This should be a real easy question for any car audio buff, but which terminals do I connect on these speakers?



Is the RED terminal the positive one, and the terminal on the bottom left the negative?

Are the other terminals on the right hand side bridged together so that both circuits (within the same speaker) are used when just one set of wires are connected to the speakers? [EDIT] (Just ignore this last question/sentence as I later realized that the two right hand terminals were not connected to the crossover device as I had originally thought.)

These speakers were "thrown in" when I bought a car last year and I'm finally getting around now to using them. According to the fella I got them from, they're supposed to be decent speakers, but I don't know anything about them. I can't find anything at the manufacturer's website.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-10-2006).]

MA Audio is half decent . The small red tab is the negative terminal and the large tab is the positive

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Oh, the red tab is the negative one. Damn, I thought red was positive and black was negative. So confusing...

Timmer, thanks for the info!

In regards to my other question about the bridging, does anyone have any opinions on "Bi-wiring" (as opposed to "Bi-amping") in order to use the two circuits separately on a 2-way speaker.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-08-2006).]

Try doing a search for the model number at manufacturer's web site, that many terminals may mean it's a two-way or three-way speaker (woofer and tweeter, or woofer midrange, and tweeter all in one speaker) that has the option of bi-amping. That means you can feed the woofer separately from the tweeter. This lets you use a small amp for the tweeter and a large amp for the woofer.

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88 Formula, Stock T-Tops, 4spd/auto, 3.2 V6, balanced, 9.5 comp ratio, roller chain, roller tip rockers, H260 cam, Darrell Morse throttle body, 19lb injectors, Trueleo intake, Spintech muffler, K&N ,

It's definitely a 2-way speaker (as it states on the back of the speaker in my second picture), but the MA website is useless. I realize that this is probably pretty simple, but I've never connected this type of a speaker before.

Patrick,
I've got an A.S. in Communication Electronics, FCC Commercial and Amateur Licenses. In the real world, Bi Wiring would only give you an audible difference if your wires were too small to carry the rated power to the speaker and you were running parallel wires (that's all bi-wiring is, I looked at the link you posted) to increase the gauge of the speaker wires. You could accomplish the same effect by increasing the size of your speaker wires.

I was just curious about the Bi-wiring because I had never heard of it before.

I'm more interested at this moment in simple stuff, like which terminals to use on these speakers? Timmer had told me the red terminal was the negative one. If I'm not even using it now, is it then the left terminal(s) which are negative (since they are the ones also connected to the crossover as was the red terminal)?

Patrick, another trick you can use (especially when trying to use spkrs from different manufacturers) is to put a small battery, AA or 9 volt, on the terminals to see which terminal is positive. The spkr cone will move out when the + side of the batt is on the + terminal. This comes in handy when one spkr is marked and the other ones aren't,

I might be wrong..but I always believed that, looking from the rear of the speaker, the lefthand terminal is always the positive terminal.The most important factor is not shown in the pictures..and that is where do the terminals connect to? If you look behind the terminals, are there as many wires leading off as many terminals, or are some of them linked together behind? A view of the face of the cone would be helpful too, to show whether there is a tweeter mounted , or a tweeter and a mid-range, as well as the main driver. Can you show a picture of the other side, Patrick?
Nick

Patrick,
Typically red means positive, but on spkrs polarity doesn't matter as long as they're all hooked up the same i.e. all + wires to + terminal on spkrs. or all + wires to - terminals. If you have one spkr out of phase (that's what they call it when one is wired backwards from the others) you will have some strange sound characteristics in the bass sounds. As you move throughout the soundfield some areas will have very heavy bass, while others will have almost no bass.

88 Formula..perhaps you could explain something that has always baffled (no PUN!!) me..the + and - wires lead to a coil which is mounted on the baffle, which then enters a fixed polarity magnet.Does it not make the coil move in the wrong direction in relation to the magnet, if wired back to front? I think it works on the theory that like poles repel each other, and opposite poles attract. And so, when the current passes through the voice coil, does it reverse the pull or push motion of the voice coil? I seem to have had problems where the voice coil bottoms out into the magnet when they are wired back to front, because the bass causes maximum travel, and that travel is designed to push the baffle out, rather than in? And so, when wired back to front, the travel is inward, rsulting in heavy bass notes causing too much inward travel?
Sorry to hijack, Patrick, but this seems like an opportunity to answer a question that has always perplexed me..
Nick
Edit to add: I did learn in a similar thread a long time ago that the current switches from pos to neg many hundreds of times during a sound being played..but I am still wondering about this aspect

quote Originally posted by 88 Formula: Patrick, Typically red means positive, but on spkrs polarity doesn't matter as long as they're all hooked up the same i.e. all + wires to + terminal on spkrs. or all + wires to - terminals. If you have one spkr out of phase (that's what they call it when one is wired backwards from the others) you will have some strange sound characteristics in the bass sounds. As you move throughout the soundfield some areas will have very heavy bass, while others will have almost no bass.

