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It shouldn't be this difficult to get my last position request in the Army! by aceman
Started on: 10-20-2006 10:08 PM
Replies: 17
Last post by: topcat on 10-22-2006 07:03 AM
aceman
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Report this Post10-20-2006 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for acemanSend a Private Message to acemanDirect Link to This Post
Arrrrrgggghhhh! After today, I'm about to give up on my quest to be an instructor in the Army.

Two years ago, I was taking an Army course when the instructor asked if I ever thought of an instructing position. I said that I did and he offered to get me in as an instructor in his section of the "schoolhouse". Great! But, one catch....in two weeks I was deploying to Iraq. I came back from Iraq and just wanted a break from it all. I started persuing the position again 2 months after I returned from Iraq. Then, my brother-in-law was killed in Iraq and I had no time nor desire to put all my efforts into getting the position.

About 4 months ago, I had a co=worker and former instructor ask if I still wanted to instruct. I told him yes and he was trying to get someone to flip flop positions with me. He got my foot in the door and after about 2 months ago, I realized my chain was being pulled and nothing was going to materialize. The person that wanted to flip flop with me called me up and stated there was someone new in charge. So we started working that avenue. This time everything truly sounded promising. I sent in my Bio (military resume) That really interested them. Then, the started calling weekly with "Please send me this." or "You need to get this done". FINALLY, today, I handed in my military photo and had a face to face interview with all the important parties. The came back and said they were thoroughly impressed with everything and I was exactly what they needed and wanted. Then they stated ONE PROBLEM.......My security clearance. I have an Interim Secret security clearance after the regular Secret clearance unexpectedly expired. I got the Interim Secret clearance 2.5 years ago. It can take 3-5 years before you have a full fledged Secret clearance. They give the Interim Secret after a quick background check. The Interim clearance gives me 100% the same access as a full regular clearance.
They want me to see if I can push along and get the full Secret clearance before they accept me and move me into the position. This is the Army. There are 10,000 other Soldiers awaiting their full clearances and there is no quick phone call to cut thru the red tape. I'm tired of jumping through all these hoops one at a time only to be disappointed with another hoop set up for me to jump through! I really don't understand this requirement as I dealt with more sensitive info in Iraq and in my current job. What's really laughable is that I held an Interim Top Secret clearance when I was assigned to a Military Intel unit! I don't understand this..........The child prostitution ring charges were dropped 7 years ago!
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Scott-Wa
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Report this Post10-20-2006 10:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scott-WaClick Here to visit Scott-Wa's HomePageClick Here to Email Scott-WaSend a Private Message to Scott-WaDirect Link to This Post
I guess all that's changed since I was in also... I had a top secret within weeks of entering AIT. That was back in the early 80's. I can see them doing some extra interviews, credit checks etc if it's been a while or you've gotten some flag on your file like having married a foriegn national, getting arrested, own a fiero... that sort of thing.
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Psychosis39
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Report this Post10-20-2006 10:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Psychosis39Click Here to Email Psychosis39Send a Private Message to Psychosis39Direct Link to This Post
I feel you about trying to get anything done in the Army, in my unit you have to become a vigilante of sorts and play the chain of command game at the same time.
You shouldn't have that much trouble with that security clearance if you had one before, A secret I was told lasts up to 10 years. I have one now since I am a 94F Special elctronics device repairer. Usually with the interim, if you get it, you pretty much have your clearance but have to wait for it to be processed. I know people in my unit and soldiers wanting to become flight warrants they accpe the interim because of that. You might have a problem though due depending on what rank you are and what MOS you are.

Good luck and just be persistant in playing the army game
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aceman
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Report this Post10-20-2006 10:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for acemanSend a Private Message to acemanDirect Link to This Post
Scott, my credit is good. My criminal record is clean. I've never had a security violation. No drug or alcohol problems. No military UCMJ record. 1-2 minor tickets in the past 10 years. NOTHING. My only "fault" was that 9 years ago, I didn't realize that they downgraded my top secret to a secret because I was no longer handling top secret material and 4 years ago, that secret clearance expired.
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aceman
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Report this Post10-20-2006 10:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for acemanSend a Private Message to acemanDirect Link to This Post

aceman

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quote
Originally posted by Psychosis39:

I feel you about trying to get anything done in the Army, in my unit you have to become a vigilante of sorts and play the chain of command game at the same time.
You shouldn't have that much trouble with that security clearance if you had one before, A secret I was told lasts up to 10 years. I have one now since I am a 94F Special elctronics device repairer. Usually with the interim, if you get it, you pretty much have your clearance but have to wait for it to be processed. I know people in my unit and soldiers wanting to become flight warrants they accpe the interim because of that. You might have a problem though due depending on what rank you are and what MOS you are.

