama, he has said if Pakistan is unwilling/unable to kill/capture terrorists in their country, that he would take swift action. Palin (to her credit) has also said this. McCain is the only one who would not go after these terrorists.
...Back to your regularly scheduled poo flinging contest....
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09:06 PM
vinny Member
Posts: 1690 From: starkville MISSISSIPPI Registered: Mar 2003
Most of that is nonsequitur. Carter didn't do squat, Clinton fought wars our girls could have won, and had lots of U.N. help. The rest are REALLY old, and not representative of the current Democratic party.
[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 10-14-2008).]
Well I stand corrected. like I said I havent been following poitics as close as some of you on the forum.
Please do your homework next time before you post, and to condemn a group of people just because of there religion is thinking just like what you hate " a terrorist " .
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09:20 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Most of this was already covered, but no, he's not a Muslim, and I don't think it would make any difference if he was. At least not to me. It wouldn't stop me for voting for him, if I were inclined to do so.
Please do your homework next time before you post, and to condemn a group of people just because of there religion is thinking just like what you hate " a terrorist " .
Not quite. Wanting to kill them and attempting to would be thinking like a terrorist.
I wasn't trying to start a argument. I was just kind of wondering and wanting to know. If hes not well then good and no I don't hate anyone because of religion or race.
Last, I'd really like a link to what exactly Obama said, in context, about going into Pakistan to get Bin Laden. If he actually said that, in context, that he would violate a sovereign NUCLEAR POWER NATION'S border, he's a much larger fool than even I gave him credit for and shows the depths of his inexperience in matters of foreign policy.
Please do your homework next time before you post, and to condemn a group of people just because of there religion is thinking just like what you hate " a terrorist " .
Pppphhhttt, yeah right. Cause everyone else around here does. And no one else ever generalizes, right?
At least he was honest enough to pose it as a question, not a statement of fact like so many uninformed people around here try to do.
Aside from anything else, the guy actually scares me. I wasn't attached to McCain by any means, and really tried to give Obama a chance. The more I learn about him, the more he scares me. I can't even begin to imagine how many ways we're gonna be f***ed if he becomes president.
[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 10-14-2008).]
Pppphhhttt, yeah right. Cause everyone else around here does. And no one else ever generalizes, right?
At least he was honest enough to pose it as a question, not a statement of fact like so many uninformed people around here try to do.
Aside from anything else, the guy actually scares me. I wasn't attached to McCain by any means, and really tried to give Obama a chance. The more I learn about him, the more he scares me. I can't even begin to imagine how many ways we're gonna be f***ed if he becomes president.
"Pppphhhttt, yeah right. Cause everyone else around here does. And no one else ever generalizes, right?" I would have to agree with you on this but it does not make it right.
"At least he was honest enough to pose it as a question, not a statement of fact like so many uninformed people around here try to do." So I can say what ever I want? I just have to put a question mark at the end?
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10:15 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Please do your homework next time before you post, and to condemn a group of people just because of there religion is thinking just like what you hate " a terrorist " .
Calm down please. I didn't condemn anyone.
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10:24 PM
texasfiero Member
Posts: 4674 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: Jun 2003
You are wrong. Obama is not a muslim he is a christian. The problem is that the church he attended for the last 20 years is a radical, racist, anti-american church that discourages racial integration. Of course there are many many more reasons why I would never vote for obama but just that one is enough for me.
He says he is a christian, however, two very important issues to christians are abortion and protection of Israel.
He said that determining when life begins is 'above my pay grade', but for the christian, who believes his bible, the answer is here:
The Call of Jeremiah 4 The word of the LORD came to me, saying, 5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew [a] you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."
Jeremiah's personality and role as God's servant in history was determined before his birth. Obama should have been able to answer that question.
On Israel:
Same source as previous: Genesis 12 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV)
Genesis 12 The Call of Abram 1 The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you. 2 "I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."
The 'Reverend' Jesse Jackson, as a 'minister' should have known about God's promise in Genesis 12:3. Obama, as a 'christian', should also know. Both of them should know from history, that the nation that mistreats Israel does not fare well.
