You've all seen the ads on TV for CNG. I didn't know much about it but being disgustingly curious I had to google the subject and I found some interesting info:

The first problem, of course, is infrastructure. There are some CNG station near me. In the entire Bay Area there are just 3! But it occured to me that most of us have Natural Gas piped right to our houses. Soooooooo, check this out!:

http://alternativefuels.abo...NG-refueling-photos/

CNG conversion kits costs as little as $1500 for a 4-cylinder car and go up from there.

http://ewsews.com/cnghome.html

See and hear a car running on CNG:


Thoughts?

for as much as i drive, it would take me bout 30years to recover from spending hte 1500 :P

but one of my customers at work did it... he likes it... altho he says he drives about 50miles a month tops on the truck he converted....

Once the demand goes up so will the price. I'm all for it but like most alt-fuels there isn't much of an infrastructure for it.

Don't forget the tax credit for AFV!

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Don't forget the tax credit for AFV!

You should see ethanol's.

quote Originally posted by Phranc: Once the demand goes up so will the price.

Actually that is only true if we hit a supply ceiling like we have done with Petroleum. Not likely since we have so much of the damn stuff. Price should actually go down. AND, your car can still run on regular gasoline too. Just flip the switch.

The convenience of being able to fill-up at home is what impresses me:

Check this out:


Considering that I spend about $80/week on gasoline that is about $4160 per year! It would not take long at all to totally recover the cost of CNG conversion with home refueling.

I've been thinking that too. It'd take a year or so to pay for itself in my case too... less if gasoline goes up more (which it probably will).
$7000 for the filling station though... ouch.

[This message has been edited by D B Cooper (edited 09-05-2008).]

Is that legal? I remember hearing about people using home heating oil in diesel trucks. One person I know got pulled over and ticketed for using the wrong fuel, apparently there is a die put in one of them, so if your fuel doesn't match you get ticketed.

[This message has been edited by Xanth (edited 09-05-2008).]

YES!!
An Emphatic YES!

We are ready to be billionaires.

My brother's company:



http://www.marlingas.com/index.html

Ready to begin deliveries NOW.

quote Originally posted by Xanth: Is that legal? I remember hearing about people using home heating oil in diesel trucks. One person I know got pulled over and ticketed for using the wrong fuel, apparently there is a die put in one of them, so if your fuel doesn't match you get ticketed.

True about the diesel fuel. But that's all about emissions. The road diesel is cleaner burning than the home fuel. And, yes. If you put home fuel in your truck, you can get a healthy fine.

I found a station in my area but they were charging $2.50 a gallon. Not sure that is worth it knowing that energy per volume of CNG doesn't go as far a gas. other places are around $1.14 or so

Looks like it might work for a few ppl, but in my area there is no filling stations within 100 miles. The closest station is $1.95.

Cummins produced more CNG engines last year than Diesel engines...

I say its only a matter of time before more commercial infrastructure is developed for it.

Discounting their current sale prices, the actual cost of a "kit" is more like $2500+ since you will also have to buy a tank ($1500/kit + $1000/tank). I'm not sure where they come up with a sub-$1.00/unit price for CNG. According to the CNG fueling station locator on their site, most of the stations are between $1.50/unit and $3.00/unit. I understand that your fuel mileage will increase somewhat, but it's still not as good as they're making it out to be. I agree that CNG is a viable alternative to gasoline/diesel but just not yet. Also, you can't just run a "T" off of your home natural gas line as it's not pressurized. The compressor needed to accomplish that is around $4500. Now, we're talking about a minimum $7000 investment if you don't have a local fueling station. Even if you could halve your cost per mile (which seems probable), it would take a long time to justify the return.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Don't forget the tax credit for AFV!

There isn't any tax credit unless the system is certified and installed by a professional (which, according to the website could cost upwards of $12,000). The website said that certifying a system for a certain make/model vehicle runs around $250,000! I doubt the $1500-$3000 tax credit/year (what most of the hybrids get) would be worth it. About the only ways CNG makes sense right now is either a vehicle turning lots of miles (i.e. city bus) or for purely environmental reasons.

I'm all for saving the ozone layer but nobody is going to pay the kind of money it takes to make that happen this way. Hopefully, the US will get their collective heads out of their collective butts and work on certifying this kind of thing and ultimately making it cheap enough for the masses.

CNG is huge in other countries in Europe and Asia. In fact, we can a converted Peugeot station wagon back in the 80's with it in Belgium, and besides the massive in car tank that took up a lot of the rear cargo space, it behaved much like a regular car. The beauty of CNG conversion is that you basically have 2 fuel systems, so you can fall back to gasoline if the refueling isn't possible with CNG.

quote Originally posted by randye: YES!! An Emphatic YES! We are ready to be billionaires. My brother's company: http://www.marlingas.com/index.html Ready to begin deliveries NOW.

