I've asked some questions before here, and rayb gave me a couple of tips. But I need to get this thing up and running, to sell it, and the 3 phase generator it drives.
So, here we go..sorry for repeat questions from last time..canīt find the thread!! best to get all advice in one place, anyway for reference.

This is an old diesel engine, apparently manufactured by the same Company that make Lamborghinis( ). It hasnīt been started for many years, but is free turning, and has a good compression. So..a couple of photos of the offending beast!!

The fuel seems to be gravity fed to the filter, and then from the filter to the base of the engine seems to be a fuel pump? I guess this runs off a cam or by crankscase pressure/vacuum?
I will post some photos with things pointed out that I need clarification on.








Any tips gratefully received!! As the wife said in the bakery, when the Bank rang about her husband's overdraft 'He is kneading the dough'..and the Bank replied 'So are WE'!!
hehehe!
Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 04-24-2008).]

diesels are funny
some of the funny things:
the fuel pump. high pressure. VERY high pressure. and - timed. yes - probably runs of the cam or crank - and it will have a timing mark.
the fuel itself - MUST keep moisture out. algea can actually grow in clear fuel lines & fuel tanks. the fuel filter usualy has a water seperator on it - a little spigot you can open every so often to drain the water
glow plugs. for cold starts. make sure the glow plug system is working - most often - blown fuse - which can often be more like a fuseable link - than a classic "circuit breaker"
injectors - MUST have a good spray pattern.

anyways - if it were mine - I'd start with verying fuel pump timing, verify power to glow plug, then flush fuel lines & check spray of injector.

Thanks for that Pyrthian. Only one point..it doesnīt have a glow plug/heater..or if it does, I havenīt found it yet!!
Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 04-24-2008).]

well, it would be electric - so - look for a single wire going to the head. but - yes - it may not have one - in which case - it will be tough to start.
and, there is always ethyr/starting fluid. kinda rough on the hardware - but - gets the job done.

Make sure you crack the fitting at the injector to get all the air out of the line. Once open, crank the motor until fuel comes out. Close. Then use a LITTLE starting fluid to get it going. A diesel will not start will air in the line. Good luck.

Fred

From the looks of things you have everything labled correctly. Fuel goes from the tank to the filter then to a low pressure transfer pump , usually 10 psi on these small diesles like Lister and Duetz, Then into the injection pump which boosts the pressure to 12-15,000 psi. First run the compression release and crank over engine with upper fuel line loose, the steel line connection at the injector. The smaller rubber tube is a return line. Once you have fuel at this connection tighten fitting an continue to spin over engine with compression release still on. Once you get some white smoke out of the exhaust flip the release and it should start.

[This message has been edited by Fiero STS (edited 04-24-2008).]

Thanks for the brilliant tips!! Just going to clean all the fuel lines, get a new tube from the filter to the pump, and then see what happens!!! Whooo hooo! I am enjoying this...and if it runs, I might just fight to keep it..who knows, if we have to sell our house, we might need it at the old shack in the campos we will be able to afford!!
Thanks, will let you know how it goes...or not, as the case may be!!
Nick

Which pump do you want to replace? The one with the steel line to the injector cannot be replaced with something else. You can put a transfer pump in between the fuel tank and the injection pump. There should be some sort of throttle and fuel shut off on your engine are they in the on position?

I didnīt find a fuel shut-off. The rubber pipe between the filter and the pump had split, so I bridged it with some clear plastic tubing.Icouldnīt see any fuel going through the clear pipe, so I put my finger over the end of the line to the pump, and couldnīt feel any suction there. I am pretty sure it will run once I get it sorted out.It was gerry-rigged by the previous owner,as far as the fuel system goes, and I have taken it all off, back to original.I primed the cylinder with some fuel, whilst I turned the engine over. I released the decompression lever, and white smoke came out. poured some more down the priming hole, and she ran for a few seconds, until the priming fuel ran out. Then it was too dark!! I will take some more pics of the other side, where the throttle system is. I still canīt be sure how the pumpworks: whether it works on crankcase pressure, or off a cam on the crank. And I am still not too sure what the little spring-loaded valve on what appears to be the pump housing is for.
Thanks for your help and interest, Fiero STS. Invaluable!! Many years since I messed about with a stationary diesel engine!!
Nick
PS: I did award you a plus..but you already had one from me

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 04-24-2008).]

