quote Originally posted by Formula88: I haven't noticed any screams of "stealing the election" or impropriety or election fraud. Guess that only happens when Republicans win.

LOL

That does seem to be the case.

Forgot to say-

The biggest news in Rhode Island-

No Narragansett Indian / Harrah's Casino.

Probably a wise choice IMHO.

Senator Allen, R VA, concedes, Democrats now control house and senate.
Republicans still control White house, supreme court.

Heard it on FOX "news" Not on their website yet.
http://www.cnn.com/

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 11-08-2006).]

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Senator Allen, R VA, concedes, Democrats now control house and senate. Republicans still control White house, supreme court. Heard it on FOX "news" Not on their website yet. http://www.cnn.com/

Well, now you have no excuses. If anything goes wrong (terrorist attack, economy tanks), it will be people like YOU that will have to answer for why your heroes didn't save the world. Are you up to the challenge?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Well, now you have no excuses. If anything goes wrong (terrorist attack, economy tanks), it will be people like YOU that will have to answer for why your heroes didn't save the world. Are you up to the challenge?

Did you see Bill O'Reily tonight? He was interviewing a Democrat (don't remember his name) and mentioned just that - that the Dems will have to answer for any of their failures. His response.... W. is still the president and it's still his responsibility.

Guess some things never change.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Did you see Bill O'Reily tonight? He was interviewing a Democrat (don't remember his name) and mentioned just that - that the Dems will have to answer for any of their failures. His response.... W. is still the president and it's still his responsibility. Guess some things never change.

It's going to take some time before Democrats can make any real changes, so to dump total responsibility on the Democrats is ludacris. Now if action taken by the Democrats leads to failures, then they will be to blame, but this goes without saying. I'm really missing the point here.

quote Originally posted by Spektrum-87GT: It's going to take some time before Democrats can make any real changes, so to dump total responsibility on the Democrats is ludacris. Now if action taken by the Democrats leads to failures, then they will be to blame, but this goes without saying. I'm really missing the point here.

No point. Just an observation.

quote Originally posted by Spektrum-87GT: I'm really missing the point here.

My take? He was passing the buck. I would have more faith in someone with confidence, not excuses.

quote Originally posted by Spektrum-87GT: It's going to take some time before Democrats can make any real changes, so to dump total responsibility on the Democrats is ludacris. Now if action taken by the Democrats leads to failures, then they will be to blame, but this goes without saying. I'm really missing the point here.

Umm...


I believe you mean "ludicrous."

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Pelosi is reportedly worth $50 Million dollars. Her predecessor Haster less than $1 Million. ....power to the people!!!

So Republicans are now against people with lots of money, Ha!

BTW, our Michigan Republican candidate for Governor spent $40 Million dollars in this election and LOST.

....power to the people!

OK, one more, then I'm going to bed. Gotta deal with the (4 legged) animals bright and early tomorrow.
An interesting CALI- FORNIA race:

California Congressman Richard Pombo, a true nut and total crook who has soiled everything he’s touched for seven terms in the House.

Pombo’s 11th District has gone from mostly farms to endless subdivisions in those 14 years, while he has worked tirelessly to sell off national parks, drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, trash the Endangered Species Act and peddle his ass to Jack Abramoff and the Indian Casinos. And he chaired the House Resources Committee, so his environmental threats weren’t exactly idle ones.

An out-of-nowhere Dem named Jerry McNerney beat Pombo 53-47.
Pombo’s equally crooked neighbor in the sprawling rural District 4, John Doolittle, managed to hang onto that very conservative chunk of northeastern California only because the Libertarian took 10,600 votes.
So Doolittle — considered the most crooked congressman after Tom DeLay — won 49-46 against Dem Charlie Brown.
Thanks, Libertarians.
More corruption.
Good job.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/11/08/MNG9LM8JDV4.DTL

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 11-09-2006).]

quote Originally posted by RandomTask: I have to disagree. Clinton ran a policy of appeasment and public opinion whoring. He let bin laden go. He ignored north korea (actually helped by sending them money). He let attacks against us go unanswered. As far as the economy went, he just rode the .com boom (which as we know, eventually tanked). Under Bush, the economy is now not only strong, but has a firm footing. I will agree to you on some extent. A lot of our politicians need to realize that they don't have to keep passing retarded laws to make themselves feel useful.

