I'm not starting any flame wars here, I'm just asking a question! If you can't post a mature, informative reply then please don't post anything.

Anyway... I've tried to ask questions on there before, tried to sell some parts once, and I basically got flamed for daring to post anything because I was a know-nothing "noob". Now I tried to make the same post on RFT as I did here regarding making fiberglass and carbon fiber parts. Over here, I get a few replies. Over there, it gets moved immediately to the area "where all the gay threads are moved", which is where all of the spam and **** ads go, and people start sending me adolescent flame-mail.

What is this Hatfield-McCoy BS, and what's their problem with me almost every time I try to post? I honestly don't get it, because I've never done anything to anyone. Poor me *turns up the whiny emo music and gets out the dull razors*

some folks are going to get hot over this.
it's hard to generalize about the members there, as they are a diverse lot. best to judge from your own experience.

RFT was created by former malcontents from PFF, many of whom were ejected from here for rudeness. they were generally dissatisfied with the way PFF was run, so called their board "Pennockssucks", ironically claiming that demonstrated their "independence" from PFF. all it really demonstrated was how derivative the board was, and the general level of maturity.

this is not to say there aren't some good people there with good skills and ideas. but RFT exudes an inflated sense of self worth and condescension, and much of the board (last time i looked) is complaining about PFF.

in fact, there's probably a thread over there about this thread right now. i'm not going to look, as there's little of interest there for me.

I thought rft was just a bunch of dumbass banned members that where butt hurt from being banned here. and spent a good six months in the rft-vs-the world section batteling it out with them.

Then i started going to other sections and after a while discoverd there is some pretty smart people over there, but there is also a few dumbass's. "just like here or any other forum"

I relized over there most dumb posts and threads are started by one dude. and no one on any forum likes him. his name is aaron. he made a post making fun of cliff when he had a heart attack. every other forum would have banned him by now "and have, such as this place. but rft has a no ban policey so they just made a section where they post all the dumb posts he makes

a few people like aaron and tinton have claimed to been banned from there. but it was a glitch or mess up. from the forum software that banned there ip. and both could easily change there ip. or send a email to the forum admin so he could unban it.
I have my own forum where an ip ban has happend on accident as well. and its run with the same software as theres.

i didn't see or notice your posts there, so i dunno if one of the ussual dickheads was being an ass to you. or if you did somthing to bring it on yourself.

the forum is just like any other forum including this one out there. there is some good people on it. there is some bad people on it. and there is some very knologable people on it.

and i know for a fact there is a person or two on it that are still pissed about being banned from here.

I think there forum would be taken more seriously if they droped the rft vs the world section. but at the same time i have seen some links to some pretty funny and dumb stuff in that section as well.

i know the forum started out as a antipennocks site, and was a joke. but since then, it has developed into the second biggist fiero forum out there. "there are not many" next to this one.

don't give up on it tho just because of a couple little bad experinces. bad experinces will happend on every forum you join eventaully. when you have a few thousand people together on the internet not everyone is going to agree with what everyone else says. as for your thread being moved. I won't say it can't or hasn't happend. but I have yet to see bad moderationg over there.

and any forum u go on moderation is never perfect. even here with the ratings system it isn't perfect.

but if u want to get the most out of your fiero you really should be on both forums. as there is a wealth of information on each of them.

quote Originally posted by 84fierotrevor: ...I think there forum would be taken more seriously if they droped the rft vs the world section...

I agree completely. I have made that suggestion several times.
I also asked them (one person in particular) not to bag on people here in their Tech section, as at least that section is supposed to be off limits for that sort of thing.
Of course, my request was offhandedly dismissed, so... whatever.
I'm sure I wouldn't be missed if I didn't post any more over there. Not like I do a great deal, anyway.

Well, the forum's original reason for existance was to complain and make fun of this forum. They've attempted to expand it to be a more legitimate forum with useful info, and to be fair there are some knowledgable people over there. Many of the knowledgable people over there also post here, so you decide if they have anything to offer. Their main activity seems to be talking smack about things they read on here. For a forum that continuously complains about how lame this forum is, they sure do spend a lot of time here. Ban their IP and they change it so they can keep reading. Most of them wouldn't know what to do if they suddenly didn't have access to PFF anymore. Sure, they'd rant and rave for a few days, and then they'd have to go find something else to make fun of.

They complain about the mob mentality here, or the so-called "green bar brigade" where if you say the wrong thing, we'll band to gether to ban you. But the truth of the matter is, as you've already found out, if you're not in their clique, all you can expect from them is ridicule and trash talk.