If Jesse is an Obama supporter, why would he make such a statement, if he doesn't know the man? If Obama is a christian, then he should take heed in the promise/warning of Genesis 12:3
Democratic presidential frontrunner Sen. Barack Obama served as a paid director on the board of a nonprofit organization that granted funding to a controversial Arab group that mourns the establishment of Israel as a "catastrophe." (Obama has also reportedly spoken at fundraisers for Palestinians living in what the United Nations terms refugee camps.)
The co-founder of the Arab group, Columbia University professor Rashid Khalidi, is a harsh critic of Israel who reportedly worked on behalf of the Palestine Liberation Organization when it was labeled a terror group by the State Department.
Khalidi held a fundraiser in 2000 for Obama's failed bid for a seat in the U.S. House of Representatives.
In 2001, the Woods Fund, a Chicago-based nonprofit that describes itself as a group helping the disadvantaged, provided a $40,000 grant to the Arab American Action Network, or AAAN, at which Khalidi's wife, Mona, serves as president. The Fund provided a second grant to AAAN for $35,000 in 2002.
Obama was a director of the Woods Fund board from 1999 to Dec. 11, 2002, according to the Fund's website. According to tax filings, Obama received compensation of $6,000 per year for his service in 1999 and 2000.
The $40,000 grant from the Woods Fund to AAAN constituted about a fifth of the group's re ported grants for 2001, also according to tax filings. The $35,000 Woods Fund grant in 2002 made up about one-fifth of AAAN's reported grants for that year as well.
Headquartered in the heart of Chicago's Palestinian immigrant community, AAAN describes itself as working to "empower Chicago-area Arab immigrants and Arab Americans through the combined strategies of community organizing, advocacy, education and social services, leadership development, and forging productive relationships with other communities."
Speakers at AAAN dinners and events routinely have taken an anti-Israel line. The group co-sponsored a Palestinian art exhibit, titled "The Subject of Palestine," that featured works related to what Palestinians call the "nakba" or "catastrophe" of Israel's founding in 1948. Advertisement
The theme of AAAN's Nakba art exhibit, held at DePaul University in 2005, was "the compelling and continuing tragedy of Palestinian life ... under [Israeli] occupation ... home demolition ... statelessness ... bereavement ... martyrdom, and ... the heroic struggle for life, for safety, and for freedom."
Another AAAN initiative, "Al Nakba 1948 As Experienced by Chicago Palestinians," seeks documents related to the "catastrophe" of Israel's founding.
Although AAAN co-founder Rashid Khalidi has at times denied working directly for the PLO, he reportedly served as director of the official PLO press agency WAFA in Beirut from 1976 to 1982, a period during which the PLO committed scores of anti-Western attacks and was labeled by the U.S. as a terror group. Khalidi's wife, Mona Khalidi, reportedly was WAFA's English translator during that period.
Khalidi also advised the Palestinian delegation to the Madrid Conference in 1991. During documented speeches and public events, Khalidi has called Israel an "apartheid system in creation" and a "racist" state. Critics have accused him of excusing Palestinian terrorism, a charge he denies.
He dedicated his 1986 book, Under Siege, to "those who gave their lives ... in defense of the cause of Palestine and independence of Lebanon."
While the Woods Fund's contribution to Khalidi's AAAN might be perceived as a one-time contact with Obama, there is evidence of a deeper relationship between the presidential hopeful and Khalidi.
According to a professor at the University of Chicago who said he has known Obama for 12 years, the senator first befriended Khalidi when the two worked together at the university. The professor spoke on condition of anonymity. Khalidi lectured at the University of Chicago until 2003; Obama taught law there from 1993 until his election to the Senate in 2004.
Asked during a radio interview with this reporter on WABC's John Batchelor program about his 2000 fundraiser for Obama, Khalidi said he "was just doing my duties as a Chicago resident to help my local politician."
Khalidi said he supports Obama for president "because he is the only candidate who has expressed sympathy for the Palestinian cause."