Good luck and just be persistant in playing the army game



I've had a full secret clearance for 15 years. You're exactly right on the interim (Very perceptive for a junior enlisted with little time in the Army!), but this CSM isn't understanding that I'm just waiting for everything to be processed. I low priority because I'm in the personnel management field now and the rest of the army views an interim as good as a regular clearance.........ESPECIALLY ONE THAT'S BEEN IN PLACE FOR 2.5 YEARS!
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Scott-Wa
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Report this Post10-21-2006 12:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Scott-WaClick Here to visit Scott-Wa's HomePageClick Here to Email Scott-WaSend a Private Message to Scott-WaDirect Link to This Post
But you still own a fiero

I wasn't insinuating there was any reason you wouldn't still qualify, just find it interesting that the time lag seems to have increased dramatically. Wonder why... if they are digging way deeper, have a huge backlog due to the wars, have less personnel to deal with the background checks, or what. Maybe it's related to homeland security having turned everything into a quagmire.

Doubt I'd qualify for a Top Secret anymore... wonder if it's a good thing that the main reason why appears to have disappeared from the web.
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sostock
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Report this Post10-21-2006 12:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sostockSend a Private Message to sostockDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Scott-Wa:

But you still own a fiero

I wasn't insinuating there was any reason you wouldn't still qualify, just find it interesting that the time lag seems to have increased dramatically. Wonder why... if they are digging way deeper, have a huge backlog due to the wars, have less personnel to deal with the background checks, or what. Maybe it's related to homeland security having turned everything into a quagmire.

Doubt I'd qualify for a Top Secret anymore... wonder if it's a good thing that the main reason why appears to have disappeared from the web.


huh??
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topcat
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Report this Post10-21-2006 06:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for topcatClick Here to Email topcatSend a Private Message to topcatDirect Link to This Post
True story:

One of my Airman retrained into a job where she needed a Top Secret. She already had a secret and they are really backlogged on doing the investigations for the clearances, but a waiver was requested to allow her to enter training and it was approved. She went thru training, graduated, and reprted to her new job. The problem was her top secret clearance was not done and would take another three years minimum before it was completed, the problem was she could not do the job she was trained for with the secret, so she was farmed out to do administrative work. As the background checks neared completion, they found something that disqualified her for the top secret... and the secret as well. So now she did not have any clearances at all! By now about four years have gone by and she was disapproved for any clearnace, so she could not do the job that she was trained for and she had been out of her previous job for so long that she was no longer qualified to perform it. So the Air Force had to decide on what to do with her. Send her back thru training again which cost lots of dollars, or give her severance pay and separate her. That process took about two years because they decided to separate, but she did not want it so she appealed. She won her appeal and was allowed to go thru training again, and take to a job that she did not need a clearance for at all.

So, the lesson I gleaned from all of that is if the new job requires a clearance, wait for it. Investigations take long at times, but the outcome is never really known. Of course some folks are squeaky clean, but it is not a known fact until the investigation runs its course. Ask my Airman.

Best of luck to you!
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Report this Post10-21-2006 06:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for topcatClick Here to Email topcatSend a Private Message to topcatDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Scott-Wa:

.... Wonder why... if they are digging way deeper, have a huge backlog due to the wars, have less personnel to deal with the background checks, or what. Maybe it's related to homeland security having turned everything into a quagmire.



Yes on all accounts. And the other factor is that all clearances expire after a certain length of time... depending on the level that you have. When they renew them now, they conduct background checks again. They were not doing that much 10 - 15 years ago. Back then if you had one it was merely paperwork to get it renewed... not anymore! We tell all of our folks that when it is time for renewal, do not wait until you have an expired clearance to renew. Start at least one and in some instances two years out.
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Scott-Wa
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Report this Post10-21-2006 09:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Scott-WaClick Here to visit Scott-Wa's HomePageClick Here to Email Scott-WaSend a Private Message to Scott-WaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sostock:


huh??


Hint, illegal munitions export. See if you can figure it out from there.


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Report this Post10-21-2006 09:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WrenchingPilotSend a Private Message to WrenchingPilotDirect Link to This Post
I am not in the military, however, I do some work that requires a Secret clearance. I put in my paperwork for a Secret clearance and got my interim clearance in about a week. My full fledged secret clearance took about 3 months. I had no issues-back taxes, arrests, etc. This all took place this year.

