Lol, that link to alex jones. "Well you need to tell us [your name], its a free country" hahaha, he doesn't have to because its a free county. That guy is a looney.
Planes are made of aluminum a soft metal with a low melting point. The knetic energy would have been used up busting through the wall. The plane ended up as a molten puddle inside the building.
Exactly. Aluminum can melt even from a house fire.
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04:23 PM
5.0Vert Member
Posts: 287 From: Hurst, Tx, USA Registered: Mar 2005
but then again why did the towers collapse from a tiny plane?
Tiny?
Ever ask yourself why they call a 767 a "widebody"
Also, ever hear of the phrase "speed kills"? Why is it that the US Army went from .45 caliber ammunition to .22? Because a smaller projectile going faster will do just as much, if not more damage, than a bigger one.
Now add the two together. 280,000 pounds going nearly 500 miles per hour!
Want to know how much energy is released? Let me put it this way, the B-25 that his the Empire State building in 1945 weighed about 33,000 lbs and was doing about 150 mph. Flight 11 weighed about 280,000 lbs and was doing 470 miles per hour. The amount of kenetic energy released by Flight 11 was...drum roll please...200 times greater!
The designers of the Titanic claimed that the eye witness reports of the ship breaking in half were wild flights of fantasy since the ship COULD NOT have split in half. Well? It did.
I see where your coming from. But did you watch the videos? If you dont wanna watch it all, just watch part 2 (2nd one down)http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/September2006/130906Demolitions.htm
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08:02 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
I see where your coming from. But did you watch the videos? If you dont wanna watch it all, just watch part 2 (2nd one down)http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/September2006/130906Demolitions.htm
Anybody that doesn't understand why the towers fell down is an engineering illiterate. All it takes is for all that jet fuel and building furnishings to heat the steel connections holding one concrete floor. Heat up some steel and see how easily it bends, you can bend a piece of hot angle with one hand that you couldn't flex at all at normal temps.
Now pay attention, as soon as one floor fails, that's all it takes to bring down the whole building. When one floor fails from the steel weakening it falls into the floor under it, which is also close to the fire and already subject to weakening. The second floor will fail from all that weight slamming into it. Now you have twice the design weight hitting the third floor, three times the design weight hitting the fourth floor and so on.
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08:21 PM
Mattster2k6 Member
Posts: 63 From: Port Orchard,WA Registered: May 2006
If no plane hit the Pentagon what happened to the people on the manifest of the plane that hit the Pentagon?
What realy makes me ill about these idots that say it didn't happen the way 99% of the world ssay it did is that none of them knew people who died. I lost friends and co-workers in the Pentagon and family in NYC. I went to 4 funerals all closed casket but one because of the incinerated bodies were beyond stoachable. The fourth one had no casket, had no body, It was disintigrated in tower 1. Why can't people give it a rest? Its very insulting and degrading to those that died and those that lost loved ones. Every single point that some knobhead comes up with is almost instantly debunked. There is no conspieracy. Alot of people died and osama bin laden's al-queda killed them. When is this BS gonna end?
I dont want to upset anyone so maybe i should stop. Plus this argument isnt good for the community.
Don't worry about pissing me off.
Let me ask you this. Why do you keep pushing the points? Is it for the fun of the arguement? ( that I understand and can respect but take it to a diffrent subject) Is it because you believe it or want to believe it? (that I can't respect because it shows ignorance in its most basic form) Every nut job and thier conspieracies about 9-11 have been disproven time and time again. You don't even need experts to explain away the stuff. Just take the knuckle heads ( I mean that in a good way )here. Please. ( badump dump tisssshh) Seriosly if the guys on here can debunk most of the crack pot theories youd have to be hard pressed to continue beleiving in them.
What was that hot molten stuff in the windo? Could it have been plastic? What is there in the windo of an office building? Would that be a good place to put thermite? The white smoke at the base could have been from any thing. It could have been steam or electrical fire smoke.