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 10-08-2006).]

quote Originally posted by 88 Formula: Typically red means positive...

That’s what I originally thought...

88 Formula, thanks for all the tips, but I know about the battery trick, and I know what puts speakers out of phase. The problem is that I don’t have access to the front speakers mounted in the doors (and I don’t want to take the doors apart ). Yeah, just having the rear speakers in phase (with each other) is no problem, but I’m not sure if they’re going to be in phase with the front ones. That's why I was trying to determine which terminals were positive and negative.

Nick, here’s a shot from a slightly different angle which shows the wires going to the cone(s).



I can’t get a shot of the front/top of the speakers because the speaker covers are now installed, but there is a device sticking up in the middle of the speaker about the size and shape of a thread bobbin.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-08-2006).]

Fetish,
A spkr usually has the coil glued to the cone (there are other designs but this is most common) the cone supports the coil which rests inside a magnet. The cone at rest is at a midpoint of travel, + input moves the cone one way, - input moves it the other. A voltage too high for the design will cause over excursion, you've probably heard this, it's a nasty, harsh buzz or rattle from the cone and coil bottoming out against the magnet. Carefully push the cone of a bare spkr, you can push it back into the magnet, and also push it out from behind. The cone rests at the middle of it's travel. Do the battery trick, you'll see the cone move in one way, flip the polarity of the batt and the cone will move the other way.

Pure educated( ) guesswork, Patrick..probably 88 will shoot me down in flames!!

Nick

The shape under the heatshrink is an electrolytic capacitor (has a distinctive shape, cylindrical with the indented groove at one end) the cap is what is used for a very simple crossover network (routes highs to tweeter and lows to woofer). In this case the cap, which decreases reactance as frequency increases, (reactance is similar to resistance, but changes with frequency, resistance is stable with changing fregs) acts to block lows from the tweeter and passes highs, since it is in series with the tweeter.

You can also put a cap in parallel with a spkr to keep the highs from the spkr by letting them bypass the spkr through the cap.

So, apart from the misnomer, was I near the mark?
Nick

If Patrick can look under the spkr terminals he might be able to see where the wires from the terminals go, i.e. which ones go to the woofer and which to the tweeter. Simple crossovers typically don't use any resistors, a lot just use one cap to block the lows from the tweeter and feed straight through to the woofer.

Damn, I ran out of daylight...

88 Formula, since you appear to have a fair bit of knowledge on all this, to which terminals would you connect the speaker wires? What am I supposed to do when there are three terminals (not counting the duplicate ones) and only two wires? I know this isn't rocket science, but I'm confused.

Nick, go to bed.

[EDIT] 88 Formula, you posted while I was typing, but it seemed to me that the two wires that went to the cone just sort of disappeared under the cone. I couldn't see much of anything else.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-08-2006).]

Can't, I am chatting to Fiero1fan on Skype, in Germany!! He's watching the Steeler's game
If you only have two wires, Patrick, I would connect the positive to the left terminal group, and the negs to the right terminal group..that way, you will be feeding the signal to the woofer, and the cap would feed the signal, minus lows, to the tweeter...but you didn't ask me

Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 10-08-2006).]

Fetish,
Did I answer your spkr questions sufficiently? My wife knows I'm a spkr nut, my home system is a 6.1 surround sound with Yamaha professional
rackmount amps, you said you play in a band, you probably use something similar. I've got JBL and NHT sprs and about 2000 Watts (real RMS watts) I've got one subwoofer now and have a 400 watt per channel Carver amp I'm going to use to drive the existing and one additional sub, I've got the extra subwoofer driver but have to get an enclosure for it. I like cranking up the volume for the MGM lion when the cats aren't paying attention, they really react, I think they know exactly what it is.

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: If you only have two wires, Patrick, I would connect the positive to the left terminal group, and the negs to the right terminal group..that way, you will be feeding the signal to the woofer, and the cap would feed the signal, minus lows, to the tweeter...but you didn't ask me

Nick, I didn't ask you because you're not the one with an A.S. in Communication Electronics, FCC Commercial and Amateur Licenses. However, your opinion on this is valued, especially as coincides with how I eventually decided the speakers should be connected. I'm just waiting for confirmation from 88 Formula now.

[EDIT] We're cross-posting again... 88 Formula, shall I just leave the red terminal unattached then? I'm still confused as to why it's there in the first place if connecting the positive speaker wire to the left terminal gets a signal to the tweeter anyway.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-08-2006).]