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aceman
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Report this Post10-21-2006 09:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for acemanSend a Private Message to acemanDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by topcat:

True story:

One of my Airman retrained into a job where she needed a Top Secret. She already had a secret and they are really backlogged on doing the investigations for the clearances, but a waiver was requested to allow her to enter training and it was approved. She went thru training, graduated, and reprted to her new job. The problem was her top secret clearance was not done and would take another three years minimum before it was completed, the problem was she could not do the job she was trained for with the secret, so she was farmed out to do administrative work. As the background checks neared completion, they found something that disqualified her for the top secret... and the secret as well. So now she did not have any clearances at all! By now about four years have gone by and she was disapproved for any clearnace, so she could not do the job that she was trained for and she had been out of her previous job for so long that she was no longer qualified to perform it. So the Air Force had to decide on what to do with her. Send her back thru training again which cost lots of dollars, or give her severance pay and separate her. That process took about two years because they decided to separate, but she did not want it so she appealed. She won her appeal and was allowed to go thru training again, and take to a job that she did not need a clearance for at all.

So, the lesson I gleaned from all of that is if the new job requires a clearance, wait for it. Investigations take long at times, but the outcome is never really known. Of course some folks are squeaky clean, but it is not a known fact until the investigation runs its course. Ask my Airman.

Best of luck to you!



Very true topcat.......But with me, any unwaivable disqualifier would have come up to bite me and been addressed on the job. Local police checks have been done yearly so I can access some areas that don't require a clearance. No finance issues to cause alarm. I've been at my current assignment for the past 8.5 years. (Half my active duty career.) They know EVERYTHING about me.

What's frustrating is that my Personnel Mgr in St Louis can and will send me to any other position that requires a Secret security clearance because the interim is in place but they can't force the issue with the school house because it's one of the few nominative position that St Louis has no decision making on.
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Mike Marden
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Report this Post10-21-2006 01:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike MardenClick Here to Email Mike MardenSend a Private Message to Mike MardenDirect Link to This Post
I retired in 92 and held a TS for about 9 years before retiring. Interim clearances used to be fairly easy to get, until a family named WALKER came along. For those of you that don't know about the Walkers, the father (a Navy Warrent Officer comminications type) sold/gave the Soviets classified comm key lists which enabled the Soviets to de-crypt a good deal of the Navy's classified communications. His son (a junior Petty Officer) also pitched in. The Navy had no idea what was going on, until the senior Walker's wife ratted on him (the woman scorned). Boy, did they really throw a monkey wrench into the security clearance works!!!
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84fierotrevor
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Report this Post10-21-2006 01:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fierotrevorClick Here to Email 84fierotrevorSend a Private Message to 84fierotrevorDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike Marden:

I retired in 92 and held a TS for about 9 years before retiring. Interim clearances used to be fairly easy to get, until a family named WALKER came along. For those of you that don't know about the Walkers, the father (a Navy Warrent Officer comminications type) sold/gave the Soviets classified comm key lists which enabled the Soviets to de-crypt a good deal of the Navy's classified communications. His son (a junior Petty Officer) also pitched in. The Navy had no idea what was going on, until the senior Walker's wife ratted on him (the woman scorned). Boy, did they really throw a monkey wrench into the security clearance works!!!


so what happend to walker? lol
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Scott-Wa
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Report this Post10-21-2006 01:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scott-WaClick Here to visit Scott-Wa's HomePageClick Here to Email Scott-WaSend a Private Message to Scott-WaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fierotrevor:


so what happend to walker? lol

He is still in prison, his son was paroled in 2000, his wife was never prosecuted because she turned him in and turned states evidence against him. Not sure what happened to the guy he recruited that wasn't a family member, I suspect he also is still in prison.
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Report this Post10-21-2006 02:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageClick Here to Email pokeyfieroSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Scott-Wa:

He is still in prison, his son was paroled in 2000, his wife was never prosecuted because she turned him in and turned states evidence against him. Not sure what happened to the guy he recruited that wasn't a family member, I suspect he also is still in prison.



Doesn't the Military kill traitors anymore?
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Report this Post10-21-2006 02:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sostockSend a Private Message to sostockDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Scott-Wa:


Hint, illegal munitions export. See if you can figure it out from there.



hmmm, sounds a bit too heavy for me.

i was hoping for something along the lines of "proof of aliens landing" or "lochness monster is real".
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Report this Post10-22-2006 07:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for topcatClick Here to Email topcatSend a Private Message to topcatDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by aceman:
Very true topcat.......But with me, any unwaivable disqualifier would have come up to bite me and been addressed on the job. Local police checks have been done yearly so I can access some areas that don't require a clearance. No finance issues to cause alarm. I've been at my current assignment for the past 8.5 years. (Half my active duty career.) They know EVERYTHING about me.



Trust me on this one... the background security checks go much deeper than the local checks and finance credit checks. They also do FBI background checks, and arrest histories for all States and countries that you've frequented since filling out the application. In my position I see the results of the security clearance checks, and there are times that stuff happens when military folks are on leave, or vacation away from thier duty station that never makes it back to your command... it can be suprising to say the least.

Now after saying that, it seems to me that an instructor position that only requires a secret should be waiverable as long as you have the interim... unless your instructor duties requires you to teach stuff that is classified secret.
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