The shaped carge bit is bull. The colums they show as being blown by shaped charges were cut with torches. How many levels up is that picture taken from? Do you have any idea how tall that pile was? If they had blown the builging why did it start falling at the top? Why crash the plane at all? Why kill thousands? How many days did that pile burn? How much weight came crashing down? There were no disernable office decor found. Why? did they remove it all before hand? Why did they find the engines on roof tops blocks away? Have you ever seen the towers up close? Do you have any Idea how big they are? How much does a floor weigh? how about 20 of them? Why do you want to believe this? Why can't you accept what realy happened? Do you think muslims are to stupid to carry this out? When UBL said that it was the work of al-queda and showed the "martyr" tapes of the highjackers wasn't that enuff? Do you know how much thermite and shaped charges it would have taken to collapse that building? How did they plant it all and its detonaters undetected? How long would it have taken a profesional demo team with an empty building? Why not learn about hoe the towers were built and watch the discovery or history channel specials?Why go for BS theories when the facts are out there?
What was that hot molten stuff in the windo Could it have been plastic? Totally possible What is there in the windo of an office building? Thats what i was wondering Would that be a good place to put thermite? I dont think so, then again im not a demolition expert The white smoke at the base could have been from any thing. It could have been steam or electrical fire smoke. Possible The shaped carge bit is bull. The colums they show as being blown by shaped charges were cut with torches. Thaats a valid point. Then again, isnt the explosives valid to? How many levels up is that picture taken from? no idea Do you have any idea how tall that pile was? 16 acres of 30 foot tall piles If they had blown the builging why did it start falling at the top? To make it look more natural Why crash the plane at all? To make it appear as a terrorist attack Why kill thousands? Terrrorist attack/ if they carried it out this far, do you think they really care about us? How many days did that pile burn? How much weight came crashing down? 2 million tons of debris There were no disernable office decor found. Why? Explosives did they remove it all before hand? explosives Why did they find the engines on roof tops blocks away? explosives Have you ever seen the towers up close? no Do you have any Idea how big they are? approximately 1 acre How much does a floor weigh? how about 20 of them? Why do you want to believe this? i dont Why can't you accept what realy happened? WHAT DID REALLY HAPPEN? thats what were trying to find out Do you think muslims are to stupid to carry this out? no When UBL said that it was the work of al-queda and showed the "martyr" tapes of the highjackers wasn't that enuff? no Do you know how much thermite and shaped charges it would have taken to collapse that building? thousands i would imagine How did they plant it all and its detonaters undetected? im sure there is a way How long would it have taken a profesional demo team with an empty building? Again, im not a demolition expert Why not learn about hoe the towers were built and watch the discovery or history channel specials? I have Why go for BS theories when the facts are out there? Are you sure its bs? its important to ask questions, its a free country
Ever seen a natural building collapse? All the videos i have seen, it has never collapsed straight down. Especially crumbling! Wouldnt of the CORE been standing? At least some of it!
Again, I dont know which side to believe. I find it interesting.
EDIT: Also watch part 3 Of the demolitions video. I would reccomend watching it all.
[This message has been edited by fierokid1985 (edited 09-19-2006).]
Why can't you accept what realy happened? WHAT DID REALLY HAPPEN? thats what were trying to find out
No your not. Listening to this crap that has been debunked time and time again will not get you to the truth. These bull **** theories are never right. You said your self you don't know the answers. Its because your ignorant on things like building construction and demolition, aircraft design, physics, termaldynamics, chemistry, metalergy and common sence.
I'll tell you what happened by way of knowlege and facts.