The red terminal (probably the tweeter hot) is used on bi amped systems. You would have separate amps and wiring for your woofer and tweeter, the extra terminal gives a hookup point for the tweeter that is not combined with the woofer. In a normal system, it's not used.

!!! Sounds magnificent..to me here, and no doubt to you there in reality! I guess I am a bit clearer now..does the travel of the voice coil equate, in or out,whichever way it is wired, is what I was getting at..in other words, if wired conventionally, does the coil move outward more than inward?
Nick

Geez, figures they'd put a indicator mark (red colour) on the terminal that doesn't (normally) get used.

88 Formula, thanks for all your help!

Nick, thanks to you as well.

Naaah!! You are right, Patrick..only went to the university of life experience Hahaha!! 40 years of making my own sound systems, blindly following instinct and logic!! And if I were in your shoes, Patrick, I would have made the same choice as to who to listen to, as well!!!
What I was surmising was that you only have one set of wires coming from your amp, which are specifically for the woofer..but with the way the wiring/ cap is arranged, the cap will supply high-end signals to the tweeter,from the same single signal supply,which would enable the tweeter to supply a treble sound unaffected by bass..if you connect to a pure woofer, the speaker is unable to provide a treble sound independently, and is overwhelmed by the bass travel in the cone..that is how I see the setup you have working
Nick.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Nick, I didn't ask you because you're not the one with an A.S. in Communication Electronics, FCC Commercial and Amateur Licenses. However, your opinion on this is valued, especially as coincides with how I eventually decided the speakers should be connected. I'm just waiting for confirmation from 88 Formula now. [EDIT] We're cross-posting again... 88 Formula, shall I just leave the red terminal unattached then? I'm still confused as to why it's there in the first place if connecting the positive speaker wire to the left terminal gets a signal to the tweeter anyway.

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 10-08-2006).]

Review I found on your spkrs


Big Surprise
Sep 10 '04

Author's Product Rating


Sound Quality:
Ease of Use:
Durability:

Pros
good highs, good bass, good deal

Cons
unrecognized brand, not really a "real" component set

The Bottom Line
So far as I've had it its been an incredible pair of speakers. The best deal I've seen so far. But always shop around


Full Review
Well, I had been looking to put a new set of front speakers in my car for quite a while when I stumbled upon these. I had originally been thinking about getting alpine type S speakers or either some pioneer 6.5"s. I had done alot of research on both of them on the net as well as having heard them in different stores and asking professionals opinions. Then one day an advertisement came in the news paper for this blowout store we have in my town. It had tons of car audio equipment and most of it was this weird MA Audio brand. I had never heard of them before but the picture of the speakers looked nice, so I looked them up on the net. The MA Audio website looked nice and professional which seemed like a good sign, but I couldn't find any actual information on the speakers. I decided to go in and look at them. Since they were only $50 canadian ( about $30 US) I decided to try them out. I was pretty impressed with them right out of the box. They looked and felt like speakers that would cost much, much more.

They have a silkdome tweeter which is a feature usually put on only highend audio equipment, and the woofer has a rubber surround for more durability and deeper bass.

I went home and hooked them up to my pioneer headunit. At this point they weren't actually installed in the doors yet because my doors aren't made for a 6.5" speaker. I just wanted to see if they worked before I went to all the trouble of installing them in my doors. Anyways, the speaker worked and even sounded pretty good just laying on the floor of the car.Finally though, when i was able to get them in my doors I was SOOOOO shocked at how good they were. Once in the doors there was such a huge difference in sound. When I have the bass turned up it sounds like a small sub. They rattle my mirrors alot! when on the outside of the car with the doors shut it was making the actual doors rattle. I compared them to a friends 6.5" JVC's and even though they spent twice as much mine sounded at least twice as good. they are rated at 100 watts rms and 200 watss max, and I only have 22 watts rms going to them. Most people I've talked to recommended putting an amp to them because suposedly they can take it. Even as it is they sound awesome. I had gone around and looked at the rockford punch series, and unless they just aren't made to sound good on those testing panels, I'd feel safe saying mine outperformed them. Especially for the price. I forgot to mention that I have recently seen the MA65RT's online for $130 US. All in all I am VERY impressed. I honeslty had thought they would be a waste of money or that they would blow the next day or something. they seem to be holding up very well under the abuse I give them. I am very satisfied with MA even though they might not be very well recognized.

If you can pick these up for less than Alpine type S speakers. GET THESE no questions asked. One thing I also forgot to mention was the mounting depth. These are deep. 2.75" deep. Make sure your windows will roll down. Other than that buy them and have fun

Recommended:
Yes

Amount Paid (US$): 30

quote Originally posted by 88 Formula: Review I found on your spkrs...