Well now let's talk stock options Hoss.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Well now let's talk stock options Hoss.

Wouldn't mind getting on the piece of the action, myself.

quote Originally posted by Grim001: I found a station in my area but they were charging $2.50 a gallon. Not sure that is worth it knowing that energy per volume of CNG doesn't go as far a gas. other places are around $1.14 or so

There are local stations selling in the Bay Area for around $2.20/gallon. But if you really want to save you need the home refueler. It is a large up front expense but the savings add-up fast. Depending on local rates the equivalant could be $.85 to $1.50/gallon from your home station. Imagine going back to 1980 prices for gas! I would make that up in just 2 years on one car and if we did two cars the cost would be made up in about a year.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Well now let's talk stock options Hoss.

Publicly traded?

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Publicly traded?

HELL NO!
.
.
.
.
Not until the IPO anyway.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: HELL NO! . . . . Not until the IPO anyway.

Just asking-ya don't have to scream at me.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Just asking-ya don't have to scream at me.

Sorry. Economic expansion give me a chubby.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Publicly traded?

Privately owned right now, but you can rest assured that first news of an IPO, if and when it occurs, *will* be announced to my friends

Marlin was started to provide a "pipeline on wheels", primarily to move gas from "stranded" wells and gas fields to end users.
The problem has always been getting a pipeline across all the land that it needs to cross to get the gas to market.
This can cost tens of millions of dollars for each property the pipeline must cross, and entail years of litigation in court, and is the reason so many gas wells are capped and never used in this country. (stranded)
There are many, many instances of investors drilling for oil and hitting gas, (very common, as gas "domes" are frequently found atop oil deposits).
Knowing that securing "right of way" to get a pipeline out to get their gas to market was virtually impossible, nearly all of these wells were capped.
My brother found a way to get that gas to end users and cornered the market years ago.
It is obvious that all that would be required now would be to provide the end user "terminals", (read; "gas stations"), where the CNG can can be delivered and available for motor vehicles and for manufacturers to start producing CNG ready vehicles.
Another key thing that we can all do right now is to push our legislators to enact tax credits for the conversion of our existing vehicles to use CNG.
I won't go into details here, but I will say that the "Pickens Plan" may have some serious "legs" to it.
http://www.pickensplan.com/

Marlin already HAS one of the major links in the chain ready to go RIGHT NOW.

Edit to add:

CNG energy does not require the building of massive, and expensive, refineries. Marlin's technology in well site equipment, efficiently receives, filters, dries and compresses natural gas AT the well and delivers CNG directly to the end user, "ready to burn". It literally doesn't get much easier or cleaner than that.

DRILL HERE
DRILL NOW

Potential Natural Gas Resources of the U.S.
(Trillion Cubic Feet)

Lower 48 States:

Onshore 812.799
Offshore 154.279
Total Lower 48 = 965.618

Alaska
Onshore 94.432
Offshore 99.366
Total Alaska = 193.831

Total Traditional 1154.809
Coalbed Methane 166.141

Total United States = 1320.950

Source: Potential Gas Committee - Potential Supply of Natural Gas in the United States, 2007

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 09-06-2008).]

I looked at a few of those sites posted. To get a setup for my Duke powered car with home refueling it will cost me:

$1200 4 cyl kit
$2600 DOT certified 5.6 GGE @ 3000 psi tank
$6900 2 vehicle home refueling station

Total = $10,700 + shipping (I would guess it would be around $400-500 for the tank and equipment total)

That is with me doing all the work. If I skip the $6900 home refueling setup, then I have to refuel at a station and then I am paying highway taxes so the cost of the fuel is higher.

I spend about $150-200 per month on gas or 37.5-50 gallon a month @ $4/gallon average. I will just assume $200 since it is a round number. If the CNG cost $0.85 per gallon then I will save $157.50 / month. It will take me 5 years and 8 months for the system to pay for itself.

If I go the other route without the home refueling station then we are looking at around $2.35/gallon for CNG so that cuts the savings down to just $1.65/gallon but the total cost is reduced to $3,800. My savings per month is reduced to $82.50 and it will take 3 years and 10 months for the system to pay for itself.

All of these numbers are assuming that CNG and gasoline stay at their current prices.

2 vehicle home refueling station? You can't have them take turns?

The ads I have seen on TV advertise CNG as a temporary fix. I see alot of numbers above, how long would CNG last if we did this, and what would it do to home and business heating costs, and would we need to replace CNG then to heat our homes with other things? Our in home natural gas costs rose significantly already.

Wondering

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 09-06-2008).]

I've heard alot of others state that their home natural gas prices have jumped in the past couple of years. Mine only went up about 3% last year. I wonder if this is a regional thing?

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: If I skip the $6900 home refueling setup, then I have to refuel at a station and then I am paying highway taxes so the cost of the fuel is higher.

