Associated Press | November 09, 2006 WASHINGTON - Activist Cindy Sheehan was arrested Wednesday as she led about 50 protesters to a White House gate Wednesday to deliver anti-war petitions she said were signed by 80,000 Americans.
The Berkeley, Calif., woman, whose son was killed in Iraq more than two years ago, was arrested along with three other women on the sidewalk outside the White House gate, said Lt. Scott Fear, a U.S. Park Police spokesman. They were charged with interfering with a government function after they blocked the gate and ignored orders to move, he said.
Before she was arrested, she joined the protesters in hailing the outcome of Tuesday's elections and chanting "Stop the War" outside the gate.
"It was taking too long for them to decide whether to accept them or not, so we just delivered them," said Sheehan, who waited about 15 minutes with other protesters before tossing the petitions over the fence.
The petitions opposed use of military force to resolve the dispute over Iran's nuclear program.
Sheehan, 49, and other grieving families met with Bush about two months after her son died, before reports of faulty prewar intelligence surfaced and caused her to speak out. She has tried repeatedly to speak with the president again, including a 26-day vigil last year outside Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas.
Wednesday's protest came as Republicans lost control of the House and the White House announced the resignation of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
"He's being offered as a sacrificial lamb," Sheehan said.
You're free if.. you have an ID You're free to drive if.. you have a DL You're free to drink if.. you are 21 You're free to own a gun if.. you pass the requirements You're free to live a good life if.. you have the money to pay for health.. insurances..etc. You're free to protest if.. you fill out the forms and stay within the assigned free speech zone IF it is approved. You're free if.. You're free if.. You're free if.. You're free if.. You're free if.. You're free if.. You're free if.. You're free if.. You're free if.. You're free if.. You're free if.. You're free if.. You're free if..
As a free man living in a free country.... May I ask... What am I free to do IN THIS "FREE" COUNTRY?
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07:55 PM
cliffw Member
Posts: 35918 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Actually, an sick thought came to my mind with her.....
A few months ago she purchased land new Bush's ranch so that she could protest him easier. I think that Bush or Rummy or Chenney ought to wait for a house right next to her house in California to go up for sale and then buy it for a vacation home. Why should she have all the fun of trying to make their lives miserable.
You are free to speak you mind....and yes in many many nations you are not free to do that.
Story. I have a friend who is chinese and her parents came here to visit. Where do you think was the first place they wanted to go? They wanted to go to the library. Why? Because in China many books and readings are outlawed, just dont exist. They wanted to learn abou the history of China.
You have many great freedoms. You are just ignorant of them.
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10:58 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
What does it say about the lack of freedom in this country when a whack job and 50 followers can't stand in the middle of the road and block access to the nation's house of government?
Dammit, if I can't stop traffic and make people pay attention to ME whenever and wherever I want, then I'm just not free. PAY ATTENTION TO ME, DAMMIT!!!
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11:08 PM
Nov 18th, 2006
Uaana Member
Posts: 6570 From: Robbinsdale MN US Registered: Dec 1999
Bill, please give me your SS #, I'll try and make this easy. HomeLand Security as deemed you as a subversive.
Please pass over all fiero related items and vehicles. Please do not resist, I have desire to anally gang rape smurfette again If you resist we can give smurfette a rest and anally gangrape you.. but we wont enjoy it as much..
Save your self, and join the HSS today (Homeland Security Service) and you can crush idiots full of white guilt!!
)
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02:48 AM
Uaana Member
Posts: 6570 From: Robbinsdale MN US Registered: Dec 1999
More than you are free to do in ANY other country on Earth. But never having left our shores for so much as a minute let alone years you wouldn't know that to be able to appreciate what you REALLY have here.
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10:50 AM
NEPTUNE Member
Posts: 10199 From: Ticlaw FL, and some other places. Registered: Aug 2001
More than you are free to do in ANY other country on Earth. But never having left our shores for so much as a minute let alone years you wouldn't know that to be able to appreciate what you REALLY have here.
I'll have to see how we stand up 15 years after this report... but it is easily argued that your wrong.
We have the highest percentage of our population in prison out of ANY country in the world. That's just sad. Something is fundamentally wrong somewhere...
Going to see if I can find any more recent comparisons.