Fact: Al-queda tried to blow up the towers before and fail with a truck bomb in the basement. Al-queda try again by flying plane full of passengers and fuel in to the towers. Planes went so fast the dense motors came out the other side and landed on roof tops blocks away. A fire fueled by jet fuel and office decor burned for a good while. That fire weakend suprting beams made of steal. When the steal got soft enough to bend and crumple the 20 floors above the fire came crashing straight down. The steal didn't even need to be glowing red or molten. The entire building fell killing 1000 people then the other one fell kill 1000 people. When they fell they killed 100s of firefighters and cops too. Those buildings now turned to a smoking pile because it was still on fire under the top of the pile that was still about 15 stories above street level. They didn't need termite or shaped charges. Why would the government kill all these people? You should realy realy think about that. Why isn't the video of a man on the plane that crashed into the building enuff for you? Can you even come up with good reasons as to why the gov. would kill 3000 people, cripple the financal capitol of the world, shut down the city of NY, poision the rescue workers, cover NYC in a toxic dust, send the country into a recesion, and destroy the most profitable area in the nation? The whole thing was done by al-queda with no helpfrom the feds. Just like the first attack and the USS Cole and the bombings in Tanzania and all the other times they attacked us. There is nothing interesting about what happened there is no cover up and your continued ignorance and wanting to "get to the trueth" is realy sad. Every time something happens some stupid ******* comes up with some theory that its all the a hoax by the government.
So basically your saying that anything the government says/claims must be true, because they know all.
EDIT: What about building 7? They Pulled it/ took it down with explosives. insurance payments from WTC 7's collapse profited Silverstein Properties to the tune of ~$500 million. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc7.html
The official story is that fire made it fall.
"At 17:20 EDT on 11 September 2001, 7 World Trade Center collapsed. Since it had been evacuated, there were no casualties." "FEMA made preliminary findings that the collapse was due primarily to fires on multiple stories caused by debris from the other two towers, and not to the actual impact damage of 1 WTC and 2 WTC as they collapsed. The report noted that, prior to this collapse, there was no record of the fire-induced collapse of a large fire-protected steel building such as 7 WTC. "
"I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse." -Larry silverstein
Consider the facts: The fires in WTC 7 were not evenly distributed, so a perfect collapse was impossible. Firemen anticipated the building's collapse (even though fire had never brought down a fire-protected steel building prior to 9/11). Silverstein said of the building "the smartest thing to do is pull it." WTC 7's roof crumbled and the building subsequently collapsed perfectly into its footprint at a speed of ~7 floors per second (47 floors collapsed in 6.6 seconds). Molten steel and partially evaporated steel members were found in the debris.
[This message has been edited by fierokid1985 (edited 09-19-2006).]
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12:55 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
The conspiracy theorists are being good americans and investigating the events AND considering the facts and strange occurences.
-not ignoring the squibs coming from the buildings as they collapse.
-"Never before in history has a steel high rise building collapsed simply because of fire. On 9/11, by coincidence, three such buildings collapsed in ten to fifteen seconds, almost freefall speed. In other words, if you dropped a brick from the top of the World Trade Center it would have taken about that time to hit the ground."
-We are told that the twin towers collapsed due to infernos of fire initiated by the plane impacts, yet eyewitness testimony and firefighters broadcasts prove there were no infernos only small pockets of fire in the buildings, so why did the buildings collapse within minutes of the aircraft impacts?
-If the twin towers had remained standing on 9/11 (as they were supposed to) they would have been monuments to the inaction of the US government and military. These monuments would have rapidly become a huge embarrassment to many people, and would have required a costly demolition. Incredibly these two quarter mile high buildings both suffered catastrophic structural failures and collapsed straight into their own footprints. The people who should have been red faced bankrupts as a result of 9/11 are now swimming in money and power thanks to the perfect collapse of the twin towers.
Think about it.
-"If you've seen many of the managed demolitions where they implode a building and they cause it to essentially to fall vertically because they cause all of the vertical columns to fail simultaneously, that's exactly what it looked like and that's what happened" - Matthys Levy, co author Why buildings Fall Down
- when steel gets hot, but not red hot it will CRACK not bend!
- authorities will find Mohammed Atta’s intact passport from the wreckage, a survivor of both the fires and the implosion. That sure was lucky.
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:
Well, the conspiracy theorists are saying anything the government says/claims must be false, because they are evil, corrupt and up to no good.