There are some seemingly very smart "Fiero Folks" over there, but being Fiero smart does not make their forum worth visiting when they talk so much smack. Life is too short to deal with "internet bravery" (as I call it). I'd bet a dollar to a donut that some of the smack talk, disresectful behavior and name calling would not happen in a face to face environment... At least not for a very long time.

I can find all of the info I need on this forum and it is a more peaceful place.

its RFT vs PFF. PFF cares not about RFT.
RFT has no patience for "general rules" and all claims will be challenged.
they have little patience for "dream builders" who talk about all the stuff they are gonna do. only want to hear about what is being done. or what has been done.
want to rattle them up? make thread about how you like Cali Kids car - or want to do a V8 using a Archie kit. nothing lights these guys up like mentioning these 2.

but, if you need Real Fiero Tech - RFT is where you will find it. BS is quickly found & called out. in the PFF tech, you will find people who post 1/2 answers & misleading stuff & just "stuff they heard". this will not fly at RFT.

PFF is like a house, RFT is like the house's septic tank. Periodically, you have to flush the toilet. The fecal matter ends up in the septic tank. We give as much regard to the (people) that hang out at RFT as we do the fecal matter we flush. Like a septic tank, RFT might be unpleasant, but as it turns out, it appears to be necessary. Where else would we put all the fecal matter?

No, it's more like...

PFF is the retirement home

RFT is the frat house

Quite literally too, you can tell by the average age of the forum members. IIRC RFT is 20-something, PFF is 40-something. There are proportional differences. Dropping the "f-bomb" in a retirement home will get you kicked out. Doing the same in a frat house, nobody batts an eye. They're different ends of the fiero spectrum. And then there are others somewhere in the middle, or maybe off to the side, like fierodotcom.com, and I think fieronews has a forum or something...

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 01-02-2007).]

quote Originally posted by fierobear: PFF is like a house, RFT is like the house's septic tank. Periodically, you have to flush the toilet. The fecal matter ends up in the septic tank. We give as much regard to the (people) that hang out at RFT as we do the fecal matter we flush. Like a septic tank, RFT might be unpleasant, but as it turns out, it appears to be necessary. Where else would we put all the fecal matter?

So, what are you trying to say?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: PFF is like a house, RFT is like the house's septic tank. Periodically, you have to flush the toilet. The fecal matter ends up in the septic tank. We give as much regard to the (people) that hang out at RFT as we do the fecal matter we flush. Like a septic tank, RFT might be unpleasant, but as it turns out, it appears to be necessary. Where else would we put all the fecal matter?

I would go more with RFT is like the evil lab. there are many great ideas reasearched, tested & documented. yes, there is much hoopla & junk on the sides - but the tech section is tops.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: No, it's more like... PFF is the retirement home RFT is the frat house Quite literally too, you can tell by the average age of the forum members. IIRC RFT is 20-something, PFF is 40-something.

Ryan is right. IIRC, I was fecal matter when I was 20 something. Actually, it may have lasted into my 30's. I still smell like $hit.
Ryan, what is the average of 14,18, and 24? Heck, 14,18,24, and 30. Now, what is the average of 14,18,24,30,32,36, 38,19,27,31,33,34,35,16,23...ehhh...you get the point.
I would not say PFF is like a retirement home. I can say a lot of stupid $hit goes on in some frat houses. Any frat house is not like every frat house.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Well, the forum's original reason for existance was to complain and make fun of.....

Sounds like a lot of frat houses. The "we are a frat house too" frat houses.
Were I to ask for advice, I would not ask the "young, dumb, and full of come" bunch. I would respect my elders.
Maybe why RFT gravitates here? Why does a frat house need a retirement home ?
So really, what did your post add ?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: They've attempted to expand it to be a more legitimate forum.....

...but they never will be able to as long as they act like a frat house.

Thanks, I guess I got what I needed from this thread so I'll be abandoning it (poor li'l guy...) I suppose I'll just accept that many of them (including moderators apparently) will be jackasses, sometimes without a good reason. If anyone wants to continue discussing it, that's fine, but don't blame me for any resulting flame wars.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I would go more with RFT is like the evil lab. there are many great ideas reasearched, tested & documented. yes, there is much hoopla & junk on the sides - but the tech section is tops.

Most of the people there act like they know everything and if you challenge them, they go off. It's not worth sifting through the mountains of bullshiat to get to the few nuggets of knowledge they have there.