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: This is the part of the engine block where the fuel line from the filter goes, and then back up to the injector: Questions are in the photo, if you can help!! Nick

I wonder if the spring loaded hooch-a-magig at the top of the picture is the fuel cutoff for the injection pump to stop the engine onc eit is running

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: This is the part of the engine block where the fuel line from the filter goes, and then back up to the injector: Questions are in the photo, if you can help!! Nick

I think thats your hand primer. Open the vent on the fuel filter and pump the primer handle until you get fuel
coming out the vent. Close the vent while pumping and you should hear fuel returning back to the tank.
Then try to start.

The spring loaded thing is a hand operated, plunger type, priming pump IMO. (coneshark beat me to it) And no, you probably do not have a fuel shut off valve on a monocylinder engine. RayB is correct regarding the priming port, unless it is a very very old diesel engine. Long ago, before aerosol spray starting fluids, liquid ether was used as starting fluid, and you would remove a little thumbscrew similar to the one you have, and pour just a drop or two of ether directly into the cylinder--or combustion cup (if so equipped).
a. Is it electric or hand starter? I think I can see a starter, but not sure.
b. It is obviously a Minsel, but what model?
c. You have a pic of the entire engine? One that shows the whole intake and one showing the governor lever(s)?
d. I would NOT try starting this one on starting fluid until you have the fuel injection system sorted out and working. Starting fluid tends to lock up a mono real easy, as you don't have the centrifugal force/rotating mass of an opposing cylinder to help the engine continue turning.

(see profile=occupation)

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-24-2008).]

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: This is the part of the engine block where the fuel line from the filter goes, and then back up to the injector: Questions are in the photo, if you can help!! Nick

As mentioned that is the primer pump. Make sure all your fuel lines are good and there are no vacuum leaks on the supply hose or connections. The supply pump pulls a vacuum on the fuel system to draw air, if it can't build a vacuum, it can't pump fuel. If you can't build pressure with the primer pump, either you have an air leak or a bad pump.

Well, it is 1:36am, and I am off to bed I will take some more photos tomorrow, and see if the model number is there. I seem to recall it says P 101 on the ID plate.
It has a LOAD of compression, and sounds healthy enough, so I am holding out some hope that it will run..then I can link up the recitifer etc, and make sure the generator is ok..then decide if I am going to sell it or keep it make a great workshop generator for my 3 phase tools and fans! 8000 watts a phase is enough to drive most of my stuff.
Thanks for all your comments...I hope to post a few more photos tomorrow.
Nick

Some more pics:







Nick

Right behind the starter is the governor control. It looks to have a cable attached to it. it also looks to be in the fuel off or idle position. If it was in the high idle position it would be against the adjustment screw. Try moving it to the high idle position then try starting it. also loosen the large rubber connection to the injector pump to see if the transfer pump is supplying any fuel.

On second thought I wouldn't work the hand pump with fuel filter bleed open. Open the vent first and let gravity get the air out of the fuel filter. I used to work on Lombardini 2 and 3 cylinder air cooled. The fuel
tanks where at or below the level of the engine. Lombardinis had diaphragm feed pumps that could be worked manually. You would work the pump with the fuel filter bleed screw open until you got all
the air out the filter system and continued to pump fuel through the system. As you said your system is gravity fed. In any case - get the air out.

here are a couple of pics of the inners of the pump.



The spring-loaded knob actually connects to a slotted arm inside the body of the motor, which engages with the bar that sits in the slot on top of the bit I have pulled out of its housing. When the springloaded knob on top of the pump body is pulled up,it releases an arm inside, allowing it to pull the knob on the bar to one side.I donīt know what that does. The roller at the end of the pump iss a roller bearing , and when I look inside the body, I can see the cam that drives it.
I have cleaned the ouside up a bit( ).but the inside mechanisms are perfect. Not a scrap of rust, or gelled oil or fuel. I need a banjo joint to reconnect the small fuel tank to the filter, and it is strange size, so I must find one in a store somewhere. I also have to replace the fuel pipe between the filter and the pump.When I opened the filter, it was spotless, and the fuel, although maybe 10 years old, was clear as a bell!! I drained the whole lot, and will wash it all out with fresh diesel fuel, to ensure it is totally free of water and debris.
The engine is 746 cc single cylinder, and produces 21 HP at 3000 rpm!! It is beautifully made, and I guess a collector of stationary engines would be more than interested in it eBay, maybe?
Nick