Dude I hope you pull your head far enough out your ass you get a breath of fresh air and a clue. There is more fact to dispute these idiotic theories then tere are theories. You however want to believe them so go for it be the dumb ass. I tried to reason with you but you don't want to listem.
No, the official story is that gravity made it fall. The fires just caused the damaged supporting steel to weaken enough for the weight of the 30 floors above the impact zone to overcome the compressive strength of the steel. Gravity did the rest.
The conspiracy theorists are being good americans and investigating the events AND considering the facts and strange occurences.
-not ignoring the squibs coming from the buildings as they collapse.
-"Never before in history has a steel high rise building collapsed simply because of fire. On 9/11, by coincidence, three such buildings collapsed in ten to fifteen seconds, almost freefall speed. In other words, if you dropped a brick from the top of the World Trade Center it would have taken about that time to hit the ground."...
Lol. Never before in history had a fully loaded Boeing 767 hit a steel high rise building. From Boeing itself: Maximum Fuel Capacity 23,980 U.S. gal (90,770 l) Maximum Takeoff Weight 395,000 lb (179,170 kg)
Even with a conservative estimate, 350,000 lbs of airplane travelling at 500 miles per hour is a lot of momentum. More than enough to get fuel into vulnerable areas of the buildings.
its useless arguing with someone who doesnt want to reason.
A squib is a small explosive device which has a wide range of uses, such as generating mechanical forces as well as in pyrotechnic use. A squib can range in size from a small cap only millimeters in diameter to ones which can be 15 millimetres in diameter. The squib, being an explosive device, releases a lot of energy, and can be used for shattering, triggering, propelling and cutting a wide range of pyrotechnic and non-pyrotechnic materials.
Originally posted by fierokid1985: - when steel gets hot, but not red hot it will CRACK not bend!
See, this is the problem with most conspiracy theories. They make an assumption, then present it as fact, and then base more assumptions later on that "fact."
Steel will bend even if it's not red hot. If you don't believe it, get a steel bar and a vice and a torch and see if you can bend it before it gets red hot. That's a very simple, small, basic error. Put a few of those together, then extrapolate from them and see how far off in left field you end up.
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07:03 PM
under8ted Member
Posts: 1108 From: Sparta, ON, Canada Registered: Mar 2006
People believe this CRAP? hhhhhhahahahahahhhaha I don't mean to laugh AT you, but damn, real people think that NO plane hit the pentagon? We need a better education system of somthing.. TO teach common sense and not to beleive TABLOID and the most rediculous conspiracy theories.. WOW
Aluminum skin on plane vs. steel gerters hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Most planes don't get flown into buildings at high rates of speed.
All planes break in half like on "LOST' and stay perfectly intact.
I'm going to stay out of this thread from now on. I tried to be nice and inject common sence but your a moron just like every other idiot that believes this crap. How stupid can you be to believe the baseless tripe over proven fact. Maybe when you grow up you'll get some common sence but untill then you should stay away for heavy equipment and fire arms.
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08:00 PM
CoryFiero Member
Posts: 4341 From: Charleston, SC Registered: Oct 2001
like every other idiot that believes this crap. How stupid can you be to believe the baseless tripe over proven fact. Maybe when you grow up you'll get some common sence but untill then you should stay away for heavy equipment and fire arms.
THANK YOU!! I have some faith in the human race...
then where did the plane go?? you know most planes dont just disintegrate? ...
No, I totally didn't know that planes don't just disintegrate. After all, a 350,000 lb aluminum and plastic cylinder striking a reinforced concrete wall at 500 miles per hour is designed to keep its shape.
And the aircraft in the picture that you posted is so like the 9/11 aircraft that you can make a good assumption based on its crash, right? I mean, they're both 150 ton behemoths. They were both flying at 500 miles per hour, right? And they both struck a concrete object, right?
Jet crash After all, this plane kept its shape just like it was designed, and ripped right through that wall.
)here. Please. ( badump dump tisssshh) Seriosly if the guys on here can debunk most of the crack pot theories youd have to be hard pressed to continue beleiving in them.