A comparison of the US vs. Germany... interesting. I've lived in both and didn't see any problems resulting from their teens having much more freedom than ours. http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/us-d.html
Originally posted by Scott-Wa: We have the highest percentage of our population in prison out of ANY country in the world. That's just sad. Something is fundamentally wrong somewhere...
Wow. I wonder how it breaks down, percentage per crime. Like which crime is putting more people behind bars. I think I have heard that it is drug crimes.
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04:18 AM
Scott-Wa Member
Posts: 5392 From: Tacoma, WA, USA Registered: Mar 2002
We are also the ONLY country in the world that uses the death penalty on minors. And the only democracy that still uses it at all.
It's interesting that while we make exceptions to charge minors at adults, other countries go the other way and will charge adults as minors when appropriate.
Interesting that the stun guns we use to incapacitate prisoners are considered torture by most counties under the UN Convention against Torture. I find the use more humane when the choice is to shoot you with a lethal weapon or a stun gun/taser. When the taser is used because you have it and your going to teach them a 'lesson' it's a different story. Tasering a person in cuffs on the ground over and over? How far is that from the evil guys in the movies taping the electrodes to your genitals or nipples? Does it hurt less because it's a law enforcement officer hitting the switch? I doubt it.
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05:09 PM
Scott-Wa Member
Posts: 5392 From: Tacoma, WA, USA Registered: Mar 2002
Wow. I wonder how it breaks down, percentage per crime. Like which crime is putting more people behind bars. I think I have heard that it is drug crimes.
Yep, it's those crimes that are not against another person or property...
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05:11 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
A Tazer, IMO, should be a non-lethal alternative to using lethal force. It should only be used in instances where you would otherwise have to use lethal force. I think the police, in general, are far too quick to use it because it's so easy to pull the trigger, and figure since it's non-lethal they can use it with impunity.
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05:13 PM
RotrexFiero Member
Posts: 3692 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Jul 2002
Lethal force and tasers.....what are you doing that you are involved with people that even use that type of equipment? A fool will find problems in paradise.
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06:17 PM
PFF
System Bot
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
The death penalty for juvenile offenders (criminals aged under 18 years at the time of their crime) has become increasingly rare. The only countries still officially supporting the practice are Bangladesh, Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Yemen
Look up Roper v. Simmons (2005) and I think you'll find that juvenile death penalty has effectively been outlawed here.
Here's a list from 1990 from Amnesty International
USA Dalton Prejean Johnny Garrett Curtis Harris Frederick Lashley Christopher Burger Ruben Cantu Joseph John Cannon Robert Anthony Carter Dwayne Allen Wright Sean Sellers Steve Roach Chris Thomas Glen McGinnis Gary Graham Gerald Mitchell Napolean Beazley T.J. Jones Toronto Patterson Scott Allen Hain
All of these "children" were 17 at the time of their offence except Sean Sellers who was 16 and the last execution on the list was on April 3, 2003. There have been many executions of juveniles around the world since the last one in the US, particularly in Iran.
PS: Harsh language is considered torture by many other countries too and that means nothing to me either. I'm rapidly approaching the point that we need to chart our own course and ignore the rest of the world for the most part simply because they want to bring us down to THEIR level in many respects. That doesn't mean we should throw out our values and standards but rather there is no way we should allow oursleves to be led around by the nose by countries that can only one day hope to be like the US.
quote
Originally posted by Scott-Wa:
We are also the ONLY country in the world that uses the death penalty on minors. And the only democracy that still uses it at all.
It's interesting that while we make exceptions to charge minors at adults, other countries go the other way and will charge adults as minors when appropriate.
Interesting that the stun guns we use to incapacitate prisoners are considered torture by most counties under the UN Convention against Torture. I find the use more humane when the choice is to shoot you with a lethal weapon or a stun gun/taser. When the taser is used because you have it and your going to teach them a 'lesson' it's a different story. Tasering a person in cuffs on the ground over and over? How far is that from the evil guys in the movies taping the electrodes to your genitals or nipples? Does it hurt less because it's a law enforcement officer hitting the switch? I doubt it.
[This message has been edited by jstricker (edited 11-19-2006).]