The California Kid argument was a great example of this. Shaun asked me if I believed Tom's claim his car puts out 400 HP. I replied that I didn't know. He wouldn't let it go at that, and then said that he KNEW, not suspected, but KNEW Tom's car didn't put out that much power. So, I asked him for his proof and none was ever provided. All he did was talk trash.

I wasn't making a claim of fact, Shaun was, but Shaun was unable to back up his claims. Granted, Tom would have to provide Shaun copies of his dyno results to have this proof, which is about as likely as the sun setting in the East tonight. So, Shaun had no proof, but still ranted and raved and said he did.

They only call out the people they don't like, and if you're not part of their "in" crowd no amount of proof will be enough.

FieroGT42, RFT is a no "bull" forum and apparently someone believed your post over there was, so it was moved to another section as spam.
In case you missed Howard's reply to you over there.

quote Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:08 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- this was moved here TWICE, by me. We have two sections here to post items for sale. Non-tech is not one of them. As far as I am concerned this is spam. We also have been banning IPs that have a pattern of posting spam.

All you had to ask was if anyone would be interested in having some Fiero parts made out of carbon fiber and if so which ones. It also would have helped if you posted in the correct section.
If you get offended easily I would definitely reccomend that you don't post over there. They will get rough with you pretty quickly as you found out.
Your first post over there was to complain about not getting enough responce over here.

quote Howdy howdy howdy. I really should get around to reading RFT more often. I got 1 reply on Old Europe; hopefully somebody here will be interested

I guess you really aren't happy with either place.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 01-02-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Most of the people there act like they know everything and if you challenge them, they go off. It's not worth sifting through the mountains of bullshiat to get to the few nuggets of knowledge they have there.

yeah - I can understand that. but, I really love the innovative thinking that goes on.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: The California Kid argument was a great example of this. Shaun asked me if I believed Tom's claim his car puts out 400 HP. I replied that I didn't know. He wouldn't let it go at that, and then said that he KNEW, not suspected, but KNEW Tom's car didn't put out that much power. So, I asked him for his proof and none was ever provided. All he did was talk trash. I wasn't making a claim of fact, Shaun was, but Shaun was unable to back up his claims. Granted, Tom would have to provide Shaun copies of his dyno results to have this proof, which is about as likely as the sun setting in the East tonight. So, Shaun had no proof, but still ranted and raved and said he did. They only call out the people they don't like, and if you're not part of their "in" crowd no amount of proof will be enough.

yes, like my first post on this thread - mention Cali Kid or Archie - and they all go crazy.
classic lines from "The Big Lebowski": "what? am I wrong? AM I WRONG?" "no - your just an ashole"

One could say that asking for proof of Cali Kids horsepower claims is taboo on this forum and it seems to get many banned.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: One could say that asking for proof of Cali Kids horsepower claims is taboo on this forum and it seems to get many banned.

and, one could also say CaliKid did not claim this HP - the people who made the car did.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Were I to ask for advice ... I would respect my elders.

Here's the difference in philosophies in PFF vs RFT-

PFF:
Guy 1: "I've got a small block 350 with a carb and make 500hp with pump gas"
Guy 2: "Sweet."

RFT:
Guy 1: "I've got a small block 350 with a carb and make 500hp with pump gas"
Guy 2: "Bull. Got a dyno graph?"
Guy 1: "I don't have to prove anything to you. I know what 500hp feels like, and I have 500hp."
Guy 2: "Right. What about a quarter mile time?"
Guy 1: "Yeah right, my tranny would blow up"
.
.
.

The good thing about RFT is they're "open" to other engines that aren't SBC's. Does anyone remember what happened to the ECOTEC thread here? It turned into a flame war! V8 vs Ecotec! What is that about? How can someone's thread about a 4 cylinder turn into a flame war? I really don't understand...

Or even worse, when Archie said, and I quote, "Typically the turbo or SCharged 4's make their numbers at high RPM's & that's fine if you drive at 160 mph all the time. But us Hot Rodders want to from 0 to 100 as fast as possible & that takes a V-8." What an ignorant statement. There are more 4-bangers than I can count that would run circles around my V8. Then the site admin of a popular GM V6 site, 60degreev6.com, called Archie out on that ignorant statement. And guess what? He was banned.

Pardon my french, but that pissed me off. He got banned because he dared to question somebody. That's exactly why I hate the ratings system - it's a popularity contest, and anybody who dares question someone of a higher popularity is getting the boot. Right or wrong.

"Typically the turbo or SCharged 4's make their numbers at high RPM's & that's fine if you drive at 160 mph all the time. But us Hot Rodders want to from 0 to 100 as fast as possible & that takes a V-8."