Khalidi also lauded Obama for "saying he supports talks with Iran. If the U.S. can talk with the Soviet Union during the Cold War, there is no reason it can't talk with the Iranians."
Concerning Obama's role in funding AAAN, Khalidi claimed he "never heard of the Woods Fund until it popped up on a bunch of blogs a few months ago." He terminated the interview when pressed further about his links with Obama.
Contacted by phone, Mona Khalidi refused to answer questions about AAAN's involvement with Obama.
The Obama campaign did not reply to a list of questions sent by e-mail to the senator's press office.
In addition to questions about his relationship with Khalidi, Obama may face increased scrutiny over his ties to William C. Ayers, a member of the Weather Underground terrorist group that sought to overthrow the U.S. government and took responsibility for a string of bombings in the early 1970's.
Obama served on the Woods Fund board alongside Ayers (who is still on the board). Ayers, a professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, has written about his involvement with the Weather Underground's bombing of U.S. governmental buildings including the Capitol in 1971 and the Pentagon in 1972.
Although charges against him were dropped in 1974 due to prosecutorial misconduct, Ayers told a newspaper reporter several years ago that he had no second thoughts about his violent past. "I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough," Ayers told The New York Times in an interview published, ironically, on Sept. 11, 2001.
In his memoir, Fugitive Days, Ayers wrote: "Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon" - though he continued with a disclaimer that he didn't personally set the bombs but his group placed the explosives and planned the attack.
Besides serving with Obama on the board of the Woods Fund, Ayers contributed $200 to Obama's senatorial campaign fund and has served on panels with Obama at several public speaking engagements.
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10:38 PM
BHall71 Member
Posts: 339 From: Yukon, OK. U.S.A. Registered: Jun 2007
As shallow as it sounds the name will have an impact. What is American society today going to look like in 50years when the history books show what happened and who was to blame for 9/11 and the following president elected was named Barack Hussein Obama? Forgiving? or Naive?
I am in no way supporting either candidate, it's just like it always is, a choice between the lesser of two evils. Hell, I don't even know if I am going to even vote. They both suck, just have to figure out who will not get us in any bigger of a mess than we are already in thanks to good ole W.
Just my .02..........................flame on!
Brian
[This message has been edited by BHall71 (edited 10-14-2008).]
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10:45 PM
Oct 15th, 2008
gunslinger Member
Posts: 352 From: southland pines,fl Registered: Mar 2008
George Bush did suck too but no one is acknowledging that after 8 years of misery,what if there was a candidate named Randolph Hitler or Chou lyuen Kim or better still Joseph Stalin running all born Americans would it matter .??
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12:18 AM
MDFierolvr Member
Posts: 2025 From: Great Mills, MD Registered: Mar 2004
George Bush did suck too but no one is acknowledging that after 8 years of misery,what if there was a candidate named Randolph Hitler or Chou lyuen Kim or better still Joseph Stalin running all born Americans would it matter .??
This is kinda straying away from the point a little, but I can see your point.
Basically the OP was not distinguishing between groups and leaning along the ideas that the christian way is the way that our country should be run. which I can understand but it contradicts our very existence
Seperation of church and state my ***. Give me one election when politicians don't use religion to swing votes and I will give you two candidates that don't sh** on the constitution.
[This message has been edited by MDFierolvr (edited 10-15-2008).]
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12:57 AM
PFF
System Bot
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
You are wrong. Obama is not a muslim he is a christian. The problem is that the church he attended for the last 20 years is a radical, racist, anti-american church that discourages racial integration. Of course there are many many more reasons why I would never vote for obama but just that one is enough for me.
Christian? From Obama's own mouth and website...
