quote Originally posted by Mike Marden: And you are the one who determines who is and who is not human? Is your name GOD?

If you have to determine if a child molester/killer is human.
Looks like we have found out what the majority of the problem is.
People who think like you.

in my view, the common tendency to call an evil person "not human" is a cop-out, and fails to take into account the very real nature of real people, which is sometimes evil. it makes the assumption of moral superiority just a little bit easier, like you don't even have to work for it... it also relieves somewhat the real responsibility of a person who commits evil acts. if they're "not human", then they have no soul, no agency, no will, right?

it's the easy way out, and reduces both good and evil to a kind of ethical mush.

(edit: it also makes things more emotionally manageable, i think. what was really frightening about BTK is that he was all too human. take that away, and he becomes something we don't have to figure out. just another bogeyman.)

the fact is that humans - real humans, not cartoon villains - regularly do appalling things. it doesn't make them any less human, and in fact it rather confirms it... no other creature on earth seems to be capable of such willful cruelty. we have to take responsibility for that as humans and deal with it.

so deal with it. evil people are not bacteria. they're not algae. those are figures of speech... great for table pounding, but useless for talking about actual society, the kinds of people that inhabit it, and the kinds of choices that those people make.

i do not advocate the death penalty for non-humans. i advocate it for actual humans, who do willful evil.

[This message has been edited by Euterpe (edited 02-11-2007).]

i think for a lot or people its easier to say is a black/white issue. if we knew how many people were on the "edge" so to speak, nobody would leave their house.

i always like the bell curve analogy. like 5% of people are completely evil, 10% sort of evil, 70% in the middle, 10% very good and 5% completely good. that's my yeng yang theory anyhow.

quote Originally posted by Euterpe: in my view, the common tendency to call an evil person "not human" is a cop-out, and fails to take into account the very real nature of real people, which is sometimes evil. it makes the assumption of moral superiority just a little bit easier, like you don't even have to work for it... it also relieves somewhat the real responsibility of a person who commits evil acts. if they're "not human", then they have no soul, no agency, no will, right? it's the easy way out, and reduces both good and evil to a kind of ethical mush. (edit: it also makes things more emotionally manageable, i think. what was really frightening about BTK is that he was all too human. take that away, and he becomes something we don't have to figure out. just another bogeyman.) the fact is that humans - real humans, not cartoon villains - regularly do appalling things. it doesn't make them any less human, and in fact it rather confirms it... no other creature on earth seems to be capable of such willful cruelty. we have to take responsibility for that as humans and deal with it. so deal with it. evil people are not bacteria. they're not algae. those are figures of speech... great for table pounding, but useless for talking about actual society, the kinds of people that inhabit it, and the kinds of choices that those people make. i do not advocate the death penalty for non-humans. i advocate it for actual humans, who do willful evil.

Excellent Argument!! We have no choice but to deal with it.

We ALL are just civilized cavemen after all

My point is if your do a certain evil, you will lose those human rights. Therfore get rid of the non-humans in a quick and cheap manner.
No appeals, no 3 hots and a cot, etc.

After looking at one of my friends W2's from his CO job , yeah I want most of these waste of $$$$ GONE.

quote Originally posted by ray b: those who steal thru positions of power those who cause others to die based on lies

i think the death penalty is out of proportion in these cases.

i'd like to see this sort go to jail. not "country club" jail, but in with the general population of non-violent crimes, druggies, shoplifters, drunk drivers. i think this is one case where deterrence might work, since they have ample time to consider their actions while planning their crimes. yeah, i know, plenty of laws on the books already. if only prosecution and conviction were a little swifter and more certain.