People arguing whether this statement is accurate, ignorant, or whatever is stupid. It's called hyperbole. Look it up.
But instead, people saw an opportunity to argue and ridicule. That's why they were banned.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: "Typically the turbo or SCharged 4's make their numbers at high RPM's & that's fine if you drive at 160 mph all the time. But us Hot Rodders want to from 0 to 100 as fast as possible & that takes a V-8." People arguing whether this statement is accurate, ignorant, or whatever is stupid. It's called hyperbole. Look it up. But instead, people saw an opportunity to argue and ridicule. That's why they were banned.

The 160mph part - hyperbole.

The "accelerate as fast as possible takes a V8" - his true opinion. Thinking a I4 or V6 is "just as good" wouldn't sell the kits.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: The 160mph part - hyperbole. The "accelerate as fast as possible takes a V8" - his true opinion. Thinking a I4 or V6 is "just as good" wouldn't sell the kits.

And do you agree that "opinion" is not scientific fact? If your opinion is your favorite color is blue, can you show me factual proof that blue is a better color than red?

Hyperbole. Opinion. You can agree or disagree, but trying to argue accuracy is silly.

If I say a V8 is the "best" engine, and someone else says the 3800SC is the "best" engine - are you going to show me factual data that proves one person is right and the other is wrong? It's preference. Opinion.

But all people saw was an excuse to argue.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: And do you agree that "opinion" is not scientific fact? If your opinion is your favorite color is blue, can you show me factual proof that blue is a better color than red? Hyperbole. Opinion. You can agree or disagree, but trying to argue accuracy is silly. If I say a V8 is the "best" engine, and someone else says the 3800SC is the "best" engine - are you going to show me factual data that proves one person is right and the other is wrong? It's preference. Opinion. But all people saw was an excuse to argue.

Hey, when are you gonna change ur grinch icon, it isnt even christmas anymore!

quote Originally posted by Formula88: If I say a V8 is the "best" engine, and someone else says the 3800SC is the "best" engine - are you going to show me factual data that proves one person is right and the other is wrong?

He didn't say that. He said, a V8 is faster than everything else from 0-100 (period):

"Hot Rodders want to [go] from 0 to 100 as fast as possible & that takes a V-8"

Which is wrong, false, incorrect.... however you want to put it. I can give you plenty of factual data showing that statement is wrong.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 01-02-2007).]

Real men want a V8.

I'm with Ronnie.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: "Hot Rodders want to [go] from 0 to 100 as fast as possible & that takes a V-8" I can give you plenty of factual data showing that statement is wrong.

It's not how fast you get there, it's how good you sound while doing it.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-02-2007).]

If you really want to get the RFT bunch wound up, just talk about how cool your V-8 sounds.

When things go wrong,
don't follow them. Joe

quote Originally posted by Patrick: It's not how fast you get there, it's how good you sound while doing it.

Well then the 3.4 DOHC wins hands down.

they couldn't even stay on topic... lol... now i know we vere sometimes but wow.
http://realfierotech.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5423
edit: started to read a little more there... please remind me never to go back... my IQ just dropped 8 points!

[This message has been edited by Finally_Mine_86_GT (edited 01-02-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Real men want a V8. I'm with Ronnie. It's not how fast you get there, it's how good you sound while doing it.

thats the offical ricer quote. except replace good, with loud.

i will take the speed over the sound any day.

But can an Ecotec installed in a Lexus auto park faster than a V8

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: But can an Ecotec installed in a Lexus auto park faster than a V8

Depends... does it have a carb?