This link will take you to some forums where people who work with small deisels share ideas. Ruggerini engines seem to be well known there, so maybe someone there has experience with one of these engines and knows exactly what you need!http://www.peace65.freeserv.../Pictures/diesel.htm

Best of luck to you, Nick.
If the generator doesn't work once you get the engine started, I have a suggestion for the "Lambo Diesel" engine.
Put it in a motorcycle:

Diesel powered Royal Enfield Bullet

Its not your particular engine, but here's a Ruggerini powered '81Honda bike:


Fore more on the Honda, scroll down to "Dave Part Two"

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 04-26-2008).]

Fascinating links, Neptune!! I saw the diesel bike here before..did you post the original? My engine is much too tall to fit in a bike...and weighs around 200lbs
Wouldnīt like to try to hold THAT upright in a bike frame!! I want it to run, more than anything..and for me to have got it running!!
Now..off to that site you linked to!!
Thanks again
Nick

OK, I am trying to puzzle out this spring-loaded knob!! As you can see in the photo:


there is a sliding bar with a knob on it. The bar has 'stop' stamped on it on one side of the knob.When I look into the body of the pump in the crankcase, there is an arm, which has a recess, which engages with the knob on the sliding bar. The arm inside is motivated by a spring, to move the sliding bar across and away from the centre, meaning it moves it in an opposite direction to the 'stop' stamped on the bar. If I centralise the arm, the knob would engage with it, the spring-loaded knob on the top of the pump body holding it there. when I pull up the spring-loaded knob, the arm activates the sliding bar, sliding the bar with the knob on to the opposite of 'stop'. Confused yet??ŋŋ??ŋŋ!! he!! me too!!. I can see it is a piston in a bore, just like a clutch slave cylinder. The piston is springloaded, and the roller in the end enables the cam lobe to push the cylinder into the bore, and so force the fuel out into the pipe to the injector. I just canīt work out what that other sliding bar is for? It must lock the piston in the bore of the pump in the fully in positon, which would cause it to stop pumping, and the engine to stop running.But why? I thought the compression release valve on the cylinder head did that, as well as making it easier to turn the engine over when starting? And another strange thing... the outlet is through a non-return valve, obviously, to stop the fuel being sucked back into the pump from the fuel line. But then, I would have thought the inlet line would have the opposite,to stop the pump piston just pushing the fuel it has just sucked in, back out through the feed tube.Oh, just had a thought about that..maybe the inlet port is further back, so the piston closes it off when it goes past the orifice... ..thatis quite possible, because the piston travel is less than half an inch, and it doesnīt have to pump a lot of fuel into the injector every cycle..Wish I could find a manual for this thing..Google didnīt turn anything up, so I guess it is too old to be online..
crappy MS Paint diagram

Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 04-28-2008).]

Ok now I see what you have. You have the high pressure injector in your hand. The roller rides on a cam and creates the pumping action. one blast per every two revolutions. The thing with the knob is the rack it controls how much fuel is injected. When at the stop position no fuel is injected when at the oposite end the max can be injected. So to start you need this at max. I am sure that the knob is hooked up somehow to a governor of sorts.

[This message has been edited by Fiero STS (edited 04-28-2008).]

You are a mine of info and help!! Thanks!! I will be following it up, somehow..maybe take the cover off..hope there are no springs and things to fly away
Nick

look on the side of your engine with the starter. Do you see the lever with the cable? try moving that and look at the part that engages the knob on the injector pump. It should move then you will know which way is fuel on. the spring loaded knob is probably for shutting it off.

Straight to the filter. There is nothing else between the tank and the filter, and the filter and the injector pump. The fuel is simply gravity-fed. I managed to get her running by squirting fuel into the priming port (it holds quite a lot, enough to run for maybe 10 seconds). Whilst it was running, I pulled that springloaded knob, but it didnīt seem to do anything. So, I must investigate further as to where that internal arm goes to, and what operates it. There is NO fuel coming out when I disconnect the pipe from the injector. I also adjusted the throttle cable to half-open.
Nick
PS...as the injector has no electrical or mechanical connections, as far as I can see, I am assuming it just creates a spray pattern into the cylinder, and the timing of the spray is controlled by the cam that drives the pump..there is a timing mark on the flywheel, as you can see in one of the photos:



Another strange thing I noticed..the rubber fuel line between the filter and the injector pump appears to have been cut, rather than perished. I am wondering if that was done to render it inoperable, when the Mains electricity to the house was connected..guessing here

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 04-28-2008).]