And Bush has done what about N. Korea? Oh yeah... ignored them. What has Bush done about Osama? Oh yeah, NOT captured or killed him. Economy... what the hell firm footing are you referring to? Jobs going offshore at a steady rate, real wages dropping for most people... economy growing at rates lower than what the republicans were calling stagnation under Clinton. What exactly is this firm footing your referring to? That's been a talking point lately... now a spiraling deficit and debt, nothing done to fund social security and medicare, businesses being able to stuff their underfunded pensions on the taxpayers as they declare bankruptcy while the individuals can't, predatory interest rates becoming the norm with no restrictions on when and why they are imposed, blah blah blah...

WHAT THE HELL is the firm footing? Have we pushed wages down far enough that you don't believe that more jobs will be moved offshore? Taken away enough benefits from ordinary workers? Did we suddenly have a massive increase in industrial stability? Did GM and Ford suddenly turn around and everything is rosy? Did the electronics/clothing/medical/furniture/automotive industries just recover in the US while I wasn't looking?

I hate freaking statements like that... if your going to say the economy has a strong footing, explain what that footing is.

Oh yeah... as much of a tool as Clinton was, he did NOT let attacks go unanswered. He took to time to figure out a response before acting. That boy loved cruise missiles and much like Bush couldn't figure out where to send them... hitting China's embassy, medicine factories, the yugo factory etc... but killed a whole lot less innocent people than Bush is responsible for.

quote Originally posted by GonsaiPK: Umm... I believe you mean "ludicrous."

Nah.. We need Chingy....

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: OK, one more, then I'm going to bed. Gotta deal with the (4 legged) animals bright and early tomorrow. An interesting CALI- FORNIA race: California Congressman Richard Pombo, a true nut and total crook who has soiled everything he’s touched for seven terms in the House. Pombo’s 11th District has gone from mostly farms to endless subdivisions in those 14 years, while he has worked tirelessly to sell off national parks, drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, trash the Endangered Species Act and peddle his ass to Jack Abramoff and the Indian Casinos. And he chaired the House Resources Committee, so his environmental threats weren’t exactly idle ones. An out-of-nowhere Dem named Jerry McNerney beat Pombo 53-47.

I live in that 11th district and was very happy to do my part to show Pombo the door. Saw him on TV today looking like he couldn't believe he got fired.

Now he can go back to being the "rancher businessman" his signs littering the countryside proclaim him to be.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: I think a two party government is better than a one party government. Yeah, no big surprises here.

Amen ..Checks and Balances ..Bush has the Exec but he is in check now, can't appoint judges willy nilly with Dems contolling both Houses and there will be a check on his rubber stamped GOP congress approval of his proclaimed dictatoral powers. Then again, there will be checks and balances from the Judical Branch on both Houses ...

The system worked as it was designed to. President Bush will be like every other Lame Duck President, little of his personnal or party agenda will go anywhere. This election sets up a very interesting situation for the next and now changes the balance of power within the Demoncratic Party. It will be interesting to see of which Dem. woman runs for the big brass ring in 08.

Locally, I was very surprised at the results. An incumbent Dem. female Mayor was beat in a landslide in Lexington, KY. Just goes to show ya, ya never know what's going to happen. Also, an attempt to take over the water company was defeated.

------------------
Ron
Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all.
My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Well, there is that money issue.

Democrats are supposed to be poor, obviously. Otherwise they would be Republican.

quote Originally posted by Tigger: So Republicans are now against people with lots of money, Ha! BTW, our Michigan Republican candidate for Governor spent $40 Million dollars in this election and LOST. ....power to the people!

quote Originally posted by GonsaiPK: Umm... I believe you mean "ludicrous."

haha, stupid french origin words get me all the time

quote Originally posted by Scott-Wa: And Bush has done what about N. Korea? Oh yeah... ignored them.

The only point I would make here is that N. Korea wants unilateral talks with the U.S. Bush is insisting, rightly so, on six party talks. It is imperative that Japan, China, South Korea, and other powers in the region have input into any agreement with DPRK. The U.S. does not need to go in and tell everyone that they've reached an agreement with Kim and this is how it's going to be. No one will accept that and nothing will be solved.