Thanks 88 Formula, that's very interesting. I've mounted mine in the rear shelf of a 1994 Hyndai Elantra. Will the trunk itself act as a proper enclosure for these speakers? In other words, will I get good bass from these speakers with no other enclosure(s) other than the trunk itself?

When I have some daylight tomorrow, I'll connect them to the Alpine CDA-9851 radio/CD unit which has been sitting here unused for the last year as well.

I'll report back tomorrow after I fire her up.

Great!! Now I am totally clear on that!! Been bothering me for years, but never got around to asking a pro..thanks a lot 88, and to you too, Patrick, for not denouncing my blatant hijack
Nick
Edit: Nick whispers yes, depending on how full or empty the trunk is
G'night !!

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fierofetish.PFF'S self-confessed Snowbird!!

Growing old is harder than growing up.
Responsibility: the solution for our World's Dilemmas..
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[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 10-08-2006).]

Guys, I'm going to bed now, I've got to run my excavator tomorrow morning and eye-hand coordination suffers when you are too tired, don't want to smack my brother or 79 yr old father (still going strong) with the bucket by accident. After that, I've got to find time to get some sleep before I go out to work my regular job (midnight shifts start this week)

quote Originally posted by 88 Formula: A quick check of the specs on your spkrs indicates it's marketed as a type of separate spkr, hence the separate hookup for the tweeter, the RT stands for removable tweeter. I guess if there's contacts on the tweeter after removal you could install it it another location...

Geez, I don't know about that. It didn't look to me like anything was removable at all. Anyway, I won't be trying.

Patrick,
Trunks make great bass enclosures, imagine a spkr cabinet with that much volume. Only downside is if you need unusual amount of separation between channels. Since one woofer can influence the other, but in the real world it RARELY matters.

quote Originally posted by 88 Formula: Trunks make great bass enclosures, imagine a spkr cabinet with that much volume.

I thought that perhaps there might be too much volume (referring to the trunk size), as these speakers seem relatively small at 6.5 inches.

Okay, I hope I'm going to be as pleased as the guy who wrote that review.

Well, I connected them up... and they work, but...

Compared to the sound of the front mounted door speakers, I don't appear to be getting any sound from the tweeter part of these rear speakers. As we discussed yesterday, I connected the positive speaker wire to the left terminal and the negative to the right. The center red terminal is not connected. Should it also be connected to the positive speaker wire then? (I don't understand how the filter/crossover is supposed to work which is connected to both the red and left terminals.)



Geez, if the damn MA Audio website could only post a few simple instructions for the installation of their own speakers.

[EDIT] I'm beginning to suspect that the right terminal should be connected to negative and the red terminal (which is probably the tweeter) should be connected to positive. That should work IF the signal goes through the crossover device (minus the high frequencies) to the woofer. Make any sense?

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-09-2006).]

Patrick,
Haven't been avoiding you, just started midnight shifts this week. Cheap and dirty way is just put spkr wires with audio on them in different combinations on the terminals to see which ones work the woofer and tweeter, you really can't hurt the spkr (as long as power levels are reasonable), just don't leave the wires hooked up long if you get no output, you might be feeding into a short.

Lacking any info on the terminal layout I would hazard a guess that if you can only get woofer output with one combination (the one you found already) and only tweeter output with another combo, the spkrs probably require a jumper between the + woofer and + tweeter to make them baoth work at once.

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88 Formula, Stock T-Tops, 4spd/auto, 3.2 V6, balanced, 9.5 comp ratio, roller chain, roller tip rockers, H260 cam, Darrell Morse throttle body, 19lb injectors, Trueleo intake, Spintech muffler, K&N ,

quote Originally posted by 88 Formula: ...if you can only get woofer output with one combination (the one you found already) and only tweeter output with another combo, the spkrs probably require a jumper between the + woofer and + tweeter to make them both work at once.

88 Formula, I'm just curious which way the signal is supposed to go through the crossover device which connects the left and red terminals. If we can assume for a moment that the red terminal feeds the tweeter whereas the left terminal feeds the woofer, then depending on what the crossover does, it should be easy to figure out which terminal to connect to the positive speaker wire. If the crossover were to filter out the low frequencies, then the way it's connected now should've worked. However, if the crossover actually filters out the high frequencies, then possibly I should be connecting the positive speaker wire to the red terminal. I don't see the need for a jumper, because if a jumper was necessary, why would the crossover device be connecting the left and red terminals in the first place? Does any of this make sense?

I can only hope I was mistaken (maybe not making proper contact) when I posted the following yesterday, because if I was indeed correct, then I'm running out of options.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I only get sound if I connect one speaker wire to the left terminals and one speaker wire to the right terminals. If I put either speaker wire on the center red terminal, nothing happens.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-10-2006).]