Nick,
So if you hook fuel up to the rubber hose into the injector and feed it by gravity do you get any fuel out of the steel line?

This is a fairly simple fuel system, all mechanical. So if you feed the injector pump directly, with the lever on, you should get fuel out. If you are not on the injection cycle you should still get fuel to flow out by gravity. If you don't there is probably a cloged passage somewhere in the injector. Try soaking it in a pail of diesel fuel or Marval mystery oil. Work the plunger while it is submerged. this should bleed the pump and free up any sticking parts.

Had to go to Tarragona with the Fiero today..showed it to somebody who is interested in buying it, so I didnīt have any time today, really. But, I did take the pump back out, and moved the throttle pivot..and it made the internal arm move too! So, I guess that you are perfectly correct in your assessment...well done!! Now all I have to do is to prime the pump, all the way up to the injector, and see what happens!! Might just take off the airfilter, and spray some diesel engine easy-start in..
Hehehe!! When she ran for a few seconds, she jumped around all over the place!! The compression is excellent!! So I must bolt it all back onto the sled before I have a disaster!! And the exhaust ...no silencer, so she sounds like a flippin' cannon on automatic!! Actually, not having an exhaust silencer on might not help to start her..another thing to consider.
Thanks, once again, FieroSTS for your help!! Hope I can return the favour one day!!
Nick

a little further info for ya if you dont know,

Inside the injection pump there is a small piston with an angled cut around it, as that knob is turned it rotates the piston which opens up a port that relieves the pressure above the piston and stops injection.

the pressure produced by the piston shoves fuel through to an injection nozzle, in this nozzle is a spring loaded check valve that opens at a couple thousand psi, fuel is forced though extremely small holes and combustion starts,

at some point the above passage is opened in the injection pump, instantly dropping pressure in the nozzle and snapping the nozzle shut.

Port-Helix fuel Injection,

It was one of Robby Bosch's most significant inventions and allowed the diesel engine to be as big as it is today.

*note* I dont know what the chances are that it could happen (or if it can even happen on non turbo) but if that knob gets stuck in a high or full fuel position than the engine can "run-away" or basically rev higher and higher until something gives...

as a precaution I would have some way to stop the engine from getting air (Plywood ect..)

[This message has been edited by 4-mulaGT (edited 04-30-2008).]

Which could account for the rubber fuel feed to the pump having been cut?? Hmmm..thanks very much, that is very interesting!!
Nick

She runs!!! Hehehe!! Thanks to all, especially FieroSTS!!



Nick
Zwerver was NOT impressed, as you can see!! Hahahah!! Hi-tailed it into the garage!! The engine was free-standing, so I didnīt let her run for long, incase she fell of the block of wood she was standing on
Now to sell her, and the generator/alternator
Thanks again everyone!!
Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 05-02-2008).]

Glad to see you cot it running. Sound pretty good. Now you need to hook it up and see if the generator will put out !!

I donīt know a lot about how the alternator works. I know there is a dc voltage input which is called the exciter? There is a two core cable which runs into the alternator, and attaches to two carbon brushes which make contact with the commutator copper rings. The commutator revolves, and sets up a DC current in the field winding, which is carried to a rectifier which changes the current to AC..What I want to understand is this: is the voltage into the exciter 12 volts? I assume it feeds from the battery that also starts the engine..how am I doing so far?
Nick

Cant help you much on the generator side. But from what I know you are on the right track.

Just found a plate under a whole load of blue paint on the alternator. It is a 7KVA generator.Produces 18.7 amps at 1500 rpm, but it is set to run at 3000 rpm.There is another stamp which says 3/220/120 volts.
The exciter curent is 110 volts..where would I get that from?
The output box has three cut wires coming out, so I guess they are the three phases? Or is it two phases and a negative? Hmmmm..HELP!

Nick