People complain about the U.S. going in and being world police - enforcing our doctrine on other countries. That is exactly what unilateral talks will be viewed as.

quote Originally posted by Jeremiah: Democrats are supposed to be poor, obviously. Otherwise they would be Republican.

Uh, yeah, thus the irony.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: The U.S. does not need to go in and tell everyone that they've reached an agreement with Kim ...............

Like Kim would keep it this time . Another reason for six party talks is more accoutability on his part.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: People complain about the U.S. going in and being world police - enforcing our doctrine on other countries. That is exactly what unilateral talks will be viewed as.

Speaking of irony, I've seen the SAME people on this board complain that Bush isn't doing something about (blank), then when he does, they blame him for involving us in (blank).

You need more civics classes Erik. The house has nothing to say about Judicial appointments, that's the Senate's job.

You seem to forget the fillibustering of judicial appointments throught Bush's term, is that not a check and balance?

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Erik: Amen ..Checks and Balances ..Bush has the Exec but he is in check now, can't appoint judges willy nilly with Dems contolling both Houses and there will be a check on his rubber stamped GOP congress approval of his proclaimed dictatoral powers. Then again, there will be checks and balances from the Judical Branch on both Houses ...

quote Originally posted by jstricker: You need more civics classes Erik. The house has nothing to say about Judicial appointments, that's the Senate's job. You seem to forget the fillibustering of judicial appointments throught Bush's term, is that not a check and balance? John Stricker

John, I think it all comes down to perception, especially with people like Erik or Jazzman. For example, the economy is doing very well, but guys like these b**** incessantly about how bad the economy is. Why? The numbers don't support it, but because the guy(s) they don't like are in office, their perception is that everything is bad.

It will be very interesting to see how these guys deal with issues when THEIR politicians of chioce are running things. Remember how they accused us of being apologists for the Repubs?

http://www.spectator.org/util/print.asp?art_id=10450

quote Harry Hay was a fierce advocate of man/boy love. While The Chronicle simply ignored Harry's views, the North American Man/Boy Love Association was only too delighted to put up a collection of Harry's views on the need for young boys to have older men as sexual partners. Here's just a sample taken from a talk at a New York University forum sponsored by a campus gay group in 1983. Said Harry: "Because if the parents and friends of gays are truly friends of gays, they would know from their gay kids that the relationship with an older man is precisely what thirteen-, fourteen-, and fifteen-year-old kids need more than anything else in the world." In short, San Francisco's beloved Harry Hay was a vigorous and well-known advocate of older men having sex with young boys. He was a fearless and quite famous advocate for Congressman Mark Foley's behavior. Which makes one curious about the presence of marcher number 34 in the 2001 Pride Parade. Marching a mere three spots away from the famous Harry Hay, no doubt waving and smiling to the crowd, was, as the Chronicle logged her in the Official Guide and Program Parade Lineup: "U.S. Rep. Nancy Pelosi." That would be now Democratic leader of the U.S. Congress and the candidate of the Democratic Party to be the next Speaker of the House of Representatives, the official third in line to be President of the United States. Surely this is a different Rep. Nancy Pelosi from the one who currently has on her website as Minority Leader the following statement: "Republican leaders admitted to knowing about Mr. Foley's abhorrent behavior for six months to a year and failed to protect the children in their trust. Republican Leaders must be investigated by the Ethics Committee and immediately questioned under oath."

Theres hypocrisy on both sides, whatever.


Scott-Wa
The Cole? That was bin-laden. He blatently orchestrated an attack a U.S. Navy ship. You know how ballsy that is? We did nothing, oh sure, Clinton had "Plans" but a plan is worth only the paper its on without any action. As far as footing, Clinton rode the .com boost. The economy was great, don't get me wrong, but as soon as people let go of their ankles, everything collapsed.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_36/b3898028_mz001.htm

quote Originally posted by Tigger: So Republicans are now against people with lots of money, Ha! BTW, our Michigan Republican candidate for Governor spent $40 Million dollars in this election and LOST. ....power to the people!

I don't get it?

Republicans are the working class people as should be obvious by the demographics of the vote.