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06:32 PM
sostock Member
Posts: 5907 From: Grain Valley, MO Registered: May 2005
John; The death penalty has been effectivly eliminated. There are roughly 15,000 murders in this country every year. There are about 350 executions. Do the math. What are the odds of being executed-even if you get caught? The last execution I heard of a few days ago the guy had been on death row for 25 years! Of course the death penalty is no deterrant. For all practical purposes it does not exist. How many murders do you hear about being committed by someone who has already served time for murder? This happens with surprizing frequency. I'm for a MANDATORY death penalty because if there is an execution for the first murder there will never be a second. As far as what other countries have the death penalty-who gives a chit! That is no reason to do something. If we do not execute murderes; we are morally weak and demonstrate a lack of concern for the victim.
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08:43 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
While I'm not going to argue that the death penalty as it is applied here is not effective as a deterrent, as long as there are executions it has not been eliminated.
I used to be a very staunch proponent for the death penalty but now I am not because as we have it in this country with the appeals system, it is not a deterrent at all, for the exact reasons you pointed out.
For any punishment to be an effective deterrent it must be two things SWIFT and SURE. If either of those two things are absent, penalties in the form of punishment are not a deterrent at all. It was brought up we have an extremely high rate of imprisonment here and that's true. I submit that one of the reasons is because our court system makes actual punishment for a crime iffy, at best, and as such acts as no deterrent at all.
While other countries' punishmenst seem (and in fact ARE) harsh, they ARE a much more reliable and effective deterrent to crime.
If there was some way we could determine with NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER the guilt of a capital crime, I wouldn't even be opposed to the death penalty for purely punitive and/or elimination of the possiblity that a killer might kill again, but we've seen all to often that our court system is riddled with errors and I am no at all comfortable with condemning a man to death given those errors and mistakes.
It's to the point now that if I were called to serve on a jury trial where the death penalty might be invoked, I'm not at all sure I could answer honestly that in good conscience I could bring that penalty down on the convicted.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by larryemory:
John; The death penalty has been effectivly eliminated. There are roughly 15,000 murders in this country every year. There are about 350 executions. Do the math. What are the odds of being executed-even if you get caught? The last execution I heard of a few days ago the guy had been on death row for 25 years! Of course the death penalty is no deterrant. For all practical purposes it does not exist. How many murders do you hear about being committed by someone who has already served time for murder? This happens with surprizing frequency. I'm for a MANDATORY death penalty because if there is an execution for the first murder there will never be a second. As far as what other countries have the death penalty-who gives a chit! That is no reason to do something. If we do not execute murderes; we are morally weak and demonstrate a lack of concern for the victim.
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08:59 PM
Scott-Wa Member
Posts: 5392 From: Tacoma, WA, USA Registered: Mar 2002
The death penalty for juvenile offenders (criminals aged under 18 years at the time of their crime) has become increasingly rare. The only countries still officially supporting the practice are Bangladesh, Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Yemen
There have been many executions of juveniles around the world since the last one in the US, particularly in Iran.
The United States, China, Iran and Saudi Arabia account for over 80% of the executions recorded by Amnesty International.
Since 2000, only four countries --the U.S., the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Pakistan and Iran-- are known to have executed juvenile offenders. Further narrowing this list, Pakistan recently abolished the death penalty for juvenile offenders and the DRC has established a moratorium on executions.
We are now off that list of countries... not exactly company I'd like to keep. While on that list we killed more minors than the rest of those countries COMBINED. http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGACT500072002.
I'm wondering why exactly the US and Yemen are the only countries in the world that haven't ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child
We are in the company of these nations... some not so bad... some WTF!?!?!
Belgium Bolivia Costa Rica Cuba Dominican Republic Gabon Gambia Iceland Indonesia Morocco Nicaragua Nigeria Sierra Leone Sudan
Convenant on Civil and Political Rights... http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cpr.html Also signed but haven't ratified putting us in the company of Honduras, Cambodia, and Liberia... WTF!?
We have a problem with this?