" And even if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools? Would we go with James Dobson's, or Al Sharpton's? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount - a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application? So before we get carried away, let's read our bibles. Folks haven't been reading their bibles. " http://www.barackobama.com/..._keynote_address.php
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02:15 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43225 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
" And even if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools? Would we go with James Dobson's, or Al Sharpton's? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount - a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application? So before we get carried away, let's read our bibles. Folks haven't been reading their bibles. " http://www.barackobama.com/..._keynote_address.php
I sincerely doubt Obama is using the Christianity bit for more than trying to snag some votes from Christians. On you bible references, run the country? If anyone were to run a country based on the bible it would be the whole bible. Taking things out of teh context of the whole bible causes confusion. The culture of the time also needs to be noticed.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 10-15-2008).]
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08:19 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43225 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
"At least he was honest enough to pose it as a question, not a statement of fact like so many uninformed people around here try to do." So I can say what ever I want? I just have to put a question mark at the end?
Actually, yes, you can say anything you want, and you don't even HAVE to put a question mark on the end of it. It's called the 1st Amendment. It (supposedly) assures you that you can.
Having said that, in this particular case, we may actually be discussing grammar rather than Constitutional Law. So my observation would be that if you put a question mark on the end, it technically makes it a question. That would be "asking", as opposed to "saying", which implies a statement. I realize he wrote it in the form of a statement, but the ruling component would be the final punctuation mark, which was a question mark. Therefore, technically and grammatically, it was a question.
Look guys. I've been thinking about this for a while now but didn't know how to bring it up. Please don't flame me because I am not very knowledgible about Obama other than what I hear and see in the media. Isn't/wasn't Obama a muslum? His middle name is Hussain and I've seen pictures of him in muslum style clothing. Weren't the 911 terrorist muslum? Doesn't the majority of muslum contries have hate for Americans? Didn't the terrorists lie and deceive the USA about their intentions when coming to this country?
WHY and HOW could we as a country take a chance in electing a muslum president? Has everone forgot about 911? Just because he sayed hes not muslum anymore isn't good enough for me. I am a normal person and try to have normal/decent thoughts and actions toward people of all races and religions. I would like to say I'm not a racist but I also don't want to be a hypocrite. To a point eveyone is a racist no matter what color you skin is. I do firmly believe people are so caught up in the fact that a black man is running for president that they don't realize what their doing and who they may be supporting.
If it were Colon Powell (sp) I would have NO problem. I have mixed feelings about this election as it is because of the economy but the last thing we need is a FOOLISH mistake of this magnitude.
Am I wrong?
Holy christ. Have you been hiding under a rock for the last two years. Obama is not a secret terrorist mus"lum"!
Did you hear that John McCain gave up military secrets while he was in prison and that he had a secret black baby? Did you also hear he had an affair with a lobbyist? Did you know he was senile? Did you know he has cancer and won;t last much longer? Did you know McCain is notoriously hot tempered and prone to crazy outbursts? Did you know he supported Nazi contras in the 80's? Do you see how damn STUPID that sounds. I don't believe 99% of that BS about John McCain, but you are willing to believe Obama is a mus"lum" terrorist?
[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 10-15-2008).]
The original poster is wrong, Obama is not Muslim. His father was, he did go to a muslim school, but for over 20 years he's attended a Christian church (of sorts).
No he didn't. He attended a public school in Indonesia for a year or two. Indonesia has a lot of muslim's, but it also has a lot of other religious groups... like Christians.
quote
Last, I'd really like a link to what exactly Obama said, in context, about going into Pakistan to get Bin Laden. If he actually said that, in context, that he would violate a sovereign NUCLEAR POWER NATION'S border, he's a much larger fool than even I gave him credit for and shows the depths of his inexperience in matters of foreign policy.
John Stricker
You're the fool if you think Pakistan is going to hunt Bin Laden on their own. Obama said he would allow our military to proceed with precision strikes on high level terrorists if Pakistan is unwilling or unable.
John, if you were president and knew Bin Laden was in a house across the border in Pakistan, would you sit on your hands while the Pakistani's give you lip service?
Originally posted by RideZiLightning: Then don't post It'll get you canned
vinny, damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. You did good. I read that Lightning was trying to help you but, I applaud you for going to a source of information in which you would get two different answers and making an informed decision. Plus to you.