Since all the wealthy Senators and Congressmen are Democrats (9 of the top 10 richest Senators are Democrats) don't you think it seems hypocritical to be standing there in your smoking jacket with a cheeky cabernet in one hand while running the other through your hand sculpted state of the art hair creation chirping about the plight of the poor people while bulldozing endangered species in San Martin California and hiring illegal migrant workers to pick your grapes?

....power to the people....and education too

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Did you see Bill O'Reily tonight? He was interviewing a Democrat (don't remember his name) and mentioned just that - that the Dems will have to answer for any of their failures. His response.... W. is still the president and it's still his responsibility. Guess some things never change.

Sen. Schumer, D. NY

quote Originally posted by Scott-Wa: ... unfortunately I also don't believe the federal government as it's run today accomplishes anything it sets out to do in any sort of effective manner.

Then just not have it do anything. Because a large percentage of individual citizens can do great if just left alone.

How about a court system, laws, roads, and then get out of the way. Or do you not believe the american citizen can take care of himself and NEEDS a government to take care of them? Even one that can't do anything in an effective manner.


I am fine if you or anyone else wants to be happy that the democrats control the House and Senate. It will just be a different flavor of ineffectiveness.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Well, now you have no excuses. If anything goes wrong (terrorist attack, economy tanks), it will be people like YOU that will have to answer for why your heroes didn't save the world. Are you up to the challenge?

Haha, thats good. How many threads would I find if I did a search in OT where the Reps on the board here chastised people for blaming anything on Bush because he had to deal with Clinton's leftover mess? No flip flopping, Bear. Thats bad.

I'm just glad not to have 15 political ad phone calls a day anymore. I was getting tired of jotting down the names of all those telemarketers, so as to avoid accidentally voting for any of them.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Haha, thats good. How many threads would I find if I did a search in OT where the Reps on the board here chastised people for blaming anything on Bush because he had to deal with Clinton's leftover mess? No flip flopping, Bear. Thats bad.

Clinton didn't do anything Scott except skate his way through the internet boom.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Republicans are the working class people as should be obvious by the demographics of the vote. Since all the wealthy Senators and Congressmen are Democrats (9 of the top 10 richest Senators are Democrats) don't you think it seems hypocritical to be standing there in your smoking jacket with a cheeky cabernet in one hand while running the other through your hand sculpted state of the art hair creation chirping about the plight of the poor people while bulldozing endangered species in San Martin California and hiring illegal migrant workers to pick your grapes? ....power to the people....and education too

Right, and leave no child behind... with a Republican Congressman.

It has been mentioned here that there have been a lot fewer accusations about "voting irregularities" this time. Part of the credit must go to the people who volunteered their time to watch over the various polling places, in an apparently (mostly) successful attempt to keep elections fair for all citizens. We should all remember these people and if you ever meet one, thank them.
There is a grassroots movement that is gaining speed in this great nation to make political contests more about the people and the issues, and less about pandering to special interests with big checkbooks (and big demands).
The Public Campaign Action Fund. They stand for clean money and clean elections.

[QUOTE] Yesterday voters turned out in record numbers to choose the members of the next Congress. And the results confirmed what we've known to be true: voters are sick of the corruption scandals and they want a Congress that will serve the people, not the lobbyists and big money interests. In fact, voters named corruption as the number one issue for them in exit poll surveys yesterday, ahead of terrorism, the war in Iraq and the economy.

This voter mandate is not going unheeded. When the new Congress convenes on January 2, 2007, at least 108 (according to this morning's results) of its members will do so as supporters of Clean Elections-style public financing of elections, including more than 90 signers on the Voters First Pledge. And we're still watching undetermined races around the country. From this beachhead, we will move forward to push for Clean Elections in the 110th Congress.

In addition, our advertising campaigns in five different races proved effective at raising the issues of money-for-favors and corruption. Anti-reform incumbents failed to overcome the voter anger about Washington's pay-to-play culture in Pennsylvania (Rep. Don Sherwood), California (Rep. Richard Pombo), and Montana (Conrad Burns) while the race in Wyoming (Rep. Barbara Cubin) is still too close to call.

we have put the next Congress on notice that Americans will not wait on the sidelines hoping that change will happen on its own.

Now it's time to hold those who signed our pledge to their promise to put voters first, ensure greater accountability, lobbying transparency, and full public financing for congressional races. In an election season marked by record-setting fundraising, our efforts have set in motion a serious campaign to change how Washington, D.C. operates.