This covenant details the basic civil and political rights of individuals and nations. Among the rights of nations are:
* the right to self determination * the right to own, trade, and dispose of their property freely, and not be deprived of their means of subsistence
Among the rights of individuals are:
* the right to legal recourse when their rights have been violated, even if the violator was acting in an official capacity * the right to life * the right to liberty and freedom of movement * the right to equality before the law * the right to presumption of innocence til proven guilty * the right to appeal a conviction * the right to be recognized as a person before the law * the right to privacy and protection of that privacy by law * freedom of thought, conscience, and religion * freedom of opinion and expression * freedom of assembly and association
The covenant forbids torture and inhuman or degrading treatment, slavery or involuntary servitude, arbitrary arrest and detention, and debtor's prisons. It forbids propaganda advocating either war or hatred based on race, religion, national origin, or language.
It provides for the right of people to choose freely whom they will marry and to found a family, and requires that the duties and obligations of marriage and family be shared equally between partners. It guarantees the rights of children and prohibits discrimination based on race, sex, color, national origin, or language.
It also restricts the death penalty to the most serious of crimes, guarantees condemned people the right to appeal for commutation to a lesser penalty, and forbids the death penalty entirely for people under 18 years of age.
The covenant permits governments to temporarily suspend some of these rights in cases of civil emergency only, and lists those rights which cannot be suspended for any reason. It also establishes the UN Human Rights Commission.
After almost two decades of negotiations and rewriting, the text of the Universal Covenant on Civil and Political Rights was agreed upon in 1966. In 1976, after being ratified by the required 35 states, it became international law.
Interesting that we can't ratify even 30 years after it became international law... geez it's modeled after OUR bill of rights. Maybe that's a problem.
I gave 50 bucks to a krackhead about 5 months ago and got nothing but grief for it from the usual people.. What everyone failed to realize is I gave that guy 50 less reasons to perpetrate a crime against someone else. Is seems we have forgotten a fundimental aspect of survival.. We all depend on one enother.
Crime happens because people dont care. Someone somewhere gave up and the individual "the criminal" lost hope in humanity.
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10:06 PM
sostock Member
Posts: 5907 From: Grain Valley, MO Registered: May 2005
i have a problem with killing any human who is not a direct threat to me.
i don't believe the death penalty does any good and is certainly not a deterant. how many murders even know if their state has the death penalty?
on the other hand, when the guy down in FL kidnapped, rapped and buried that little girl alive.
bullet to the head.
that's all.
The death penalty isn't about deterance its about punishment always has been. To say it doesn't deter and is there for not working means that no punishment works at all and never has and never will. Courts and the rest of the justice system are reactionary not proactive. Some people don't deserve to live. They are just pure evil. It would help alot if it didn't cost millions in legal costs for 3 retrials. I personaly don't like to pay for that or to house inmates either. No mater what menial jobs you can come up with they will never be able to put back in to eas the cost to the rest of us. What we need are hangings for those who are guilty bevond all doubt aftyer your one retrial.
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10:38 PM
Scott-Wa Member
Posts: 5392 From: Tacoma, WA, USA Registered: Mar 2002
The death penalty isn't about deterance its about punishment always has been. To say it doesn't deter and is there for not working means that no punishment works at all and never has and never will. Courts and the rest of the justice system are reactionary not proactive. Some people don't deserve to live. They are just pure evil. It would help alot if it didn't cost millions in legal costs for 3 retrials. I personaly don't like to pay for that or to house inmates either. No mater what menial jobs you can come up with they will never be able to put back in to eas the cost to the rest of us. What we need are hangings for those who are guilty bevond all doubt aftyer your one retrial.
Problem is that with all those appeals we still kill people that most likely were innocent. That is a problem with the system, prosecutors and the rest of their department that don't like to have their records ruined, or politicians wanting votes more than justice. There have been too many people railroaded and slaughtered. The bloodlust for the bastards that do commit horrific crimes don't really make up for killing innocent people. The death penalty is only a deterant for the person you kill... they sure aren't going to do it again. For the ones that don't want rehab, openly taunt about their crimes etc... fine. That fact that we kill people without a shred of physical evidence tying them to a crime and witnesses that say the person isn't the criminal... THAT is a problem. Close enough is NOT good enough when your talking about taking someone's life and the level of scrutiny we give death penalty cases and the lies told to jurors to get them to call for death rather than a life sentence are horrible.
....wait, she is not even good looking.