I think there is a possibilty that the whole problem could have been solved amicably, if it had been possible to discuss it all in a grown-up fashion. I personally feel that PFF is a Forum more suitable for the Owner who wants to keep his car running at a reasonably normal speed, consistently, and to be able to keep it in that sort of condition him/herself.This would not limit things to
basic and simple home mechanics, but could embrace mild tuning, and bodywork mods etc..and personal ideas about designing and fabricating improvements , such as Bubbajoexxx and FieRo, and Fierofan1, to name just a couple of the many competent, and often brilliant Members here on PFF. It would have been easy to adapt the logo of RFT to 'Race Fiero Tuning', which appears to be the aim of many folk over there..to go faster than the average.The two could then have lived side by side, in relative harmony Perhaps they still could. I would love to see the sort of Camaraderie that could exist, coming true. Share each others' skill and knowledge.Be able to refer New Members in EITHER Forum to the other, if it would help them.It COULD happen, if everybody who does so, in either Forum, would just stop running each other down, and extend a friendly hand to each other. No harm in ribbing each other, and even having special 'Race days' at the track, between RFT and PFF. How about a Field Day, to show off each of the Members of each Forum's new ideas..then it could be really interesting for all.All it would take would be commonsense, and bit of maturity. Just imagine being able to post in either or BOTH Forums, and not have a stigma attached? Just a while ago, I was sent a PM from a Member here, pointing out that I was No.1 in the 'Drama Queen' thread over there.It made me laugh!! Maybe there is a certain amount of truth in it!! No problem here!! If they got a laugh out of it, good for them..I would rather they laughed, than cried!! (I guess I drive a few here AND there to tears sometimes, but there you go!!)
So, Geoffery, Sean (Mach 10), John, and all the others who know both Forums..how about it? I wish I was in the States..I would love to liase with both sides to bring it about...but I am not, so I guess the relationship between the two will just continue to meander along the same unfortunate path. What a wasted opportunity.
Nick
Edit to add: It would be a bit stupid to have just one football team, with nobody to play against, wouldn't it? One versus another is always more interesting..as long as the game is played in the right spirit

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 01-02-2007).]

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: I think there is a possibilty that the whole problem could have been solved amicably, if it had been possible to discuss it all in a grown-up fashion. I personally feel that PFF is a Forum more suitable for the Owner who wants to keep his car running at a reasonably normal speed, consistently, and to be able to keep it in that sort of condition him/herself.This would not limit things to basic and simple home mechanics, but could embrace mild tuning, and bodywork mods etc..and personal ideas about designing and fabricating improvements , such as Bubbajoexxx and FieRo, and Fierofan1, to name just a couple of the many competent, and often brilliant Members here on PFF. It would have been easy to adapt the logo of RFT to 'Race Fiero Tuning', which appears to be the aim of many folk over there..to go faster than the average.The two could then have lived side by side, in relative harmony Perhaps they still could. I would love to see the sort of Camaraderie that could exist, coming true. Share each others' skill and knowledge.Be able to refer New Members in EITHER Forum to the other, if it would help them.It COULD happen, if everybody who does so, in either Forum, would just stop running each other down, and extend a friendly hand to each other. No harm in ribbing each other, and even having special 'Race days' at the track, between RFT and PFF. How about a Field Day, to show off each of the Members of each Forum's new ideas..then it could be really interesting for all.All it would take would be commonsense, and bit of maturity. Just imagine being able to post in either or BOTH Forums, and not have a stigma attached? Just a while ago, I was sent a PM from a Member here, pointing out that I was No.1 in the 'Drama Queen' thread over there.It made me laugh!! Maybe there is a certain amount of truth in it!! No problem here!! If they got a laugh out of it, good for them..I would rather they laughed, than cried!! (I guess I drive a few here AND there to tears sometimes, but there you go!!) So, Geoffery, Sean (Mach 10), John, and all the others who know both Forums..how about it? I wish I was in the States..I would love to liase with both sides to bring it about...but I am not, so I guess the relationship between the two will just continue to meander along the same unfortunate path. What a wasted opportunity. Nick

I visit both and have no isses.

its a good idea. but its never going to happend. there are people on each forum that don't want that.
Take Tinton for example. He had an issue with stimpy and shuan. now in every thread about RFT that comes up here he uses it as an opertunity to trash rft calling it the spetic forum and ect. ect.

I have like 50 PM's arguing with shuan and stuff i disagree with him on. and I also have like 50 thread in rft vs the world where i argue and disagree with alot of other people. but I don't let it keep me from enjoying the good stuff on the forum !


some people on rft like it for all the bad things they DONT like on pennocks. and alot of people remain on pennocks for all the bad THINGS they don't like about real fiero tech. neather forum is perfect. you just have to choose what you dont like the most. and stick with the forum that doesn't have the things that bother you as much. Or you can join bo and deal with each forums problems and enjoy them both

[This message has been edited by 84fierotrevor (edited 01-02-2007).]

Just visited RFT for the first time, hmmmmmm.

Very interesting, I guess. Prefer PFF

Clicking links back to PFF from there don't work.

[This message has been edited by tutnkmn (edited 01-02-2007).]

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Depends... does it have a carb?

LOL Depends on how much it cost to install and if I could do it

I visited RFT a couple of times, in fact was solicited by someone to join because it was such a great forum. But, I can not get over the rudeness and language. Its like hanging out in a seedy bar or back alley.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Well then the 3.4 DOHC wins hands down.

You're kidding, right?

That sounds more like a Kawasaki motorcycle than a high-performance car. Seriously.