In California, we should note, despite the valiant efforts by reformers and activists, Proposition 89 did not pass. But this campaign plowed new ground and has advanced efforts to bring Clean Elections to the nation's largest state. [QUOTE]

Ponder this: The government GIVES the airwaves to the radio and TV broadcast companies.
WHAT IF they were required to "return the favor" by giving free airtime to political candidates?
The most expensive part of a political campaign is buying airtime for advertisements.
With free airtime, the candidates would not be so dependent on large ammounts of cash from lobbiests.
It's an idea worth considering, IMO.
http://www.campaignmoney.org/

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: Then just not have it do anything. Because a large percentage of individual citizens can do great if just left alone. How about a court system, laws, roads, and then get out of the way. Or do you not believe the american citizen can take care of himself and NEEDS a government to take care of them? Even one that can't do anything in an effective manner. I am fine if you or anyone else wants to be happy that the democrats control the House and Senate. It will just be a different flavor of ineffectiveness.

Maybe you have missed the 14 million times I've posted that I'm a LIBERTARIAN. What you start off with is pretty much what I'd like to see. The Federal Government is supposed to protect our borders, ensure there are no tariffs on interstate trade and fund itself through tariffs on imports... and protect the constitution. It's not supposed to take local funding to give part back for schools, it's not supposed to tax the people, it's not supposed to have programs like Social Security, Welfare, school lunches, farm subsidies, mohair subsidies, hydrogen subsidies, foreign aid, disaster funding, bank guarantees, trust fund guarantees, etc... etc... ad nauseum.

What its supposed to be and how its supposed to be done conflict rather harshly with reality.

Why am I a local drainage district commissioner? Because the people of this district took it upon themselves to form the district and tax (oh no... better say 'fee') themselves for their combined good. Not to ask someone else to do it, not to ask someone else to pay for it... and it's been working fine for almost a 100 years that way. We accomplish more with our pitiful funding than most agencies spend on a single employee. And I may have figured out a way to reduce our costs even more come next summer.. we haven't raised our fee in decades and operate on about $27K a year. What do you think it would cost to have the feds in charge? I sit on advisory boards that do nothing but supply recommendations to the county council and they spend over double what we do a year just to meet once a month. I spent 5 years on a committee working on a watershed plan... ate up about a 1/2 million dollars and didn't accomplish it's mission. Pissed me off to no end, my main reason for being there was to learn and to protect what we do as a drainage district because I feel if we went away and another agency had to fill in the void they'd be collecting about about 1/4 to 1/2 million a year to do what we do. When people are really vested in their community things work, when there is a disconnect from those with wants and those doing the work or spending the money... things go awry. At the federal level we all want stuff, and 'the government' to pay for it... well there isn't any government paying for anything, it's us paying for what they spend... it's us paying for bailouts, fraud, pork right along with the good stuff. People don't seem to get that anymore.

If the people want those things they should be chosen at the local level.

I'm actually quite surprised the Feds let you get away without a ton of oversight from the soil conservation service, myself. Keep a low profile and stay off their radar, you really don't WANT their help.



John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Scott-Wa: Why am I a local drainage district commissioner? Because the people of this district took it upon themselves to form the district and tax (oh no... better say 'fee') themselves for their combined good. Not to ask someone else to do it, not to ask someone else to pay for it... and it's been working fine for almost a 100 years that way. We accomplish more with our pitiful funding than most agencies spend on a single employee. And I may have figured out a way to reduce our costs even more come next summer.. we haven't raised our fee in decades and operate on about $27K a year. What do you think it would cost to have the feds in charge? I sit on advisory boards that do nothing but supply recommendations to the county council and they spend over double what we do a year just to meet once a month. I spent 5 years on a committee working on a watershed plan... ate up about a 1/2 million dollars and didn't accomplish it's mission. Pissed me off to no end, my main reason for being there was to learn and to protect what we do as a drainage district because I feel if we went away and another agency had to fill in the void they'd be collecting about about 1/4 to 1/2 million a year to do what we do. When people are really vested in their community things work, when there is a disconnect from those with wants and those doing the work or spending the money... things go awry. At the federal level we all want stuff, and 'the government' to pay for it... well there isn't any government paying for anything, it's us paying for what they spend... it's us paying for bailouts, fraud, pork right along with the good stuff. People don't seem to get that anymore. If the people want those things they should be chosen at the local level.

quote Originally posted by Scott-Wa: Maybe you have missed the 14 million times I've posted that I'm a LIBERTARIAN. What you start off with is pretty much what I'd like to see. At the federal level we all want stuff, and 'the government' to pay for it... well there isn't any government paying for anything, it's us paying for what they spend... it's us paying for bailouts, fraud, pork right along with the good stuff. People don't seem to get that anymore.