If you refuel at home, you are still responsible for paying highway taxes on your fuel.

But who's going to know exactly what you need to pay? And who's going to bother checking it out? Until CNG becomes very popular, nobody will know the difference. (Except maybe your local gas station attendent. )

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: I looked at a few of those sites posted. To get a setup for my Duke powered car with home refueling it will cost me: $1200 4 cyl kit $2600 DOT certified 5.6 GGE @ 3000 psi tank $6900 2 vehicle home refueling station Total = $10,700 + shipping (I would guess it would be around $400-500 for the tank and equipment total) That is with me doing all the work. If I skip the $6900 home refueling setup, then I have to refuel at a station and then I am paying highway taxes so the cost of the fuel is higher. I spend about $150-200 per month on gas or 37.5-50 gallon a month @ $4/gallon average. I will just assume $200 since it is a round number. If the CNG cost $0.85 per gallon then I will save $157.50 / month. It will take me 5 years and 8 months for the system to pay for itself. If I go the other route without the home refueling station then we are looking at around $2.35/gallon for CNG so that cuts the savings down to just $1.65/gallon but the total cost is reduced to $3,800. My savings per month is reduced to $82.50 and it will take 3 years and 10 months for the system to pay for itself. All of these numbers are assuming that CNG and gasoline stay at their current prices.

Did you figure in the cost of the electricity or gas to run the compressor for the home refueling station???

That would make sense then. I live in a small city/town (about 30k). Overhead must be less than in a larger city although there are less customers to carry the extra cost. Are there any sites out there that help explain all of this? I don't know why I'm interested in the specific cost break down but I am.

quote Originally posted by Monkeyman: That would make sense then. I live in a small city/town (about 30k). Overhead must be less than in a larger city although there are less customers to carry the extra cost. Are there any sites out there that help explain all of this? I don't know why I'm interested in the specific cost break down but I am.

Oh come on now! "Pee-ru" hasn't grown more than that since I left Indiana??

Don't know of any helpful websites right at the moment, but I'll keep it in mind and let you know.

You used to live up here??? Where?

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: I looked at a few of those sites posted. To get a setup for my Duke powered car with home refueling it will cost me: $1200 4 cyl kit $2600 DOT certified 5.6 GGE @ 3000 psi tank $6900 2 vehicle home refueling station Total = $10,700 + shipping (I would guess it would be around $400-500 for the tank and equipment total) That is with me doing all the work. If I skip the $6900 home refueling setup, then I have to refuel at a station and then I am paying highway taxes so the cost of the fuel is higher. I spend about $150-200 per month on gas or 37.5-50 gallon a month @ $4/gallon average. I will just assume $200 since it is a round number. If the CNG cost $0.85 per gallon then I will save $157.50 / month. It will take me 5 years and 8 months for the system to pay for itself. If I go the other route without the home refueling station then we are looking at around $2.35/gallon for CNG so that cuts the savings down to just $1.65/gallon but the total cost is reduced to $3,800. My savings per month is reduced to $82.50 and it will take 3 years and 10 months for the system to pay for itself. All of these numbers are assuming that CNG and gasoline stay at their current prices.

Buy a car that is already CNG converted!

http://sfbay.craigslist.org...inAsk=min&maxAsk=max

quote Originally posted by randye: Oh come on now! "Pee-ru" hasn't grown more than that since I left Indiana??

I'll second that. I used to live in Warsaw from 94 to 99. Someday I'll probably move back.

Interesting topic.

Huh. I know Warsaw pretty well as I grew up in North Manchester. I moved to Wabash when I got shackled (sorry, married) the last time and lived there for almost 10 years then moved to Peru a couple of years ago. As a matter of fact, I drove a truck locally for a company out of Winona Lake. (Some powder coating company...I don't remember their name.)

quote Originally posted by Monkeyman: You used to live up here??? Where?

Born and raised in Indy

quote Originally posted by Monkeyman: Hang on. If you own a CNG powered vehicle, you get to use the HOV lanes as a single occupant and get free bridge tolls? Not that this would make the conversion any less painful, but it's something else to consider if someone lives in an area where this would be beneficial. I also notice that one of the ads was selling an official Police Interceptor vehicle. For some reason, I was under the impression that CNG powered vehicles lost power compared to gasoline powered vehicles. I guess not, huh? I lernt sumthin new tuday.

Power loss can be about 5-10% but all you have to do is add headers and a few other standard power upgrades and you're right back to where you were.

YES, we get to use HOV lanes and pay no tolls, AND there is a huge Federal AND State tax credit on the tax return too!

More about tax credits: http://alternativefuels.abo...ams/a/taxcredits.htm

I think that Police Interceptor is CNG only but most vehicles are dual fuel so you can still pump it with gas if necessary.

I am still going over the numbers and looking at options but it looks like there is a viable solution here if one can find the right deals.

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 09-07-2008).]