Yes, I have heard you say you are libertarian 14 million times. Which I take at face value. A TRUE libertarian would then join with me when I speak out against liberal activist judges writing law from the bench instead of interpreting the constitutions they are supposed to be judging and defending. I have no recollection of that happening, for example.

I would have a guess as to how you VOTE, but you certainly don't have to publicly say and I would be very willing to stand corrected.

That said, I very much agree with what you just said. And I am HIGHLY disappointed and disgusted with the republican controlled congress and senate. They certainly let me down completely in regards to reducing spending, and reducing the size of government. (but what would I do? Vote democrat? Like THAT would accomplish the goal, too. They will be even WORSE. Vote libertarian? No realistic chance to win in my part of the world.)


I am also disappointed with the performance of Bush, et.al., in the restructuring of Iraq. I don't think they have done it well. So I am very happy with the way the elections turned out. I am certain the democrats will do a MUCH better job of helping Iraq return to a functioning country, and am excited about their plan to get that nation independently functional again so we can get our troops out. Oh, wait. They don't actually HAVE a plan to finish the job. They just plan to do what a democrat does. Just cut and run. Just abandon the job, and send a STRONG message to terrorists world-wide that the U.S. doesn't have the resolve to accomplish something, and just wait long enough and hang on until that happens.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: I'm actually quite surprised the Feds let you get away without a ton of oversight from the soil conservation service, myself. Keep a low profile and stay off their radar, you really don't WANT their help. John Stricker

Actually I'm presently working on our Federal Stormwater Permit. To cut costs I've been attending meetings and requesting changes on fees etc from State DOE who is the manager for all those done in our state. Got it where now we can combine with the County on their permit as a co-permittee and instead of a $1000+ application fee, it's free to the smaller entities like us that combine with larger entities. So I'm working with County Water Programs on an interjurisdictional agreement that lays out how we treat each other along with the federal requirements. A few years ago they were talking about it costing in excess of $50k... I've got it down to zilch for us except for my time and paper. I have regular meetings with EPA, DOE, Fish and Wildlife, County planning, County Council, County Water Programs, Health Department personnel. Some of the people that wanted our districts dissolved 8 years ago now call us for advice, and the environmentalists that are into stream restoration are taking on methods we've been moving towards for the last decade or so that they used to hassle us about.

Learning how to get people to work together and trust you in government agencies isn't easy, have to learn what they do and show them how your making their lives easier and that you have value to them.... even those times when you want to call Timothy McVeigh for assistance. (it's a JOKE people... better clear that up before the attacks start).

Uh, no. The Democratic platform is not Communism, no matter how hard you fantasize. We all have the right to inheret the same parents’ wealth everyone else did. But it's hilarious that you choose the fact that they have money as a vice and betrayal of their ideology. If Republicans were true to their stereotype, maybe they should keep their hands off the young men in their offices and refuse to cover-up for those that do. I also hear taking kickbacks may be a sin. Let’s ask the 700 club to be sure though... I wonder what they'll say. Bet it starts with "Depends on what party you're in" (The Holier-Than-Thou act goes both ways, you see. So dismount that high, high horse of yours.)

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Uh, yeah, thus the irony.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I haven't noticed any screams of "stealing the election" or impropriety or election fraud. Guess that only happens when Republicans win.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: LOL That does seem to be the case.

Guess I spoke too soon.

Florida Democrat Puts More Faith in Polls Than Election Results

" A Florida Democrat says he won't concede defeat in his race to unseat Republican Rep. Tom Feeney "until every vote is actually counted."

Clint Curtis said he is considering a legal challenge to the election results: "In this election, the results did not match the Zogby pre-election poll, our internal VoteNow2006.net polling, or our exit polling," Curtis explained. "